babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
What does the ONDP say to people who want public funding for Muslim schools?
March 10, 2009 - 3:43pm
Comments on this topic appear below.
Some suggestions:
(a) We don't trouble ourselves with your petty concerns, because we're busy worrying about jobs and the environment;
(b) Funding your schools would be political suicide for us;
(c) Oh, look over there at the phony-baloney 22 percenters who are underfunding the education system;
(d) Catholics have more votes than you do, so we support funding their schools and not yours;
(e) Catholics are a historically oppressed minority group, and you aren't;
(f) If we funded your schools, we'd have to fund everybody's religious schools (oh, wait...);
(g) It's a dead issue, because John Tory lost the last election;
(h) [Yawn!];
(i) We're already providing funding (and we'd like to provide more) for a public secular school system that welcomes people of all classes, faiths, and races; if that's not good enough for you, then pay for your own frakkin' private schools;
(j) Go away and come back in two years' time when our task force on education funding will be reporting to a convention on recommended changes to the funding of schools (but don't hold your breath);
(k) You're just trying to distract us from the real issues in education;
(l) Name one single child who has been denied an education because of lack of funding for Muslim schools - just one. You can't, can you? So there;
(m) Okay, we'll support funding your religious-based schools; after all, we wouldn't want to force Muslims into amalgamating with the secular public schools system;
(n) Bugger off! We're sick and tired of the politics of division;
(o) Hey, haven't you heard? There's a recession on.
Golly, so many good suggestions! Bearing in mind we're a way's yet from the next election with so many bright shiny objects to distract us, we can try a few to see how they fly.
Forget (b) or (d).. The truth? I mean really!
I might start with (h), then open my eyes to see if they're still there.
Probably end up with a combination of (n) and (a). Failing that, (j) can take us through into the next election cycle. Repeat as necessary.
What Does the ONDP say to people who want public funding fo Muslim Schools?
I can't answer for them, but I would want them to say NO!
No to any expansion of Funding Religious Schools!
The Same Answer that the public gave John Tory in the last Provincial Election. NO!
You don't see any contradiction in supporting the funding of some (actually 93% of) religious schools, while opposing the "expansion" of funding to the other 7%?
If funding for religious schools is a good thing, then why oppose expanding it?
Also, Harper continues to underfund post-secondary research and development, PSE in general, and federal science programs which could have meant something for innovation and productivity in your future secularist Northern Puerto Rico.
I was thinking Catholicphobes everywhere might be somewhat concerned that their future atheist-genuses might be digging ditches seasonally and collecting pogey in winter instead of attending college or university. But they might be consoled that their children wont be pressed-ganged by Carol Pope and the Church into waging new wave jihad in countries like Afghanistan in order to reinstall the USSA's former Islamic gladios turned respectable politicians and US-backed drug dealers. But that's just me thinking out loud again. Keep the faith and drive alive, but most of all, be warily vigilant of Catholics hiding in trees everywhere, waiting to force Jeebus and holy hand grenades down your gullets when you least expect it.
Just wait until your pension funds declare huge losses, and Pee3's are the norm in public Ed, and the bills come rolling in for McGuinty's bottomless nuclear money pit. Youll all want a shrubbery about the same time.
(p) I believe in public education where the Jewish, Muslim and Hindu kids learn and play together (oh wait, that was McGuinty);
(q) You're OBSESSED with this issue, which shows contempt for those who are losing their homes, their jobs and their livelihoods
(r) I only think the NDP talk about issues that unite workers as a class and talking about religious school funding divides working people
(s) let's pin the McGuilty Liberals' broken promise no. 0x33 on the ONDP yeah!
New idea for a Catholicphobe thread:
Let's bust a rhyme from now on when discussing red herring old line party legacy issues. It's more fun.
(r) Show me the word "Muslim" in the Canadian Constitution.
(s) Where were you in 1867 when our education system was being set up?
(t) Some people (not us, mind you) may fear we are funding madrassas in our own back yard.
(u) We secretly want to stop funding the Catholics also.
(v) What are you, a Liberal shill?
(w) Look, our troops are protecting Muslim girls' schools in Afghanistan - get your priorities straight!
(x) If you sign the right papers, you can send your kids to a separate Catholic school - think of it as an interim solution - you're an Abrahamic faith too, aren't you?
(y) Y not?
(z) Keep checking the poll results and focus groups - our principles are subject to change without notice.
(z.a.1) because aboriginal education is overrated, and it's not too late to assimilate this generation of native Canadians to whitey's world ... na-na na!
(z.a.2) And besides, we're not real theophobes. We support the ISI-backed Taliban and public education for girls simultaneously - but not their cousins listed in CIA's database of expendible jihadi assets - because they shizznit dont stizzink
(aa) Michael Prue opened up the "third rail of Ontario politics" and only got 11% - which means that our party clearly supports funding 93% of the parochial schools that are Catholic and that's it.
(bb) Andrea Horwath and Peter Tabuns had more leftwing platforms than Prue and they support funding Catholic schools - therefore funding public and separate schools is the most leftwing position
(cc) The 25% of Ontarians that support the status quo is higher than the percentage of Ontarians that support extending funding to other religious schools
http://www.thestar.com/OpinionPopImageGallery/127057
______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.
(dd) And we like to quote percentages pertaining to status quo, even though the large minority of relentless voters always vote old line party no matter how far down the toilet theyve flushed the economy and enviro. It's like favourite hockey teams and tradition, really. But dont bug us to support a modern electoral system or getting rid of that other abomination of democracy, the red chamber. Cuz things are fine with the quo otherwise
(ee!) Because four million plus Ontarians who didnt show on election day really do support smiting Catholics and acknowledge benefits of Pee3's by their apathy
As I posted:
=========================
Our party had the balls to have,. in the middle of a leadership race, a debate on school funding. After a great heated debate the ONDP convention pssed a resolution that , while it firmly commits to the existing 4 schood system at this time and speaks of other funding issues, establishes a task force to examine all aspects of schhol funding. That resolution had been given first prioirity by our leadership on a block of resolutions to be debated and it guaranteed we had a great democratic debate, with strong criticism of existing policy.
I am proud of my party and its leadership, especially Dennis Young.
Join us . Let's continue the debate within our party,
solidarity
Peter
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Basically we commited to the existing 4 school system at this time opposed any forced amalgamation and established a task force to explore all alternatives. I can'tt imagine such a debate not including the option of funding more than one denomination (See UN) .I am sure "Hamas Horwath", like "Taliban Jack", is willing to talk to Muslims even if they want tp make a publlc case that if Catholic schools are funded, what about us? And there are Jews and Christians and Aboriginals and French and rural and urban and a whole bunch of people, who might want to speak on the issue of school funding.
Would you see the debate just should we cut funding to Catholic Schools- Yes or No?
Of course he doesn't. But he's also concerned that if the ONDP called for one school system, they'd do about as well as the Lib Dems in the last UK election.
Fidel:
a) Stay on topic. The topic of this thread is religious school funding. If you can't stay on topic, then stay out of this thread, please.
b) Stop the namecalling.
Thanks!
Aye-aye!! It's all my fault. Please, everyone, feel free to dump on me for these idiotic Catholicphobe threads in what is a time of unprecedented attack on social democracy by Pinocchio and his 22 percenters in Puerto Toronto
And fyi, LeighT's dubious historical lesson was wrong in that now closed thread where you warned me for calling him a troll. I did PM you after but no reply. I was going to let that slide until this latest castigation. And so,
1) the Soviets did NOT murder 2 million Ukrainians and Jews in that country from 1941 to 1944.
2) I wont be apologizing to that poster soon. Ban me if you want, but I refuse to be browbeat by either moderators having a bad day or trolls giving bad history lessons
But we do have something to talk about here.
There are real people out there who think the government should fund all religious-based schools, as John Tory proposed. What does the NDP have to say to them?
If you don't think it's a topic worth discussing, then I guess we'll put you down for answer (d).
I believe the government of Ontario should either fund all types of schools or only fund a single public system.
I do not believe it is fair that only the Catholic system gets funded.
______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.
Webgear, that's not unlike the kind of argument a supporter of funding for Muslim schools might make. (I'm not criticizing it, BTW).
The challenge to the NDP is: How do you respond to it?
If I was part of the NDP leadership and high council, personally, I would stick to my beliefs and ethics.
It may cost me and the party public support however if you beginning selling your soul for a few more votes, where does it stop?
( I only posted because I pay property tax in Ontario.)
______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.
Which gives us a perfectly valid addition to the debate.
There is no such challenge though. The large majority of Ontarians couldnt care less about separate school funding.
If they did, then the four million plus eligible voters who didnt vote would have. Apparently they were immersed in all that MMP literature that was never delivered, or delivered far too late, and they missed the polls.
Next thread should be entitled:
What would Team Pinocchio say when asked if their 22 percent dictatorship in Toronto would ever dream of introducing "AFP"ee's to public, public-private, private, aboriginal, Catholic, and all school funding in Ontario, faith based and not, and without any legislative debate or so much as a single public consultation on the matter?
I bet a This Hour has 22 minutes reporter would swoop in and attempt to chalk his wooden nose thinking it was a pool cue
Huge non sequitur.
There is no evidence whatsoever that significant numbers of non-voters abstained because they don't care about separate school funding. In fact, all three of the incumbent parties were in agreement on separate school funding. So anybody who cares about separate school funding would have no basis for choosing one party over the others!
Separate school funding was not an issue in the last election - except of course for the Greens, who oppose separate school funding, and attracted more voters than ever before.
So if you are going to speculate about why so many people don't bother voting, apathy over the separate school funding issue is about the least likely explanation. More likely, they were unable to see any real difference between the three incumbent parties.