babble-intro-img
babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

Hey, you lapsed Catholics... UN-BAPTIZE!

martin dufresne
Offline
Joined: Dec 24 2005

A Quebec feminist activist has started the ball rolling in a campaign to get as many people as possible to officially renounce Catholicism, as a pressure tactic and a way to keep the Holy See from claiming inflated numbers of followers, just cuz we were once held screaming over baptismal fonts and doused with water and salt against our will!

I don't know about other provinces; but in Quebec, all you have to do to be taken off the Catholic Church's official rolls is to send in an Apostasy Notice, that can be downloaded from the website of the Mouvement laique du Quebec!

We figure that when these start coming in by the hundreds, these beribonned anti choice dinosaurs will start worrying.

Why not locate the same form from some RC bishop in your own neck of the woods, then pass the word on to your network; family etc.

I guarantee you will be surprised by the reactions of some of the friends you thought progressive...


Comments

martin dufresne
Offline
Joined: Dec 24 2005

Forget papal infailability... The Vatican just  doctored a papal transcript to defuse controversy, after Big Ben casually excommunicated the entire Mexican legislature...

The gaffe that started it all, when Brazilian bishops excommunicated the mother of a child rape/incest victim (but not her rapist) and the entire medical team that helped the 9-yr old abort, a few weeks ago. (Discussed here on Babble.)

Now it seems that some are also trying to back-pedal on that one...

Of course, had those brazen Brazilians simply denied that gas chambers were used for anything but "disinfection", they'd still be the Vatican's darlings, like Bishop Williamson... (Video here or there)


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

I'm considering it.


Michelle
Online
Joined: May 10 2001

Awesome.  Although I wouldn't consider someone to not be progressive if they refuse to do it, as Martin implies in his opening post. 

That said, I've forwarded this thread to friends.  You wouldn't happen to have a link to that form in English, would you, Martin?  I wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to look, being a lapsed Baptist myself (who has not yet formalized my withdrawal either).  :)


Accidental Altruist
Offline
Joined: Dec 1 2005
Can one get un-baptized outside of Quebec?

Caissa
Offline
Joined: Jun 14 2006
There was an interesting story on this on the ATV news on Saturday. Dealt with difference between how the C of E and RC were handling the issue in England.

Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Michelle, here's my quickie English version (no warranty as to infallibility):

 

ACT OF APOSTASY


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

I, the undersigned

First Name : __________________________

Family Name : ________________________________________

Address : ___________________________________________________________________________________

Email : _____________________________

Telephone : ________________________________

Date of Birth ________________________________________

Place of Birth ___________________________________________
(City, Province/State, Country)

Baptised Yes/No : _________
If "yes", in which parish? _______________________________

City, Province/State, Country : ______________________________
Nearest main city : _________________________

Baptised under the name: _______________________________ in the diocese of : ___________________________

Mother's first name : ___________ Mother's birth name : ___________________________

Father's first name : ____________ Father's family name : _________________________

I hereby certify that I no longer wish to be a member of the religion ______________________


Where my name appears in the Baptismal Register, I would like the following notation :
« Renounced baptism by letter dated _________________ . »


Furthermore, please be so kind as to delete my name from the baptismal list of the diocese concerned and to send me a document confirming said deletion.


I hereby sign this Act of Apostasy in the presence of the undersigned witnesses.


Signed ___________ this _______ day of _____________ 20 _____.


Signature : ______________________________________


First witness : _______________________________________

Second witness : _______________________________________

 


Slumberjack
Offline
Joined: Aug 8 2005
Hmmm, I don't know about this.  I'm already an infidel and apostate in a couple of religions.  Awww, what the hell, might as well make it three.

Caissa
Offline
Joined: Jun 14 2006
What might the equivalent of renouncing baptism be for some other religions?

Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Jewish males - don't even go there. Instead, I suggest a public statement along the lines of Bertell Ollman's Letter of Resignation from the Jewish People. It's not really about religion, but it's pretty good anyway:

Quote:

From what I've said so far, it would be easy for some to dismiss me as a self-hating Jew, but that would be a mistake. If anything, I am a self-loving Jew, but the Jew I love in me is the Diaspora Jew, the Jew that was blessed for 2,000 years by having no country to call his/her own. That this was accompanied by many cruel disadvantages is well known, but it had one crowning advantage that towered over all the rest. By being an outsider in every country and belonging to the family of outsiders throughout the world, Jews on the whole suffered less from the small-minded prejudices that disfigure all forms of nationalism. If you couldn't be a full and equal citizen of the country in which you lived, you could be a citizen of the world, or at least begin to think of yourself as such even before the concepts existed that would help to clarify what this meant. I'm not saying that this is how most Diaspora Jews actually thought, but some did—Spinoza, Marx, Freud, and Einstein being among the best known—and the opportunity as well as the inclination for others to do so came from the very rejection they all experienced in the countries in which they lived. Even the widespread treatment of Jews as somehow less than human provoked a universalist response.

 

 


lagatta
Offline
Joined: Apr 17 2002
Do Jewish and Muslim males have to have something sewn on down there? That would be painful! Personally, I couldn't be bothered with apostasy, but I'm glad if others want to do it and have to talk to the priest of the parish they were born in. We are the world's champions for living in sin; I don't know how the Church could be taken seriously thinking we are good Catholics.

martin dufresne
Offline
Joined: Dec 24 2005

Wnderful, Unionist. Thank you so much! I am passing this on to Mouvement laique du Québec.

As for other provinces, I wish I knew. I wasted an hour looking on the Web yesterday. The simplest thing is to phone your local Bishopry - the place where Catholic bishops lurk - and press them to know the exact procedure.

Don't be a slacker - if you have ever been a Catholic, quit thinking you're cool just ignoring it and stand up to the Vatican's oppression - in your name! - of women, lesbians, gays, Muslims, child victims of rapist clergymen, First Nations, etc. Protest the secret deals with fascist heads of State, the negationnists of the Holocaust, etc. etc.

NOT IN OUR NAMES!


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti -

Sed non in nomines nostra!

 

[Can't remember what gender "nomen" is, so I made it neuter...]

 


remind
Offline
Joined: Jun 25 2004
martin dufresne wrote:

Wnderful, Unionist. Thank you so much! I am passing this on to Mouvement laique du Québec.

As for other provinces, I wish I knew. I wasted an hour looking on the Web yesterday. The simplest thing is to phone your local Bishopry - the place where Catholic bishops lurk - and press them to know the exact procedure.

Don't be a slacker - if you have ever been a Catholic, quit thinking you're cool just ignoring it and stand up to the Vatican's oppression - in your name! - of women, lesbians, gays, Muslims, child victims of rapist clergymen, First Nations, etc. Protest the secret deals with fascist heads of State, the negationnists of the Holocaust, etc. etc.

NOT IN OUR NAMES!

I agree Martin! Those catholics, lapsed or not who do nothing, are indeed giving tacit approval to the Vatican's actions.


oldgoat
Offline
Joined: Jul 27 2001

Damn!  I have been lapsed for SO long, but I might just have to take up that challenge.

Qui tacet consentit!

 

 


Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Quit Ace T., Cons en Tit?

In pokerese:

Silence is foldin'.


martin dufresne
Offline
Joined: Dec 24 2005

"Who can give an adequate reason for the recent apostasy of so many?" - part of a sermon found on the Archdiocese of Toronto's website.

Help them answer that, as your own departing contribution to the Church.Tongue out

Don't be the last one to flip the fold - e.g. for Torontonians, contact:

Archdiocese of Toronto
Catholic Pastoral Centre
1155 Yonge Street
Toronto, Ontario
M4T 1W2

General switchboard, call (416) 934-0606 and politely ask "Where do I need to sign to get out of this den of wolves?"Yell

(Tell them Ratzinger Made you Do It - clergymen love heathen humour.)


oldgoat
Offline
Joined: Jul 27 2001

I have to say I'm getting a bit cranked up about this.  "Oldgoat the Apostate"  "I have fallen in to apostasy".

Whoa, how cool is that?

 

 


martin dufresne
Offline
Joined: Dec 24 2005

No more "fainting goats" for you, eh?

Face it, we're all going to hell

(Get your monkey mask!)

Ideas of a T-shirt design or some good lines, anyone? "What WILL Jesus do?"


Joey Ramone
Offline
Joined: Apr 3 2008

I had not heard about this campaign, but as it happens, last Friday I took the long overdue step of renouncing my membership in the RC church. 

Here's the email exchange with the Bishop's office, with the name of my church of baptism left out:

---- Original Message ----
From: Wilma Dunn <wdunn@hamiltondiocese.com>
To: 'JR: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 2:35 pm

Subject: RE: I quit

Dear Mr. JR

We have received your email.  The parish of your baptism will be contacted and a notation will be placed in the Baptismal Register dated March 13, 2009 you have renounced your Catholic faith.Office of the BishopThe Diocese of Hamilton

From: JR
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:57 PM
To: wdunn@hamiltondiocese.com; gbergie@hamiltondiocese.com; webmaster@hamiltondiocese.com; astevens@hamiltondiocese.com; diaconate@hamiltondiocese.com; thartnett@hamiltondiocese.com; dbaltaz@hamiltondiocese.com

Subject: I quit

I would like to address this email to the Bishop, but I have been unable to find an email address for him on the Diocese web site.  Please ensure that the Bishop receives this message.

I was baptized in   1960 at St.  XX  RC church in Hamilton Diocese.  I was later confirmed and served as an alter boy.  My family were life-long, steadfast supporters of the Church in every way.

I now regret that I was ever a Catholic and wish to be removed from the official list or registry of Roman Catholics.  I renounce the RC Church in the strongest possible terms.

For me the last straw was the recent decision of the Church to excommunicate the mother and doctors of a nine year old child in Brazil.  The child was raped and impregnated by her step-father.  She was carrying twins at 15 months gestation when doctors determined that her physical life was in serious jeopardy if her tiny nine year old body carried the twins to term.  Needless to say, the psychological harm to this child would also have been incalculable and likely permanent.

I am appalled that these doctors and the girl's mother were excommunicated.  Absolutely sickening, particularly coming from a Church that has for decades (centuries?) covered up the gross sexual and physical abuse of children by its clergy.  To the best of my knowledge, none of these vile predators was ever excommunicated for their crimes, yet those who show simple human compassion for child who has been horribly victimized are treated as the worst possible criminals. 

As a father of 3 children I cannot begin to tell you how revolted I am by the RC church.  I only wish I could take back the thousands of dollars my family has donated to this disgusting organization over the years.

Please respond to this email to assure me that I am no longer considered a "Catholic".

Sincerely, JR            

Joey Ramone
Offline
Joined: Apr 3 2008
I had not heard about this campaign but coincidently took the long overdue step last Friday of notifying the office of the bishop of the diocese in which I was baptized that I renounce the RC church.  I received a pro forma response from the bishop's secretary saying that the church in which I was baptized would be notified that I had "renounced the Catholic faith."

Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005

Congratulations, Joey! That has to be a difficult step for anyone.

 


Joey Ramone
Offline
Joined: Apr 3 2008
Well thanks Unionist, but for me it wasn't hard at all; more like a formality and an opportunity to let the church know that they'd lost another one.  I had stopped believing that the RC church was anything but a criminal organization long ago.  However, for believing catholics, such as most members of my family, it would be extremely painful to remove themselves from the mother church.

Michelle
Online
Joined: May 10 2001

Also, it should probably be mentioned that there ARE people who are into liberation theology and trying to bring about progressive change from within.  So those who choose not to take this action are not necessarily giving "tacit approval" to the Vatican's actions, or being "slackers". 

It's a great protest action, don't get me wrong, and more power to you!  I hope they get hundreds, thousands, of resignations.  I just wouldn't assume that someone who doesn't take this action is coming from a bad place.


martin dufresne
Offline
Joined: Dec 24 2005

Oh I totally agree. My mother, for one, is - at 89 - a devout activist raising important issues about Third-World exploitation by Canadian companies in a Caholic church context.

I was referring to lapsed Catholics who don't do at all this kind of work and poo-pooh the usefulness of a move like this, as if it didn't challenge the Catholic hierarchy statu quo of misogynist gay-bashing, Islamophobe pronouncements.

I simply wish they would put a simple signature where their mouth is when I see that the Roman Catholic Church is exploiting their silence to claim their support.

In such cases, I think it is appropriate to press and even pass judgment - cf. Hannah Arendt ("The banality of evil") on people's new diffidence at doing that in a neo-liberal society.

But just getting a discussion going is already a great step forward.


Joey Ramone
Offline
Joined: Apr 3 2008

Here's the email exchange I had on Friday with the bishop's office when I un-baptized:

---- Original Message ----


From: Wilma Dunn <wdunn@hamiltondiocese.com>
To: 'JR: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 2:35 pmS

Subject: RE: I quit

Dear Mr. JR 

We have received your email.  The parish of your baptism will be contacted and a notation will be placed in the Baptismal Register dated March 13, 2009 you have renounced your Catholic faith. Office of the BishopThe Diocese of Hamilton

From: JR
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:57 PM
To: wdunn@hamiltondiocese.com; gbergie@hamiltondiocese.com; webmaster@hamiltondiocese.com; astevens@hamiltondiocese.com; diaconate@hamiltondiocese.com; thartnett@hamiltondiocese.com; dbaltaz@hamiltondiocese.com
Subject: I quit

I would like to address this email to the Bishop, but I have been unable to find an email address for him on the Diocese web site.  Please ensure that the Bishop receives this message.

I was baptized in   1960 at St.  XX  RC church in Hamilton Diocese.  I was later confirmed and served as an alter boy.  My family were life-long, steadfast supporters of the Church in every way.

I now regret that I was ever a Catholic and wish to be removed from the official list or registry of Roman Catholics.  I renounce the RC Church in the strongest possible terms.

For me the last straw was the recent decision of the Church to excommunicate the mother and doctors of a nine year old child in Brazil.  The child was raped and impregnated by her step-father.  She was carrying twins at 15 months gestation when doctors determined that her physical life was in serious jeopardy if her tiny nine year old body carried the twins to term.  Needless to say, the psychological harm to this child would also have been incalculable and likely permanent.

I am appalled that these doctors and the girl's mother were excommunicated.  Absolutely sickening, particularly coming from a Church that has for decades (centuries?) covered up the gross sexual and physical abuse of children by its clergy.  To the best of my knowledge, none of these predators was ever excommunicated for their crimes, yet those who show simple human compassion for child who has been horribly victimized are treated as the worst possible criminals. 

Please respond to this email to assure me that I am no longer considered a "Catholic".

Sincerely,

JR          

 

Unionist
Offline
Joined: Dec 11 2005
Bravo. Very moving, Joey.

ETA: You know, martin, after reading Joey's letter, maybe the Mouvement laïque should consider including an optional "Reasons" section in their form. It may be useful for the apostate, the Church, or both.

 


Michelle
Online
Joined: May 10 2001
Yeah, that was excellent, Joey.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

Sven
Offline
Joined: Jul 22 2005

What I think is interesting about the Church's response to Joey's email is that the Church was so ho-hum about it (like a citizen getting a form response from a government agency).  One would think that they would be all concerned for Joey's soul!!

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!


RevolutionPlease
Offline
Joined: Oct 15 2007
Sven wrote:

What I think is interesting about the Church's response to Joey's email is that the Church was so ho-hum about it (like a citizen getting a form response from a government agency).  One would think that they would be all concerned for Joey's soul!!

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

 

You'd think, eh!!!


Joey Ramone
Offline
Joined: Apr 3 2008

Actually, the Church's response didn't surprise me at all. 


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or register to post comments