Asian Teen Fights Back Against Racist Bully: Charged with Assault

This story (or the schoold kids in the town of Keswick who marched in protest) made it to MSNBC "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" as number 1 in the "Best person in the world" segment.

Hopefully he gets off on self-defense.

I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I am hoping that the charges will be dropped immediately, perhaps angry protests from across Canada, to Keswick authorities and the school district would help too?

Keswick High School
100 Biscayne Blvd.
Keswick, Ontario
L4P 3L5

Main Office
905-476-0933

Attendance Office
905-476-7823

http://www.keswick.hs.yrdsb.edu.on.ca/E-mail Us

The municipal district website: http://www.town.georgina.on.ca/ [7]

Fantastic idea, remind. Thanks.

I think this really points to a need for some kind of civilian oversight of the Crown Attourney.  Surely he or she had all these facts in hand before he or she decided to lay charges against one but not the other.

If things are as they have been presented here, I'd have the charges dropped, and give the Crown in the case the option of covering the kids legal bills, or resigning.

No problem maysie, I have sent the school a critical email through their email link at their website, and dropped a note to the municipal district through their contact us link, and here is a link to the regional district that controls the police services.

http://www.region.york.on.ca .

The mayor Robert Gossi has his own email   too to contact him directly.

Telephone: (905) 989-1794
* Messages left at this number may not be answered immediately. For immediate assistance, please contact the Town of Georgina Civic Centre.

Civic Centre:
905/289 Area - (905) 476-4301 / (905) 722-6516
705 Area - (705) 437-2210
Ext. 215
Fax: (905) 476-1475
e-Mail: rgrossi@georgina.ca [11]

Messages may also be left with Tammi Roberts, Executive Assistant to the Mayor and Members of Council, at the Civic Centre, Ext. 213.

[11]

I don't know about that.  I've personally known of at least one case where the complainant talked to the police but omitted one or two crucial pieces of information.  The police presented the incomplete information to the Crown and charges were laid.  Neither the police nor the Crown interviewed the other party. 

Added:  The case was later dropped but the entire exercise was a waste of time and resources, to say nothing of a waste of money (legal fees) for the accused.

The state spares no expense in perpetuating racism.

Here's some more local information.  At least the kids get it.

This is also the same area where Asians have been subjected to plenty of harassment while fishing according the the OHRC.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/615400 [16]

My recollection of HS on this issue was that staff practiced an irrational dichotomy, wherein verbal and psychological abuse was either ignored (or encouraged with smiles) while physical responses were severely reprimanded. That discrimination is most likely grounded in a strict classism.

The old song about sticks and stones is nothing but a lie.

Added: The case was later dropped but the entire exercise was a waste of time and resources, to say nothing of a waste of money (legal fees) for the accused.

Obviously, we suffer from a far too conservative interpretation of the charge of malicious prosecution.

I can't really comment on that because I was the accused.

Anyway, back to this high school kid, I have complete confidence he will prevail. 

It gets worse:

They should consider shutting all the fucking schools down in this part of the country.

Fuckers.

Thanks for the update Unionist. 

You know the saying, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you? Well, it's not cynicism if there really is systemic and institutional racism. 

This young man will not have the charges dropped, and the bully will not have assault charges filed against him by the police. If I'm wrong I will happily retract this statement.

Anyone who doesn't get why it's racist to call an Asian person "fucking Chinese" (and the official count is by two young men, the bully and the bully's cousin) is in dire need of my professional services. With danger pay.

And if we shut down all schools in Ontario based on systemic racism and oppression I don't think the kids would have anywhere to go all day.

Oh, to be a director of the York Region Edgyoucashun system:

"Here's your severance package, now slap your forehead and say  "D 'oh" on your way out the door."

I do not think it gets worse, per se, as obviously, the board of education for York region, has had enormous pressure put on them extrenally, or they would not be talking about the recommendation of explusion being invalid now and that further investigation was going on. Seems to me that they are covering their asses now that Canada is aware. I am betting they did not contact their lawyers before sending off such a letter.

Which makes it even more important for people to contact them, and express outrage, who have not yet done so.

I am betting the charges will be dropped, and that a law suit will ensue against the educational board, if not the priincipal and vice-principal. And correctly so too!

However, I do not think the bully will have charges laid against him. But the family should take him to civil court anyway, if charges against him are not laid.

I think the administration was just on auto-pilot.  It's probably proceedure to do what they did.  Unfortunately, strict adherence to proceedures and zero tollerance policies end up with these kinds of farces from time to time.

As I understand things, in American law a person can raise the deffense of "selective prosecution" in a case like this, and I'm guessing it's on the books due to racism in law enforcement and prosecutors.

Maybe it's an idea that should be looked at for Canada.

I see that G&M article has had its comment section disabled ... I wonder what they were afraid of? Too much support for the boy and his family? Or too much opportunity for the truth about the actual scope of still existing and exercised racism to be exposed?

Actually, I was hasty. I shouldn't have said "shut all the schools". I should have said, zero tolerance for racism among school officials. The principal and vice-principal should be fired, with clear public explanation (as a warning to others - assholes need not apply).

The kids are fine. They have anti-racist sentiments in their bones. In my experience, this generation is the most open-minded yet. It's their "mentors" that should be weeded out.

I wish it was time to time but in my experience the school board always has auto-pilot on. It takes something big, like huge media attention, to get them to even think about changing their minds. Cases like this in which they refuse to look at the particular details and side with policy and procedure don't happen from time to time it happens all the time. Ask a parent who advocates for their child with special needs how the board uses policy and procedure against their child.

It's doubtful that their concern would involve too much support for the boy being on display.  Yes, more likely they'd be worried about being openly seen as providing a voice for the usual mainstream and fringe racist comments that would surely take up much of the space.  Why let the amateurs loose in the comments section when they have plenty of professional staff writers to better disguise it throughout their usual content.

Sadly, my bet is that their fear revolves more around the keyboard race-warriors who infest online comment sections.

I think you're probably right, Coyote.  The comments on that story would be a nightmare to moderate, or "semi-moderate", as they call it on some of the G&M's comment pages.

I think the boy who defended himself behaved perfectly -- he was backed in a corner and he did not strike the first blow.  I will be very surprised if he can't be convicted on this charge.  But he shouldn't have been suspended, either, and this goes to how utterly stupid most anti-bullying policies in schools are.  You see, with "zero tolerance" on violent action, you can't hit back.  If your child has to face down a bully and they hit back in their own defense, they are held equally to blame and are punished as much and sometimes moreso than the bully.  If your child is chronically bullied, you're in a position where you either have to train them to take physical abuse without defending themselves or deal with exactly the same detentions and disciplinary actions as the bully's parents do (or don't, if they opt only to discipline the more manageable child, ie yours) and then explain that while defending him or herself was exactly right, you still get punished because there's "zero tolerance".  Oh, and the bully gets a good laugh out of it and the situation carries on apace.

This meeting, organized by CASSA (Council of Agencies Serving South Asians) is quite timely. 

The boy who fought back has had his suspension rescinded and will be back to school tomorrow.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090504.wkeswick0504...

Self-defence is a bit of a tricky legal  defence in Canada. Here's the relevant bit of the Criminal Code:

34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

Police and crown attorneys usually give less leeway in this to people with martial arts training because it's assumed they have more control over the level of force they apply. Obviously they're planning to claim here that the level of force used was more than necessary. I think that's iffy myself.

Wow, never have I been so happy to be wrong. Thanks for the update Timebandit.

I'm glad the young man is back in school, and isn't missing a month of his education, and I'm also glad that some level of optics had an influence on the decision. 

While I think we all know that racism goes deeper than the individual bully, as if an apology will make up for however long the bully was being racistly harassing, as well as all the systemic concerns, I think this was a "make the problem go away" move. And I'm okay with that. Issues remain about the next time this happens (York Region is a very big place, with lots of immigrant settlement going on), and what if the next person of colour doesn't have white allies, or if they punched first (which is more likely to happen), etc.

The blond guy and I were talking about this last night - as parents who have dealt with (non-racist) bullying, our first thought was "What would have happened if there hadn't been any media scrutiny?"  I think a very different scenario would have unfolded, as it does for the thousands of kids every day who have the gall to hit back, even once.

I agree with you, Maysie, that the apology was a "make the problem go away" gesture, of course it was.  And so was rescinding the suspension and the retraction of the expulsion hearing.  I think racism was the flashpoint for this conflict, but the larger issue is how we regard bullying and how we treat survivors*.

* I started using the term "survivor" instead of victim after a talk with my daughter, who has been a target of bullying.  She told me how much she hates being called a victim because it made her feel hopeless and weak and made people look at her that way.  We came up with survivor as a better word for someone who has experienced a bullying situation - Survivors are strong and they endure to fight another day. 

Further updates. I might be wrong about the charges and will dance a happy dance as I eat my words if the charges are dropped.

Or it means you needed the problem to go away, as you haven't dealt with a racist issue in the era of the internet and twitter. Whatever. Ha!

Full story here

Yes, 400 protesting students, all the negative publicity...they'll let him off with it, this time.  Having received all the feedback and global attention, all it means is that they can't just openly carry on with the usual crap, in this particular instance with everyone looking.

Good for the protestors. Kids these days sure sometimes shame their parents.

Yeah, this spontaneous student reaction was the bright light in this story.

ha, it will give other police departmenbts and school admins pause at least for a while, and I figured this would be the outcome, and next week at this time we will be seeing that the charges have been dropped too.

I am closely watching this story, and  i was very happy to hear such solidarity in a small town. i hope the school admin gets racial sensitivity training just so they can suffer a small amount for what seems like turning a blind eye to bullying. I experienced lots of teachers never getting involved or even laughing in the face of extreme bullying. hopefully a happy outcome.

The other kid's parents are now speaking up.  "Our son is not a racist", they predictably claim.

One headline today says "Our son is stupid, not a racist".  Never a better time to start that "therapy" fund.

Two grade nine students got into a fight and one used some hurtful words ... maybe we should give the kid a break before we start labelling him a racist?

No Yards, if you don't think that calling an Asian person "fucking Chinese" is racist, then you're in the wrong thread.

They don't need sensitivity training, they need my "diversity mallet" (tm)

Yeah, stop talking about whether the kid is a racist or not. All kinds of kids and adults say horrible racist things, just in case anyone here is unduly shocked. It's totally diversionary. The problem here is the principal, the vice-principal, the school board, the cops, the crown, the parents - and the entire social structure that nourishes such division and hatred. Until those problems are dealt with head on (and I would start with the principal, vice-principal, etc. - and I'd start with some dismissals, based on the media reports of what was said), what are we going to do - demand that the other kid be expelled? Charged? I don't think so. The students at this school gave a magnificent example to build upon.

I don't think I said that at all ... I said we should give him a break and not label him a racist.

As far as we know from the information given this was one incident with no record of previous violent or racist incidents ... kids make mistakes ... he may not have even understood the full reality behind what he was saying and was just repeating something that in a moment of anger he felt would be the easiest way to hurt the person he was in conflict with .... the words were of racist origin, but it's not necessarily true that a "racist" spoke them.

Or am I to assume that you believe that this one incident should go in to some CSIS file labelled "hard core racist" so they can monitor him for the rest of his life?

Maysie, No Yards never said what you thought he said. And, as I predicted, this is becoming a diversionary discussion about whether the kid is a racist or not. It's irrelevant.

I agree with Unionist.

Well the thread was going along quite nicely, up to 36 posts before the issue of "is he or isn't he?". It's in the title of the thread after all.

I also want to be clear that I can take someone up on ignoring obvious racism anytime I want. It's a discussion board after all. 

But I shall ignore it from now on. In this thread.

There was supposed to be a decision on Wednesday regarding if the charges were going to be dropped, but there's nothing in the news at this point.

Updates! Who wanted updates? Here's an interesting opinion piece.

Calgary Herald

I see, so you will simply make a cowardly personal attack and and a slimy accusation, and then pretend to take the "high road"!

Nice!

No Yards, I'm trying to not let you derail the thread. You're in the anti-racism forum after all.

What I said wasn't a personal attack. Are you kidding me? Did you forget what a personal attack is? Sheesh.

Your words:

There, consider the thread derailed. It's all about you after all.

Yeah, I don't see where the "personal attack" part comes in either, unless you consider anyone who disagrees with your analysis to be making a personal attack.  Especially when that analysis is that a kid who called another kid "fucking Chinese" wasn't being racist, and making that argument in the anti-racism forum.  I mean, fine, make the argument if you like, but don't go crying about "personal attacks" when you get called on it by people who disagree with you.

No, it's about two kids who got into a fight and whether racism was involved ... yes it is in the anti-racism forum, but that doesn't mean that every accusation of racism made in this thread has to be accepted as actual racism.

And I was just applying the same standard you applied to the kid to your own statements .... you consider the kid, having made one statement, as being a racist (otherwise why would you accuse me of "ignoring racism" if that was not the case,) so your one statement accusing me of "ignoring racism", if I apply the same standard to you can not be considered just some misstated "hurtful words" ... by your own standards you are now labelled a slanderer. By your own standards I have no need to "connect any dots", or look back into your history to see if you have a history of personal attacks and slanderous accusations, you made one, and that's all the evidence that is needed.

And whether that was a personal attack or not, maybe you can explain what it is when you accuse someone of "ignoring racism"? You could just as easily have said "hey, I don't agree that this was just a slip up and some misstated hurtful words, and here is why" ...but no, instead you choose to make an ignorant accusation without any evidence to back up your accusation.

Maybe you should read some of the latest reports on the subject ... the reports that explain that there was no history of bullying or racism

Isn't that making it about you? Poor you, you were just poining out some obvious racism apologizing and they attacked you ... but of course, it's only you who shoul dhave the right make it about you.

You can make the thread about you, and attack someone, but defending myself against your accusation is somehow "making the thread about me"? Jesus Christ you have quite the set of "standards" you live by, don't you? But I shall ignore it from now on. In this thread ... am I playing the game correctly?

Good lord.  What a spectacle.

Actually is was Unionist who insisted that the issue not be addressed, so maybe I should have been clear I was addressing him when I said "it's racism and I'll be crabby about it if I want to". Racist violence bugs me, I'm weird that way.

If we want to talk about systemic and institutional racism, let's. 

I have no problem with someone "disagreeing", I have a problem with being accused of "ignoring racism" ... If I accused you of "manufacturing racism", but gave no evidence to back up that statement, would you consider that a personall attack?

The fucking police chief himself explained that the investigation showed that there was no history of any bullying, let alone racist tension between the two kids ... it is not I that was "ignoring racism", it is people here with some kind of invested interest in finding racism everywhere, even when the evidence shows they are wrong ... opps, I hope that wasn't considered a "personal attack" ... oh, what am I worried about , of course you won't, as it's simply the same "impersonal" kind of accusation that was made about me and was perfectly fine in your eyes.

Hee hee. No Yards funny.

Well, sorry, but you're in the anti-racism forum saying that calling someone "fucking Chinese" isn't racist.  It's Maysie's opinion that your analysis ignores racism because she considers the comment to be clearly racist.

This conversation feels so, like, five years ago.  Really.  Aren't we past this freaking out in defensive fury stage yet in the babble anti-racism forum?

No, I'd rather stick to this topic and discuss how you are able to find this kid a racist, even given that there is no history of racism, and that the kid and his father even tried to have the police drop the charges.

I'm much more interested in discovering how despite the evidence, or lack there of, you are still able to know with such certainty who is and isn't a racist.

You didn't.

I didn't "insist". I suggested. I sounded a note of caution as to where this thread would go. And guess what.

But there's something interesting here. I have stated, a number of times, that the villains here are the principal, the vice-principal, the police (who backed off a little out of fear of the mass student uprising), the crown, the "system". What do you think of that? Or do we have to deal with the racist bully first and foremost?

Care to read the thread a bit more carefully? Care to read the report on what the Cheif of police said, and which I quoted just a post or two ago? The one where he said there was no history of bullying or racism between these kids ... Maybe you should also quote where I said what you claim I said regarding "fucking Chinese" ... you might find you too are making accusations that are unfounded. Fiest you put the words in my mouth, then accuse me of what you think those words mean, and then you get all huffy and ridicule me when I try to defend myself against multi-layered your lies.

You're right .. this is so "five years ago" ... reminds me of the same BS that was going on then as well.

What do you call someone who calls the only Asian kid in school a "fucking Chinese"? 

Oh, and the bully's cousin called the Asian kid the same name the day after the bully was expelled.

P.S. Do we have to talk again about how everyone raised in a racist society has internalized racist ideas, values and behaviours? That it would be impossible to be brought up in a racist society like Canada and not internalize such values? And the the bad thing isn't saying "Person A is racist" or "Person A did a racist thing", but denying that such racism exists in the first place?

Ditto sexism, homophobia, classism, etc.

Did anyone here say this kid is "a racist" or is that you assuming that labelling his behaviour racist is the same thing as labelling the child himself "a racist"?

It doesn't matter whether you have "a history of racism".  If you say something racist, then you have behaved in a racist manner.  You have committed a racist action.  And it's important to call it what it is: racist. 

We are all "racists".  We grow up in a racist society, learn racism to the point where it is ingrained in our psyches.  Some of us fight it, others of us embrace it, and everything in between.  Making overtly racist comments (like calling someone a "fucking Chinese") leans towards the "embracing it" end of the spectrum, and when you see people doing that, it's necessary to call them on it and name it what it is: racism.

I think you've got a chip on your shoulder about Maysie.  You've got this idea of what she is and who she is and how she thinks, and you're reading into her comments stuff that just isn't there.

Thanks ... now maybe the oh so holy mods can start considering that lying about what someone said, then accusing them of something based on that lie, and then ridiculing the person for defending themself against that double "stawman" lie, is not a knock against me, it's a knock against them and their "moderating" tactics.

Ok, so now you're going to change the whole debate and come up with a new argument for me are you?

Instead of making up shit and pretending I said it, why don't you actually quote what I said and comment on that ... I'm not playing your little game of "telling me what argument I made" and then try to defend something that I never said nor believe.

I'll take the chip off my shoulder if you take the chip off of your.

Wow.

As I said before, what a spectacle.  Anyhow, I've got other stuff to do tonight (like writing an article, and then sleeping), so I'll bow out now and leave the floor to you, so that you can expound on what isn't racist.

Have a nice night!

No Yards. I did not lie. I quoted what you said. I've asked you what would you call someone who calls the only Asian kid in school a "fucking Chinese" and you haven't answered me.

I call that behaviour racist, and, as in my definition above, and what Michelle said (we seem to have cross posted) is that all white folks in Canada are racist. I'm sure you don't agree with that, and you will have many supporters here who will chime in to agree with you. Sadly, it's not a vote. Internalized and unexamined racism continues regardless of whether anyone acknowledges it. Shall I ditto sexism, classism, and homophobia again? Racism isn't the only system or lens in which systemic and individual oppression happens.

And I don't take the police's word on most things, why would I trust them when talking about racism? 

I think the problem here is what happened between posts #37 and #38.  Just my opinion, of course, but I think No Yards was deliberately "misunderstood."  I hate conversations like this.

Edited to add (after reading Maysie's latest):  Of course it was a racist comment!!!  That's not up for debate. 

No, you didn't.  You put words in his mouth and then critiqued them.

I would call him a high school student who made a vile, racist comment.

I don't know? Hitler? Grand wizard? A 14 year old kid that can't control their temper and said something really hurtful and stupid?

Yeah, and that proves the other kid, with no history of bullying or racism is now a hard core racist?

And has anyone claimed otherwise? Where did I or anyone make the claim that racism doesn't exist ... I don't think I even claimed that some form of racism didn't exist in this case either ... I just don't think that this case, that this particular boy, given that he has no previous racist history, no history of bullying, and tried to help the other boy when the police became involved, is not likely to be some high level skin head and should be given a break in this case ... but somehow you seem to consider this as me saying that we should "ignore racism" ... I find that highly insulting.

If you thought about it for a second you might realize that

Maysie, I understand and I agree. But I still don't know why you're letting No Yards push this diversion. As for "all white folks in Canada are racist", that's great and it's so true. But can we at least make a little distinction between the principal and vice-principal (on the one hand) and 400 students at Keswick on the other? Would you call the 400 demonstrating students "racist"? Well, maybe in some comfortable discussion about inherent racism. But surely not in the context of this historic moment in Keswick. I think the proper distinction is between those who embody and perpetuate and deny racism; and those who fight against it. It doesn't mean that those who fight against it are "free" of racism. But it's certainly more important (IMO) than this fight about what to call some bully.

And once again you would be completely wrong and putting words in my mouth, and then accusing me of the consequences of those words. I actually agree that "all white folks in Canada are racist" ... all racists have issues with other races, but whites in Canada being the group with the power, and "power" being the necessary component to elevate the "issue" to the level of racism, can be truthfully said to have at least a minimum of racism. So, that said, there are degrees of racism, and I see this kid as not much more racist than your average white Canadian youth, and my comment on "giving him a break" reflects my opinion that the facts as they are known incline me to believe that this boy is not a hopeless case .... he should not be praised, not thrown a parade, but just given a fucking break ... or should we instead brand him a racist and ostracize him for the rest of his life so that he grows up bitter and angry believing that every thing was fine until he had the one incident with a "fucking Chinese", thus turning a kid who made a stupid comment, but seems to have learned his lesson and likely to come out better for it with a lesson learned, into a bitter racist who only wrongly "believes" that some person of some other race ruined his life? Now, that said, this in no way means that I believe there is no such thing as racism ... as I said, the kid is the one who should get the break ... the grownups in this case should be dealt with much more severely as they are the ones who seem to exhibit signs of suffering from the effects of institutionalized racism ... the kid is probably easily saved compared to what the grownups need to be put through.

Sorry, but you definitely did not quote what I said ... you sort of paraphrased what you wanted to think I said, but you most definitely did not quote what I said. Check back yourself if you doubt it.

No Yards said (at #37):

Maysie replied (at #38) with:

Found this in a response to a Jonathan Kay blog post. It's from the reporter who originally broke the story and has been following up (note: nothing of much worth on that site except for the response by the reporter):

Then there's this official accounting [76] of what actually happened:

So now, with a few more facts on the matter, the jumping to conclusions portion of the game can continue.

Well, if a Toronto Sun reporter AND a police officer say there's no racism, then by golly, that's good enough for me!

Michelle, while I still don't like the emphasis on one individual (at the expense of looking at the systemic racism revealed by this case), I think No Yards was focusing on "no history of bullying" rather than "no racism" in his last past.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where anyone claimed "there's no racism". Care to highlight that part?

I'm jumping in here having been asked.  I can't think of any circumstances where calling someone "fucking Chinese", esp when you're hitting them, nor can I think of any after-the -fact analysis wherein that isn't racist.  It can be stupid too, as well as a product of a heated moment, but it is not one iota less racist for all of that.  This is also the anti racism forum where we often try to use these events as learning opportunities.

No Yards, I don't think anyone has personally attacked you.  Personal attacks from Maysie look different. You were merely emphatically disagreed with.

So is this argument "the behaviour/speech is racist but the kid isn't?  I don't think they're that easily seperable from one another, or from the values and assumptions extant in the community where they live.  If I'm getting this at all, some people are trying to make that seperation.

So going back to post #37.  Actually I don't mind giving a kid a break if he can take a good learning experience out of this and grow, but he's gonna have to own and somehow process his racism.

In post # 38, I'm sorry, but I can only endorse the first statement.

I know this has been posted more than once in the AR forum, however in reading through this thread, it is one of the classics that deserves another play.  This guy is awesome.

Jay Smooth

The follow on comments..well they're less than awesome.  Ignore them.

Thanks, SJ. It could have been made for this very thread.

There are just a few more Asians than Euro-centric white people. One of these days, some white person's daughter or grand daughter is going to make nooky with a brown person. And then there goes the neighborhood. It'll all work out in the end.

The statement came from somewhere in his 14 year history, and is internalized as Maysie said.  The views were laid bare in an unguarded moment of crisis.  More than likely, it came from the aggregate influences of his family and friends.  What he said was racist, no doubt.  What he is, or what he will become, depends on his continued development and the subsequent influences that will form his character as an adult.  The odds are not good.

If we were all mixed, this thread wouldn't exist.

This is why I hate having conversations on group phenomena (ie all white people are racist) brought down to the individual level (in this case the two youths involved in the fight).  Sociologists have a term for this - the ecological fallacy.  There are two nice definitions:

The mistake of assuming that where relationships are found among aggregate data, these relationships will also be found among individuals or ...
hds.essex.ac.uk/g2gp/gis/sect101.asp

False conclusions made by assuming relationships found through research with groups can be attributed to individuals.
www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/evaluation/glossary/glossary_e.htm [87]

David Roediger talks about how power "is conferred upon people in exchange for an expectation of loyalty to what they consider an oppressive social order [88]" which is essentially where this thread was going when talking about the people in the system who were involved in the institutional racism.  There is enough information in the articles to be able to see that this played a role.  But we do not have enough information on the individual level to infer what part the teen who said the slur played in the instituationalized racism (nor should we as he is a minor).  Yes, he should take a look at himself and the part that he did play but we can't take what is know about groups with white priviledge and all white people are racist in the meta analysis and infer it onto an individual without more information to confirm or deny to parallels and to what extent this particular teens actions were a result of white priviledge.

Thanks for that laugh Refuge, it came just as the gange effect was starting to wear off.

Not sure I am following you Slumberjack.

[strange repeat post...]

White America will become a minority in the US by mid century. Europe will become Eurabia. And those Asian countries which were once home to the largest economies of the world will become the largest and most influential, once again.

And neither do I, and I defy you to quote where I said that or anything like that ... you are doing exactly what the other two are doing, making up your own version of what I said and condeming me with the words you used, not the words I used.

Disagreed with about what? She disagreed with something I never said, but accused me of saying it all the same.

But that's not the argument at all ... welll, it is, but only so far as you mods are putting that argument in other peoples mouths and continue to refuse to respond when asked to quote the particular statements and explain where they are getting their nonsense from.

So then you too are also "ignoring racism" ... you said almost exactly the same thing I said .... except I pointed at existing information that seems to suggest that he did own his racism ... a narative that seems to be totally ignored, even ridiculed, dispite provided evidence.

So do I, that's why I explained in the following post that I wasn't saying that "fucking Chinese" wasn't racist.

The issue came later in post #43 where she accused me of "ignoring obvious racism".

Many posters were able to understand what I said, and even sided with me saying that I didn't say what she claimed I said ... but I guess because we're dealing with the opinion of a mod here, that there is no need to expect even handed treatment .. hell, Michelle even came along right after I posted some information showing the boy had no history of bullying (the post made no mention of racism except to say that it was still an issue, all it did was present evidence that the bullying accuation was not warranted) and made some ignorant statements implying I was trying to clear the boy of racism. But, I guess that's ok too ... mods don't need to answer to anyone, so no big deal.

Jeez, I can remember a lot worse in the playground at the school I attended in Northern Ontario. I sometimes came home with shirts torn and blood on them, knuckles and lip bleeding. Calling the cops was mentioned but only as a mild threat made by the principal. And the ethnic slurs, my-my!

This is all I am going to say on this thread diversion:

Oh ffs, let's keep on making it about no yard's, personal moderation beefs, as opposed to the topic, and what should be done to the authorities and systemic racism. Good try on trying to halt it unionist btw.

You know no yards, when I have personal beefs with the mods, and believe me I have had plenty, I took/take it to where it is/was appropriate, either rabble reactions, or emails directly to them, I did not try and appeal to other posters to support my positions and shunt aside the topic discussion completely and make it about me. I respect them and their work place, and if I disagree with their ruling, or positions, I say so and move along.

Moreover, I would be seriously pissed if this was happening in the feminist forum.

No Yards, check your PMs.

Everybody else, sorry about contributing to the diversion of this thread.  As said above (I think), it really doesn't matter whether or not the other kid is a racist.  (FWIW, I think he may be or he may not, we have no way of knowing from what's been posted in this thread.  If this was his sole racist comment then I'd tend to think not, for the same reason that one stupid comment doesn't make a person stupid.)

As for the case, I guess my feeling is that either both or neither of these kids should have been charged.  And I don't know how we're going to find out at which stage it got framed this way.  Was it the kids' presentation to the school administration?  Was it the school administration's to the police?  The police's to the Crown?  Whatever way, I think a human rights complaint would get to the bottom of it in a hurry and I sincerely hope the Korean boy's family pursues such an option. 

And this will be my last post on the issue as well ... if you bothered to look you would see that I had tried to do just that ... but as soon as I posted new information on the issue (the links to articles debunking the "bully" part of the issue) I was immediatly attacked by a moderator for supposedly posting information that attempted to clear the boy of racism.

So blame me all you want for making this "about me", but when you can't even post on-issue links and nformation from articles without being attacked (and not even attacked for the information that was posted, but on an issue that had little to do with the article) then I suggest that you're blaiming the wrong person for making it "about me".

Anyway, the mods have made their decision and as long as they have all the power without accountability, then there's not much that I can do about it, so I'll just have to "deal with it" ...no big deal, I really didn't expect a fair hearing on this issue anyway since it involved "one of the choosen".

Rouge(AKA no Yards), is there any particular reason why you're using two accounts?  If there are technical problems with your original account, I'd be happy to try to deal with it.

No, I forgot my noyards password (my password tool is on a different computer) and clicked on the "forgot password" link ... the email address I ented happened to be for the old "rouge" account *that's the one I created the last time I forgot my password, and had changed ISPs and the email address was no longer valid ... I used that account to ask to have my noyards account reset and then forgot all about it.)

I didn't notice that I had reset my password for the "rouge" account until after I made two posts (I explained the situation in the other thread as I didn't want to post in this thread anymore.)

Thanks, but I have it straightened out now ... if you wish you can delete/disable/ban the rouge account.

If you don't mind No Yards, perhaps you might clarify something else as well.  Who is the 'one of the chosen,' and what specifically have they been chosen for?

Charges dropped.  :)  Small victories!

http://www.thestar.com/article/633589

I don't suppose the original intentions of the police, the principal, and the school board 'are' in the public interest, now that it has been shown for what it was really about.  Having been stymied this time around, the system will dust itself off and go about other 'public interest' activities, preferably ones that do not attract as much inconvenient attention.

Goddamn I love it when I'm wrong sometimes! Thanks for sharing this RP. 

Slumberjack, damn you for being right. The language in the statement is pretty clear, as well as the subtext. Classic CYA back-pedalling behaviour. This could have gone either way. "Excessive force" and other racist codewords are used during those moments. There was no growth or learning and certainly no understanding of the larger societal issue of racism in any of the institutions that were involved.

Since I have this fabulous news, and it's the morning when I'm uncharacteristically optimistic, I'm hoping that activist communities can learn from the immediate non-authority-sanctioned protest action that the students of Keswick High School undertook, as well as media mobilization. In fact, the Tamil protests that are ongoing in Toronto for the past few days are also examples of this. Note to lefties: when you have to get a permit and permission to march and demonstrate, you ain't challenging anything.

P.S. I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! I was wrong! Wahoo! 

Hate to play Captain Buzzkill:

"La Barge went even further, criticizing the thoroughness of the initial investigation that resulted in the charges, saying it was "hasty."

This sparked an angry response from York Regional Police Association president John Miskiw, who called La Barge's comments a "slap in the face" to the two officers.

Additionally, Miskiw maintains the officers did the right thing in laying the charges and La Barge was wrong in recommending they be withdrawn."

The Asian teen and his parents better keep their vehicles in safe running order, and I think they should pay strict attention to the speed limits too.

No buzzkill, Tommy, we take our victories, small as they are, when and where we can. Sad but true.  

It's certain that they already do this.

Glad to see the charges were dropped, as I thought they would be, but I have to say, I agree with Tommy's last observation.

Seconded. 

In the past, quite a few left groups have lamented their inability to attract communities of colour to their campaigns. There used to be a lot of lamenting that "their" cultures didn't have as much space for protest, etc. Hopefully those two examples help debunk that... Pretty inspiring anyway.

Say, there's a nifty idea for a blog title...voices of the damned.   But don't worry, it won't be me originating it, as it would lose all meaning as you know.

Closing for length.