Federal Israeli Apartheid Week motion defeated

And that seems a good and classy way of having dealt with it. Yay Libby!

I want to thank Libby Davies and any other MP who opposed the Conservative motion.  It was designed to shut down discussion and debate.

I do hope that both the Israelis and Palestinians can become pro-active in seeking a mutually agreed solution.  I encourage all Canadians to join the discussions in helping seek peaceful solutions.

Thanks again, Ms. Davies.

proof enough that the federal NDP is not that of provincial NDP, I would say.

Well said and well done, Libby.

With your indulgence, Mycroft, I've copied to BnR -- ok?

Once again proud to have voted for Libby Davies, as I have in every election since moving to Vancouver East.

Thanks to Libby Davies and others that share her conviction, this is a huge victory for democracy by any standard.

np

This is good news that not all politicians are afraid to stand up to the Israeli lobby. What does condeming the event actually do?
Nothing really. This whole thing seems like a tactic for the Conservatives to add to their pamphlets the names of those that didn't support the motion to condemn IAW and imply that they are anti-semitic.

The Canada-Israel Committee responds.

The CIC says "a similar motion introduced by the Bloc Quebecois also denouncing the use of the term apartheid to describe Israel." failed. Does anyone know the difference between the Bloc's and Uppals' motions? Did the Bloc support Uppal's motion?

The Bloc motion (remember: these are motions for unanimous consent, so they fail if even one voice is raised to say No):

Actually, I would have voted No as well. I believe it is wrong on principle for people with public power to be "denouncing" the political views of citizens, and I think the importation of the practice of calling for ritual public denunciations is a scandal to democracy.

Mr. Tim Uppal (Edmonton-Sherwood Park, CPC):
 
Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, there have been consultations with all parties, and I hope you would find consent for the following motion: "That this House condemns Israeli Apartheid Week for seeking to delegitimize the State of Israel by equating it with the racist South African apartheid regime, and that this House continues to support a peaceful resolution through a negotiated two-state solution that respects Israel's right to exist".
 
The Speaker:

Does the hon. member for Edmonton-Sherwood Park have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?
 
Some hon. members: Agreed.
 
Some hon. members: No.
 
 
Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Beauharnois-Salaberry, BQ):

 
Mr. Speaker, I also wish to seek the unanimous consent of the House to adopt the following motion:
 
That this House denounce the use of the word apartheid to describe the Israeli policy on Palestinians and the word anti-Semitic to describe any criticism against Israel, and that this House reaffirm its support for Israel's right to live in peace and security within sound, established borders, and reaffirm its support for the right of the Palestinian people to have its own state within sound borders and to live there in peace and security.
 
The Speaker: 
 
Does the hon. member for Beauharnois-Salaberry have the unanimous consent of the House to move this motion?
 
Some hon. members: Agreed.
 
Some hon. members: No.
 
The Speaker: There is no consent.

Oops.  Cross-post.  What's the etiquette here?  Do I edit my post?  Can I delete it? 

(I realize, of course, that I've now added a second unnecessary post to this thread, but I'm thinking for future reference ...)

The Canada Israel Committee is busy busy busy trying to disinform and divide and conquer!  I wonder if they congratulated the Bloc for putting forward a motion in the House to "denounce" the use of the term of anti-semitism in relation to criticism of Israel? (The other part of the motion they are "congratulating" the bloc on in the above link.)

Meanwhile, the CIC's friends at B'nai Brith were busy earlier this week bullying the Bloc Quebecois for calling out the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism for what it is: a pro-Israeli lobby. Here is the media release they issued:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

B’nai Brith Canada disappointed by Bloc decision to pull out of
parliamentary coalition against antisemitism

TORONTO, March 11, 2010 – B’nai Brith Canada has expressed concern at
reports that the Bloc Quebecois (BQ) has walked out of a national coalition
designed to cooperatively examine and address the issue of antisemitism in
Canada. 

“The move by the BQ to pull out of the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to
Combat Antisemitism (CPCCA) has politicized a non-partisan issue of concern
to all Canadians, said Frank Dimant, B’nai Brith Canada’s Executive Vice
President.  “The decision by the BQ to turn its back on the process of an
all-party initiative against antisemitism, before the Coalition has even
begun to reach conclusions or offer recommendations, is counterproductive
to say the least.

“Canadians were optimistic when they witnessed the overwhelming response to
the CPCCA’s important initiative to combat antisemitism in Canada - police
chiefs, academics, victims of antisemitism and the human rights
organizations that assist them - all came together to work cooperatively on
examining antisemitism in all its many manifestations and finding
solutions.  We would ask the Bloc to reconsider this decision.”

-30-

For more information, please contact, Dan Rabkin, Communications Officer:
416-633-6224 X 140 / cell: 416-312-9173

Not to worry, I think.

The more voices we raise here, the better.

Am I ever glad we have democratic voices like Libby's in Parliament.

Someone should try to start a Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Islamophobia and see whether it will be joined by all the parties and MPs who are so enthusiastic about joining the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism. Or better yet - why not propose that the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism be scrapped in favour of a new grouping called the Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism AND Islamophobia!

Yeah, too bad we don't have them in Ontario.

BTW, the BQ has resigned from the HUIC for it's blatant pro-Israel agenda.

Theyre always praising up the NDP in these threads. It's sickening.

Great idea for a Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Islamophobia - unfortunately, Islamophobia is a crucial component of the imperial rampage currently being conducted by our own government in concert with other gangsters and war criminals including Israel. The Coalition to Combat Anti-Semitism should be scrapped and renamed FOIA (Friends of Israeli Apartheid)

I salute the courage of Libby Davies who is unfortunately now a target for CIC  and the rest of the lobby (and though it's not at all clear which MPs voice-voted for or against the two very different motions, the CIC has apparently decided to target the entire NDP in a pressure move for allowing Davies vocal dissent).

Meanwhile:

http://ijvcanada.org/ijv-vji-statements-enonces/communique-de-presse/ijv... [25]

I don't know if this is the right forum, but it's as close as I could find on the topic of Israel Apartheid Week.

Lorrie Goldstein of the Toronto Sun writes about "Jew haters, free speech and the Toronto District School Board.

I won't argue about the TDSB decision to prohibit IAW activities on school board property. I do think there is a difference between the universities/colleges and secondary schools. Adults attend universities and colleges; children (even older ones) attend secondary and elementary schools. The school boards and staff members have the right to act in loco parentis with the students. The schools are resonsibile for the students' well-being whereas at the university and college levels, the students are adults who are responsible for their own well-being. People may not agree with the TDSB decision. Nevertheless, the schools and staff members are legally responsible for the well-being of the students.

If "Jew-hater" events such as IAW should not be allowed on TDSB property, then the board should also be banning Arab and Muslim hater groups such as the Jewish Defense League, B'nai Brith, the Canadian Israel Committee, and the Canadian Jewish Congress.. Perhaps we should be identifying these organizations as hate groups.

Skinny Dipper, I think I (vaguely) understand your argument, but the answer to the TDSB's attempt to ban criticism of Israel isn't, "well, you should ban support for Israel also!" There are many who would like to ban all political education, discussion, and organization in schools - not to protect the "well-being of the students", but to shelter young minds from all thought except that of the ruling classes which pervades the education system, the mainstream media, and what passes for popular culture in some quarters.

Can you give some direct proof that CJC, CIC and B'nai brith are "Arab and Muslim hating" groups. It is one thing to engage in passionate disagreements and quite another to claim that these groups "hate" Arabs and Muslims. Since at least one of these groups act very much as a representative of the community (excluding some like IJV) claiming CJC "hates" all Muslims is way off base I believe.

Hi Unionist,

I think I also vaguely understand your point as well.  There's nothing wrong with being pro-Israeli as these organizations are.  I will state that some high school student may complain to the teacher or principal that these same organizations are anti-Arab and anti-Muslim.  The Jewish and pro-Israeli organizations don't need to state that they hate Arabs or Muslims--just their presence in the schools could affect the learning envionment for some students.  Their pro-Israeli stance could also mean that they hate Arabs and Muslims.  Their message could be implied instead of being explicit against the Arabs.  While the pro-right-wing Israel supporting groups may claim that IAW displays explicit hatred against Jews and Israel, I haven't see any such information in the IAW's website.  I haven't seen anything implicit either.  Then again, my views are subjective just as my views about the Jewish or pro-Israeli groups could also be deemed subjective.

If one were a principal or teacher at a school, would you consider banning T-shirts with JDL, CJC, CIC, or B'nai Brith logos?  These groups could be preaching hatred.   What if you don't?  Arab and Muslim Canadian students may complain by either bringing in their own T-shirts or by disripting the learning environment because they will claim that the pro-Israeli students are first disrupting the learning environment.

Outside the school enviroment the IAW supporters can now state that the pro-Israeli groups are hate groups.  One may agree or disagree.  The point is that they can state this now.  I do believe that in the United States, the JDL is considered a terrorist organization along with KACH.  In Canada, only KACH is considered a terrorist organization.

I'm starting to ramble on.  I don't dispute the decision of the TDSB.  The problem for pro-Israeli groups is that people will start calling their groups pro-hate groups whether or not one agrees.

Hi Jaku,

As I stated to Unionist, it doesn't matter if the Jewish organiztions are hate groups or not.  The opponents of these groups will find a way to state that they are hate groups.  For example, if one supports the taking of land from Arabs to build Jewish settlements on the West Bank, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports Israeli checkpoints thoughout the West Bank in order to inhibit the movement of Palestinians, then one hates Arabs.  If one supports the wall, then one hates Arabs.

If a girl asks some boys to join in a game of soccer and the boys say "No," the boys could state that they don't hate girls.  They are just being pro-boys for the soccer game.

I'll write one more comment before I depart from the computer. (I do need a life away from the keyboard.)

Just because the TDSB has banned IAW and its related activities, it doesn't mean that life becomes impossible.  One does not need to have a group in a high school to get the message through.  Activities can take place off school property.  Here are some options:

Set up a separate organization to work with high school students.  Give it a completely different name.  Give it a positive name.  Have youth organizers.  This won't get you into the high schools, but that does not matter.

Distribute literature and locker magnets off school property.  Hold a few speeches in front of the Pizza Pizza or similar place.  Give out more magnets.

Note: IAW has been banned.  So far, there is no ban yet on "Israel = Apartheid."  If there is a ban, that will be good publicity for you.

One advantage that you will have over pro-Israeli student groups is that your group will likely be multi-ethnic and multi-racial.  There will probably be a diversity of leadership that can reach out to many students.  Based on my high school experience as a student, many Jewish students (especially staunch pro-Israeli students) live in their own little cliques.  They have very few non-Jewish friends.  This will make it harder for them to reach out to their fellow non-Jewish students.  Their only option is to seek support from the school administration through their parents.  Use that to your advantage. "Young people vs. Jewish parents."

IAW may not be acceptable in the high schools.  You might be able to get away with BDS.  It means boycott, divestment, and sanctions.  One does not need to attach BDS with Israel on a T-shirt.  Just talk about BDS off school property.  The students will get the message of BDS like a Nike swoosh. Have T-shirts which state "Bob, Doug, and Sandra."  Be imaginative.  Tell them to imagine living in suburban Toronto and not being allowed to go to the Rogers Centre for a concert because the authorities have set up a wall and checkpoints which inhibit your movement.  A high school student may understand that.

Have fun.

Added comment:

Do remember that if you wish to target high school students, make sure that your message is at a high school level.  Yes, they are intelligent, but they may not have the same kind of worldly experience that an adult may have.  Your messages should be at grade-nine to twelve levels.  Have printed materials and video featuring young people in the West Bank, Gaza, and Israel.  Use Deborah Ellis's Three Wishes as a reference.  Again, have young people involved in the planning.  Have young people talking to young people.

B-Bob

D-Doug

S-Sandra

Oh jaku you surely are not saying that the IJV, does not represent people in the Jewish community are you?

Skinny Dipper, I take it that Unionist is saying that we should not become what we behold. You are in danger of advocating the logic that drives, eg, the CPCCA, and that seems to me a very bad idea -- in fact, a totally unprincipled one.

Point of information: I don't think the U.S. lists the JDL as a terrorist organization, but the FBI have repeatedly described their activities as terrorist, both before and after 9/11.

Now back to the CIC commentary in response to Libby's position,

This little comment stood out:

Really, they dare fabricate and yet feel justified that they are speaking truths and can thus condemn Libby and the NDP, after such a load of BS?

It seems we are supposed to overlook roads that Palestinians are not allowed on, the encroachment of settlers, the wall, the blockade of Gaza, failure to allow equal movement through other bordering country's borders, in order to accept their words?

What the hell is "its minority population"? They are speaking as if Palestinians are not their own population, in their own territory.

Which indeed interestingly lead them to make a huge mistake, as they followed the falsification of the actions above with:

Where they actually apparently unknowingly acknowlege, they are colonial occupiers of another people's land. And indeed have indicated that Israel can honestly be delegitimized as a country. They seriously undercut themselves with that addition. Good for them.

Hi skdadl,

Yes, I am still here.

No matter what the IAW and pro-Palestinian supporters may say, the anti-IAW will still describe IAW and its suporters as Jew-haters and anti-Semitic.  Take the high or low road.  It's up to the IAW supporters.

If your infomation is correct about the JDL, thanks for correcting me.

The FBI did not describe the JDL as terrorists it listed them as terrorists see this thread

Skinny Dipper, I first want to note how appreciative I am of your civil tone.

I understand your point though I would add that a single issue matter that might be interpreted as highly offensive or targeting a specific faith group is far different in my view than labeling an entire organization. CJC for example while strong supporters of Israel are also well known for their human rights and inter-faith/ethnic dialogue work. One, I believe must show great care in not wrongly tarring a group because you disagree with a position it takes, as long as that position is not seen as advcating hatred or contempt.

Moi? Why would I say that? Im sure they represent at least a dozen.

As I recall, public opinion polls indicate that a rather large percentage of American Jews have views on Israel that are far more consistent with those of a group such as IJV than with pro-Zionist groups. If we extrapolate that to Canada I suspect that the CJC represents far fewer Canadian Jews than they, and you, claim. Now that the CJC doesn't even have members (what kind of Congress has no membership?) there's no way to quantify their claims to represent the Jewish community though I suspect B'nai Brith Canada would have some objections to your claims. 

BTW, Hasn't the turnout at the Israel Walk in Toronto dropped by half over the past five years or so?

This has some rather interesting results. For instance, CJC has been quite outspoken about the genocide in Darfur but has been absolutely silent when it comes to Israel's decision to close its doors to Darfuri refugees. I suppose this means that for CJC, a belief in the inerrency of the Israeli government trumps human rights but we already knew that, didn't we? 

I simply do not believe this. While many American Jews are more progressive on Israel related matters they would still be pro-Israel and never support BDS campaigns as do IJV. In Canada the numbers, Im willing to bet are much more different tending to be more conservative. Would like to see your studies you mention that would prove your point.

I'd like to see your "evidence" that only a dozen Jews support IJV:) BTW, you haven't responded to my comment about participation in the annual Israel Walk falling by 50% over the past 5 years, and this despite (or because of) the Gaza War and the increasingly desperate and jingoistic pro-Israel campaign from CJC, BBC, CIC et al.

aka Mycroft continues to engage in trying to divert and confuse. Jacu asked to see proof of his allegations which he then tries to maniputae by demanding that Jacu show proof of his insinuation that there are only a dozen supporters of IJV. And here's the difference; Jacu made no claims of studies and the like. Indeed he wrote (as I read it) in a more sarcastic vein, but that is just me.

I agree that Jews in Canada are not always in sinc with CIC but there is no doubt in my mind that unlike IJV the overwhelming number of both Canadian and American Jews pass the "J-test".

“ According to the paper, “By implicitly shifting the debate from Israeli policy to Israel’s right to exist, BDSers have provided what we could call ‘the J-Street Test.’” The “test,” Troy explains, is a way of drawing the line between honest criticism of Israel and its policies on the one hand, and demonization that seeks Israel’s destruction on the other. J Street, much castigated by many the Jewish community for its ongoing, strident criticism of the Israeli government, “passes the test” as an honest critic of Israel because it condemned the BDS movement, he said. The paper quotes Tal Shechter of J Street U, who wrote, “We should be investing – not divesting – in our campus debate, in our communities and in the people who will bring about change in the region. That’s why J Street U is launching an ‘Invest, Don’t Divest’ campaign today to raise money for two organizations – LendforPeace.org, a Palestinian microfinance organization set up by students like us, and The Center for Jewish-Arab Economic Development, which promotes Jewish-Arab Economic Cooperation in Israel.” “I disagree with J Street, and I’ve written publicly about my disagreements,” says Troy, “But they didn’t get dragged, like some other well-meaning activists, into a prejudiced, obsessive campaign over Israel’s very existence.”

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=170710

IJV does not come close to passing the "J-Test"

I was in my teens when Mandela was released from prison, so maybe someone more involved in the South African anti-apartheid movement at the time could tell me ... did white South Africans - allies or otherwise - determine the legitimacy of the tactics of the struggle?

Attachment to Israel Declining Among Young American Jews

Anyway, neither Jaku nor prophit have addressed the progressive drop in numbers attending the annual Israel Walk.

If I were an Israeli, I would press for the immediate elimination of all laws and practices that provide any favoured status to Jews (starting with the obscene "Law of Return", then the JNF land ownership polices, checkpoints, walls, etc.); for the immediate withdrawal from all occupied territories to pre-1967 borders; for the immediate dismantling of all the illegal settlements therein (that is - all of them); for the immediate dismantling of Israel's nuclear arsenal; for the immediate recognition of the Right of Return of Palestinians to their homes and/or compensation for losses incurred. Whether all this would lead to one state, two states, a federation, or some other solution, would be up to all the people of the region to decide jointly - once their national rights were recognized and restored.

Do I pass the "J-test", Prophit?

Because I'll tell you something. By putting the plight of the Palestinian people in second (or shall we say last) place in all your posts, you have dismally failed the H-test. Let me know if you don't get it.

Hannah Arendt and Albert Einstien fail the "J-Test" too not to mention Yehudi Menuhin.

AKA Mycroft "I'd like to see your "evidence" that only a dozen Jews support IJV:)"

I asked you first for your proof which you noted. I never claimed to have proof, I was being a bit obtuse so maybe two dozen. So waiting for your proof...mine is just guess work.

Do you mean this Albert Einstein who supported the Zionist cause:

 http://www.zionism-israel.com/Albert_Einstein/Albert_Einstein_zionism.htm

More conservative than IJV?  I don't doubt it.  But much more progressive than CIC, Bnai Brith and probably the CJC as well.

Ya probably true.

I mean the Albert Einstein who said:

Does that comment pass the "J-test"? It is interesting, Prophit, that the propaganda page you cite only considers Einstein's views up to 1931 and ignores the quote I give above or his later views. Also missing, for instance, is his calling Menachem Begin a fascist.

Keep in mind that there is still work to do on this issue - a tory MLA has promised to bring in a similar motion in Manitoba.

We'd better vote Tory next election then, because we know how much the Tories heart Muslims in general, or whichever ethnic group in the world Ottawa is called upon to aid in the slaughter of by their bosses in Warshington.

See how disciplined Prophit is, Mycroft? He has his eye only on the diversion and the disruption. He will never comment on an issue of substance - such as whether the positions I presented pass his test or not. There is no value in attempting to debate matters of substance with those who have only diversion as their aim. Jaku, at least, gives views on particular subjects from time to time, whether we find them offensive or not.

Well at least we're in agreement on that.  The difference though is IJV doesn't claim to speak for Canadian Jewry as a whole.  The CJC and Bnai Brith claim that they do.

One of my relatives was a founding member of the first synagogue in Montreal. And his brother Ezekiel was a fur trader. Does that count for anything in the j-test? Where do I pick up my membership card? Will they welcome me in the promised land?

As the CJC promotes uncritical support for Israel including the ghettoization and murder of Palestinians, I would suggest they do advocate hatred and contempt of human beings who happen to be Palestinian as does anyone else who offers such support for Israel. If I am wrong about the CJC, perhaps you could point me to a condemnation by them for the siege of Gaza, the recent massacres and war crimes committed against Gazans, the seizure of West Bank land, the continued colonization by "settlers", the brutality and oppression of Palestinians, or ... oh, hell, show me any public condemanation of Israeli actions against Palestinian civilians. Any at all.

All that this ends up proving is that one can take what Einstein said many ways and build a case. Being dead no one will really ever really know.

You make up things based solely on your own conjecture. Its like  being a magician, confuse, gesticulate...over here...no over there...naaa its under this cup. You made the hateful allegation about CJC. You own it. You prove it.

ETA: And your allegation that CJC promotes "...murder of Palestinans" is as disgusting and hateful a remark as I have ever seen written here on Babble. I sure hope somone at CJC sees it, to me it comes close to libel.

And as you say, what the CJC fears the most is the fact that many Jews are moving "beyond the pale," which explains their increasingly desperate attacks on groups like IJV.  Jews (outside Israel) are overwhelmingly small-"l" liberal in their values and support human rights - and it's increasingly difficult to reconcile being liberal and being a modern-day Zionist.

know what?

That he called  Begin a fascist? Which I am sure is a word he did not take lightly

Or that he quite apparently disagreed with a Jewish state?

LOL.

I ... love a charade ...

In January, 1946, in a reply to the question of whether refugee settlement in Palestine demanded a Jewish state, Einstein told the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry:

As I said, 1954, much has happened since then...who knows how Einstein would feel as a result...he seemed to change his views often...you can conjecture all you want...we will never really know.

And Skdadl, you might think its humerous to suggest that CJC "supports the murder of palestinians", I certainly find no humour in it and I highly doubt that CJC will either. I have notified the mods and hopefully they will do the right thing.

Yeah, skdadl, would you please try for more accuracy? Change that to: "CJC uncritically supports the murderers of Palestinians."

Better, eh Jaku?

Unionist, make all the fun you wish. After all what do you care? This isn't your Board and all you have to lose is the hours and hours you spend here.

You have a point, just look how much the situation of the Palestinians has improved since 1954 and how much Israeli politics has moved to the left since then.

Jaku, I don't see any evidence that Einstein frequently changed his opinion. The Zionist propaganda page cited by Prophit only used quotes before 1931. Einstein becomes increasingly critical from the thirties on, around the time Zionism shifted from promoting Palestine as a Jewish homeland but not necessarily a state to a view that there should explicitly be a state and, as Einstein says, he never supported the idea of a Jewish state and he has never made any statements supporting Israel or the creation of a state. Perhaps what changed wasn't Einstein so much as Zionism? So do Einstein's comments pass the J-test? Would Cotler and Farber consider them anti-semitic because they consistently oppose the idea of a Jewish state?

Einstein, Zionism and Israel: Setting the Record Straight

As I said, Jaku, it seems that what shifted is not Einstein's view, per se, but Zionism. Einstein never supported the concept of a Jewish state (ie political Zionism) and as political Zionism emerged as the dominant force in the Zionist movement and came to fruition with the creation of the state of Israel, Einstein pulled away and his criticisms became more pronounced.

Interesting how Prophit hasn't shown her face here since her erroneous claims about Einstein were refuted. Word to the wise, Prophit, don't trust what you read on hasbara propaganda pages like www.zionism-israel.com [72] . Using a page like that as a source will only result in embarassment along the lines of what you've experienced here.

LOL.

Jaku, I think it's pretty clear from the short quotation I copied that I was laughing at the idea that the CJC would need to be notified of anything that gets said at babble on this particular topic.

That's what I was laughing at; that's what I'm still laughing at; and that is what I will be laughing at tomorrow. Y'know that wonderful old John Prine song? "For you may see me tonight, with an illegal smile / It don't cost very much, but it lasts a long while ..."

Whenever I read posts like #58, I read them in my mind's ear in an overwrought, tearful, melodramatic tone.  It's so much more entertaining that way!

Jaku, make all the fun you wish. After all what do you care? This isn't your World any more - it has left you behind. All you have to lose is the wealth and power and privilege that those whom you champion have amassed. Hey, no wonder you're worried.

Anyway, if you followed the wisdom of our scholars, you would know that when a debate has reached a point where there is no convincing the other side, one declares teku - which some say stands for, Tishbi ye'taretz kushyot ve'abayot.

Mind you, you don't strike me as someone who has studied much Torah or Talmud, which may be why you carry on.

Oh, Gosh! Well, Jaku, my dear, dear, fellow, I will humbly, heartily, cheerfully, or most morosely, which ever is preferred, apologize here, publicly on babble and before all its readers, to the CJC for any slight perceived, or offense taken, just as soon as you demonstrate for me a single condemnation by the CJC of the state of Israel for its ongoing repression, and, yes, murder of Palestinians. I pledge to you the apology is being penned in breathless anticipation.

Yiddish happens to be my father's first language but I understand it not. So unionist would you mind including links or translation when you drop y-bombs?  Sometimes google helps, sometimes not.

I am surely not the only one who is interested, including the moderators who can hardly be expected to moderate what they can't understand.

(My father tells tales about attending Toronto's Harbord Collegiate [78] in the days when most students spoke yiddish and most teachers did not. Yiddish was their secret code. Students would look at the principal and snicker while saying something innocuous in Yiddish, just to make him paranoid.)

I know some pig Latin, and a little avEnglavish.

Paul - it's not Yiddish. "Teku" is Aramaic, and "tishbi... etc." is Hebrew. The reason Google didn't help is because there is no standard method of transliterating Hebrew into English spelling, so I just did it the way I heard it.

Essentially, it means "Elijah (the Tishbite) will resolve all questions and paradoxes" - the prophet Elijah whose reappearance heralds the coming of the Messiah. Here [81] is an explanation of "teku" - the Talmudic notation which often marked a "draw" between two or more camps of scholars on hotly-debated theological or juridical points, wherein they agreed to disagree:

No amount of diversion, Yiddish philosophizing or Aramaic quotations will change the facts.

God will get you for that!

Thanks for the explanation, unionist. Aramaic/Hebrew/Yiddish, now I know there is a difference ... reminds me of the old goldberg/iceberg joke. 

:D :D

Gee and I always thought you were a secularist

Yesterday, Lorrie Goldstein wrote about "Jew haters."  Today, Toronto Star's Rosie DiManno [88] writes a brief introduction on the "repugnantly named" (her words) Israel Apartheid Week. She also writes about some so-called anti-Semitic people of Malmö, Sweden.

I left a comment. However, one piece of my comment was moderated/taken out. Here is my comment with the removed part published in square brackets:

"I won't write about Israel Apartheid Week. However, I would like to know what is legitimate and illegitimate discussion about Israel? Where can one seek approval to get criticism of Israel legitimized? [Iacobucci?]"

I am - that's why God won't get me.

Unionist, I hope you are not a seclusionist or a secultarist.

what facts jaku?

It's on my list.

Praise the Lord! (Does the Lord comment here?)

Nope, I'm not, nor do I ever turn down a free supper, so I'm not a Dinny Skipper either.

Eat your vitamins, U.  Be well.

For the record, exactly which God are you?

GOD

I like it far better when you are unknowable but since your here I have a question.  If getting Jaku is the will of Allah will GOD and Christ agree or will they have to seek serenity under a tree and ask the Buddha. 

Prophit, that is an interesting question coming from such a prominent member of the group which popularised monotheism, but a legitimate question none the less. 

According to the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church I am the supreme being who made all things.  Try living up to that!  Who cares what they say anyway. Am I a motivational force inside you?  Am I the creator of the universe? Maybe I'm a statue in a shrine.  Is there one of me? Am I three in one?  If so, what about Shemp?  Theist to Deist I've got it covered.  Would you like me to be corporeal?  You may have to pay a bit extra for that my naughty friend.

In terms of my hanging around this place, I generally adopt the Abrahamic tradition.  The predictibility just makes it simpler for everyone.  I shall however be what you need and wish me to be, despite the fact that your needs and wishes may be contrary, and despite that your stubborn free will may negate my intercessions on behalf of your best interests.

You know darned well that Allah is merely Arabic for God, that Christ, insofar as you're talking about the trinity, is a human created obfuscation emanating largely from the Council of Nicea, and Buddhism is non-theistic.  Something which I rather like about them I should add.

When I say get Jaku, get him what?  Maybe I mean get him a prezzie.  It'll be a surprise though.

I am quite gnerous in thought when it comes to GOD. I would hope however that you are not the GOD conjured up by some here who have suggested a more malevolent form who takes revenge on posters not liked. That to me would be more in the SATAN range.

Yeah I hate it when people get us confused. 

Then Im sure Jaku will feel much better.

OMNÍPOTENS Dómine, Verbum dei Patris, Christe Jesu, Deus et Dóminus univérsæ creatúræ: qui sanctis Apóstolis tuis dedísti potestátem calcándi super serpéntes et scorpiónes: qui inter cétera mirabílium tuórum præcépta dignátus es dícere: Dæmones effugáte: cujus virtúte motus tamquam fulgur de cælo sátanas cécidit: tuum sanctum nomen cum timóre et tremóre supplíciter déprecor, ut indigníssimo mihi servo tuo, data vénia ómnium delictórum meórum, constantem fidem, et potestátem donáre dignéris, ut hunc crudélem dæmonem, brácchii tui sancti munítus poténtia, fidéliter et secúrus aggrédiar: per te, Jesu Christe, Dómine Deus noster, qui ventúrus es judicáre vivos et mórtuos, et sæculum per ignem!!

Aw nuts!

Well, that's a real disappointment. Us Presbyterians were waiting so patiently for the hellfire-and-brimstone parts. I hate being exorcised.

Considering that SD's comment was in response to the title of Goldstein's article in Toronto Sun, can you give some direct proof that IAW is a "Jew-hating event"? and could that same criteria apply to justify the "arab-hating" label for the opposing side?

Goldstein can't even find any evidence, because there isn't any.  Look at his article from last week. [108]  He even admits that no one said anything anti-semitic at IAW, but they're still Jew-haters, because... um... saying that they don't hate Jews is exactly what a Jew-hater would say!

Incidentally, I think Goldstein eats puppies.  Puppy-eaters don't always make it obvious.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ULlIP5MJMs/SvnP1goLYmI/AAAAAAAACio/bbptsH-Whx...

Nice imagery.  How so very Orwellian.

I'm going to go try to get my son to enlist in the army to go kick some Taliban butt just like we did against the Nazis.

Well OK that's B'nai Brith...I was really thinking the more mainstream (yes yes I know what you think of that word Unionist give it a rest) CJC

Ah yes, well I have been threatened in some wierd ways in the past but someone else's God getting me is rather unique

Now you know how the Palestinians feel.

Unionist you don't know the half of it

Please excuse the pedantry, but "rather unique" is an expression you maybe don't want to use any longer.

"Unique" does not take any qualifiers. It means "only one," so things can't be "very unique" or "sort of unique" or "rather unique." They are unique, or they aren't.

Just trying to be helpful. Tomorrow, we'll do "unanimous." (Borges fans, be prepared.)

I'm sure most of us will unanimously agree, skdadl.

Mind you, I reached a consensus, but so far no one else has.

edit error see below