G20 class-action lawsuit seeks $115M

YES!!!

Lovely. Let's have a huge pay-out and legal process at taxpayer expense while nothing is happening or will happen to hold either the Toronto Police Service or individual officers accountable for misconduct.

I know what you mean, Aristotle, but it is a way of talking to those folks in a language they understand.  If they can get a good ruling and settlement out of it, government lawyers (who are cautious to a fault) will in future constrain any actions by their government clients that could run afoul of the precedents set here.

But do these brutality lawsuits actually bring changes to police pratcices?

I guess we'll see.  They can't hurt, I don't think.  And it seems to be the only option for citizens to hold the authorities accountable.

First it has to be certified as a class action, it doesnt exist as such yet. They have to convince a judge that it should be, which they wont since each individual arrest would be considered different from the next, or at least enough to defeat a class action designation.

This isnt like a propane company exploded affecting everyone different but all from the same exact event.

What I would like to see is a ton of individual detainees and arrestees individually sue the police force, sue individual officers, etc. I have a friend who was arrested: in the process, he was thrown down on the ground, but not really hurt. They threw him in a police van, drove him to 42nd (or 43rd) division, and then released him (and a bunch of other people in the van) without charges. It cost him about $60 (split with some of the other detainees) for a taxi back home downtown. (It was late, he was bruised and soaking wet, and couldn't stomach the TTC.) The officers did not have their badges on and refused to identify themselves.

I urged him to at least talk to a lawyer: you can do so for free if through the Upper Canada Law Society. But you know what? He got preoccupied with other things: his next dissertation chapter, his grading, stuff going on in his personal life, etc. He never followed up, and as the days and weeks passed, his anger faded. I think that's what happens to a lot of people, and maybe that's what the police count on. In the end, unless you were truly beat up bad, it can seem like too much trouble to pursue the matter.

I'm with those that think there is a public value in suing.

A judgement that what was done is wrong is the start. As well there will likely be at least some accountability even if it is imperfect while there will never be any if a lawsuit is not filed.

A ton of individual suits would be better than a class action suit that could be denied, dismissed or settled for a nominal sum with no judgement. With a slew of individual suits there is a greater case of one going the distance with a judgement even if the plaintiff was only awarded a dollar

A ton of individual suits might be better if you ignore the cost, in money, time, and competent lawyers.  As was pointed out above, a ton of individual suits are simply not going to happen.  The choice is between a handful of individual suits and a class action.  Not certifying this will make it pretty clear that the judges are bent too.  I understand that is the operating assumption around here, but Abdelrazik might disagree with you.  So there is hope yet.

What could bring a change to police practices is the municipal elections taking place right now. Work for and elect candidates who will hold the police to account and who will cut police budgets and who will direct police to "serv e and protect" rather than "beat and subject". Stop griping and get out there and either work for a candidate or become a candidate. And those NDPers who voted to commend police in the wake of undeclared martial law, work to replace them as well.

WingNut - Over and Out.

What is important is that a judicial process take place that is empowered to subpoena persons in authority to answer questions. As well, it is important that as much information is brought before the public through whatever means possible so that people are not left with the simpletons versions of the G20 police violence that most people have been exposed to through the mainstream press.

For there to be systemic changes and controls to be put into effect, it is important for the public to be clearly aware of the problem. Furthermore, embarassing the police publically acts as a damper against extreme police behaviour on an individual level, since no officer knows when might be put forward as the sacrificial lamb to appease public opinion.

You mean how the police learned to treat demonstrators respectfully after APEC in 1997?

I am not even talking about demonstrators actually. It was quite clear that the way the police treated demonstrators at the G20 was completely different than they normally do in Toronto, and that treating this way was policy, not something specific to individual police officers, per se.

And yes, in fact if it were not for public embarassment and the occassional dismissal for inappropriate behaviour, you can be sure the police would be far worse on a general level in all situations. Any resistance and opposition has a dampening impact on the behaviour of rotten and abusive police officers who must to a certain extent modify their behaviour for fear of censure.

Furthermore, active vocal resistance to abuse, also supports the police and the people who manage them who are not rotten and abusive, and gives them some ammo to help them deter abuse.

You simply have to look at societies where there are no opportunities to challenge abuse by the police to see how much worse it can, and may get.

As someone potentially covered by both of the class action lawsuits, I certainly have mixed feelings about them. Firstly, while a few thousand dollars three or four years from now would certainly be nice, it certainly won't make up for what I went through (and continue to deal with) personally and even less so the kind of bullshit the police and politicians got away with before, during, and since the G20. But accountability is important in any way it happens, and it certainly won't happen as a result of any of the investigations or reviews that are going on. I had thought about civil suits but personally don't have the resources to go through a lengthy trial. So, in terms of seeking "justice" through the so called justice system, perhaps a class action is the best way. Although, Clayton Ruby doesn't seem to think there's much chance of it getting anwyhere.

One positive thing to come out of this one is that Blair has finally admitted to some degree of wrongdoing... for whatever that's worth. [17]

I agree with Clayton Ruby, but then people have to take what action they can in order to bring attention to what has happened here. It seemed to me that a lot of people were pretty demoralized by the whole experience, and from what I am reading some were even taking pleas to avoid having the issue out in court. Sure, I can see why people might feel that way about their own case, and I certainly would not want to get overly moralistic, but having people out there who are determined to seek avenues of address, is a whole lot better than people just taking it, taking their plea bargain, and going home, and shutting up.

Even demonstrating that the this kind of action is not going to address the issue to the satisfaction of anyone, is useful, at least in demonstrating the inherent corruption displayed at the G20.

An Overview of the Toronto G20 Legal Fallout

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20100903183039979

"If this is the future, who can blame people for resisting..?"

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