Bnai Brith denounces Queers Against Israeli Apartheid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5yJULDm54

Look at this gay pride parade in Nablus! Oh wait. That's Tel Aviv.

I can't wait to see Bnai Brith's float in the pride parade.

Yes. Looking forward to that. Isn't the CJC going to offer one up too? How about a joint float!

Yeah, I anticipate the Hamas and Hezbollah floats. They have such gay-friendly attitudes.

Go to a gay bar in Tel Aviv and see how many Palestinians are there. Go to a gay bar in Gaza and...never mind. There are no gay bars in Gaza.

You ridicule the victims of the Israeli mass murderers for not being as enlightened about homosexuality as their murderers are.

That you don't even grasp the fundamental immorality of what you just said shows how evil Zionism or any form of ethnic chauvinism is. It turns people's hearts to stone.

Supporting the right of gay and lesbian people to live in dignity is now an indication that one's heart is made of stone? Applauding the country that's been msot welcoming to the community of any country in the region (some countries there punish the "crime" of homosexuality by death) is "immoral"?

And since when do Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. not also qualify as "mass murderers"?

So. First off, you have to come up with some kind of proof that Arabs are more homophobic than Israelis, at the core of their beliefs. Now you have to justify repression through marshal law and murder on the basis that Arabs are more likely to be homophobic than Israelis. You have a moral dilema, it seems to me... you don't have any.

Actually the only time I participated in the Gay Pride Day event as a member of the parade was with a Palestinian group. Where is the proof in your pudding? When will the CJC and B'nai Brith be taking up their legendary part in the community as active anti-prejudice campaigners, and put a float in the parade?

I think it's great that Palestinian people can celebrate gay pride. I jsut wish they were able to do it IN Palestine, not Toronto. or Tel Aviv. I'm not a member of either Bnai Brith or the CJC. If they WERE to enter a flaot in the parade, I'd certainly applaud that.

Any parade, or gathering of more than 4 people on a street corner in the occupied territories is an invitation for an Apache helicopter attack. Palestinians and Palestine have nothing to do with this. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Until the B'nai Brith and the CJC actively promote public participation in this parade, under their own flag, their words are nothing more than a convenient instrumentalization of gay rights as a political tool to forward their own agenda.

The mayor goes, as does the police chief. I don't see why Bernie Farber can't.

neither do I. He SHOULD be there.

But i find it odd that there's a group called "queers agaisnt israeli apartheid" as if being queer had anything to do with the issue. Or as if gays and lesbians in Israel weren't infinitely better off than anywhere else in the region. i mean where is "queers against iranian executions of gay teenagers"?

I see so queers should only talk about queer things. Gotcha.

Yes, how dare LGBT people oppose bombings, mass murder and occupation if the state that is doing it allows gay marriage!  LGBT people should all take direction from you on which issues to discuss or act upon. (note the heavy sarcasm)

I'm not sure whether to file this under homophobia or simple support for the oppression of Palestinians.  Little bit of both, really.

Naw its just cogniphobia.

Interesting lineup:

Solidarity with Gaza, Aswat Palestinian Arab Lesbians ,Gay Women, transexuals, bisexuals, queer, intersexual, LQTBQI [16]

This article has everything you need to know about the Bnai Brith's position on human rights in general and LGBT rights in particular.

Israel doesn't allow gay marriage. Neither does the country where Star Spangled lives - but he'd rather ridicule the Gazans, or the ones still alive, for homophobia. Oh, did I mention that Israel doesn't even allow civil marriage between opposite sexes. That's ok too, because they're, like, almost Americans, so we're all in this together.

Wow, quite the article aka. Who knew that the BBC, and presumedly the CJC  too, want all Jews in Canada to move to Israel.

One wonders if there was a dispensationalist Christian totalitarian government in Canada, if Jews would all be expelled, and just how people would be determined to be Jewish? ;)

Meanwhile, BBC does this, when the International Day for LGBTTQ was celebrated last Sunday. And I notice that no other political party acknowledged this other than the NDP.

"Statement by New Democrat Leader Jack Layton on the International Day against Homophobia and Transphobia

Sun 17 May 2009

Today, I stand in solidarity with Canadians across this country, and with citizens around the world, in marking the International Day against Homophobia and Transphobia. I also stand in solidarity with my caucus, member of the New Democrats and with the LGBTTQ community in speaking out against violence, discrimination, and prejudice.

New Democrats are committed to ensuring equality, diversity and understanding among all people. We will continue to work towards the day when the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and transsexual people are recognized around the world and homophobia and transphobia will no longer exist."

***know it is a thread drift but if people can start carrying on about Layton's statements about Victoria Day in a CAW thread, I can certainly carry on about this here.

Or US Members of Congress?

"Committed to ensuring ... diversity?" Hahaha. This must be the same braindead speechwriter who made Jack say we were celebrating "our roots in Europe". Surely a cheap style book would have produced many acceptable verbs, like "celebrating diversity", "respecting diversity", "cherishing diversity", whatever... But "ensuring diversity", from the same pen that just got through Europeanizing everyone, is just plain titillating.

Europe is my favourite continent - why not celebrate the fact that it is part of our planet!

I think the point is that Jacko isn't being the inclusive politically-correct smurf he's supposed to be.

Some of us have roots in Asia.

To be fair to the CJC (I can't believe I'm saying this), they haven't said anything about this...not yet, anyway.

But I agree that this whole line about "gay-friendly Zionism" is just opportunistic.

There's no way that continuing the Occupation and building more settlements, or the overkill retailiatory bombing inflicted on Gaza, can possibly lead to anything positive for Palestinian gays and lesbians.  And I think we can assume that almost no Israeli gays and lesbians would have voted for Likud or Yisroel Beitenyu.

Hmm, I don't think so, if ones looks at the NDP website he pretty much covers statement to everyone.

And what do your Asian roots have to do with Victoria Day? Not trying to be insensitive here, just asking, seeing as how it was the European colonialist activities, that caused other peoples immigrations to Canada to become possible.

If that is the case. Fine. Though I don't remember it. I do remember that there were some activists in the CJC promoting gay rights within that organization, and these may indeed be the ones. Lets be clear on the principle here, the rights of queer people are fundamental rights, and not to be construed as a battleground for winning talking points for one particular cause or another. Participation in the parade should be predicated on the principle that community organizations are showing their soilidarity and their support for Toronto's queer community first and foremost, and that they are proud to be doing so. That is my fundamental opinion.

In the light of their recent associations with the Christian homophobic right and their lack of vocal support for the Canadian queer community, it would seem their recent statement attacking Palestinian and Muslim (and indeed some Jewish) queer people for their political stands against Israeli Apartheid on the basis of the alledged superiority of the attitude of Israeli culture toward LGBT people seems opportunist at best.

Cueball did CJC make the same comments as Bnai Brith? And I was at the Pride Parade last year and saw the CJC float.

I wasn't there. I don't usually go anymore because its turned into such a commercialized corporate thing, but that is my personal view. If you say there was a float there was a float. Good. Nonetheless this thread is not about the CJC, it is about the B'nai Brith. Are you suggesting that because the CJC had a float that covers off for the B'nai Brith? I had know idea that the organizations were wedded like that, even though it is hard to tell them apart.

Meanwhile, the world demands Bnai Brith disappear from the galaxy.

http://www.rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/andrew-brett/2009/05/pro-israel-lobb...

As I stated in the other thread about their trying to get the funding pulled from the event, 2 birds one stone, it keeps their evangelical friends happy by getting rid of the pride parade, and silencing voices in support of Palestine.

From other thread

"This is a bigger issue than that, 2 points are converging into public face of this.

The BB knows that there would not be exclusion occuring on the part of Pride parade organizers. Therefore, attacking the funding effectively would shut down the parade, which is what the Christian fundamentalists that they are now closely associated with want.

2 birds 1 stone.

And one wonders who the real fascists are?"

Yes, that is heavily implied.

It seems some Jerusalemites are not very happy about Pride celebrations in their city. Hmm?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6225444.stm

Not very happy is a understatement!

Fireifghter's Strike Douses Gay Post-march Rally

In somewhat related news...

Lebanon's First Queer Book Now Out

I'm enraged. I can't write any of my own words at this time.

The latest news:

Pride Toronto has banned Queers Against Israeli Apartheid from marching in the parade this year.

Fucking bullshit.

Full story here. Of course the article is in the National Post. [41]

Tim McCaskell's letter to Toronto Pride (it's circulating on the net so I'm reproducing it in its entirety):

SAME SHIT (aka Mycroft, Unionist Cueball) DIFFERENT DAY.

Don't you bigots have anything else to talk about??  Go get some self tanning cream and join the rest of the people who go OUTSIDE everyday.  I can just imagine how big your dimpled asses must be from sitting on your computers 24 hours a day.

Evidently some people are mightily embarassed by the mess Bnai Brith has made and are defensively lashing out. I don't think we need a Rabble Racist. Thanks for coming out though.

Whatever. RabbleRacist is gone.

tick,tock,tick,tock...

I have to thank RabbleRacist for giving me the unique experience of being attacked by anti-Semites and pro-Israel advocates on the very same day (though in different forums).

We appear to have two threads on the same issue. I read Mark Singh's letter, and it seems to confirm (by its silence) the allegation that they have banned QAIA. Whoever made this decision must be condemned. The oppressed and marginalized people either stick together, or they are all lost. Succumbing to the pressure and dollars of the wealthy and powerful is the beginning of the end for any struggle.

Here is the advice Rabbi Bulka's gives to gays in his book "Man, One Woman, One Lifetime": "improve on who you are, through the exercise of free will, and with the help of mental health professionals and spiritual advisors."

Seems that Rabbi Bulka "sat" on this group's Board quite a while ago. I cannot find that he has for years. Either way I hope he no longer has those views. Thankfully the CJC board is balanced by the fact that Dr. Philip Berger, possibly one of Canada's most respected medical social activists and a true hero in the gay and lesbian community for his sensitive and pioneering work on HIV/AIDS also sits on the CJC Board of Directors.

He did more than just sit on a board. He was an outspoken homophobe. Look at this.

And this wasn't some deep dark secret - there were loud protests against Bulka for his anti-gay views in 2006 [89] yet that didn't stop the CJC from electing him co-president one year later. The 2006 article seems to refer to his NARTH involvement as current at the time so I think "quite a while ago" is an exaggeration Jaku.

2007 is years and years ago!  Years and years!  And years!

An eternity I tell ya, an eternity!

If I read the cjc site correctly the Rabbi was not a member of this group while he sat on the cjc board. More importantly Dr. Berger's reputation and his presence on the board says a lot.

Winnifred, please show me where Rabbi Bulka repudiated his homophobic views?

Rabbi Bulka loves Stephen Harper and sees him as a great champion of Canada's values and of human rights. Surely that tells us something about this individual's attitude toward queer rights today, even if he has learned somewhat to watch his mouth:

Yes, Rabbi Bulka, "it" is everywhere.

April 2009

Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? You really expect him to endorse homosexuality?

Double post

No, I only expect him to endorse Harper, and he doesn't disappoint.

Although you'd expect an orthodox rabbi to pay attention to Pirkei Avot, and not just pick and choose: "Ve'im ani l'atzmi, ma ani?" Those five words reflect and foreshadow the best in Jewish tradition - the profound understanding that unless we take up the cause of others, we are nothing.

Anyway, no one is asking this self-righteous bombastic Zionist pseudo-rabbi to "endorse" any kind of sexual love. I'm quite certain he wouldn't "endorse" heterosexuality either, except among consenting adult champions of Israel. If he can't say anything positive about queer rights, he should simply keep his piehole shut. That's what we call "tolerance". He can allow his bigoted opinions to fester, undetected, in his own diseased brain.

I would think an Orthodox rabbi's job would be to explain the Orthodox position on all sorts of issues, not only when he has something "positive" to say.

I'm really not sure what the Rabbi Hillel quote has to do with this issue. How is this indicative or Rabbi Bulka "only being for himself"?

And where do you get off calling him a "pseudo rabbi"? Apparently, he has smicha from a yeshiva in New York as well as a doctorate in theology from University of Ottawa.

There is no "orthodox position" on homosexuality - you think we have a pope or something? Hence, he can take credit for his own homophobia. Or perhaps you could tell us the "orthodox position" on the Jewish state while you're at it? What a feeble understanding of Judaism your comment reflects.

As for Hillel's injunction to stand with and for others, vs. Bulka's hatred for non-heterosexuals (victims of the Nazis, in case he gives a damn), well, SSC, you don't get the connection, but I'll bet you even the Gentiles with a heart and a head will figure it out.

You're smarter than that. No, obviously there's no Jewish equivalent of a pope who can infallibly hand down rulings. But it doesn't mean Judaism doesn't ahve rules or that there's no "orthodox" position on all sorts of things. Do you acknowledge that there's an "orthodox position" on eating pork? Is there an "orthodox position" on lighting a fire on the sabbath?

The "orthodox" position on homosexuality is handed down in the Torah (Sefer Vayikra in this case). It's pretty clear. Which is why throughout thousands of years of Jewish history, I can think of precisely one nominally orthodox rabbi (R' Steven Greenberg) who has ever disputed it. And while I've met R' Greenber and found him very nice and intelligent, I recognize that he's hardly one of the gedolei yisrael and so would not take his views as seriously as those of, say, rav eliashiv or Rav Shteinman, universally acknowledged as giants of Torah.

All of these are also codified in Shulchan Aruch which the orthodox consider binding and which hsn't been disputed among them.

The "orthodox position" on the Jewish state is basically handed down in the gemara for masecta Kesubos (concerning the three oaths) - essentially, that a "Jewish state" created in the land of Israel before moshiach is assur (prohibited). This was the view of virtually all orthodox pre-1948 and is still held by most charedim today.

Now, I'm not orthodox myself. I'm all for gay people getting married if that's what they choose. I'm also all for eating peperoni pizza, sleeping with my wife fewer than 7 days after the cessation of her period, watching movies on friday nights, wearing clothes made of both wool and linen and a lot of other things that would go agains the "orthodox position." I just don't expect an orthodox rabbi to endorse my behaviour.

Re: Hezboallah has never used "suicide" bombers against civilian targets.

Then why is my friend dead after she (a Muslim) was attacked by Hezbollah - and my uncle's house is gone. None had anything to do with anything military. And my friend was a tourist! I could list probably 1,00 plus but if you have not been there, please do not presume to know what you think you do. Personally, mty heart goes out to all the Palestenians people caught in the middle. many not happy with Hamas or Hezbollah - and they have told me this as I work with them so I have been there - I do not know what every single one of them believes, just I do not know what every single jewish person does (Many are definitely more right wing than me, lol) but I DO know that to suggest Hezbollh does not attack civilia targets means either ther individaal suggesting this has not done his/her reaesrch , never been there, knows no one here,. or is being brainwashed. Take your pick. I guess I am just tired of this whole thing. I have lost too many good friends on both sides - they are dead and nothing you or I say will bring them back but we can help the peace process instead of making up info that is simply not true!

and one is either a Rabbi or not. No psuedo Pabbis in the religion. Spare me, lol

Finally, the answer I was looking for!

Since Bubbles Bulka obviously doesn't share the "orthodox" view on the Jewish state, why would you expect him to expound the "orthodox" view on homosexuality!?

Sorry, I trapped you, but you see, I studied Gemara for many years, and that's how the chachamim taught us to argue. I see it now as indispensable preparation for negotiations, arbitration, and babble. And don't quote Shulchan Aruch at me. I still have all four volumes handy, and I'll tell you what sexual positions are permissible.

More pilpul, anyone?

Long thread. :)

Reopening until I find out just what those are.

( although if listing them all would make things difficult for people on dialup, just a link would be great)