Links:
[1] http://rabble.ca/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-ii-discuss-debate-post-news-here
[2] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992618
[3] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992644
[4] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992648
[5] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992653
[6] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992665
[7] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992671
[8] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992673
[9] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992677
[10] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992682
[11] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992696
[12] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992701
[13] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992728
[14] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992730
[15] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992799
[16] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992809
[17] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992811
[18] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992845
[19] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992867
[20] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992886
[21] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992922
[22] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992932
[23] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992959
[24] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992986
[25] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992988
[26] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-992996
[27] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993014
[28] http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1456200
[29] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993015
[30] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993018
[31] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993019
[32] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993020
[33] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993038
[34] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993065
[35] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993070
[36] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993072
[37] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993078
[38] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993096
[39] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993101
[40] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993107
[41] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993143
[42] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993165
[43] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993168
[44] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993221
[45] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993225
[46] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993226
[47] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993227
[48] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993228
[49] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993230
[50] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993234
[51] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993238
[52] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993240
[53] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993242
[54] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993244
[55] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993246
[56] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993248
[57] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993249
[58] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993250
[59] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993280
[60] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993281
[61] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993295
[62] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993302
[63] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993344
[64] http://xfer.ndp.ca/campaign2008/North_ON_Platform_EN.pdf
[65] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993355
[66] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993373
[67] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993386
[68] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993389
[69] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993409
[70] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993429
[71] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993432
[72] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993489
[73] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993494
[74] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993498
[75] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993543
[76] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993578
[77] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993579
[78] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993581
[79] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993592
[80] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993711
[81] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993780
[82] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993792
[83] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993811
[84] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993845
[85] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993850
[86] http://ontariondp.com/node/1528
[87] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993857
[88] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993859
[89] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993861
[90] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993939
[91] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993945
[92] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-993956
[93] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994006
[94] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994022
[95] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994065
[96] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994069
[97] http://www.thespec.com/Opinions/article/523252
[98] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994088
[99] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994090
[100] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994095
[101] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994099
[102] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994139
[103] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994147
[104] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994152
[105] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994154
[106] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994156
[107] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994157
[108] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994179
[109] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994184
[110] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994187
[111] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994191
[112] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994194
[113] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994195
[114] http://rabble.ca/print/babble/central-canada/ondp-leadership-thread-iii-discuss-debate-post-news-here#comment-994203
[115] http://rabble.ca/user
[116] http://rabble.ca/user/register
It's so uninspiring...
Here is Rabble's profile of Andrea Horwath.
On Michael Prue's suggestion of re-examining Separate School funding
"I co-chaired that [last] campaign and I watched that train wreck up close and personal and I don't believe we need to spend our time shooting guns at each other on the convention floor. I'm sure there will be some kind of resolution we'll debate but I believe that we need to look at education from the perspective of where are the common pieces and a common piece is the fact that we're still operating under the Harris funding formula; a common piece is that we know that there isn't enough ESL being provided in our schools, there's not enough special ed teachers for kids with special needs, our schools are physically crumbling as we speak, the closure of community schools instead of reopening them to the community so they can become hubs of recreation, of public health and all kinds of other services; the closing of rural schools, pulling out the last bastion of any kind of community activity from these rural communities. Those are the kinds of things that we have common ground on; those are the kind of things that we can build from on common purpose as opposed to the politics of division which I'm so sick and tired of. After Harris and now even McGuinty he's following in the same footsteps in terms of the politics of division that Harris had except maybe a little bit more subtly. I've gotta tell you I don't have time for the politics of division; I have time for the politics of building."
I'm sure those who don't want to debate this "stupid, divisive, non-pressing issue" think this is a brilliant statement. I think this statement sucks.
When asked about messaging and specifically about the "Get Orange" slogan used in the last election, Horwath, who was co-chair of the NDP's 2007 election campaign, bristled and answered defensively.
"You know what, to be fair in terms of the last campaign - we could have stood on our heads and spit golden nickels and we would not have cut through the faith-based school funding issue. We could have had the most perfect campaign in the world and it still wouldn't have gotten through the Liberal's brilliant move to pull that piece out of the Tory playbook and ram it like a wedge."
Asked directly what she thought the party's message should be in an election, Horwath refused to speculate.
"You can't develop your message now. The message gets developed in the context of the environment as you're leading up to the campaign. I have no idea. I don't know, I mean how deep is the recession going to be, how long is it going to last? ... It's absolutely impossible to do the messaging on a campaign when you have no idea what the environment is going to look like and what the variables are."
This seems pretty weak to me.
"we could have stood on our heads and spit golden nickels and we would not have cut through the faith-based school funding issue. We could have had the most perfect campaign in the world and it still wouldn't have gotten through the Liberal's brilliant move to pull that piece out of the Tory playbook and ram it like a wedge."
Although the government (though Elections Ontario) made sure most people had no idea what the referendum was about, some people opposed MMP on the grounds that a Muslim Party could win seats since 3% of Ontario are Muslims. The faith-based schools issue not only hijacked the election, it even hijacked the referendum. The Ontario PC Party started to rip itself apart on the issue. The NDP stayed focussed on our issues, even though the media were busy chasing the red herring. That was the right and only messaging. But Howard should have gotten mad at the media circus earlier than he did.
Which proves the point: you have to adapt your election messaging to the context of the time. I think anyone who has fought a campaign knows this.
That's right Wiff, and a third party does not get to set the context or the dominant message unless it happens to be "different." The liberals set that campaign theme as soon as tory said he would run on "fund all religious schools." The media just followed along. Nothing in "get orange" fit that election frame.
The only way the NDP could have "shifted the frame" was to start in the "dominate frame" and shift from there. To do this the NDP needed to differentiate its education message from the liberals, but alas it's education message was "liberal lite" and thus got lost. Even if the NDP had strategically suggested that an NDP govt would setup a panel on education funding would have gotten some media attention, and thus provided the segway to "talk about their issues." But they remained "silent" and thus irrelevant.
Getting "angry" did not change that reality and nor would getting "angry now" or in the future would be good politics. Saying to Ontarians that this issue is not important, when obviously a lot of Ontarians expressed keen interest showed they were not "in touch" with them.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
Faith Based funding killed the Tories and won the Election for the Liberals. Anyone who wishes to fight the Liberal Party on the Education front, no matter what position they take will lose and lose BIG. The Liberals will do everything in their power to fight an election on Education. I can see the strategists rubbing their hands and thinking.... "Go ahead Make My Day". Project a 3 peat, because if the NDP are that naive to go attacking on the education front, the Liberals will have a field day at the NDP and NDP new leaders expense, and ironically SideLining John Tory, who won't fight an election on education again. So the only party to play the education ball with is the NDP.
The Liberals OWN education. And they own it in the Public and the Separate school system. Thousands upon thousands of teachers donate money, time and organizing to the Liberal Party.
IF the NDP wishes to engage in political suicide. I will miss them.
This seems pretty weak to me.
It seems pretty smart to me. Do you really want to develop the campaign strategy and message two-and-a-half years in advance.
And, even though Andy labels her response on the last campaign as "defensive", that seems to me to be bang on as well. Whatever mistakes were made by the NDP campaign (and there were plenty of them), we simply weren't going to get through the facade that was school funding debate.