Recreational hunting and DMGD II

http://www.fhfhcanada.org/

Someone ought to start a thread about how hunky we vegetarian cyclists are.

As for criticisms of hunters, I have more respect for someone who kills his or her own food than for those who buy meat from stores, knowing that the animals they are eating likely spent their lives in the misery of a factory farm before being killed and dismembered on an assembly line.

I feel exactly the same way.  Hunting is far more humane than factory farming.  Or, heck, any type of animal farming, if it comes right down to it.  The animal lives free, in the wild, right up to the moment they die.

I mean, we can talk about whether they should be killed at all, too.  But if eating meat is a given, then I think it's much more humane to kill it in the wild with a gun than raise them in captive misery and kill them in a slaughterhouse.

You need to come to our farm sometime Michelle.  Captive misery? - I don't know- our cattle have acres and acres to roam on.  Sometimes far more than they are suposed to - off looking for cider I guess

Even in the winter they can be outside, or inside it is their choice, but in all but the worse of the worse weather they prefer to be in their 8 acre winter field behind the barn. 

Yes the go to a local abittior, but we make the trip as quick and comfortable (no overcrowding for instance) as possible and we have very strict conditions they are -well let's be honest- killed under. 

People can quibble with whether they want to eat meat or not, that's their choice and I have always respected that.  To each there own has always been my view. 

 But for us it comes down to our stewardship of the land.  Livestock is a necessary part of a balanced and sustainable agricultural practice on most land in central Canada.  So we have to reconcile ourselves to making that transition from on the hoof to on the plate as painless and stressless as possible.  It is of course impossible, but we are always searching for ways to make it better.

I think where we get into trouble is when we say all hunters, vegans, farmers, people with purple hair or what have you are X - when in reality we are just pointing fingers at the icky things the 'other' does and justifying our own comforts.

What percentage of the meat consumed in this country comes from the idyllic setting you describe?

BA - cows on my farmily's farm are raised in the exact same way. Huge areas to roam (with a donkey accompanying them protecting calves from coyotes) and free movement between indoors/outdoors in winter. 

Most cattle farms are run the same way here on PEI - factory farmed meat is brought in from other countries mostly (China being the largest producer). There is a huge movement here to attempt people to buy from their local farmer and several farmer-owned and operated stores selling meats. We used to raise pigs in this manner as well, however we had to sell them as this industry is much more industrialized and we could no longer compete. 

Anyways, what would happen if everyone went vegetarian and domesticated animals were released to the wild is completely different discussion. The results for these animals would not seem very humane compared to a quick  bullet in the local slaughterhouse here. 

Not nearly enough, (probably less than 15 per cent although there are no concrete figures, but that is an estimate some of us have come up with after looking at what stats there are).  And while there are largish feed lots east of Manitoba, the vast majority of that process takes place in western Canada.  I always laugh at the concept of Alberta beef -If you follow this link to Brooks, Alberta you will see the processing plant with the feedlots across the road (which have an annual capacity of 70,000 I think it is)  That my friends is your 'Alberta beef' http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=brooks,+alberta&sll=50.56135,-113.851404&sspn=0.006638,0.019205&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Brooks,+Division+No.+2,+Alberta&ll=50.614073,-111.938925&spn=0.013262,0.038409&t=h&z=15

 You can see the slaughter facility and across the road you see the start of the brown squares- those brown squares are feed lots were Alberta beef is finished.  Move the scale out a little bit to get the whole picture.

And lest you think that America is any better JBH has a facility there that can house 2 million cattle.

However, blanket statements, even from the well-meaning are rarely accurate.  The reality is that there are alternatives, and I know Michelle and others here are very aware about them and support those they can.  All I was doing was a gentle reminder that those alternatives exist.

Ghislane - I have come to know a number of PEI farmers.  What has happened to farming in PEI is a test case for what will and is happening elsewhere.  The pork industry is gone in PEI for the most part, and I know beef farmers there are having a really hard time.  I was in PEI this summer and I could tell at a glance which were the beef farms, and which were the dairy and chicken farms even before I saw the barns.

Tis true Webgear - but then how many buyers are there really at our local auctions - not more than a small handful.

But I am taking this way off topic- sorry folks.

Continuing on the off topic theme. Finishing Alberta beef is also predominate way out in Nova Scotia.

Nova Scotia is very well suited to grass fed beef- and it doesn't cost that much more.

Very soon, transportation costs are going to turn against that factory system. It would be nice if people didn't patronize that system- local meat is available everywhere- but the worm will turn first on that system in Nova Scotia. And I suspect Ontario won't be too far behind.

While I understand that paying attention to what others write isn't your strong point, I did say "likely" in my original statement.

As meat-eating isn't going away, I think we'd best focus on making the process as humane as possible.  I appreciate the farmers who ensure that their livestock are well treated while under their care.  The problem comes later with the transport and at the slaughterhouse. 

Temple Grandin did some fabulous work with making slaughterhouses more humane to cattle.  I'm not sure how many companies have taken up her insightful suggestions.

My particular concern is with horse slaughter which can involve thousands of miles in a double-decker trailer followed by a ghastly scene at the slaughterhouse.  It's not a "quick bullet."  Horses have great mobility in their heads and necks and are sometimes wounded multiple times before they're killed. 

Yes, chicken and dairy farmers are fortunate to have a supply management system, which can never happen for beef and pork, etc. due to NAFTA. 

Why be a dick and personally attack me?  I was responding to some comments that were blanket statement from someone who I have enormous personal respect and regard for here on babble and in real life in an open and constructive way because I know what she said was probably not exactly what she meant.

You then asked a perfectly legitimate question which I responded to with some factual information and a bit of an explanation as to why I had posted the comments I had made about Michelle's post. 

Why that should then warrant a personal attack on me is completely beyond me.

ETA

I have made very similar comments to my farming bretheren who want to make sweeping statements about vegans and vegetarians.  While you can easily make the case that a widespread adoption of the mainstream vegan or vegetarian diet would have to mean greater use of hebicides, pesticides  and thus GMOs and mono-culture.  However, the truth is not all vegans or vegetarians eat in a way that is so unsustainable.  They seek out local organic foods, that aren't mass produced and processed, thus breaking out of the same industrial agriculture model that most of our food is grown in - whether it be meat, fruits, or vegetables.  So complaining about ALL is wrong headed.  We all make choices and those choses all have consequences and sweeping generalizations have quite a few too.

I just finished a week of deer hunting in SWOnt. 

It's a complicated arrangement. 

It's nice to see you have a sense of humour.