The Afghan People Will Win - Part 19

Sharp rise in Army deaths from small arms fire prompts inquiry into Taliban snipers

U.K. special envoy to Afghanistan Sherard Cowper-Coles, backs our friend Fidel's proposal on Afghan peace talks that would include Taliban and major insurgent group leaders (but pays the price):

I'm sorry, I don't know why the link won't bring up the article. You can access it on June 22, 2010 http://antiwar.com/ [39] page

Global War Racket Exposed: Funding Our Enemies

As former CIA Station Chief John Stockwell explained: "Enemies are necessary for the wheels of the US military machine to turn."

The last thing they want is for it to be over.

President Barrack Obama should do to General Stanley McChrystal what President Harry Truman did to General Douglas MacArthur: Fire him.

Yup. It's kind of lose-lose, but he really has no choice, especially with people riding him about perceived lack of control over the oil spill.

And speaking of creating a martyr, The first thing I wondered about when I heard this story if the good general sees himself following in the footsteps of Generals Grant and Eisenhower. Maybe the Tea Partyers already have his itinerary booked.

And there are several reports (Time is one) that he has offered his resignation.(oops.. just saw the bit in the post above)

If you read the Rolling Stone article or accounts of the article that discuss McChrystal and staff's stay in Paris, France, the reaction by both Democrat and Republican lawmakers is that McChrystal should be fired because he brings disgrace upon the Army and he (the military) threatens civilian government authority by politicizing the military.

The only ones who would see him as a martyr are his devoted band of staffers and perhaps Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Teabaggers.

The Teabaggers are a bunch of idiots: They yak ad nauseum about the ballooning size and spending of government, yet are incapable or unwilling to see the connection that wars are the biggest cause of ballooning the size and spending of government.

President Obamba has a number of options:

1. Accept the letter of resignation but not fire McChrystal and keep his COIN strategy. This is the simplest scenario. Punish McChrystal by letting him twist in the wind in D.C. for a few weeks, while he's pilloried by the press. Send him back to Afghanistan and make his job contingent upon his success or failure - a government situation review for Afghanistan is going to be held in December.

2. Fire him and keep his COIN strategy. Promote one of his junior officers. This provides the easiest transition.

3. Fire him and change strategy in Afghanistan. This creates the greatest chaos, but so far all indication shows that we are failing in Afghanistan and it is an unpopular war. When Obama said U.S. troops were going to withdraw in 2011, how serious was/is he?

@ Frmrsldr

I agree with you on those points. It is BECAUSE the teaparty are so irrational and malleable (and because of their rabid paranoia against government) that they most certainly see him as some kind of hero who stands up for Real Americans. I doubt most of them would even stop to think about what breach of his patriotism and his discipline it is.

And although Republicans are certainly criticizing his recklessness in public, behind closed doors I can't imagine they would see any attack on Obama as anything but a gift.

Do I honestly think he has eyes on the big job? Nah, maybe not.

But the whole story -him letting the press in after he already had a reputation as someone who has played the public when he thought he knew better than his boss - makes it pretty clear he it thinking about someone else's job rather than focusing on his own. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him get into politics. Some people love generals, even (or in some cases especially) if they don't know how to follow orders.

U.S. President Barack Obama has reportedly accepted the resignation of the country's top commander in Afghanistan.

Before a meeting at the White House Wednesday to explain his scathing comments about the U.S. administration in a magazine article, Gen. Stanley McChrystal had prepared a letter of resignation.

The Associated Press reported Wednesday afternoon that a senior administration official has confirmed the president accepted that resignation.

After an Oval Office showdown with McChrystal in the morning, Obama huddled with a bigger group of war advisers before announcing his decision on the general's fate to the nation at 1:30 p.m.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/06/23/obama-mcchrystal-afghanistan.html#ixzz0rhRReowL

How sad that Obama did not exhibit some leadership and use this opportunity to end the war.

Here's how things stand: Obama followed option 2 in post #39. He got rid of Gen. McChrystal and kept the COIN strategy.

He didn't promote anyone to replace McChrystal, he got McChrystal's boss, General David Petraeus Central Command (CENTCOM) commander (means he's in charge of both the Iraq and Afghan theaters of war) to assume McChrystal's command on top of his existing duties,

McChrystal borrowed his COIN ideas from Petraeus who in turn, got these ideas from dusting off some "How (not) To" Vietnam counterinsurgency manuals. Remember the 2007 Iraq troop surge?

In a Senate committee hearing about a weak ago, General David Petraeus was asked if he supported Obama's 2011 troops withdrawal date. Petraeus answered "With a qualified yes."

Strategy in Afghanistan is subject to a review by the Obama administration in December.

Termination Notice: McChrystal Sideshow Masks Murderous Reality

LOL! Like oxymorons much?

Obama won't end the war - the Afghan people will:

June deadliest month for foreign troops since 2001

Two Canadian soldiers killed by IED while en route to check out report of IED

And one was injured.

That makes 150 Canadian soldiers and 4 civilians killed - including now 2 female soldiers - and the number of injured is still unknown.

I count 152 soldiers killed, I an aware of one suicide and one died of wounds that are never in the total count.

This has been a deadly month for assassinations in Kandahar province also, the Taliban have been assassinating tribal elders, Mullahs, Maliks and government employees almost daily.

Gee, I wonder which spooky US taxpayer funded spy agency and their Saudi and Pakistani army intelligence pals taught "freedom fighters" how to make IEDs during their holy old anticommunist jihad of the 1980s and 90s? Our fearless military leaders should be comparing notes on IEDs with madrasah dudes still on the CIA's and Pakistani payroll.

Ok, I think that has been established already.

Well I'm glad you agree that this is all a terribly unnecessary colder war irony.

I figured if I agreed, you would not have to post the same point in every thread.

So I guess you've accepted the illegitimacy of the cold war propaganda and have since moved on to bascally self-identifying with the capitalist imperialist agenda on a wihole. Their interests are your interests. Here's a tip: the warfiteers and their toady-hirelings in gov wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. They have too many mindless drones at their beck and call as it is. You can choose to think for yourself, and that's the diff. It's why you babble.

Karzai Holds Secret Talks with Taliban

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=132267&sectionid=351020403

"Afgan president Hamid Karzai has reportedly met with the Taliban's most senior commander Serja-eddin-Haggani in Kabul, as UK calls for peace with the militants. The report said the meeting was mediated by Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI)."

These secretive talks between the Taliban and CIA controlled ISI, who in turn control the Taliban, all sounds very transparent and accountable, we can be sure. As Malalai Joya says, "from the frying pan into the fire." What Afghans don't know can't hurt them, is the way their colonizers and theocratic feudal overlords view things in general. Meanwhile our colonial administrators in Ottawa are out of the loop as usual. They just send more money and volunteer more Canadian lives as instructed by Warshington.

Why the Taliban is winning in Afghanistan

Ya the warfiteers have lost big time in the Stan and Iraq. We can be sure they're kicking themselves now for having conned taxpayers in the US and Canada and Britain out of billions of dollars. Those poor bastards laughing all the way to the bank never get an even break. They're just as unlucky today as they were during the glory years of British empire. When will they ever learn.

Finally a Republican tells the truth about Afghanistan stating that the US cannot win the war, so the right wingers want to get rid of him.

Michael Steele under pressure to resign after saying US cannot win in Afghanistan, a 'war of Obama's choosing'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/05/republicans-chairman-afghan-...

It's interesting. In that or any other article about this story, one can separate the intelligent (Michael Steele) from the ignorant Republicans.

Mr. Steele has woken up and can smell the coffee.

What does he do?

He admits that the war cannot be won.

He says that it is "Obama's war" and the Democrats' war and tries to shift the blame on them and away from baby Bush and the Republicans who actually started the war.

He is probably an (economic) libertarian Republican who is opposed to ballooning government, taxation and government debts and deficits.

That is why he is an antiwar Republican as opposed to his prowar Republican colleagues.

oops

I think what they will continue doing is destroying local infrastructure and forcing poorest Afghans into the "illegal economy" of growing opium and dealing in weapons. It seems to be what the CIA wants as drugs are still worth about half or more of the country's GDP. The CIA is protecting and doing business with Afghan drug lords just like they did in the 1980s during the anticommunist jihad. Afghan and Russian reports have claimed that the vast majority of drugs flown out of Afghanistan (and increasingly Iraq) are by US aviators to destinations in Turkey, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Iraq, and to their Albanian mafia friends in Kosovo. Dubya's phony war continues unabated under another corrupt regime with many of the same embedded bureaucrats lurking in the background and continuing to fill in the blanks on cheques of money that make round trips back to their bad selves with a bit skimmed off here and there as payment for services rendered abroad. The whole thing is as corrupt as the day is long, but it's not a real war. That it's a real war on terror is total fiction.

Afghan War: Petraeus Expands US Military Presence Throughout Eurasia

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/afghan-war-petraeus-expands-u...

"That Petraeus took charge of soldiers from 50 nations occupying a conquered country on his own country's Independence Day has gone without commentary, either ironic or indignant.."

The true cost of Canada's Afghan war:

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/07/03/the-wounds-of-war-physical-ps...

Saving Face in Unwinnable War

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/eric_margolis/2010/07/09/14...

"Sinking in debt and no closer to victory, heads may roll as the US and NATO wrap up their pointless Afghan adventure... By 2011, Canadians will have spent an estimated $18.1 billion on Afghanistan...

The heretical Republican Steele was speaking truth when he said this ugly, pointless war is unwinnable. But Washington's imperial impulses continue. Too many political careers in the US, Canada and Europe hang on this misbegotten war. So too, does the tale of the obsolete NATO alliance that may well meet its Waterloo in the hills of Afghanistan.."

In case you were wondering where a big chunk of Canada's foreign aid budget was going:

Brigadier General Mohammed Asif Jabarkhel sits with folded arms in his office, just a few steps away from the security checkpoint at Kabul International Airport. "Of course I know what's going on here," the 59-year-old head of the airport's customs police grumbles from beneath his thick moustache as a fan whirs in the background. "But, in this country, who's allowed to speak the truth?"

Compare, Contrast and Evaluate

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2010/07/compare-contrast-and-evalua...

"The Pentagon has announced the selection of a replacement for General David Petraeus as Central Command (CENTCOM) Commander today, and it will be the controversial Gen. James Mattis that goes to Congress for final approval.

In 2005, then Lt Gen Mattis spoke of his 'fun' experience in Afghanistan at a forum in San Diego, describing it as 'a hell of a hoot.' After laughter from soldiers in the audience Mattis went on to declare 'It's fun to shoot some people..'

Afghanistan's Pashtuns Fight for their Way of Life

http://thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100712/FOREIGN/707119... [74]

"The country's largest ethnic group is growing increasingly frustrated and angry with the government and its foreign backers. From house raids and air strikes, to problems with classroom and civil service, they believe they are the main victims of a war deliberately targeting their very way of life. 'Our blood is turning the streets red, and so is yours,' said Nasimgul Tutakhail. an associate professor at Kabul University who helped organize the protest. 'If you do not listen to your speech, very soon you will be defeated..'"

Canada Out of Afghanistan's dirty US war now!

Oh look, something useful actually got accomplished in Afghanistan:

Three US marine soldiers, Brian Chambers, Chris Berry and Aaron Shaw, started a mission to help bring home the kittens they have befriended while serving in Afghanistan . With generous donations from cat lovers and help from Noward Dogs animal rescue, Kiki and Keykey, two lovely ginger kitties, have successfully made it home in the US.

Most funny, Doug. Looks like they are desperately searching for some - any good news out of Afghanistan.

Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that a fight to the death was inevitable between nazi Germany and communist Russia. The reason for this was that whoever controlled the vast lands and resources of Russia would be a world dominant power.

For the past 20 years the American Empire has considered itself the 'world's only Superpower'. It has seen Russia (along with China and India) as a threat to this position. The American Empire also needs ever more energy (currently still oil) and natural resources to prevent decline/maintain its pesent extent/expand. For the past 20 years, the American Empire has enviously coveted Russia's natural resources. There are many American intelligence officials who hold the view that for this reason, war between the American Empire and Russia is inevitable. During this time, the Pentagon hasn't been sitting idle. One can well imagine it has been planning a number Operation Barbarossa scenarios.

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/07/11/us-building-secret-bases-in-a...

That's A LOT of money for Canada!  I can think of 18 thousand ways this money could have been better spent here at home, do we have room for a new thread?

Perhaps. Unfortunately Canada's elites care little for what Canadians may consider a better use of their tax dollars..

The Demand for Obedience and Reverence to Authority

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2010/07/demand-for-obedience-and-re...

"Why is the United States in Afghanistan?...Afghanistan is right in the damned middle of much that is of great importance to those who seek power and domination.."

ENOUGH: Pakistan's Coalition of Conscience - Stop the War! Charter of Demands

http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2010/07/18/the-coalition-of-conscience-stop-the...

"These are the screams of conscience. Let them travel far and wide through the resonance of people's will and be understood and acted upon with speed, honesty and conviction. We wish a better and secure future for all nations of the world. All civil society organizations and individuals the world over are invited to join and raise their voices for the future of mankind..We the Coalition of Conscience demand that this illegal, unjust and inhuman war be stopped through the collective power of human resilience and conscience the world over...The foreign presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan is part of the problem rather than the solution.."

Clinton Hears 'Enough' 'Stop the War' from Pakistan's Civil Society

http://rupeenews.com/2010/07/17/clinton-hears-enough- [80]'stop-the-war'-from-pakistan's-civil-society/

Capt. Robert Semrau has been found guilty by a military panel of disgraceful conduct but not guilty of second-degree murder in the death of a wounded Afghan insurgent.

The charge of behaving in a disgraceful manner carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Semrau's lawyers will be back in court Tuesday to present a Charter of Rights argument over military sentencing procedures.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/07/19/semrau-court-martial.html#ixzz0uEBbkGgm

That shows you how we calculate the value of an Afghan life.

actually  - we obviously calculate Afghan lives quite valuable which is why we have spent all this money making sure we help take as many as we can. But we will call them 'Taliban' not 'Afghan'.   By contrast we obviously don't calculate the value of our  own cannon fodder very highly  or else we wouldn't keep sending them into harms' way and their untimely death in  this graveyard of empires at the clip we have been. We call these dead 'heroes'. And not all the good people of our stolen Canadian land and all the good people's opposition parties in their parliament toiling and moiling mightily without cease for all these years could end it, it seems. But the Afghans are certainly giving it a good kick at the can. Now perhaps you begin to see why their lives, those resisting, might be calculated as more valuable...

The Afghan People will most certainly win.

The Canadian people will most certainly lose.

Graveyard of Empires and servants of empire too.

Afghan-Conference Endorses Indefinite Occupation

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jul2010/afgh-j22.shtml

"Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the NATO secretary general was even more blunt, insisting that there was no deadline for winding down the US-led occupation, 'Our mission will end, only when, the Afghans are able to maintain security on their own," he said.."

NATO Pulls Pakistan Into Its Global Network

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/nato-pulls-pakistan-into-its-... [85]

"...It is NATO's first 21st century, first avowedly expeditionary military doctrine. It is the blueprint for global NATO, with partners and operations on at least 5 continents.."

Ill Wind Blows for a 'Neutral' Afghanistan

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LG24Df01.html

"According to available details, the 17-acre (6.9 hectare) site of the new American military base is hardly 35 kilometers from the border of Uzbekistan and it seems set to become the pendant of a 'string of pearls' that the US is kneading through Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan along the 'soft underbelly' of Russia and China's Xinjiang.

How would the countries in the region size up the startling prospect that the US and NATO are possibly quitting the Afghan war by 2014 and yet preparing to settle down for a long stay in the Hindu Kush?"

Wikileaks uncovers the disgusting and lengthy atrocities of the NATO occupation of Afghanistan last Sunday ...WikiLeaks Releases 92,000 Secret Docs About Afghan War

Every civilian butchered, every wedding party strafed by gunfire, every bodyguard shot in the head for not gunning down civilians on the order of US officers, etc, etc. and makes Daniel Elsberg's Pentagon Papers look modest in comparison.

"It is the most comprehensive history of a war ever to have been published during the course of a war (in history), " said Julian Assange, founder of Wikileaks.

Furthermore, the **** is really hitting the fan now.

For STARTERS, the 4 Canadian soldiers killed in September 2006 ... turned out to be victims of "friendly" fire.

Well, Wikileaks got that one wrong.

It's a mistake saying Wikileaks got it "right" or "wrong", W just leaked 90,000 or so military reports and made no comment AFAIK on that report.

It's possible the military report could be right, wrong--or just badly written.

Here is a quote from it from the G&M--I don't know if they have left any relevant material out of it

“At 030414Z Sept 06 received SAF & RPGS from sawtooth building. returned fire 1x GBU dropped on it. Sawtooth building is heavily damaged. only 4x sections remain standing. no activity observed. Casualties 4x CDN KIA 4X CDN WIA.”

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-disputes-leaked-friend...

I am only going by personal knowledge of the event. The report is badly written in my view and experience.

Yeah, that's what I suspected but I just now noticed the full report on the Guardian and it was originally headed "blue-blue" (friendly fire)--unless Wikileaks edited in all those references:

Key
   
C7D0AA09-3145-40A7-8B29-F49B5B659501
* WIA: wounded in action. KIA: killed in action. MGRS: Military grid reference system. CCIR: Commander's critical information requirement. Hover over underlined words for an explanation or see the glossary in full.
Source: Wikileaks war diaries
Date     2006-09-03 04:14:00
Type     Friendly Fire
Category     Blue-Blue
Tracking no.     2007-033-004411-0721
Title     (FRIENDLY FIRE) BLUE-BLUE RPT 205TH RCAG : 4 CF KIA 7 CF WIA 1 CIV WIA
Summary     At 030414Z Sept 06 received SAF & RPGS from sawtooth building. returned fire 1x GBU dropped on it. Sawtooth building is heavily damaged. only 4x sections remain standing. no activity observed. Casualties 4x CDN KIA 4X CDN WIA.
At 030419Z Sep received SAF and RPG fire on op, a total of WIA in these hour 7x CDN, and 4x CDN KIA and 1x WIA interpreter.
Region     RC SOUTH
Attack on     FRIEND
Complex attack     FALSE
Reporting unit     205th RCAG
Unit name     205th RCAG
Type of unit     ENEMY
Friendly WIA     7
Friendly KIA     4
Host nation WIA     0
Host nation KIA     0
Civilian WIA     1
Civilian KIA     0
Enemy WIA     0
Enemy KIA     0
Enemy detained     0
MGRS     41RQQ310931
Latitude     31.54976082
Longitude     65.43344879
Originator group     UNKNOWN
Updated by group     A SIGACTS MANAGER
CCIR      
Sig Act      
Affiliation     FRIEND
D Colour     BLUE

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/afghanistan/warlogs/C7D0AA09-3145-40A7-8...

Look at the Date Time Group (DTG) stamps.

This is looks like an initial contact report or a situation report.

This is a divisional level report looking at a company level issue, there is about 7 levels of command between the two units, therefore the ground truth and what the report is saying will be very different especially when there is a rather large and complex fight going on at the time.

Thats kinda the point. Even our top brass is saying they were killed in action against insurgents with an astrix. The bomb missed its target while they were engaging afghani fighters(soldiers not planes).  It landed on them while they were fighting. Its a half lie, but its still a lie. They again got bombed by an amercian pilot while shooting at the "enemy". So yes they died fighting the taliban but they didn't get killed by an ied or from small weapon fire from the enemy. 

The government is being very weaselly on it (the libs aren't being much better on it either) but are saying it will put our troops at risk, when all of the info is well over half a year old. Where have I heard that excuse before? Oh yeah everytime we get ANY info about anything in afghanistan. We can't talk about the Karzai Rape Law, because t will decrease the morale of the soldiers and put them in danger? Really? Can't talk about torture from 2006 it will put them in danger...well duh if you torture people and they don't get lockup or dead, they will tell people what you did. No need to worry about some reports.

They were not killed by an American pilot, the report is incorrect.  I talked to the guys that were there at the incident in great detail for a period of several weeks.

If you want we could start another thread on report reading and errors within this report.

What wikileaks released was the radio comms with the American unit at the battle and their higher command.

They speak of a U.S. airstrike that destroyed a building where four Canadian soldiers were killed, and four were injured.

The publicly released description of the incident by the Defense Department, the Defense Minister's spokesperson and the military magazine The Maple Leaf claim that the four soldiers killed were killed by insurgents.

Whether the initial U.S. Army rad comms or the later Canadian government version of events are correct, remains to be determined.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Canadian government and military lied to us.

Frmsldr

You are incorrect, the report linked is not a radio log, and this is a SIGACTs report. A SIGACTs is usually a single report based off one incident, this report is delivered to higher, flanking and lower units of the unit in contact with the enemy.

SIGACTs are used in a graphical method to brief soldiers on a incident talking place, and are linked to other events on a map to show the amount of events which have occurred in a area.

SIGACTs are rarely updated because of manpower, time and space issues, it was likely replaced by another report.

Has the media release all 92,000 reports?  Yesterday when I was looking at the Guardian website, there was only 300 reports provided.

Whatever it is or was - saying that wikileaks "got it wrong" is nonsense. It's like saying an ipod or MP3 player (or for older technology lovers) a tape recorder or any other recording or transmitting device "got it wrong". 

The records are what they are. In themselves, they are neither "right" nor "wrong" - it is people's understanding or interpretation of them that can be either right or wrong.

I agree that the people's understanding and interpretation of this report is wrong. People (mostly journalists) should look at all reports and have an understanding of these reports before releasing news articles about an event.

I know that will never happen.

The US regime is already doing damage control for what is, in essence, opening the Stasi files. The current line of bullshit is that the material refers to events UP TO the Obama regime increasing the troops last December, the so-called "surge" and so on.

"This material doesn't just reveal abuses. ... It tells you how the war is going, .... what weapons systems were used, ... " etc etc etc.The press conference of Julian Assange took place virtually at the same time as the US regime spouted their propaganda. Assange's press confernce was, of course, way, way better. ha ha ha ha.

The Americans are being blown out of the fucking water. Direct hit amidships. The General Belgrano. Ka-Boom! Julian Assange has done an absolutely astounding service for anyone who cares about war and peace, warcrimes, and so on. He should get a medal.

"The greatest importance is ... the unvarnished quality... of the information." This is in marked contrast to the stream of vomit, of lies, from the official authorities, the puppet regime in Kabul, and so on. We can therefore predict the main thrust of the American "spin" ... will be to cast aspersions on the information. Good luck, Uncle Sam! lol. lol.

I spent most of lunch picking through the reports and judging from the 300 the Guardian posted pretty much all the coalition and Afghan army does over there is shot each other and civilians LOL.

Yes, and pick off drivers, motorcyclists, children, etc.  who get in their way for fear they might be suicide bombers. There must be some amazing cognitive dissonance going on for people to participate in such activities and then they, or their superiors, blather about "hearts and minds", "training" the local police, "helping" the Afghans to govern themselves, etc, etc, etc.

There is enough material for dozens of historians for dozens of years. But the amount of material and its timing DURING A WAR is amazing. Has there been anything like it?

 Nope, I'd say this is a rather historic event. It looks like Afghanistan is going back to the Taliban almost for sure now... shall we pop Champaign or crack open a few beers?  

When I was "in", I was in an armored unit that later converted to reconn. The "report" was described to me by a retired U.S. former Colonel who said that it was a log of radio comms by a unit involved in the battle. This made perfect sense as one of the very important duties reconn. units perform is to monitor radio traffic and keep logs on the important transmissions.

Information that is recorded in a log is never taken out, removed or altered. If earlier information is incorrect and additional information is available that contradicts or differs, then that information is later added to the log.

In this particular case, there is no information added later that contradicts or differs from the earlier information. Yet the Canadian government, Defense Minister spokesperson and Defense Department publication's account of events contradicts the log released on wikileaks.

Remember, that log nor the U.S. Pentagon and military's account of events (which are consistent with the log) were not released to the public until now.

In this case who's version of the truth is correct?

Yours, the government's and the military's - and anyone else's that contradicts is wrong? Is that how it works?

There is Daniel Ellsberg's release of the Pentagon Papers, but it pales in comparison (in terms of the volume and the easy manner in which leaks can be anonymously done) to this.

Sorry, what type of report are you referring to?

Well, every unit I was ever in, the standard procedure was to always monitor the radio, on one net higher and lone net lower. You always tracked the close and deep battle of your unit and flanking units.

Anyways, this event was very well documented by several organizations; there are several personal and professional accounts in numerous publications.

I followed the battle over the radio as it happened. A few weeks later I talked to the platoon commander in the company for several hours about what had happened. I even talked to a few friends from the previous unit that was attacked there about a month before.

My account is closer to the truth than anything that has been leaked thus far.

The "report" I'm referring to is the wikileak document we are discussing.

Ok, are you saying the report from Wikileak is a radio log?

Yes, in terms of what I've been able to figure out, that looks like the best explanation to me.

I am afraid that report is not a radio log, it is a SIGACT report.

Radio logs are completely different. 

Yeah, in terms of what's been placed in this thread, it looks like a SIGACT report.

In terms of the people I've heard from and the people I've discussed it with - there's more information on this incident out there.

They definitely were referring to a radio log. Every entry would be beside a time and under a date heading.

I would read this article.

Operation Medusa: The Battle For Panjwai

Do you ever read articles from The Canadian Army Journal?

Are you familiar with this site?

http://www.understandingwar.org/ [116]

However, I must qualify this with a warning: Don't get your information from such sources solely.

To balance things out, I'll leave this address:

http://antiwar.com/ [39]

You don't want to suffer from 'tunnel vision' or 'inbred thinking'.

Frmrsldr, I'm no ardent reader of the Legion mag, but I read all three attempts to describe Op Medusa, because I've been upset over Op Medusa as a missed learning op for Canadians since 06.  My take on the Legion stories was of glory seeking brigs gen ordering a Col Lavoie to take his group into an area that he felt needed better study and rec first, which it sure did, and had he been taken seriously a lot of lives would have been saved.  By the description of wild shooting, sounds like the main body of the ambush was desperate locals.  Instead, Fraser and (I think implied) Gauthier, got to fart into their wingchairs and bellow to get on with it.

So whether or not yet another fighter jet bunch got it wrong, it's an ugly story that got so much uglier. 

Of course, breakfast time the next day was definitely a hail of US DU popcans.  Three dozen people suddenly on the ground, as if dead or dying, blood everywhere.  After the day before, some people have a lot to say. 

Webgear, you sound as if you know some of these people, and maybe Lavoie.  We all need to hear them.

And after that, Op Medusa (funny name considering the propaganda about security and dignity of women) was a rampage of slaughter and destruction, led by Canadian brass.  Swagger swagger, biggest go since Korea.

Memory nudge:  other big event, Sept 2, was the British spyplane with 14 aboard (?) killing everyone when it burst into flames and crashed.  Informed courage, the retrieval of bodies etc, possibly extra order motivated by getting the spy gear too.

So Pamela Constable may not be RAWA's fav reporter, but this is what she posted in late November 06, not embedded and stoned on armpits, but on the spot.

Now almost no one dares to drive on the road. NATO forces declared victory here in late September, claiming to have killed about 1,500 insurgents in a campaign named Operation Medusa.

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/26/AR2006112600960.html?nav=emailpage

Op Medusa: Sept 3-17 '06. As soon as "victory" had been declared, an old man with a box on the back of his bicycle rode into a group of Canadian soldiers, reported as handing out candies to children, though locals said no children were present. Remember that? The old man blew himself up and killed four Canadians, wounded others.

 If true, 1500 people dead. 80,000 displaced, coming back if ever to rubble.

CBC "news": Generals braying on about raisin drying towers as fortresses with evil slits for the Taliban to shoot through. Generals on about tunnels with holes for the Taliban to pop up and shoot through (karezes). A total disgrace.

 End result? Most Canadians died along the same stretch of road, less than 20 miles, and long the new fabulously wide route summit pitched to us as a great way for locals to get their vegetables to market.

Frmrsldr

Thanks for the advice on sole source information gathering, I would never would have thought that trusting only one source would be very good.

For your information I am very familiar with the sites you have linked and have been reading them for years.

Ah, yes. Operation Medusa. That unbridled murder fest. Afghanistan's "Falujah". Where there was no restraint to the amount of rockets, missiles, bombs, bullets and artillery shells that were unleashed.

In an article for the Globe and Mail, Graeme Smith describes the use of white phosphorus as spec.(culative) fire on groves of marijuana. He quotes then Gen. Rick Hillier, "We used white phosphorus on a grove of marijuana where the Taliban was hiding. The marijuana was too wet and did not burn. We called off the use of white phosphorus when some of our guys became sick."

Just lovely isn't it? We inflict white phosphorus casualties on our own troops. No mention was made of how many (if any) insurgents were killed or injured from this white phosphorus attack.

Don't read too much into this, but that explains a lot of things.

If I remember properly, Operation Medusa start on the 29th of August, 2006. Those killed were taking part in the operation.

I did get the date wrong though, it was Sept 2-17 06, at least as announced.

I could be wrong, it was 4 years ago. I might be remembering the day we received the orders for the Operation. I would have to check my journal.

Continued here.