Iran Protests 2

Iran: Whose Side are We Really On?

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2009/06/29/WhoseSideIran/

Yes in fact, I would say that you could charachterized the killing of Baruch Goldstein as a lynching. After he was subdued with a fire extinguisher, he should by all rights have been handed over to the authorities.So yes, I do think his rights were abused when he was beaten to death, after he was subdued and disarmed.

Your description combined with the doctors description of the original "arrest" of the Basiji militiaman who was suspected of killing Neda clearly demonstrate that the person was fully in control of the demonstrators and no longer a threat. Furthermore, he was let go, as you pointed out and then later recaptured. We don't even really know if the person in the first instance, is the person in the second instance, for sure, or whether it was not someone who univolved in the killing and then picked up later.

But in either case, once captured, and one presumes disarmed, the person no longer is a credible threat, so one has to assume that this was simply vigilante violence.

Who is to know? Certainly not I. Of course one would be concerned about the person being tried and so on and so forth, and also about what will happen if they are released, and the anger of people is certainly understandable, but it is a pretense to say that he was "an armed militia member who is shooting people to death on the scene", since of course he would have been shooting the people who were trying to arrest him, and must have been in the control of the demonstrators in order for them to beat him to death.

I am certainly not going to argue if such is justified, or not, but lets not try and paint a false picture of these things, were lily-white protestors happen to beat someone to death as an act of self-defence. Basically you have to be entirely in control of someone in order to beat them to death, it is hard to do at 20 paces when they are shooting at you.

My personal feeling is that posing these events as simply an issue of peaceful protestors against violent security forces is way too oversimplified. What we are really talking about is an escalation of violence, in a situation were mutual fear is a fundamental factor. The actions of individuals on either side here could be the igniting spark that causes an erruption of violence in any given situation, and I do note, that in early scenes of the demonstrating, what we see is police backing off from demonstrators, not just Basiji militiamen brazenly provoking demonstrators, though this is also evident.

Does a guerrilla army have the right to summarily shoot prisoners because they are an encumberance and therefore a liability to that army? Well, that is a tough question, and under the circumstances, such may even be justifiable, but lets not pretend that it is something other than it is: Summary Execution.

Looking in the Wrong Places

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/954/op2.htm

"Arab analysis of the crisis in Iran reveals more about latent defeated mentalities then the crisis itself.."

Strange article that.

In the first case there is a serious misconstruction of the kind of class analysis that Bishra ia using. Class is not something derived from simple statistics, One does not automatically drop from the middle class, and become lower class if one enters university, and then fails to get a well paying job afterward. What one often becomes is someone with middle class expectations and aspirations who is not having those aspirations and expectations fulfilled.

In the context of this particular struggle, it could very well be that a "middle class" revolt would indeed be predicated on the failure of the society to fulfill those expectations, and so, simply demonstrating that there is a substantial number of unemployed people under 30, does not in and of itself undermine Bishra's analysis. I am not going to venture a guess as to whether of not Bishra is right about the class constitution of those in revolt, against those in power, and who they represent, but as far as s deconstruction of Bishra's analysis, this simply does not cut it.

In the second case, there is precision little about how Bishra's analysis expresses a "latent defeated mentalities", except that this seems like a convenient throwaway line, dangled without an arguement or proof. I will say that calling Nasralah and Bishra "defeatists" is completely absurd, prima facie.

This brings me to the third point. If there is anything that Arabs know about this particular struggle, is that to be in opposition to the official enemies of the west is to find oneself hailed as a liberator of ones people, and to have ones name become a household world over night, whereas to be Azmi Bishra, a former elected Arab member of Knesset, who was outspoken about making Israel a country of all its people, and a supporter of popular revolt against tyrrany, and a lifelong proponent of "democratic" means, is to be persecuted, stripped of ones elected office, deemed a traitor and to be forced into exile, without even cursory comment from the western press.

I agree  the piece is problematic but decided to post it because Al Ahram has significant reach in the region. Here's another re: Chavez on Iran  from the perspective of the League for the Fifth International

'Chavez sides with the clerical dictatorship against Iran's youth, workers and women'

http://revolutionaryflowerpot.blogspot.com/2009/07/chavez-sides-with-cle...

Problematic? If there is anything problematic it is a Palestinian stateman trying to present a social analysis of Iran without having much knowledge of the Iranian society. Bishara's false assumption, that the poor support Ahmadinejad, is the main basis for his faulty analysis. It is a pity that the arab intellectutals seem so blinded by Ahmadinejad's rhetoric that they neglect to notice how much his policies, political, economical or social, have been completely in line with what the neoconservatives and pro-Israel crowd want.

Then, it is quite telling that a well-known leftist Iranian post-colonialist intellectual like Hamid Dabashi, who is a leading anti-war and pro-palestinian figure in the academia, feels necessary to rebuke the false assumptions in Bishara's piece. Can anyone here find a piece from any anti-imperialist or leftist Iranian in favour of the recent election results? I haven't seen any.   

Agreed. Here's the latest:

29 People to be Executed Tomorrow in Karaj, Iran

http://worker-communistpartyofiran.blogspot.com/2009/07/29-people-to-be-...

US Lawmakers Call for Supporting Terrorists in Iran

http://original.antiwar.com/charles-davis/2009/07/02/us-lawmakers-call-f... [9]

You may want to argue that Bishra's assumption is false. That is an entirely different than Dabashi completely sidestepping the arguement about class that is made, and using a surface statistical analysis to do so, where people's class interests are simply a reflection of their immediate material circumstance. Furthermore, you seem completely content with this "post-colonialist" intellectual lecturing Arabs about their "defeated mindset".

You seem pretty sure fo the fact that having prominent Iranian intellectuals attacking prominent Arab dissidents, such as Nasralah and Bishra as examples of "defeated mentalities", is not what the "neo-conservatives" want? I am not so sure. How the hell did Arab defeatism get in here anyway? Or could not Dabashi contain his desire to do a little Arab bashing by taking up the traditional line of blaming them for their own mifortunes, as if this is not thematic in anti-Arab Zionist propaganda?

It would have been sufficient to simply deconstruct what is wrong with Bishra's critique of the present circumstances about iran, don't you think? Or is bashing Arabs dissidents as examples of "defeated mentalities" absolutely necessary to the critique?

If Dabashi wants to attack the fundamental "assumption" that Bishra has made, then he would do better to attack the basis of the assumption, internal to the arguement, as opposed sidestepping it, and engaging in broad as hominem sideswipes, about "latent defeated mentalities".

Unfolded Ballot Slips in the Boxes

http://www.roozonline.com/english/news/newsitem/article/2009/july/02//un...

IRNA shows suspicious recount pics

I wish to contribute a few links on this subject, following what Mori wrote on his blog:

And following what Antiwar's Justin Raimondo [13] wrote about being between a rock and a hard place when it comes to committing oneself to supporting the protesters in Iran:

Here then are a few links that I've been following, which I hope you will find useful. In a couple of cases, I've linked to an interesting article. You can go to the main page from there.

Tehran Bureau [14] is doing superb work.

There's this Iranian professor, in exile I guess, who blogs at Windows on Iran [15]. A great site! 

Very interesting is Naj's blog, Iran Facts [16]. 

This person is doing back-breaking work trying to keep us to date with the latest: Iran News - One Stop Source [17] 

A heart-wrenching site: Iran Body Count [18] 

Finally, for now, for those of us who need incentive to get involved, if only to just email interesting links to friends & family or just post a link on your blog: Meet Mr. Abbasi [19]!

Zeynab Peyghambarzadeh of women's commission of "Tahkim-e-Vahdat" & "1 milion signatures" campaign has been arrested in Laleh park today - To be confirmed but I thought I'll post it all the same since Iranbaan who reported it is a reliable source. I'll post an update if that turns out to be not correct.

In the meantime, some information on Zeynab can be found here [21]. If any of you has more, please post links. Thx!

Worth a read!

Interesting photo Doug, That looks like a group of youth trying to clamber over a fence into a protected compound of some kind. Do you know the location at which is was shot? Is it perhaps a police station, of some kind?

Aside from the miraculous appearance of the Guardian list of those slain in post election violence, personalizing the detained and the dead, something never done when Israel unleashes its security forces upon the Palestinian population, who remain faceless statistics. it is remarkable to look at the contrast in mainstream reporting between current events in Iran, in comparison to Honduras:

From Bloomberg

The statistics of large pro-coup rallies are offered without caveat, whereas pro-Amedinejad rallies in Iran, even when very large are dismissed with questions about whether or not person were paid to attend or bussed in from elsewhere. Meanwhile when rallies in support of Mouavi were smaller, as they occassionally were, this was attributed to the fear inspired in the population by the security forces. Neither possibility is raised in the reporting by Bloomberg on the unrest in Honduras.

The contrast between the manner in which Zelaya supporters are described as masked individuals carrying weapons, and Iranian anti-Amedinejad protestors is obvious. They are described as "peaceful", even though the photographic evidence, clearly shows a similiarity between pro-Mouavi demonstrators and pro-Zelaya demonstrators. As we see above, not only do we see masked Iranian demonstrators but one is shown to be carrying military grade small arms.

Interestingly, it now seems to the photo of the protestor carrying the rifle has been removed from the Pro-Protestor blog from which I got found it.

"...one is shown to be carrying military grade small arms."

"Interestingly, it now seems to the photo of the protestor carrying the rifle has been removed from the Pro-Protestor blog from which I got found it." 

are you referring to the photo in #14?

No it was in the now blank post number 12. Military grade meaning a combat grade assault rifle. I found the photo though one of Gene's links.

Something to take into consideration when reading the column at the link I posted above, Clerical Group Defies Leader on Disputed Iran Election: Who are the "Association of Teachers and Researchers of Qom?"

It's pretty unfortunate that bloggers are deleting phographic evidence that is not entirely favourable to the anti-Amedinejad camp. The photo Doug posted is of protestors trying to get into some kind of secured compound or other.

unfortunate yes. and also counter-productive (for the anti-A camp.). 

they could at least have tried to say the armed person was one of A's undercovers.  now we're thinking A was correct and it was some US payoff.

The person was clearly with the protestors, in front, and backed up by masked youths with rocks. I really doubt it was some US stooge, more likely someone who "forgot" to hand in all his weapons after the Iran/Iraq war.

It's hard to tell with a picture Cueball.  They could very well be the militia for all we know.  And besides, that little pea shooter has all the look of a childs toy.  Both sides will have an interest in photographic propaganda.  Nice clarity in that pic too.  Almost like he was posing.

The photo is obviously legit. And yes he is posing. People pose for photos all the time. Its pretty clear no one is throwing rocks at him.

It seems that doug's photo is indeed a photo taken from the June 15th attack on the Basiji HQ in Tehran on June 15th, and the protestors are clearly trying to scale the walls. Here is the uneditorialized version of the photo:

Video footage of the event can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBWEw2N78pY

One can clearly see that the molotov cocktails have been thrown into the compound, and also more footage of the same scene, shown through Iranian news sources clearly show that there is an organized assault on the Basiji HQ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W20A52QhCNw [36]

From the various sources it is possible to get a fairly clear picture of what is happening here, and this is not simply an episode of some peaceful demonstrators defending themselves against police assault, but an organized attack upon a police facility. Even the person who collected the film footage describes it as an "attack against a base". This not a matter of police provacateurs, staged dramatics or Iranian state propaganda as some have alleged here.

Any such attempt in North America, or Europe, would certainly result in the police firing upon demonstrators.

It's a matter of violence fueling more violence, piling on one after another, until the entire thing becomes a subjective thing to gaze upon at a distance.  I still don't know how you could emphatically concude that the pic with gun toting chap is legit.  At any rate, the record of covert interference in Iranian politics doesn't require photographic evidence.

I highly doubt he is a foreign plant, or agent of anyone. I am sure that many Iranians have aquired weapons over the years. That really isn't the point. The point is that the contention that the actions of all protestors were universally non-violent and provoked is nonesense. As with most of these kinds of things there was a hard core of protestors who were more than willing to move the cause to a higher level of insurgency. No doubt also there were members of the Baiji who also escalated tensions.

Among other things it is quite evident that the Basiji are badly trained and organized, as can be seen in numerous you tube videos. The one of 6 or 7 of them riding motorcycles into a potentially hostile crowd, then being dismounted and assaulted shows how foolish they are. That kind of thing is not only ineffective, it is also likely to get you killed.

It is quite evident that on June 15th a large group of protestors assaulted a police compound and were shot at. Not suprising at all. Nor is it particulaly evidence of police excess.

Israel seeks 'Plan B' if US-Iran talks fail:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098043.html

"In the situation that has arisen following the protests in Iran, there is much greater international readiness for harsh steps against the regime in Tehran," the official noted."

US wants Iran to know it can be attacked:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098037 [40]

"Iran's nuclear program has been restored to prominence on the American Israeli diplomatic agenda. After Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu adopted the "two states for two peoples" formula on the Palestinian issue, American recompense came in the form of Vice President Joe Biden's statement that Israel as a "sovereign nation" will decide for itself how to deal with Iran."

And the "deciding" seems to be a nuclear based decision. I am dismayed (to put it lightly) that Israel will possibly start a war with Iran over Iran's supposed nuclear ability, while Israel can, apparently with immunity, stockpile their own nuclear weapons.

CBC reported this evening that Saudi Arabia is going to allow Israel to use it's airspace to attack Iran.

This will also intensify pressure to crush the reform movement which will be seen as aiding USRAELI designs to weaken Iran

Interesting, as it seems that  big oil, gas and mining has consolidated their global hegemony and are now willing to act with impunity against all the people's of the world.

Quite evident? Not at all, and actually as I repeatedly mentioned here, the situation was the exact opposite: Toward the end of the June 15 rally, some bassijis started shooting at the remaining people randomly from buildings nearby. The plainclothes militia who had not dared attacking because of the size of the rally, came out and started beating up people. Protesters did not provoke violence, and your photo actually shows it. Why attacking an ordinary looking house among thousands if it was not the building from which shots were being fired on people? 

The building you see in the picture is not a police compound. It looks like any typical residential buildings in Tehran (as most Bassij bases are too). If you are referring to the fence, all houses in Tehran have them to prevent burglars. My father's house in Tehran looks a lot more fortified than that building in the photo.

No one denies that violence happened during the protests. We have 26 bodies as evidence! However as I repeatedly mention, protesters did not provoke violence. When they were attacked, they defended themselves. Reports from those who participated in the rallies confirm that too.

Regarding the photo of a "man with rifle", several Iranian bloggers have shown that it is a photoshop. The photo was published by two Iranian state news agencies, and the backgounds in those two photos were different! I will try to dig it and post  the link.

By the way so based on you view, the Israelis shooting at rock throwing Palestinian youth was not "particularly evidence of police excess" either, right?

You know, I am surprised to hear this from you. With this statement it will be hard for you in future to oppose any kind of police reactions to civilian protests, be it in Palestine, in anti-globalism marches, etc. Is this what you truly believe in, or you are just trying to play devil advocate?

a predictable and likely intended consequence of Biden's USRAELI threats

Iran's Revolutionary Guard Takes Command

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-iran7-2009jul07,0,5...

"Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, warned Western leaders against exploiting the country's political turmoil for their own ends...His speech, broadcast on state television, followed US Vice President Joe Biden's comments yesterday that the US would not stop an Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities..."Even if the Islamic Republic leaders are at odds on certain affairs, they are united against the enemy as far as safeguarding the country's independence is concerned," he said.

As usual the US/Israel come to the aid of hardliners in Iran. No surprise there. The surprise is about those who still believe this regime is still anti-imperialist. Khamenei needs Israel, and Israel need him.

"The surprise is about those who still believe this regime is still anti-imperialist. Khamenei needs Israel, and Israel need him."

thanks sanizadeh. these sentences suggest that 'imperialism' can be understood in a broader sense to include those who, any who, start to ratchet up dynamics that inevitably lead to more (what would be a good word here??) elitist control and power over people and planet.  Current Iranian leaders can say they're against US/Israeli imperialism, but the way they act simply entrenches that reality.  It does remind me of Stalin vs. western leaders earlier, and Harper's posturing about Russia- this (intentionally) functions to reinforce what they say they oppose.  Then deals are made behind the scenes that are no good for people on the ground, in any country.

Canada Uses G8 Summit to Touch Iran

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14255

"Canada is reportedly to use the upcoming Group of Eight summit to push fellow industrialized nations to forge a unified position on Iran's nuclear program. Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is to take the issue to the G8 summit in a bid to "come out with a coherent position to deal" with Tehran..The spokesman went on to label the Islamic Republic as an "extremely dangerous" "serious threat, which possesses a nuclear proliferation program with a clear objective."

No Sign Iran Seeks Nuclear Arms: IAEA

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14248 [50]

"The incoming head of the UN nuclear watchdog said on Friday he did not see any hard evidence Iran was trying to gain the ability to develop nuclear arms.."

Where is the magazine? This looks like a staged photo to me.

Zionist Duet - Cotler and Dershowitz - 'Iran Must Be Held Accountable'

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1677908

"Irwin Cotler, special counsel on human rights and international justice to the Liberal party, and co-author of this piece is introducing a private member's bill in Parliament today called the Iran Accountability Act (IAAC)."

Barack Obama offers to scrap missile shield in return for help from Russia with Iran

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6662885.ece [53]

I don't think that's a gun that shoots bullets. It looks more like a launcher for tear gas canisters to me.

Canadian MPs supporting of human rights in Iran

Light a candle! [56]

A petition to protest against repressions in Iran [57]

On that latter point, see here [58] [via NIAC's blog [59]].

Tear gas dispensers will have a larger barrel.  It looks like a mock up of a HK MP5, without the long magazine.  Either way, the weapon in that picture is useless for anything but a prop.

MPT9Smm

The submachine gun MPT9 cal. 9 mm is an automatic weapon and can be used for either single and bursts selectively from all shooting positions. The weapon is loaded directly with pressure of power gas and its barrel cooled with air. Cartridges are fed from 30 round box type magazine, in order to carry the weapon easily and better usage it is usually equipped with retractable butt stock, if required it can be replaced with fix butt stock.

http://www.diomil.ir/en/aig.aspx

Sorry crossposted with SJ.

It is an MP-5 knock off.

Is Israel Already at War with Iran?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=8030578&page=1

"Israel may have already started a war against Iran's nuclear program - experts believe Israeli security forces are hacking into Iranian networks."

A Safe Nest for the Seeds of our Hopes

http://revolutionaryflowerpot.blogspot.com/2009/07/safe-nest-for-our-hop...

"What has been happening over the past months in the streets of Iran, leaves no doubts among skeptics that the people know best what's in the best interest of their own country.."

Beyond Mousavi - The Movement of the Iranian Masses

http://hopinewsfromiran.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/beyond-mousavi-the-move... [65]

"the post election demonstrations were by far the greatest challenge to the authority of the Ayatollahs' regime since it was established in 1979"

July 9th demonstrations on Twitter here [via NIAC's blog [67]]

July 9th is the 10th anniversary of the pro-regime plainclothes militia attack on Tehran university in 1999.

Reports coming in from Tehran indicates demonstrations and clashes with police in most neighborhoods in Tehran, in particular around University of Tehran and Amirkabir University in central Tehran.

There are also reports of protests and clashes in the cities of Shiraz, Tabriz, Mash'had and Babol.

Andrew Sullivan's The Daily Dish is also putting out information: here and here [70] and here [71].

There will be updates as more news comes through, I'm sure.

The Daily Dish links are excellent - thanks

Iran Protests Flare on Anniversary of 1999 riots:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/09/iran-student-protest-crackdo...

"protesters are shouting, Allah Akbar [God is greatest!] in other streets near Enghelab Square. The interesting point is that the government don't have enough people this time in streets because they have to control provinces as well, as today protest is not limited to Tehran and is also taking place in other big cities."

"Electoral Fraud" and the movement in Iran today"

http://www.marxist.com/interview-with-iranian-socialist-electoral-fraud-...

"...What is definitely incorrect is to call our Great Revolution of 1979 an "Islamic Revolution." It was not. It was a popular revolution against the monarchy and for Freedom and Equality which was hijacked, with the help of western governments, by the reactionary Khomeini and mullahs. You have to remember that Political Islam would have had no real chance to take power in Iran if it had not been for the aid of western governments. They found this dead corpse in the dustbin of history and brought it back to life because they realized its anti-left and oppressive potential. This wasn't and isn't about Mousavi anymore. Even voting for Mousavi wasn't about Mousavi! It is about a huge population that hates life in the Islamic Republic and is willing to fight it step by step. What we have is no longer a movement against "electoral fraud", but a massive revolutionary movement against the Islamic Republic in its entirety.."

Thanks for the Arash Azizi's interview. Here is another point of view. It comes from the ground as well and illustrates the complexities of Iranian society. It, too, offers an interesting viewpoint although I would have liked to read a bit more about the minorities, for example, the one mentioned in the blogpost quoted: the Baha'i faith community [75].

The Tragedy of the Left's Discourse on Iran

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/21948

"The electoral coup and the subsequent uprising and suppression of the revolting voters in Iran has prompted all sorts of analyses in Western media from both the Right and the Left..."

Indeed a good article, NoDiff. You may have come across Louis Proyect's take on that issue. Heart-wrenching!

It is also quite telling that most of the pro-ahmadinejad articles on mrzine.org are written by non-Iranian authors. You hardly find any Iranian activist who is in doubt about the situation. You'd wish those on the left who are pro-Ahmadinejad, at least talk to their Iranian comrades.

Having done so, it seems Mousavi has receded far into the shadows of this thing.  Not many appear to be putting themselves on the line for his electoral pipe dreams.  He was a brief spark that has now gone out for the most part, but it was just enough to catch the existing tinder, which was looking for any excuse at all to combust.  Attempting to appropriate the extreme discontent paints more of a pathetic figure than before.  This appears to be more about youth, and women, seeking something no establishment reformist has the solution for, justice and freedom.  For those that desire it at all costs, they are more than capable of simultaneously ignoring outside machinations and conducting internal dissent, as befitting any sovereign people. 

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4618

Marxists Must Stand Firm Against Ahmadinejad - An Open Letter to the Workers of Venezuela

"...the capitalist government of Iraq has no fundamental disagreements or contradictions with US imperialism. It is in a 'cold war' with America and when it receives enough concessions, it will quickly enter into political dealings with the US and will turn its back on you. Indeed, the Iran regime has already helped the Americans in their military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq..'

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/4618

Marxists Must Stand Firm Against Ahmadinejad - An Open Letter to the Workers of Venezuela

"...the capitalist government of Iran has no fundamental disagreements or contradictions with US imperialism. It is in a 'cold war' with America and when it receives enough concessions, it will quickly enter into political dealings with the US and will turn its back on you. Indeed, the Iran regime has already helped the Americans in their military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq..'

Yes, it is over-reaction to shoot people who are throwing stones, especially crowds of teenagers throwing stones at military personnel who have no legal right whatsoever to be in the occupied zones in which they are operating, generally speaking. However, if someone where trying to burn down the building I were in by throwing molotov cocktails at it, I might start shooting at or near people who were throwing said molotov cocktails.

You explanation for the events at the police HQ are interesting but at odds with the videographer who took the footage that was later shown in part at by Channel 4 (ITV) in the UK. He described it as an "attack" against the police HQ. That said, throwing rocks and even Molotov cokctails, and even shooting people can be a legitimate act of defiance and insurrection in the face of opression. But that is beside my point. It seems quite evident to me that people were enaging in acts of insurrection that clearly threatened the lives of the persons who were occupying the building on behalf of the state.

They were trying to set the building on fire with people inside of it.

I am still waiting for the obigatory discussion about the use of violence toward a political end. When such violence occurs in the west, we are usually treated with a very detailed examination of the means of protest, in terms of violence and non-violence. Gandhi and MLK are regularly invoked, and we are asked to obligingly denounce insurrectionist elements who try and forward the struggle through violence means.

Even you were quick to agree with Adam T. when he invoked the spectre of anarchist elements stirring the pot, when the discussion turned to rioting in France in 2005, and recently in Greece, and at the G-20 summit in the UK.

Not one single thread of these numerous Iran threads has been derailed in this manner yet. In general, in the case of Iran, people uniformly accept the prima facie that any acts of violence were instigated by the authorities in all cases, and that all protestor violence was in reaction to unjustified use of force, and even its seems willing to come up with counter-narratives that directly contradict the narratives of those who were there, such as the videographer who called the incident at the Basiji HQ an "attack" against the installation. This is quite astonishing in the light of the fact that it seems there were several verifiable deaths among Basiji militiamen -- no police officers were killed in France in 2005, none in Greece, and none even mildly wounded at the G-20 summit. The absence of this pacifist counter-narratives, on these threads, ones that seem benign, but actually implicitly reinforce the state narrative that de-ligitimizes protest movements in the west, when they occassionally involve violent incidents (generally attributed to the protestors and not the state) is quite striking.

No. The real tragedy of western leftist discourse on Iran, is the failure to see, or talk about, the parrallels between western norms of political power as they are manipulated through the electoral system by the elite, and the Iranian electoral process, which does the same, but framed in a different ideological motif.

Bishra, it seems, sadly, is merely applauding the creation of a sham election process in Iran, as if sham election processes in the west are to be emulated. But then for a Palestinian, even a modicum of control over the conduct of policy, even the Pepsi/Cocacola challenge might seem like a kind of freedom -- at least it is some kind of "civil society" as opposed to outright martial law day-in day-out. The number of "leftists" who regularly endorse the NDP in Canada, and who haplessly clambered onto the "hope and change" Obamawagon, seems to indicate that such failings of insight are not uncommon at all.

In a western context, one has to be very cautious about narratives that are being manipulated here to further the propaganda needs of the power structure that needs an absolute "evil" enemy other in order to justify its own supression of liberation movements in territories where it is the reigning authority, the west.

The same "prop" used by the Iranian police, which is under license to Defence Industries Organization of Iran. A good thing that Iranian police only carry props.

I'd be inclined to believe that theirs at least would be functional, complete with a loaded magazine protruding from the housing.  Unless of course times are tough all around, with ammunition being rationed to where they are reduced to loading single cartridges one at a time into the firing chamber.

Ahh, I see that is your point. One would hope so. I would imagine it was thieved from some unlucky Iranian police officer. In that case one wonders what Iranian police officers would be doing walking around doing crowd control without ammunition, unless of course they were using them as props.

That said, in the photo, the guys hand is crooked in such a manner that one could imagine he is holding it over a magazine that might not be visible. Perhaps long magazines are not standard issue. It also might be the Airsoft MP5 Paintball gun. One really has to question why someone would bring an unloaded gun or a toy gun to a demonstration with real live armed police.

That said, some people really are that stupid.

The mags only come in one size for that particular model.  It would protrude well below his hand.  Without it, the weapon itself does not have the capability to house more than one round at a time.  Essentially what we have there is a weapon, if that is what it is, that has no more functionality than a musket from the 1700s.  After each shot, a replacement projectile is required to be loaded into the breech in order to be fired again.  Not at all effective in a crowd situation, regardless if one is a police officer, or a protester intent on confronting the police.  If personal protection or offensive intent were captured in that picture, it's effectiveness would result in little more than the comfort one could achieve in a security blanket.  The other conclusion as to the possible intent was mentioned upthread.

I don't really know what might or might not be available for weapons licensed for production by the the Defence Industries Organization of Iran, however short magazines are common for all kinds of weapons, and magazine alterations are something of a cottage industry, given how simple it seems to be. I imagine DIO (Iran) is more than capable of making such alterations.

There is this for example: 

Double capacity short magazine available at WolfArmy for $16.99 $US

It is even conceivable to me that the Iranian government would not want to have their police armed with the maximum amount of ammo, precisely because they might use it situations of "civil" unrest. Such hardware restrictions are common for police forces.

I certainly have no objection to the theory that the photo is a government fake, but on the other hand -- its an excelent fake therfore, complete with fake demonstrators, a mass of people in the background and refuse strewn all over the place. Indeed, such a fake suggests a high degree of forethought, planning and quality of execution, that seems to me at odds with the obvious surprise and disorganization, as well as bad media management of the whole affair by the powers that be in Iran. IMO, one looks to the simplest explanation first, and that is pretty simple: This weapon belonged to one of these hapless, and badly trained Basiji guys who met his demise at the hands of demonstrators, and this weapon was "liberated" at that time.

From what I'm hearing, undoubtedly pent up repression is being released in the street.  To the extent that some of it, or perhaps even some of the worst of it may be found to have an external origin, of that we can safely draw the conclusion that it occurring to some degree, however to gauge the extent of it's influence in the midst long held aspirations, and the complexities of Iranian society, is at best conjecture.  Whether the police actions are in response to the violence being conducted against the state, or in reaction against open public dissent of any variety, the precedence for brutality exists against all methods of unauthorized expression.  Obviously, it is unavoidable to detect a certain amount of posturing in treating the entire situation as repression against peaceful protest.  Clearly though, repression is what it is, and Iranians are well within their rights to determine the response to it.  Beyond that, it isn't much of a challenge, for some at least, to separate western propaganda from legitimate aspirations.

Louis Proyect, the Unrepentant Marxist, had a blog entry, following the election in June, regarding German neo-Nazis "praising the reelection of Ahmadenejad".  Here is the original source [91]. Says Proyect: "My main goal in posting this was to tweak the pro-Ahmadinejad leftists who are always bringing up George Soros et al support for the reformists in Iran. I think it is best to leave the cheering squad element aside."

Neo-Nazis views are completely irrelevant.

The leadership of the Tudeh Party noted the following on July 6 ...

And the assessment ...

The following is also of interest ...

I can't think who he means other than Chavez in Venezuela. In fact, specific reference is made, later in the piece, to Venezuela. There is a LENGTHY section on this issue that makes very interesting reading. The author is blunt!

There's more on assessing the Iranian regime's anti-imperialist credibility ...

On the USA connection ...

Those are scare quotes around 'Satan', by the way. :)

The author cites ruthless privatization, IMF and World Bank economic atrocities supported and implemented by the Iranian regime, attacks on labour and trade union organizations, the entire kit-bag of neo-liberal atrocities and horrors ...

The author calls to keep the flag of support for the movement of the Iranian people raised. A very well written and clear piece of writing.

The following is a link to a .pdf file. In Defence of the Movement of (the) Iranian People for Democratic Rights and Freedoms.

Fair enough, if one were talking about what is western propaganda, and suggesting that events were in the main instigated by western conspirators. That strawman aside, what I am talking about is events that are taking place that are being manipulated and used as propaganda aimed at distracting peoples attention away from what is going on in the "west", as if the reaction of the "intollerant" Iranian state toward expressions of dissent is of an entirely different order than the repression of dissent in the "tollerant" west.

To say that events are useful for a particular propaganda purpose, is not to say that they did not take place, or that they were instigated by those who benefit from that propaganda.

In other words, not that forces in Iran are being manipulated by western powers toward their own ends, at least not directly in any significant manner, but that unrest in Iran is being manipulated toward the end of positing the events in Iran as exemplars of what defines our superiority and the rightness of "our" cause that serves the dual purpose justifying our right to supress forces of dissent in the west in very much the same manner as the Iranian government is doing now, and justify a continuing campaign of isolating regiemes such as the one in Iran, which firmly remain outside of our domain of control.

I had hoped that our analysis might actually move beyond the blind dichotomy of support for insurgent forces in Iran, and the propaganda line of the Iranian government, where all such disturbances are a direct result of outside influences. More importantly, I had in mind a discussion of the west, and the attitude of authorities here to dissent, in comparison to the methods being used in Iran. Not for the purposes of talking about Iran, but for the purposes of talking about the "west." Such distinctions may not be possible it seems.

Looks kind of "posed" to me.

Let me know the next time we have a discussion about a photo of some Hamas militant carrying fire arms, and we spend half a thread dissecting how it is we can tell that the photo is faked and that the presumed militant is actually a Shin Bet operative, disguised as a Palestinian militant carrying a fake AK-47.

There were some minor inferences and idle speculation, distractions really, in discussing the weapon and superimposing it as evidence in support of either theory within the overall context, when it is superfluous to the extent that although it may tell of a thousand words, or points of conjecture as it were, splitting off 500 words apiece and going off from there about it really serves no meaningful purpose.  There was a technical point or two up for grabs, which again its left more or less to ones respective point of view and experience as to what it represents.  

If your point is to discuss western dissent and how it is managed and ultimately contained through the collective efforts of the dominant apparatus, I'm at odds to see how you can manage to splice such an encompassing subject in its own right with a discussion of Iranian protests, in a thread designated as such without appropriating the space entirely with it. 

I believe it is fair enough to say that both forms of government are representative of a two headed coin to use an analogy, with similar features on either side, where the respective facings that Iranian and Western citizens get to see is not so much a matter of geography, but in who is flipping the coin on our behalf.   Western hegemony's perspective, their incessant issue since 1979, is that they are not the ones calling it in the air for the Iranian people as well.

Certainly, the examination needn't be confined to blind dichotomies as you put it.  In focusing from an outside perspective though, while remaining fixated on the outside for answers and culprits, I believe that important dynamics can be overlooked or disregarded in the course of framing it to support the argument.  From what I can gather, which I can only narrowly interpret from discussion with intimate contacts in two cities there, it isn't about election sour grapes, or about support for a dissident cog in the existing apparatus.  It is about ordinary people passionately facing up to their oppressors, on their terms, at great peril.

Undoubtedly, if western citizens were truly to ever wake up in significant numbers to the reality of our own facade, and took to the streets with a similar determination borne out of same sort of desperation that occurs in circumstances where reality and hope are normally only spoken of in whispered conversations, we would see people killed, beaten and arrested by the police.  In fact, we've seen it already in past, in localized situations.  For one reason or another through lingering hope or utter delusion, as witnessed in the enigmatic NDP threads, our society has become adept at creating and swallowing whole the falsifications which only function to contain that which has been alternately placed on display in the Iranian streets.   

A more genuine western orientated discussion in this context would surround the lessons we might take from the motivations of Iranian protesters, and why such admirable things do not occur in a society where reality television is about as close as we'll ever get to the definition.

Against A New Wave of Crackdown and Oppression in Iran

http://revolutionaryflowerpot.blogspot.com/2009/07/against-new-wave-of-c...

Tomorrow is the Friday prayers in Tehran and the sermon is delivered by Rafsanjani, a powerful broker in the system who hates Ahmadinejad, for the first time since the election. He was scheduled to deliver the sermon on June 19 but Khamanei decided to give that sermon himself. Mousavi and other opponents of Ahmadinejad are supposed to attend. The Friday Prayers have typically been a stronghold and base for ultrareligious supporters of the govenment, so a show down is likely.

The Rape of Taraneh: Prison abuse of Iran's protestors :

The overall tenor of this huffpo story, not only does it paint a rather disturbing picture, and deservedly so, of the Iranian regime's brutality against it's own people, [although not unlike other regimes where we have established good trading and diplomatic relations] it also contains some rather questionable observations about Iranian society and it's people.  In particular, it demonizes Iranian society through it's description of the lack of empathy within families for victims of the Iranian regimes violence as being somehow 'traditional.' 

I get a sense that stories such as this, where ignorant descriptions within the media of the larger society are embedded within 'concern' articles, act as a trojan horse to cultivate negative imagery not only of the government, but the entire country.  It acts as another building block within the larger structure of propaganda, not unlike the incubator babies tale of the first Gulf War, where the public becomes conditioned to accept large civilian casualty rates should another western led regime change effort be undertaken, or perhaps a widespread bombing campaign where cities are targeted.

Which leads to the question of your motivation for posting it here Ghislaine,

Discussing media representations and how news becomes news and how it is transmitted to us and its spin is entirely relevant. Ultimatley what we have here is not a discussion based in relevant facts, and "objective" humanitarian standards, and issues of rights but one that is heavily weighted with ideological bias. I see no reason not to point it out.

As far as I am concerned the situation in Iran, from the perspective of a complete outsider, is slightly above the issue of a family feud, as best as I can make out when looking at the factions obstensibly in conflict, the Amedinejad camp and the Mousavi camp. Mixed in with this are other forces struggling for what seem to me to be worthwhile, but not quite clearly articulated ambitions that run the gamut and are probably best articulated as wide-spread discontent -- perhaps something more articulated will come to the fore in the near future, perhaps not. Perhaps the present establishement will bend to accomodate that discontent, or they will continue with a hard line, a view that will back them even further into a political corner that will certainly break the regieme, sooner or later.

The actions of the police forces does not seem to have been inordinately out of the norm of those set by most societies on the planet when the reigning authority is significantly challenged in any meaningful way. I come from a country where in my lifetime martial law was invoked in its territory, merely because 2 prominent politicians were kidnapped by radical fringe organization with little popular support.

Certainly. This observation is the first of its kind of any substance on any of these threads, and comes as a result of parsing media representations and the hypocrisy of the stand taken by most of the media in representing this struggle, and struggles elsewhere, as a means of casting the ideological foundations of our beliefs about ourselves in contrast to what we believe, or are led to believe, about others.

Iranian police clash with pro-Mousavi supporters

"Disburse" the rally? Oh well, CBC must have laid off proofreaders. Spellcheck just doesn't dew the job.

It isn't articulated to us whatsoever, which is to be expected when considering the suffocating nature of the baleful propaganda that is provided to us as factual at every turn.  Even dispassionate viewpoints can often be presented through the foggy lens of a perspective that attempts to analyze something seen as an 'exotic' situation, as if ones basic yearning for dignity and self determination is a separate thing altogether from another culture. 

Certainly, we can consider the variety of information sources that are available to us, partisan or otherwise, as long as we bear in mind that nothing can be measured in such monolithic quantities to the extent that a concrete interpretation can be cast from the dynamic motivational factors.  From what I can determine, some of the participants are simply fed up with being spoken down to, tired of being bound to conformity in a stifling reality, where absolutely nothing exists that promises to undertake the kind of compelling social justice reforms that addresses the demands of an evolving and complex society.  

An honest evaluation in that regard couldn't help but to expose the glaring similarities with our own circumstances, regardless of the deficient intensity in what passes for activism, or from the response that isn't required all that often, but is always ready.

Maybe the police jest paid theme too go om?

The proofthinkers were fired long ago.

Would MLK Back Iran's Protesters? http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/44568

"Testimony that the current unrest, is among other things, a backlash against government services to have-nots, comes from none other than the opposition's iconic leader himself. In gleeful remarks carried on July 5 online by the pro-reform daily Emryz, Mir Hossein Mousavi told a gathering of sympathetic academics, "Our society is quite different from what it was six months ago...The middle class has achieved a consciousness that, if channeled properly, is very constructive...The current [Ahmadinejad] administration has no plans for this class and the situation is hopeless.."

Rafsanjani Makes His Move

http://monthlyreview.org/mrzine/javedanfar170709.html

"By calling for the release of imprisoned protesters, Rafsanjani is hoping that the demonstraters will see him as their backer, and therefore that they should continue demonstrating. This is the most critical part of his strategy, to align himself with the people on the streets and to bring out  as many as possible..It must be noted that this is not about regime change, but rather, about leverage to be used in a domestic balance  of power politics.."

Reason to Worry

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/956/re61.htm

"Though Iran's regional star is in the ascendant, it is locked in the jaws of a far greater geostrategic struggle...Israel's lobbyists have once again found their voice on the US scene. For a while when Obama seemed intent on talking to the Iranians, they had little to say. Now its a different story. The election of the reformist Mousavi would have put a lot of pressure on Israel, preventing it from ostracizing Iran and ultimately lending a hand to Obama's reconciliatory approach. Clearly the US openness to Tehran would have come at a price. To Israel's chagrin, Washington would have bad to acknowledge Iran's regional role. This is exactly why Israel is exuberant now. Israel is not interested in whether Iran goes reformist or conservative, only that it remains weak."

Meh. Any regieme chosen by the Iranian people would still be victim to the pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey game, as long as it represented local interests, however corrupt, as long as they were outside of direct control of western interests. For example, regardless of Amednijad's dubious statements, the existence of an Iranian nuclear energy program would be enough to fan the flames of anti-Iranian propaganda. The opponents of Iran are just as capable of putting about outright lies about any leader of Iran, as they have been in putting about the lie that Zelaya Honduran referendum was about an extension of his presidential term.

Indeed they have often bodly misrepresented Amedinejad's statements to be much more malicious than they actually were, as dubious, stupid and impolitic they were in fact.

The fact that the US has been standoffish in its attitude is a reflection of the fact that they don't really care one way or the other who leads Iran, unless of course we are seeing a sea change in Iranian politics where the Iranian government becomes subservient to its interests.

Had the Mousavi camp succeeded in having the election results stayed and overturned, Zionist propagandist would no doubt have claimed Mousavihad pulled off a coup, if he did not show signs of following the correct agenda.

Revolutionary Road - Live blogging from Tehran - http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/2009/07/live-blogging-from-tehran.html

"Today, Friday 17 July, in various sections of Tehran we are again witness to mass demonstrations in Iran. There are reports that there are more than two million people giving slogan in the main streets and squares of Tehran. Some of the slogans are 'Down with Dictator', 'Free all Political Prisoners', 'Coup d'etat government, resign resign', 'Down with Ahmadinejad'.."

From the same link:

Rafsanjani: Iran in Crisis

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/07/200971793040418381....

"Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, the former Iranian president, has said that Iran is in "crisis".."

Obama's War Signals - Iran in the Crosshairs

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/07/16/obamas-war-signals/

"The evidence that Obama is ramping up the U.S. effort to encircle and eventually strike at Iran is building.."

Left is Wrong on Iran

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/956/op5.htm

"Who are and who promoted these leftist intellectuals who question the social uprising of the people in Iran...?"

In the name of fairness, here is As'ad AbuKhalil's response.

I've put together these few links on the ongoing protests in Iran. Hope you find them of interest.
• "Words to heed"
• The grand paradox [121]
• I was there [122]
• Prayers make history [123]
• "Hashemi, may God protect you!" [124]
• A poignant rap for Iran [125] [via Neo-resistance [126]]

And the Honduras affair is not?

What makes the situation in Honduras a greater abuse of human rights than in Iran?

Nothing in particular. I never said it was. This some sort of opression Olympics?Very simillar levels of moderate level repression are being used in both circumstances.

My main point about introducing the subject of Honduras, has been to highlight the weird divergence of the manner of coverage, and the ideological bent that determines how people are interpretting very simillar social upheavals in these two states, ones that are happening concurrently. The fact that they are happening at the same time really helps in exposing how much a persons ideological bias determines their take the issue of the abuse of human rights by security forces in both places.

Interestingly, but not suprisingly, some here who are up in arms over the apparent abuse of human rights in Iran, are bending over backwards to excuse the siezure of power in Honduras, and ignoring police violence, and the reapperance of death squads in the central American republic.

On the other hand, the question you ask is interesting. Zelaya, apparently was manouvering to have the Honduran constitution opened up for debate among the Hondurans toward the end of constitutional reform, on the other, it appears that Rafsanjani has now manouvered in such a way as to openly support Mousavi, and in this light one might ask: can we really pose that idea that Rafsanjani can be cast as "a liberator of his people?"

Please forward and circulate this information re: Hunger Strike At Queen's Park (TO) Saturday, July 25, 2PM

http://groups.google.com/group/supportiranresistance?hl

36 Army Officers Arrested in Iran Over Protest Plan

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/19/iran-army-officers-arrested

"Officers planned to attend sermon by former president Hashemi Rafsanjani in military uniform.."

Threatening Iran: http://www.countercurrents.org/roberts200709.htm

"The US, which has been threatening Iran with attack for years, has passed the job to Israel.."

Iran VP Nominee Mashaei Denies Quitting

http://televisionwashington.com/floater_article1.aspx?lang=en&t=1&id=122...

"the state owned Press TV network also reported that he had quit. However, in a statement posted on his personal website, Mashaei rejected the report as "lies". "This news is nothing more than rumours and lies, and this rumour was made up and spread by the enemies of the Supreme Leader and the state," said Mashaei.."

Iran's former president Mohammad Khatami asks for a national referendum:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/20/khatami-iran-referendum455.html...

Message to the International 'Left': "Stop Supporting Iran's Islamic Regime."
From The Iran-Left Coalition Canada:

"We are asking the Iranian regime’s defenders in the international left to show us any documents or articles by any major Iranian leftist organization or entity after 1986 that is in line with their current position of defending the reactionary, anti-worker regime in Iran as anti-imperialist and deserving support.

"We ask these comrades again, shall you not refer to the Iranian left’s literature and analysis for a true understanding of the Iranian regime? The experience has taught us that any regime which murders the communists, and the worker, union and human rights activists, can not be anti-imperialist.

"The anti-imperialist struggle can not be waged without the fight for democratic freedoms. Please support us in our cause by endorsing this appeal."

With some minor caveats, I happily endorse this appeal (which follows usefully from Saeed Rahnema's analysis), [135] which should come as no surprise (as in here [136], and here [137], and in the context of Afghanistan). [138] I am very happy to see the stupefaction [139] exposed and challenged by the Iran-Left Coalition, because it's long been my view that the corrosive effects of the reactionary 'left' [140] should be exposed at every opportunity.


Terry Glavin [141]

If the movement in Iran follows the lead of Glavin - that frenzied supporter of Israel and of the U.S.-NATO invasion of Afghanistan - it will swiftly go down the drain. Shame on you for linking such trash on this board.

That is interesting. What is also interesting is this call is made to the "left", as a general group. When we puruse most of the aforelinked to bloggery what do we find? We find quotes from "a British leftist" and so on and so forth. Who is "a british leftist"? These wild eyed attacks against unnamed persons amount to a stinking pile of straw shit.

Straw shit mind you, not to disimillar to the accussations made by many Zionist appologists who make undefined charges of anti-semetism against unamed "leftists" who are in league with antisemites, and so on.

Good criticism comes with names and quotes attached.

Galvin and yourself are only adding credibility to the claim that the Iranian movement for change is in the pocket of the Zionists, or at least serves its interests. The last thing they need is a pack of Zionists lining up to show their support for Mousavi.

Exactly.

The Case of the 'Fatwa' to Rig Iran's Election

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23118.htm

"The propaganda campaign to paint the victory of the incumbent candidate in Iran's June presidential election as having been a stolen one began early."

So the upshot of that is that the sole original source material "proving" that the election was fixed, was a single unattributed report based in hearsay about a "Fatwa" that comes from a blogger who clearly admits having "good connections" with the mousavi camp whose just recently launched blog "Tehran Bureau" is hosted at a domain name owned by an American named Jason, and that this unconfirmed information was rebroacast netwide, through other "reformist" web sources such as Rooz whose advertizer base prominently includes "WashingtonTV", another recently launched (May 2009) web source that lists its company PO Box Zip Code using a "special" Zip code designation used for single companies, and indeed the US military and other US government agencies, and is not associated with any specific location as is the case with most Zip codes, and that this unverified, unattributed bloggery went "viral" in all the mainstream western press?

Or did I missread some of the "connections"? It was complex.

Normally, one would require the head in hand tenacity of say, Peter Falk's Colombo, combined with the bumbling sleuth technique of a Clouseau to follow that trail.

Yes. Don't know what it really means. I never came to a conclusion about the outcome of the election. My gut instincts is that there is a good deal of rigging of elections in most places, so why not Iran? Wether it made the difference or not is another matter. That said there is a clear devide here, and apparent dissatisfaction that is wide spread and that remains, even if Amedinejad had a small or marginal lead. Even a split down the middle is bad if the one side is tenacious and overt in its reaction.

The reaction is what is important. Americans didn't seem to get hot over the chads, so they are complacent or gullible or don't really care. Iranians seem willing to put themselves on the line for this vote, and that is a serious issue even in the case that Amedinejad did slip in with a slight majority. Small majorities are hardly strong mandates, and so a fix to make the mandate look stronger is just as likely.

The strength of the reaction in a split society hardly gives the victor solid ground, and speaks of strong underlying forces that could undermine everything, especially if public opinion is devided more or less down the middle.

That said, I do think its highly probable that the US funnels money into anti-Iranian web resources that it likes using shell companies that purchase banner "ads". Why not? Seems as likely a trick as rigging an election.

I think you mean anti-Islamic republic, not anti-Iranian. The most active anti-government Iranian sites are weblogs that do not need much support. Rooz online (www.roozonline.com) is based in Netherlands and is operated by well-known Iranian journalists and writers who were forced out of Iran in late 90s and early 2000s. Most of them were either members of Khatami government or members of Iranian media at the time.

Closing for length.