Moderate Islam, does it exist?

My thoughts? Honey, you can't handle my thoughts.

But maybe you can handle my questions.

Moderate Judaism, does it exist?

Moderate Christianity, does it exist?

Yes. United Church of Canada

Now now.  This is the Islam bashing thead.  Judeo-Christianity i believe is scheduled the week after next Monday, and the Raelians will have to be somehow squeezed in before that, seeing as they'll be out of town soon.

Hmm. This "debate" is on a website sponsored by the Israeli government. Kinda weakens the credibility of any claims of even-handedness in such a "debate", eh? Wadda think, Dillon123?

I thought the giveaway was the Daniel Pipes reference. And, you know, the link to Shalom Life.

Islam has different sects and different tradtions among different people around the world, not to mention the degrees of devotion and adherence to practices that vary from person to person within each different region or sect.  So the question is much too simple minded to even answer.

Moderate Judaism = Reform Judaism.

I once almost talked an Ismaili Muslim into brewing beer at home.  I gave him a sample of my "Garbage Pail Ale," which piqued his interest.  We then went to the library and checked out brewing videos and brewing books, and I showed him my own basement operation.  His wife may have talked him out of it, though, for he never did get started.

...on that note, got drunk, at  a few social occasions with a Iranian Muslim karate instructor I knew, and my daughter's Persian girlfriend is a  fantastic surfer.

That sounds like a great debate!

It's always nice when both sides of an issue are represented.

I have lots of Ismaili friends who are far more moderate than some of the Born Again Xians I've met. Each of the three predominant religions that arose in the middle east have serious ethical problems in their teachings.  Murdering your enemies in the name of god is just the start.  Despite those problems they have each also had moderate versions evolve. I tend to see the three religions that rely on the "Old Testament" in its various versions as all having deeply flawed roots that are almost impossible to overcome despite the attempts by people of goodwill from each of those faiths. 

Does moderate imperialism exist is really more to the point within the context our violent world.

I'm offended that being moderate has been presented as good and desireable, that's my issue.

Fuck moderation!

P.S. Just remembered I'm a moderator. Damn it!

ya, do I hear you on this, as the born again Xians in the same community, I noted above, never went out and got drunk in a fun social setting, they, I guess, were too busy ripping off the province and the First Nations community and feeding them BS propaganda from the corporations who lined their pockets.

I love your sense of humour.  You were joking, right?

I dunno. Maybe it's a matter of perspective.   I think it's rather radical to invoke a supernatural being to explain stuff you can't figure out.   Radical being one of the more moderate words that sprung to mind.

Zbigniew Brzezinski said himself that Islam is what unites more than a billion people around the world.

The American CIA was first aided by Saudi princes and this US-backed military dictator in Pakistan [18] in purging secular socialist thought from Central Asia over the last 30 years.

This Pakistani news journalist [19] said that cold warriors in the west deliberately bypassed moderate Islamists in favour of the more dictatorial extremists when supplying them with billions of dollars in aid and weapons during the 1980s and 90s.

German Intelligence and the CIA supported Al Qaeda sponsored Terrorists in Yugoslavia [20] German BND - successors to Himmler's SS

And Sibel Edmonds [21] says that the American taxpayer has been funding the rise of militant Islam on the other side of the world for some time.

Nice edit, Godwin

Anduh? Anything to say about the thread topic of discussion? Team Gladio didn't arise out of thin air. They have a pertinent history.

I actually wasn't joking.

This is thread drift, but I think it's a good idea. And it's just for a paragraph.

In my immoderately humble opinion it's not a good thing to require a person, or a community, to be moderate. Being moderate has never changed the world. Is shaking up the status quo moderate? Is demanding workers rights moderate? Is fighting for increasing the minimum wage moderate? Is rallying and advocating for anti-discrimination policies moderate? Nope, and that's a good thing. This expecting of a "moderate voice" is in fact highly politically charged. Requiring a representative (now there's a moderate word) who is "someone" (anyone!) from the identified "other-ed" community say what the mainstream wants to hear is an act of systemic and individual oppression. 

Back to the thread topic. The "Good Muslim" (who says what Islamophobes in the West want to hear, see the link in the OP) versus  the "Bad Muslim" (everyone else) is a huge friggin' yawnfest. It's been trotted out to the MSM for almost a decade now and certainly had currency prior to that. I was hoping it was getting a bit tired, that maybe the trope was beginning to shift to "Groovy Muslim" vs "Nerdy Muslim" but alas, such dichotomies will have to be found in the various stories of Muslim friends of babblers. Ok, that last part was a joke. Should I sent you a memo when I'm making a joke, krop, just to avoid future misinterpretations?

I think Daniel Pipes' mind is a breeding ground for Islamophobic propaganda not so far removed from the ways in which Joe Goebells and Nazi era propagandists demonized Poles leading up to the attack on Poland in 1939.

Al-Qaeda was a CIA creation at the time of the CIA's and US Government's anticommunist jihad in 1980s and 90s Central Asia. Warmongering plutocrats were caught way off guard by the end of cold war and were stuck with a bunch of unemployed Islamic gladios on the payroll. What to do next?

Al-Qaeda = Al-CIA'duh (Canuckistani spelling)

Moderate?

As opposed to what?

Devout?

Literalist (which I much prefer to the word fundamentalist)?

Or is the criteria more along the lines of "acquiesent to capitalist interests in the west"?

Pot? Fidelesque diversion.

But the US Government has supported and continues to support the most radical fundamentalists who are actually small in number compared to the large majority of Muslims around the world.

I don't understand what she or Pipes is saying at all.  Does anyone?

Moderate????

Excessively liberal,perhaps???

Sorry Maysie I will likewise send you a memo when I attempt humour. I thought your comment was right on and my lame attempt at a joke was obviously misunderstood.

I think the next thread should be titled, Moderate US and Canadian Hawks: Do they exist?

Are their moderate Muslims???

Yes!There has to be!The whole faith can't be completely full of crazies!!!

Seriously,I think that the violence perpetrated on anyone who does not have a rigid fundementalist view of Islam(including other Muslims) is the obvious reason why moderate Muslims are afraid to speak out.I think one of the biggest problems with Islam is that it has not gone through a Reformation that openly questioned theological authoritarianism.The Reformation is Europe 500 years ago was extremely bloody,but over time,was a catalyst for a calming effect (notable exception being Ireland).This has not happened,at least to that extent,within Islam.If anything,many influential Muslims have gone inward and become increasingly insular.Tie this in with extremely bad governments,including Ba'Athists and their many pogroms,causing grinding poverty and you've got a recipe for collectivist violence...

Are you from the community you are so self righteously condemning?  Fascinating little history.  I am not sure I would call the history of Europe in the last 500 years as calm or calming for the rest of the planets inhabitants. 

In my opinion the "history" above is disgusting.

You have heard of The British Empire (where the sun never set), the Maxim Gun, The Great War, World War Two, the Holocaust, and thermonuclear weapons, haven't you?

If these are examples of "calm," I wouldn't want to see Christendom when it's riled up.

welder, your comments were what I was specifically hoping to avoid. But I suppose that was irrationally optimistic of me given the thread title and the link in the OP.

For the record, welder, I don't have enough time to parse through why it's not okay on babble to use the word "crazies" to describe any group of people. DON'T do it.

Please learn more about Islam before saying stuff like:

I feel icky just quoting that.

And now that the fun is over, I'm going to close this. I have no doubt the issue of Islam will come up again sometime very soon.