More Evidence that the Catholic Church is Evil

Glenn Beck is an American Joe Goebbels. His propaganda techniques are somewhat similar to those of the Nazis with helping Americans to visualize evil and "the enemy" In the extreme, Hitler's euthanasia programs for gassing cripples and the elderly and mentally challenged went against beliefs of the religious Catholics in Germany. Germans in general were conforming to rather than believing in the Reich's early programs for extermination of those deemed by the Nazis to have lives not worth living. One rabidly anticommunist Catholic bishop of Munster in Westphalia wrote letters to Hitler warning him that extermination of lives not worth living went against core Catholic beliefs. The Nazis realized that the religious beliefs of Germans were more deeply engrained than Nazism at that point, and Hitler put a stop to the exterminations in Germany for a period. Without those engrained religious beliefs, the extermination of handicapped and elderly Germans would have continued unchallenged by a population without morals whatsoever. Over time the Nazis intended to displace any and all religious beliefs with Nazi doctrinaire. It's not the same, but US health care has been described as favouring the strong over those lives not worth living.

In France, the propaganda was targeted at the very young who were thought to be part of the future of the Nazi German empire. Philippe Petain's Vichy regime taught French youth about a future when there would be no socialism and no communism, just strong people working and living for the good of the country. Posters of Petain's image were everywhere in France then and increasingly idolized by French youth. The resistance considered him a complete traitor.

Is Beck's propaganda targeted toward thinking adult Americans or just young Americans and future citizens of korporate Amerika?

Large movements within the catholic church have alligned themselves with fascist organizations, and they throw around the words social justice quite a bit. The theology of reconciliation is used as a means of "creating social justice" by these organizations that thwart leftist movements within and outside of the church.

Now that Glen Beck is against the Catholic Church, I may have to convert.

I'm not sure I even get Glen Beck.   I'll have to check it out.  A while back, several companies pulled their advertising from his show due to pressure from African American organizations.   Back then, that left only bumpers and Faux News advertising during his show for the most part, meaning, Beck wasn't bringing in any add revenue.   

If that's still the case, then we know for sure Beck is being allowed to spew his insanity because Rupert Murdock wants him to, and can't hide behind even the stinky excuse of his show making money.

Beck is awful.  But with that comment, didn't he just shoot himself in the foot with the Republican crowd?

Haha, not that I care.  Maybe TP is on the mark with Rupert giving up the cash for a good dose of Beck. 

Beck did top one most prestigious list:

http://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=1645

Religious Republican voters probably have no place in their plans for the future as it was in Vichy France and Nazi Germany. Conservatives of then and today are onlty required to conform to the ideology but not immerse themselves totally. Total immersion is for the current youngest and for future generations. Beck will be considered Goebbels-lite in comparison to propagandists of the near future. Like the Nazis did, they are already lying to Americans and Canadians that civilians in VietNam, and today in Afghanistan and Iraq etc are not targeted for murder by the army. And this is as much a lie today as it was for Germans with respect to Poles etc. Like Hitler once declared, our fearless leaders bomb and invade other countries for humanitarian reasons, or democracy or whatever the bullshit happens to be. Beck is a low level propagandist. Only children and the more soft-minded conservatives would believe his bullshit.

Who does not understand the antipathy of fundamentalist churches toward the Catholic church, and what is a propagandistic blurb from Fox about such a blatant attack by a monstrous, self-oriented and pathological belief system doing in this forum?   Are folks here so naive about the objectives of the  American evangelical movement?  Robertson is a moving force behind such filth.

There is now such a church movement in Quebec - but appealing to radical Catholic elements across Canda - that is related to the old Social Credit movement (wish I could remember the name of this publication). It appeals to folks like a Polish neighbour who still hasn't shaken the anti-semitic views of his Polish youth. But you also have strong social movements within the Catholic church that support anti-Capitalist, worker oriented organizations at the local level...there is such an organization at work in Waterloo Region of Ontario.

But such distinctions are not made by the folks at Fox.  We should make those distinctions here.

I'm in full agreement with GV's post #6.

I think what Beck is trying to say is that if the plutocracy is ever threatened by communism in future, capitalist fangs will be bared for all the world to see, once again. Capitalism is fascism with the mask on.

During a crucial period in world history, from  the 1930's to 1949, communism was the only effective opposition to fascist aggression in Russia and China.

And what's on the agenda today with "the grand chess board" scheme of things?  The military encirclement of Russia and China, of course.

Just not a commercial encirclement.  That's what China is doing to everyone else, Their hold on east Africa and the "Stans" looks a bit like the Raj at work in India, circa 1900.

Fidel:

"Is Beck's propaganda targeted toward thinking adult Americans or just young Americans and future citizens of korporate Amerika?"

And the churches?  Where do they fit in.... Ah yes, since he can't be targeting "thinking" Americans, it must be the vulnerable evangelicals, young and old. And others across that thoughtful land.

He doesn't seem to be singling out Catholics. He's attacking christian churches that preach social justice. (By the way, Glen Beck was raised Catholic and is now a Mormon.)

George, there are more than 1.3 billion of them in that country alone. Add India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, SE Asia, and a few more, and the numbers are way lopsided in their favour whether democracy is the rule or not. This is the economic system they were forced to follow. The capital road is the only road they can take without incurring the wrath of superimperialists here in the west. I think cold war imperialists neglected to forsee a situation where those countries would compete for dwindling world resources with our capitalist imperialists though. China was supposed to be ruled by their running dog Chiang Kai-shek and subsist as the Asian equiv of the Africa and just another thirdworld colony for the supply of raw materials and cheap labour(as it is now) but not the strong nationalist country that it is today. Their's were once the largest economies in world history. They will be again.

That's what I thought, Fidel, so I didn't understand the concern about their military encircelemt...

BUT,  back to the encircling churches.

Put this way, a US-led NATO military encirclement of Russia and China has nothing to do with future plans for democracy. Capitalist crises and wars of aggression go hand in hand. Capitalism is fascism with the mask on.

The Catholic Church has a lot of evil in it. Ratzinger was more concerned with crushing liberation theologists and promoting conservative sects than protecting children from pedophiles.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7060406.ece

Liberation theology was crushed by the 1980s. But I can't imagine the evangelicals ever taking such a tack as liberating the peasantry ....well, perhaps their souls....  I refer you to Gregory Baum's Catholics and Canadian Socialism: Political Thought in the Thirties and Forties for some background on the differences. Radical Catholic thought on the "left" today is simmering on hold.

And the use of "evil" as a descriptor should be left to those of Christian faith...Catholic or Calvinist in origin, don't you think?

Liberation theology was not crushed by the 1980s; in 1985, it was still being heavily attacked. It exists today, but it is still being crushed. I use the example of Peru. In the altiplano of Puno, Peru liberation theologists were removed by force no more than 2 or 3 years ago. Liberation theologists were operating a rather extensive program in a very marxist section of the country (not surprisingly, Opus Dei had an archbishop in the hot zone of the Shining Path in the 1980s and 1990s, and they currently have one placed in the other leftist politicized zone of Cusco that neighbours Puno).

As for evil, consider it my idiosyncracy and an adoption of Christianity's lexicon. I think a bunch of right-wingers who try and stabilize their interests and ultimately the colonial project by using religion are pretty damn evil.

Theologists do not carry guns.  Are you talking about the "products" of liberation theology, like the "maoist" fighters in the jungles of India? That's the last residue of Liberation theology's teachings that I know of today.  And what was the role of Opus Dei placed archbishops in Peru?? The plot thickens. (But of course who could love old Ratty Ratzinger the Nazi leftover.  )  The danger, j.m., is that of reducing complex questions to hysterical lines like "More Evidence that the Catholic Church is Evil", something straight out of the tabloids at the checkout counter.  Beelzebub is the historical source of "evil", and that feller does not exist.  The socially warped mind  is not "the devil's work", but a product of ignorance and religious superstition. I think we have to resist using the religionists explanation.

I think that if all religion was ended tomorrow, fascists would not be inconvenienced. They shalt commit mass murder and bombings and invasions and crooking taxpayers regardless. And they would still be incapable of feeling guilt or remorse.

I think you are addressing my minor digression over the fact that the right-wing is not surprisingly attacking any leftist bastion. Yes, there were no liberation theologists with guns, and that is a major misconception spread by the right. Funny enough, Opus Dei (now Cardinal) Juan Luis Cipriani, who disallowed the entry of human rights agencies into his territory's hot zone when they wanted to investigate military and insurgent abuses, said: "human rights are stupid" (another digression). The right-wing of the church has not had much interest in stopping violence against the left - whether liberation theologists or insurgents.

Liberation theologists were working in both Cusco and Puno in the 1990s, and still have an institutional presence in those zones as of today. It is no surprise that the prelatures have been taken over by Opus Dei, Lumen Dei and Sodalitium Vitae Christianae as a way to further thwart liberation theology. So, non-armed humble priests without guns have been working in the highlands much further past the 1990s period.

Even still, I will take the meaning of evil to mean something that is injurious and harmful, and I think that the reassertion of the colonial project is just that.

I think you don't understand the social role of religion, fidel.

The new conservative prelates are fighting a rearguard action against the invasion of evangelicals out of the U.S. , j.m. The role of the Jansenists in Voltaire's time when the Jesuits were letting down the church in the face of those early Calvinist incursions.

Ooops... Misread your message.

I have heard similar arguments made. The protestant/evangelicals are winning huge grounds as a result of the failures of the Catholic Church in the zones where Liberation Theology - Conservative Theology battles were fought, but also as a result of violent conflict and the lack of response of the church.

The evangelicals know how to promote the spirit of selfishness, Weber's protestant ethic.  And -bonus -  Jesus awaits the successful.

I think it's possible to corrupt just about any organization. The Boy Scouts,  the YMCA, Red Cross blood collection, economic theory taught in universities, and even governments can and have been corrupted in various examples.

But if it's democracy that's lacking in general, then why not admit it and deal with the real issues. Close down religion, and we still have a pre-existing problem that wants attention but never receives it. For exampe, I think that calling for divestment and sanctions against South Africa or Israel is a lot like playing whack a mole. It just never ends and tends to be a lesson in pointlessness. The left someday has to consider concentrating efforts toward abating the overall problem at its source.

It's a psychological need of the social critter Homo sapiens, fidel, that there be some goddam meaning to all this...needs of the biological entity that preceded political economy.

You watched that Saturday night on CBC,did'nt you?

Shamanism and religion were the beginnings of scientific research and still very much a part of us. And I think that attempting to prove or disprove the existence of a creator being or entity is a fool's errand and so do scientists in general. The odds are much better for democratizing the planet first and foremost, and I think both the political left and right have their own versions of global democracy in mind. And there is no such thing as pragmatic political liberalism or centrism. That way has been corrupted, and those people are only fooling themselves.

Thanks for calling me evil...

welder wrote:

You watched that Saturday night on CBC,did'nt you?

Love, Hate, and Propaganda hosted by Strombo.

Fidel wrote:

welder wrote:

You watched that Saturday night on CBC,did'nt you?

Love, Hate, and Propaganda hosted by Strombo.

 

I saw it too..

You have it bass ackwards, welder.  Follow the discussion again, more closely. I argued that "evil" is a descriptor that should be limited to USE BY those whose faith can conceive of a devil at work. See the difference?  And I understand the need for faith...in something.

Oh what the he... (heck, almost said hell.  Bad habits, eh?   )  

We could demand dissolution of the monasteries and make it happen tomorrow, and we might still be without democracy for centuries into the future. For a number of centuries in history, power chased money. Today the opposite is true. Iow's, we haven't advanced a great deal in terms of democracy. It's the democracy gap. Some say it;s more like a canyon. I think I'd sooner do crossword puzzles than play whack a mole with religion. It would be a more productive use of time and effort.

And again, Fidel, the problem is deeper than politics, but has to do with our capacity to function as harmless social animals, even though we have all sorts of role models out there in the animal world.

Dolphins for instance.

G'night.

I tried watching that for a few minutes.  It was rather pedestrian, plus the film editing was so jerky and "cable TV-ish" that I found it unwatchable.

Ya I know they should have titled it, Love, Hate, and Stromboganda,  and delved deeply into the wonderful consumer gadgets and labour saving tech that only could have arisen from benevolent capitalists investing in high stakes world war.  I just can't wait until our uberrich friends south of the border scoop up controlling share interest in the Ceeb. They'll turn it into a moneymaker for sure.

A few remarks:

A few liberation theologians did take up arms. Here's an article that will tell you a little bit about that. 

Liberation theology is still alive, though it's not what it was, not just in terms of influence but (to my mind) in terms of theory.

There are quite a few Christians who are neither Catholic nor evangelical and while they aren't much of a presence in North America or Europe, they are present in significant numbers in the global south. 

Thanks Rosa.  "Twas good back then.  And I guess I said no to fightin' theologians because for me they are not priests but philosophers of theology. They were rogue priests who also brought liberation theology to India . Those moderate Christians....South America or South Africa?

Beck is not going after just Catholics. He's an equal opportunity if your church talks about 'social justice' it's nazi/communist/socialist and you must leave it preacher. Even some leaders from his own professed faith group are raising there eyebrows at this one.

Here's some of the lastest on the Beckian Religious War of 2010.

In Spite of Glen Beck's New Threats, My Invitation to Dialogue Stands

Well maybe that's what he's after but that's not who is most into Beck according to the demographic surveys I've seen.

Think, older, (35 + with 50+ being the highest), mostly male, caucasian and with a college level or higher educational level.

 These types of demos are also mirrored in Tea Party participants as well and is promoted and cheerleaded by him.

“Yes, capitalism is an evil. It’s contrary to the common good. God will come down and eradicate it somehow.” - Catholic Priest Dick Preston, "Capitalism, a love story", Michael Moore

 Capitalism is “contrary to the Jesus who said ‘blessed are the poor: woe to the rich’. - Thomas Gumbleton, auxiliary Catholic Bishop, Detroit

And in Moore's movie, he shows a clip of the blithering idiot George W. Bush talking about how capitalism delivers social justice. Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath came to mind as I'm watching Americans being evicted from their homes in the film.

Well regardless of what Beck thinks German Catholics are not happy.

German Catholics fume at pope's silence

German Catholic groups have hit out at the pope's silence over a snowballing paedophilia priest scandal rocking his native country's Church.

--------------

One of those implicated is a boarding school attached to Regensburg cathedral's choir. The pope's elder brother, Georg Ratzinger, who ran the choir for 30 years, has denied all knowledge of sexual abuse.

On Friday the dioceses of Munich and Freising said that the pope, when he was archbishop there, had approved in 1980 giving a suspected paedophilia priest Church housing in the diocese for "therapy".

Two years later, by which time the pope had been transferred to the Vatican, the priest was given pastoral duties in the town of Graefing. He committed sexual abuse and was given a suspended jail sentence in 1986.

The vicar-general at the time on Friday assumed "all responsibility" for the "bad mistake". The priest concerned is reportedly still employed by the Church.

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi went on the offensive on Saturday.

"It is clearly evident that in the past few days there are some who have sought - with a dogged focus on Regensburg and Munich - elements to personally implicate the Holy Father in questions of abuse," he said.

"It is clear that these efforts have failed," he said on Radio Vatican.

"The Church's credibility has been badly shaken," said Wolfgang Thierse, deputy speaker of the German parliament and a board member of the Central Committee of German Catholics, or ZdK.

"The Church should be more honest and more severe with itself, and that goes for the pope too," he said on public television channel ZDF.

Senior Church figures in Germany meanwhile called for priestly celibacy to be reviewed, a tradition Benedict defended on Friday as a "the sign of full devotion" and of an "entire commitment to the Lord".

The Church "should reflect on whether there are ... conditions that favour abuse," the Sueddeutsche Zeitung daily cited ZdK head Alois Glueck as saying, citing loosening celibacy regulations as "one way".

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1027299

This stonewalling by top Catholic church leaders is only going to make matters worse for the church. The people involved in these coverups, which may include the pope himself, are no better than mafiosa.

Sean Brady: Catholic Leader Won't Quit For Serial Rape Coverup

DUBLIN � Ireland's senior Roman Catholic, Cardinal Sean Brady, said Monday he would not resign despite admitting he helped the church collect evidence against a child-molesting priest � and never told police about the crimes.

Brady, as a priest and Vatican-trained canon lawyer in 1975, said he interviewed two children about the abuse they suffered at the hands of the Rev. Brendan Smyth. He said both children were required to sign oaths promising not to tell anyone outside the church of their allegations.

Smyth went on to molest and rape scores of other children in Ireland, Britain and the United States before British authorities in neighboring Northern Ireland demanded his arrest in 1994. The Irish government of the day collapsed amid acrimony over why Smyth was not quickly extradited to Belfast.

Brady admitted his role in gathering evidence against Smyth because he has been named as a defendant in a current Dublin lawsuit filed by one of Smyth's female victims. Lawyers in that case unearthed records of Brady's involvement in gathering testimony from two Irish boys abused by Smyth.

Irish newspapers had identified the victims as a 10-year-old altar boy and a 14-year-old girl. But Martin Long, Brady's spokesman, told The Associated Press that both victims were boys.

Brady said it was the responsibility of his diocesan bishop, as well as the leader of Smyth's separate Catholic order of priests, to tell police. But he said the church didn't do this because of "a culture of silence about this, a culture of secrecy."

"Yes, I knew that these were crimes," Brady said. "But I did not feel that it was my responsibility to denounce the actions of Brendan Smyth to the police. Now I know with hindsight that I should have done more, but I thought at the time I was doing what I was required to do."

Smyth abused at least 90 children in Ireland, Britain and in U.S. parishes in Rhode Island and North Dakota from 1948 to 1993.

His Irish religious order, the Norbertines, gave him sanctuary in the Republic of Ireland in 1991 after one Belfast family told Northern Ireland police he had molested four of the family's children.

If the Catholic church was serious about addressing these crimes the pope would resign. Unfortunately that's just not gonna happen and the church hierarchy will remain in denial.

Pedophilia or ephebophilia, it's still a problem

All of this, let us not forget, from not just any organization, but one committed to doing God's work on this Earth.

And in an organization as big and hierarchical as the Catholic Church, of course, the buck stops with the Vatican.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1172497.html

I think Glenn Beck is a careful and methodical liar. Expert liars and propagandists in recent history have to have "an in" with the average person and to speak the truth some large percentage of the time in between telling "the big lies."  The big lie is usually always saved for emergencies and maintenance of the capitalist system in the US. Americans are really angry and frustrated with American plutocracy right now. The big lie is saved for such instances when the kleptocracy needs mouthpieces like Beck to tell Americans  that there are no alternatives to kleptocracy and American plutonomy. They hear the truth often enough from Beck that when he does tell "the big lie", many do not suspect that Beck is capable of lying to them. Yanks are saturated with lies and half truths every day of their lives. Most Canadians who've been to the US know this to be true of rightwing radio and TV and the newspapers in America.

The big lie is needed in America now more than at any time during the cold war. The big lie is that there are no alternatives to American plutonomy. It's time to brainwash millions against the red menace and any thoughts of real social justice and social democracy as promoted by very many Catholic bishops and priests for a long time. Socialism and anything with that word root in it represents a personal terror for the richest one percent of Americans and their hirelings in government and propaganda ministries.

Edge of reason: The lonely reign of Benedict XVI

 Fidel,  I agree with most of this post except that Beck is a careful and methodical liar. At least not in the way that he knows what he is saying is completely bogus and intellectually goes through the process of changing it to what he ends up saying.  He's just not that intelligent.  He actually believes and is quite sincere with his own analysis and because of the feedback he gets the confirmation he needs that he is on the right track. He lives within a confirmation bubble of his and others creation.  This bubble feeds back and forth within itself and gets crazier and crazier as time goes on.    He's in no way stupid though, where his intelligence does manifest is in his delivery. He does know how to talk to the average person and hit peoples emotional buttons. In this he is calculating and is quite good. 

Beck is useful to the powers that be and in this way is being used or put up with because of this usefullness.  I see him as one who is being manipulated as much as he manipulates and passes it down the line.  Plus he makes people money and as much as the ideas and propaganda are important money talks as well.  Even people on his own network think he's freaking nuts and out to lunch but that doesn't matter.  He's good for the bottom line.

Beck strikes me as playing a part of similar to a cult leader.  Avid Beckians are very cult like in how they approach him and talk about him.  They gush about his 'history lessons' and think he is one of the biggest intellectuals in America today.

Right now though some cracks are showing.  Lately Beck has done a few things that have begun to piss some of his followers off and in the wingnut sphere he's losing some of his shiny golden luster.   Not in the sense that people have come to their senses but that Beck isn't following the line that people want to hear which is even nuttier.   Last week he made some sort of comments about Geert Wilder and the European far right.  He basically said they were facist and people started screaming about how he didn't know what he was talking about and questions arose about his intellectual prowess.  That whole episode would have been funny if they were screaming about something based in some sort of reality.    Beck apparently is going over to the other side, being co-opted and as the theory goes it's because of the Islamist infiltration of Fox New Corp by the Saudis. The Eric Massa fiasco did his credibility in that quarter a lot of damage and he has to redeem himself from that.

To get some sort of understanding of the Beck phenomenon is to understand how much he is informed and confronted by the people who listen to him.  The higher up have expectations, his rightsphere peers have expectations and the lower downs have just as much. Due to the power of the internet they do have the ability to voice their kudos and displeasure.   He is expected to be a good mouthpiece and if he doesn't comply with the latest outrage of the day and confirm what people out there are saying then he is not being a good little boy.  As much as he creates the outrage he also responds to it.  He is both a leader and a follower.  He is also a competitor in the right wing talkosphere and blogoshere that informs a lot of what he does.  This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the bubble his mind lives in.  They feed back and forth on each other and if one of them steps to far out of line they start eating each other.  For example he and Malkin had a huge public fight last week over the Eric Massa affair which was a huge deal in that bubble world.  People took sides, went after each otehr and when the dust settled Malkin came out on top as the winner.  Apparently Becks intellectual ability just doesn't match up with the heft of Michelle Malkin's and with some he has to 'prove' himself to still be part of the club.

interesting oversight Eliza, thank you, what do you see occuring between on the ground  Evangelicals and Catholics in Canada?

 personally am happy  that a split is occuring between the Evangelicals and Catholics, it can only be good for the rest of us.

 I don't see this particular Beck line of thought as a Evangelical vs Catholic thing.  It's a 'liberal' vs 'righter wing' religious thing and includes lefter leaning evangelicals.  It also crosses into other relgions such a Judaism though Beck himself doesn't mention it in particular the ensuing 'discussion' has.   It's basically an attack on any form of moderate to lefter leaning religious thought that dares suggest that the 'gubmermint' or the state should have anything  or even has any responsibility  with enacting policies that have anything to do with 'social justice' or 'economic justice.'  It is another avenue to attack the left and left wing thought.   It's just dressed in religious garb.

    So helping a poor person by feeding him some soup with your own money is perfectly fine. Jesus would be okay with that.    Suggesting that the 'state' has a responsibility for creating a system where that poor person doesn't need the soup or even provides soup giving programs is not fine.   That's Marxist. That's communist. That's socialistic.  That's the redistribution of wealth.  Taxes in this regard are 'charity' and forced charity.   That is religious heresey and therefore right wing heresey as well.  It is also evil.  Hence the references to Nazi and Communists supporting 'social justice' because as we all know those folks were/are plain evil.   That's all the proof you really need.   It's similar to the 'logic' used to equate healthcare reform with Nazism.  Naziss did government run healthcare ergo when you put your critical thinking hat on, the obvious conclusion is that since Nazi's are bad, government healthcare is bad.    It sounds ridulous but this type of logic works and people buy it hook line and sinker because as they are being taken through this exercise in 'critical thinking' the notion that this is 'critical thinking' is enforced and talked about.  Since critical thinking is a good thing then its just accepted without a whole lot of thought.   Add in the blathering that anyone else who disagrees isn't as smart as you and is out to get you and you've created a perfect self enforcing bubble where you can pretty much say anything and people will believe it because it 'just makes sense.'   Beck is really good at this.  He even uses a blackboard when he's 'teaching' this stuff.  He also is a guy who is on the road to discovering just how deep the whole evil goes and is sharing his voyage of discovery.  He's just an average guy who is suffering like everyone else.

 Anyway the 'liberals/commie/marxist/socialists' have infiltrated the Churches and it's time to fight back.     Beck is trying to warn people that they are being taken in by this conspiracy and is just doing his job of illuminating what the words being used mean.  He's teaching people about 'liberal/marxist (in Beck world these a pretty much the same now) code words because he understands the truth of it.   They want an 'nanny state' we all know what that means because we've covered this topic many times before.

 There is also a dose of prosperity doctrine type thinking thrown in there.  The poor, the downtrowden and oppressed are as they are by the will of God.  It's their fault and if they would just get with the 'right' (pun intended) religious program then they would see their fortunes increase.  It's just a relgious language translation of very typical righter wing thinking.  If people don't suceed it's an individual failing, they didn't work hard enough, they're failures in the eyes of the market/capitalist God.  It's their own damn fault and any government intervention or 'help' is interferring with God/Market/Capitalism.   

Beck approaching it from a religious standpoint is new, however whats behind it isn't new at all.

The Catholic Church is the only institution that survived the Roman Empire.  It has been a force for evil in the world for millennia now so why is it any surprise that Pope Rottweiler turned a blind eye to something that has existed in the Church for ever. 

As for liberation theology it is my understanding that the Sandinistas government of Nicaragua throughout the 1980's were heavily influenced by that theology and its proponents.  So saying it had disappeared by 1980 is clearly not accurate.

The murder of Romero in 1980 was a major event but it did not immediately end the movement.

Romero was not a liberation theologist, per se. He is labelled one due to the positions he took, despite being appointed as a conservative archbishop.

True but as soon as he started to preach from the same hymnal he was assassinated. If he had always been one he would never have been made Bishop.  He paid the price for having his eyes opened to the injustice.  For those that don't know liberation theology is often closely tied to certain sections of the bible that deal with siding with the poor against the high and mighty.  

U of S used to have an excellent undergrad history course in Latin American history.  The professor was great and we studied liberation theology quite extensively but that was 15 years ago.  Hopefully the same course has been updated and is still being taught.

I took courses in Liberation Theology from the Toronto School of Theology while enrolled at Trinity. I was an organizer who brought a LT professor to Toronto - in the 1970s. His name escapes me now, but I have it in my files.

By the way, did anyone look at the link I posted?

Edge of reason: The lonely reign of Benedict XVI

I had a professor in my undergraduate that knew quite a bit about liberation theology, but that was never really incorporated into the formal learning experience.

As for Lib. Theology today I know that there is still the Institute of Bartolome de Las Casas, and I recently met a representative of Centro de Estudios y Publicationes (CEP) in Peru, which publishes Liberation Theology materials. Unfortunately most of this is in Spanish.

I still have a library of Liberation Theology from the 1970s and 80s, some of which are English translations from Latin and Spanish.

He doesn't have to be intelligent or deal in facts all of the time. Beck is just another Limbaugh clone. And they are legion in America, and they have control of the radio station microphones and expensive CATV broadcast time. Robert kennedy Jr said that somewhere more than 90 percent of radio and CATV broadcast stations, news print etc are privately owned and controlled, and that takes money. And Americans are bombarded by the rightwing message 24-7/365.25 non-stop. There are few real leftwing points of view competing for space in the minds of Americans. Like it was for US car and other industries in the years immediately after WW II with Germany and Japan devastated by bombs and massive loss of life, rightwing propagandists have zero competition today for the hearts and minds of Americans. The financial system favouring a relative handful few billionaire oligarchs makes it easy for them to own and monopolize "the truth."  Capitalism is about monopolizing more than just entire industries - it's also about monopolizing the news media and people's minds.

As it was for very many people who had little else to tune-in to than Lord HawHaw and Tokyo Rose and Goebbels, they tell just enough truth to gain the confidence of their listeners. They are confidence men and women.  They don't care if you think they are full of baloney, because they have captive audiences of millions and we don't. The premise of the big lie, according to Hitler and Goebbels, is that if it's a large enough lie and repeated often enough, people will believe it. Right now the rightwing radio and TV propagandists are agreeable with the average person in the US that the kleptocracy is appallingly greedy but that there are no valid alternatives to plutonomy.

 Fidel could you clairfy you're last sentence?  I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

It's a way for propagandists like Beck to gain the confidence of Americans who listen to his propaganda. Americans are not always conned so easily, for example with being propagandized against Obama's "socialist healthcare" proposals. Most Americans have fallen for that propaganda. But the right has a much more difficult task with brainwashing Americans into believing that socialism for Wall Street is necessary and good for America. Most Americans aren't buying into that propaganda. And so the propagandists like Beck have to concede a little territory to the average American wrt the obscenity of Wall Street financing their own bailout money with taxpayers on the hook for it. Every con man knows how to gain the confidence of his mark in order to pull the wool over their eyes. Beck is a con man extraordinaire. He knows exactly what he's doing. There is a saying that this or that person is crazy like a fox. Beck works his audience like a fox for sure. Very many Americans trust what Beck has to say, because in very many instances his opinions are their's and vice versa. When he needs to put the big lie to Americans, they've been prepared well beforehand to accept it.

Communicating Through Anti-Communist Propaganda For American Youth: A Key to Understanding the American Perspective During the Cold War

This is a bit of a cop-out, to say the least.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7062387.ece

That's great. If only right-rightists would take permanent unpaid holidays, the world would be a better place.

This is now a runaway train and it appears there is nothing these people haven't done.

Sex scandal hits Brazilian Catholic church

http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/03/17/13256616.html

I was the student representative for the Ecumenical Forum of Canada in 1978, and I was responsible for bringiing the esteemed Liberation Theologian Jose Miguez Bonino to give the J. Lovell Murray Memorial Lecture at Innis College on February 21, 1978. Bonino is the author of Doing Theology In A Revolutionary Situation (Fortress Press, 1975) and Christians and Marxists: The Mutual Challenge to Revolution (Ecclesia Books, 1976).

By the way, here is an interesting article on Pope Benny: Edge of reason: The lonely reign of Benedict XVI

As a survivor of abuse from a catholic priest after being raised in a devout catholic family it is my belief that sex with adolescent boys is and has been a part of the culture of the priesthood for centuries throughout out the church.  The predator that seduced me was promoted from Vice Principal to Principal after the complaints had started and when there were finally too many of them they transferred him. 

His defence in a letter of "apology" to me was that in the 50's and 60's no one understood the damage a little fun with the boys could do to a young person.  Seriously he wrote that too me but he didn't say a little fun with the boys.  To escape him I went to a catholic boarding school where I was left alone because the priest I got as a mentor there was a good man but I saw the closed doors when the Head Master was meeting with his Best Boy. The fast track to a good position in the church has always been through connections made with powerful older men.

Interesting quote from: Edge of reason: The lonely reign of Benedict XVI

For millions of liberals in the Church who had desperately hoped, after nearly three decades of conservatism, for a change of direction - for a return to the spirit of Vatican II -it was a deeply dispiriting result. "Electing Ratzinger after John Paul," an American Catholic said to me in St Peter's Square immediately after Ratzinger came out on the balcony to acknowledge the crowd, "is like electing Rumsfeld after George Bush." And in the five years since then, Benedict XVI has run true to form.

Glenn Beck: "I hate 9/11 victims families for asking questions"

9/11 victims families who ask too many questions are evil. And so are people in New Orleans who survived Katrina. Heretics are everywhere. Truthers and anti-war protesters are heretics.

The legitimacy of the American inquisition shall not be questioned. - By decree of crazy George II

Apparently the problem with the Catholic Church (yes, capital Cs) is not that it is evil, it is that it is understaffed. It's in the New York Times, it must be true. I am sure that once they have "corrected" the problems with allocating bureaucratic resources, all will be fine again.

Is evil holed-up in the Catholic Church because there is no safe place for evil doers in the rest of society? Will evil be vanquished after we burn down the Vatican and YMCAs everywhere? How many sex assaults have taken place in schools and public libraries? We'll just have to burn down all schools and public libraries to make sure that nothing bad happens there at the same time. Public institutions are evil!!

Fidel, I know how you feel about the issue, but when the Vatican is saying, "it is unfair to single out the Church for child abuse, which also occurs in secular institutions" (Reuters report) - do you think you really should be saying the same thing here?

I'm not sure what the logic is behind singling out Catholic churches for child abuse, no. I think child abuse is a crime that should be punished severely. The Catholics produced a report describing the actual incidence of child abuse by Church officials compared to secular institutions, and I do think that the Church receives a disproportionate amount of attention compared to all of the other perpetrators of child abuse. And I think general interest in child abuse seems to be directly proportional with how many times the word Catholic is used in reports describing the abuse. Do our stoogeocrats care about child abuse and child poverty and all of the conditions surrounding child abuse? I don't think so. The Catholic Church is evol and are paying out money for the evil their officials have done. What is the cost of child poverty enforced by the state? What price tag can be placed on that?

We don't need any more evidence lets put these monsters in jail and not just throw money at victims.

They have not protected the victims but rather the perpetrators of these abuses. The level of morality and trust involved in their work is a stark contrast from these abuses. The criticism is heavy and it is fair. I am sure it would be lessened if they actually gave a damn about the people they hurt.

I could start a thread about children's rights being violated every day in Liberal Ontario according to UNICEF. And we could count the number of babblers commenting in the thread on about two or three fingers. Child abuse and women's rights violations right here in Canada isn't all that interesting a subject for very many people I'm afaid. Mention the word Catholic, and the anti-Catholic bigots come out of the woodwork. And for the good of the children, of course.

Sinead O'Connor: I'd help Jesus to burn down the Vatican

That's a heavy statement, Fidel. Who's an anti-Catholic bigot in this whole piece? People who viscerally hate the Vatican and the Pope and the whole army of child abusers that they protect? There's no longer any woodwork in the world big enough to house all those "bigots".

I get it Fidel you vote NDP so they can do no wrong.  Let me guess you grew up catholic and managed to not be abused so they also can do no wrong.  

Calling me an anti-catholic bigot is an insult you fucking little weasel.  Just because you can't see with the plank in your eyes doesn't mean others are blind as well. You disgust me with your self righteous dismissal of all the pain and suffering caused by the fucking church.  

I will comment on my abusers any tome I want no matter what insults and putdowns you want to throw at me. 

Fidel: Actually many participants have not launched scathing attacks on the Catholic Church. In fact, there are heavy criticisms of certain aspects of the Church. Also, if you have been readnig there is a lot of voiced sympathy for Liberation Theologists and their organizations on here. They fall under the Catholic Church.

Whoa whoa tabernac! Where did anyone call you specifically an anti-Catholic bigot? It's not like we dropped a line and lure in the water and reeled you in or anything.

What I am saying is that according to research data on child abuse, those children who are abused would probably stand a lesser chance of being sexually abused while actually in a Catholic Church than if they were at home with uncle Herman or babsay by stepmother Broomhilda. I'm just looking at the numbers and not trying to defence Catholic priests whove abused children in any way at all. The facts state that the large majority of pedophiles are family members or close relatives of the victims. Maybe we should start a thread about child abuse to relay some facts to interested babblers?

I'll have to go back and read the start of the thread, because I don't even think Glenn Beck was talking about the Church with respect to child abuse. In fact, I think we aren't even talking about Glenn Beck's specific beef with the Church anymorem which seems to be that he thinks that terms like social justice and social democracy are part of a much larger communist-fascist plot to steal the world dominos champeenship, or something.

Glenn Beck attacks the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church must be a force for good in the world. Thanks for that.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant to say. The Catholic Church led by opus dei is the third tine on the devil's trident of evol. Hot-hot bar-be-que!

Jesus. And I really mean that.

Okay people.

Caissa and remind. You both do a lot of one-liner drive-bys. And not just at each other. I have no idea why, since when it happens it pisses people off, derails threads and is generally unhelpful. Maybe consider, um NOT doing it anymore? Just a suggestion.

Fidel, it would be great if you didn't throw around words like anti-Catholic bigot. Acting all surprised that your poke achieved its desired results isn't cute either. Back off.

kropotkin, WTF? The direct personal insult in this thread was done by you. Knock it off.

I'm really not sure what this thread is about anymore. 

Fidel, I hear you regarding child sexual abuse. It's the same for sexual violence against women. If it involves a celebrity, or it's particularly violent, it makes the news. And most sexual violence against women is done by intimate partners, or former intimate partners.

Nonetheless, it's all bad and the institutional responsibility for organizations like the church (not just Catholic), other religious institutions, Boy Scouts, some sports coaches, and many other places in which predation on children, boys and girls, happens by adult men. And of course, family members. 

Such crimes are awful, all of them. Comparing which crimes get more and less emphasis rarely goes anywhere good and inevitably comes off as minimizing. Let's not go there.

So I'm thinking this needs to be closed, which I'm going to do now.