Natural gas drilling in Quebec

You will perhaps have noticed the reaction of the Quebec populace, not people to let  sleeping members lie.   No doubt the exploding package was just a firecracker, meant to show approval of the project.  (minor edit.)

Since when does public disapproval mean anything? (By the way I had to scour the news for your firecracker reference I had no idea what you were talking about.) The likely hood of it passing is high as is the likely hood of environmental contamination. Apparently the review doesn't end until February and business's are doing some preliminary drilling now to assess what's there. But from what I've noticed is that this is bound to end badly. Is there not another way of getting to the gas?

Both in Pennsylvania and New York has water contamination been noted. That would be awful to see happen here in Quebec. (Hopefully our government could regulate possibly environmentally damaging processes better than the Americans can.) I always thought that we should be working towards greener energy and Quebec as a province lacking in industry could provide a fertile ground for green innovation. Unfortunately the media has covered it very little which won't help opposition to the project, this issue could use a little bit of sensationalism. Perhaps CBC should air this documentary or something: (most epic trailer for a doc ever.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1AeH0Qz8

For what its worth- no, there isnt another way of getting at the shale gas.

We have a fair bit of it here in Nova Scotia. Not as extensive, but I gathered the drilling going on under me was further along than the Quebec exploration.

The project around me died when it came to the production stage. And it does not have a chance of coming back until prices are a LOT higher, and staying that way. Thats not what you will hear from the company, or even in the more realistic assessments in the newspaper. So you can hope that a similar dynamic in Quebec buys some time.

There is a new drilling program 60 km from here that is proceeding because it has some oil as well as gas.

Unfortunately, the production in the US [but more Texas than Pennsylvania and New York] proves that shale gas can pay even in the current market. And shale gas is the hot action. So the fact you have much bigger reserves of it in Quebec may mean projects are more liklely to go ahead there even if the near term economics are no better than in Nova Scotia.

You'd have to do some digging to find that out, and I think its likely you'd never get to the bottom of it googling around on the net. The industry is built on boosterist BS in search of investment.

Is this the same process that's creating all kinds of sinkholes?

I doubt it.

At least, its not the most likely of risks that go with hydraulic fracturing. Where have these sinkholes been happening?

I heard of several in Pennsylvania and at least one in New York State, i think. Can't cite the source, unfortunately, since it was some months ago that i read about this. The connection with natural gas was not explicit; i just wondered.

This is a risky precedure, but in the words of the CEO I know, this shale gas operation would be "the biggest play going in the oil and gas sector". There is more natural gas in those formations than anywhere in North America.

New York, at one time, refused to let the gas play go ahead because it would contaminate their drinking water which comes in a huge pipeline from somewhere upstate and into Canada from the same formations, perhaps a less deep underground than the gas is.

And it did... New Yorks drinking water was contaminated. They shouldn't have given it the thumbs up. I find it difficult to entirely blame the extraction process, it seems that a lot of these problems are seem to arise with the negligence of the energy companies. And it seems that no matter what your business; rig drilling, tar sands, natural gas fraccing, things go wrong and these companies were well aware of the risks and were generally apathetic in addressing them until after the fact. How can we really trust these people anymore?

I will end with a related question: Anyone know which companies are bidding for rights to extraction?

Ironically, a Canadian company Encana- who are not just a Canadian company has some of the wells in Penn or NY where the contamination has gone as far as civil suits I beleive.

You probabably wont be able to tell anything by who eventually gets the leases in Quebec, let alone who bids on them. Chance are it is some junior company from Calgary, and as with all explorarion ownership shares and outright whole ownership will change along the way. If the leases do go all the way to commercial production they will have at least a large ownership chunk by the big players like Encana or Shell, who may or may not be the operator at that point.

But I would think that in Quebec most if not all of the leases have been sold. At that stage you are still a long way from drilling, and on most leases in the ened their wont be any serious activity at all.

All the companies will tell you how careful they are, how many procedures they have, some of them redundant even [as in commercial aircraft safety requirements]. And they are being truthful.

The problem is that with all, shit happens. You are blasting fissures into rock, a lot of which is in the water table, and you are pumping in vast quantities of solvents. Not to mention the huge amount of water required, that has to be cleaned before being discharged to waterways.

Where they are manipulating the truth systematically is around the probabilities of this stuff happening.

In the public persentations they just talk about all the safeguards. Unfortunately, thats enough for too many people who live over this. But for those who do push the PR people harder, they have all the answers that make it seem as unlikely as a nuclear reactor meltdown.

I goy $5,000 out of the company drilling here for our school library. Its funny, because I knew that be happy for what they would assume would be good PR. Cheap even. But this is an area where everything is known about everybody, so the fact I got the money was seen as locals fleece the guys from Calgary.

But this is a pretty hungry place, and even without illusions about how many jobs would go to locals, I doubt there would have been much opposition had the project gone forward.

Quebec might be different. The local group where there is shale gas exploration in New Brunswick brought someone in, who I beleive was from Pennsylvania or New York. I can find out about that if anyone wants to PM me.

You have to keep in mind that the scale of even worst case effects is nothing remotely like with the tar sands. So it doesnt force its way onto people.  And unless something goes wrong, the whole thing is benign and out of sight. Plus its kind of fascinating to most people, and rightfully so.

Quote: "Quebec might be different. The local group where there is shale gas exploration in New Brunswick brought someone in, who I beleive was from Pennsylvania or New York. I can find out about that if anyone wants to PM me."

Just caught the tail end of a CBC Radio report this a.m....A meeting of Quebec farm people told the gas industry and politicos last night that they could frack off. NG industry people warn that exploration capital should not be scared off. Gov't says the processes happen far below the level that would effect surface water. The same old completely un-convincing assurances...given what is being reported from Idaho to NY state.

I heard about the hearing on the radio this morning. I agree with George Victor that it sounded like the usual assurances that the inevitable contamination will not occur.

Its always the same. and its unfortunately effective.

Unless you can force in the simple point that given the amount of fracing done, and the chemicals, shit WILL eventually happen. And point to the track record in the US- big Canadian energy companies included.

There is no such thing as clean fracturing of natural gas. Haliburton has been raping the shale geology in over 24 states with exemptions from every form of environmental safeguards. Each well is dug, 5000 to 8000 feet and blasted with 1 to 7 million gallons of water with over *598 chemicals, many of them (at least 36) that are extremely toxic to humans and animals. Where ever this procedure is done, the water and air is contaminated and the people nearby see the effects immediately. The rest of us get the long term effects like asthma, cancer, etc. We either stop this or breath the toxic air and poisoned water with a smile.

Now let's sing " As soon as your born, they let you feel small. By giving you no time instead of it all ". (Working Class Hero by John Lennon)

* Each well uses 400 trucks of water, 200 trucks of chemicals and equipment, roads built, acres torn up, at least half of toxic water left behind.

Watch the documentary - "GASLAND" by Josh Fox

http://gaslandthemovie.com/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703791704575114033928306688.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLEForthNews [16]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkM5eyN8ytI&feature=user [17]

Québec solidaire will table a bill tomorrow for a moratorium on shale gas exploration and exploitation

Excellent development - Scott Mackay, PQ mines critic, also put forward a private members' bill today calling for a moratorium! QS had called for unity, and it looks as if once again their lone MNA has triggered a response:

Shale gas: the Opposition demands a moratorium

Québec solidaire continues to be the most active on this front among the political parties, and public opinion is shifting dramatically:

Shale-gas opposition growing: poll

Moving to the Quebec forum

Hilarious:

Dundee Securities (Calgary) accuses Québec of being a "rogue state"

[My translation - the original is in French only, gentlemen.]

Ha - that's priceless, U.

They will be getting a call from Lucien Bouchard that they are diverging from and mucking up the new message.

"Didnt you read the memo?" [ya fucking idiots]

"We are being/acting humble before the people of Quebec now. We just weren't giving them time to get used to us and see how enlightenened we are." [just wait the fucking 30 months ya idiots]

Just a note that our group in Nova Scotia has decided to pursue a moratorium with a Strategic Environmental Assessment of shale gas fracking.

A moratorium is a necessary step back and look condition for any process. But the process is much more important than the moratorium itself.

A Strategic Environmental Assessment takes a bigger picture look than is characteristic of the project focused environmental impact assessment we are familiar with. We only have one or two precedents for this in Nova Scotia; but it is well established as a framework, and for all I know Quebec may have more precedents.... whatever label it travels under.

Enivironmental impact assessments for the mega-projects of Hydro Quebec would have a similar broader scope of inquiry. But not the conventional environmental impact assesments for a proposed mine, or expansion of gas drilling. Not to mention that in Nova Scotia an EIA is not required no matter how many wells you are going to drill, or how different their practices are than the conventional drilling that the regulatory framework was designed to address.

And that wont be different in Quebec. It is the same everywhere in North America. For the regulatory framework we have, drilling is drilling. And as you see in the discussion in the general thread on fracking, the industry and its proponents claims that all drilling really is the same, and no new regulatory frameworks are required. So far, every one of the state and provincial regulators also takes that as their operative assumption. "A little tweaking is required here and there, but no thoroughgoing reviews."

Anyway, the Nova Scotia Fracking Resource and Action Coalition will soon have a blog and website up. Very steep learning curve on this. I'll start a thread when we have something that can be linked to. .

That didn't take long for the oil elite to start screaming rouge state....I figure with the perimeter agreement resulting in the US protecting it's oil iintrests here in Canada instead of the middle east, it would just be a matter of time before the pressure started.

Mass demonstration Saturday by dozens of groups, including QS, trade unions, community groups, environmental groups - calling for total moratorium on shale gas exploration:

March against shale gas: Québec solidaire demands a new energy model

Shale gas: another demo Saturday in Montréal [28]

The bank can whinne all the time,they whinne about every little thing. But we are not force to listen to them.

Look what happen the usa.

Because of that they become a country in regression. Because they listten to much to the bank.

So to Dundee bank : put a sock in it!