Idle No More

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epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

A good friend and fallen warrior Art Loring and his 3 generations of traditionalist blockader family from Gitwangak. Solidarity is among all of us who stand up for our waters and lands. We have everything to loose if we ever find ourselves Idle again!!

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NorthReport
ilha formosa

quizzical wrote:

allies don't pass  judgements in a state of not knowing.

Accepted. But a structurally weak argument is a structurally weak argument, even if it comes from an ally, and I would be a worse ally if I did were not honest about what I see. I would have said those things about those words to anyone, regardless of their background.

ryanw

I'm content with not contributing

there's lots of stuff I can do instead

kropotkin1951

ilha formosa wrote:

quizzical wrote:

allies don't pass  judgements in a state of not knowing.

Accepted. But a structurally weak argument is a structurally weak argument, even if it comes from an ally, and I would be a worse ally if I did were not honest about what I see. I would have said those things about those words to anyone, regardless of their background.

People who are not from a community and then take sides in an internal debate by definition are not allies.  That is the argument and there is nothing weak about it. Ally doesn't mean I think about your struggle it means I support your struggle and will take action upon request.  Otherwise especially with marginalized communities that person is not an ally but someone who forgot to check their privilege before speaking. 

You have the right to comment but not the right to call yourself an ally and make critical comments. The problem is you seem to have a very, very weak definition of what constitutes an ally and your definition seems to include the right for you to spout off about your "allies" affairs in a negative fashion.  Sorry but FN's have enough settlers running their lives and making decisions on their behalf without having to listen to it from people who delude themselves into thinking that because they have a warm and fuzzy feeling about an issue that anything they do is an act of an ally.

 

kropotkin1951

Here are some suggestions from an INM activists for us settlers.

Jess Housty, Heiltsuk community organizer wrote:

Eight ideas

So the question is -- how can you, an average non-indigenous, non-activist, yet conscientious citizen of Canada, support us? Here are a few ideas:

Go to the rallies. You might think that doesn't accomplish anything, but it is a visible show of solidarity, and that matters. Participating in (and bearing witness to) ceremony in a respectful way is an important gesture. Make signs, participate in the days of action, and share photos through your social media networks. Be brave; join a round dance. We are gathering our strength in a visible way, and it all keeps up the momentum.

Get educated. People know less than they think they do, even the smart ones. Canada's indigenous question is a big, abstract issue, and the mainstream media is clouding it horribly, with some notable exceptions. There are good resources at idlenomore.ca and elsewhere, if you only look for them.

Challenge stereotypes. The most garish stereotypes are symptoms of poverty, not ethnicity -- let's look at why that poverty exists. Many stereotypes are simply false. Some of them are symptoms of deeper systemic issues that need to be addressed by Canada as a whole, for the good of Canada as a whole. Not one of them arises from some genetic quirk unique to indigenous DNA.

Confront racism. This is deeply tied to getting educated and challenging stereotypes. Many of my non-indigenous friends told me they spent their holidays listening to their relatives undermine INM over Christmas dinner and didn't speak up because they didn't know what to say. I told them all the same thing: keeping quiet is perpetuating the problem.

Participate in democracy. Write your MP and MLA. Vote. We elect these people to office. They work for us and we need to hold them accountable, starting with your MLA and MP and working right up to the prime minister. They can only represent us if we give them a clear mandate and hold them accountable.

Write letters to the editor. Idle No More has exposed astonishing hidden recesses of bigotry in otherwise respectable journalists, and not enough people are calling them on it. Don't just add a snarky post to the online comments section. Don't assume that INM campaigners are on it; most people deeply involved in the movement are so busy putting out fires elsewhere that much is being left undone and unsaid. Champion truth and fairness at every level you can as an individual.

Remember that this isn't about blame. There will always be individuals who lash out. But the spirit of this movement as a whole is about standing together and making change for a better future for all of Canada. Allies need to work at remembering that this isn't about colonial guilt -- this sort of defensive instinct is one of the biggest barriers to new allies getting involved.

Be a leader in your own sphere of influence, whatever that looks like. Model the respect and commitment you think other allies should show. Don't get hung up on big, abstract concepts like "decolonization" and "self-determination." Start by committing to them at your own level -- for myself, I'm committed to decolonizing my relationships, and practicing personal self-determination in a way that strengthens me as an individual. You can support that process in others whatever your background is.

Not all of these actions are concrete or measurable, but all of them truly do matter. If, after reading this, you're still uncertain how to show support, you can always reach out and ask. People within INM who are committed to its core ideals show 100 per cent support for non-indigenous allies getting involved in a respectful and meaningful way -- indeed, that involvement is critical to the success of the movement.

http://thetyee.ca/Life/2013/01/19/Idle-No-More-List/

Serviam6

NorthReport wrote:

Solicitor General to meet with police brass over Idle No More

Angered by protest tactics, Denis says he wants to ensure safety for all Albertans

Solicitor General to meet with police brass over Idle No More

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Solicitor+General+meet+with+police+b...

 

That was a pretty tense video to watch.

quizzical

what video? there were 2 pics and a article!!!!!!!!!

Serviam6

Sorry I should be more clear. The video of that incident, I recognized the picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZTul1KvsYo

6079_Smith_W
NorthReport

Idle No More makes its mark

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters/article/1316653--idle-no-more-mak...

t was quite a relief to read Linda McQuaig and Gillian Steward on Idle No More and Chief Theresa Spence and about their powerful challenge to the Canadian government past and present. The columnists succinctly point out the essential facts that elude most other pundits.

These First Nations leaders know the essentials of Canadian history and Canadian politics and can read the character flaws of the too-many Canadians who are driving indigenous peoples (and the majority of the world) headlong to environmental catastrophe.

 

 

ilha formosa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The problem is you seem to have a very, very weak definition of what constitutes an ally and your definition seems to include the right for you to spout off about your "allies" affairs in a negative fashion. Sorry but FN's have enough settlers running their lives and making decisions on their behalf without having to listen to it from people who delude themselves into thinking that because they have a warm and fuzzy feeling about an issue that anything they do is an act of an ally.

I certainly can't call myself a close ally (or by your definition "an ally") which makes sense because I'm not even on Turtle Island at the moment and have no direct contact with those involved in the movement. But one, undeniably major way INM has been different is that it has taken off in an unprecedented manner by capturing the imagination of larger numbers of non-indigenous peoples like myself. I am hoping that this is the indication of a significant shift of some kind, much more significant than these little spats of ours.

What I have posted has been based on my desire to give one non-indigenous person's perspective on the movement (this is the internet and we believe in free speech, right?), and how INM could grow non-indigenous support BEHIND (not in front of, not co-opting inside of, not anything other than FN/indigenous people leading) the movement.

I've been participating in these threads based on my wish to see INM garner significant non-indigenous SUPPORT (NOT approval, NOT permission, NOT any other twisting of this word). Does INM wish to attract potential allies, or repel them?

Ever heard of constructive criticism? It may be on or off the mark, and there is no obligation to accept it. It may be blunt and rile you. But the important thing is that it be offered. Behind it are the earnest intentions to make another stronger.

ilha formosa

NorthReport wrote:

These First Nations leaders know the essentials of Canadian history and Canadian politics and can read the character flaws of the too-many Canadians who are driving indigenous peoples (and the majority of the world) headlong to environmental catastrophe.

Hearing wisdom passed down from aboriginal elders (eg. youtube) gives me hope that we can be led out of this growing mess.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I appreciate hearing voices. Let's take our lead from our Allies.

NDPP

Two Uprisings - A Review of Douglas Bland's Uprising  -  by Justin Podur

http://www.zcommunications.org/contents/190726

"In 2009, military scholar Douglas Bland predicted that the frustrations of Canada's indigenous people would boil over into an uprising. A the end of 2012, as Idle No More grew it appeared that Bland was right. But also, that he was wrong. The question of what he got right, and wrong, can tell us a lot about how the Canadian establishment views First Nations.."

NDPP

omit dp

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Sent by a friend:  Oily Chiefs, Idle No More, and the AFN  

This comment after the article sums it up for me:

"I feel let down, there are always 3 sides to every story, yours, theirs and the truth, of which I have no idea what that is after reading this article."

kropotkin1951

I found the article informative and it set out for me who's who in the AFN.  I think the most informative part though was the comments section.  The author in the comments engaged his critics in a respectful way and the dialogue helped me put it all in perspective.

The article and comments drive home the point that there is no single FN's view of any of the issues. 

Serviam6

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 

You have the right to comment but not the right to call yourself an ally and make critical comments. The problem is you seem to have a very, very weak definition of what constitutes an ally and your definition seems to include the right for you to spout off about your "allies" affairs in a negative fashion.  Sorry but FN's have enough settlers running their lives and making decisions on their behalf without having to listen to it from people who delude themselves into thinking that because they have a warm and fuzzy feeling about an issue that anything they do is an act of an ally.

 

Are you a First nations member kropotkin?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I found the article informative and it set out for me who's who in the AFN.  I think the most informative part though was the comments section.  The author in the comments engaged his critics in a respectful way and the dialogue helped me put it all in perspective.

The article and comments drive home the point that there is no single FN's view of any of the issues. 

I still don't know what to make of it. By the way, if you click on "Home Page" there's more articles.

kropotkin1951

I think one needs to absorb the different perspectives and thus gain a fuller picture.  I posted a video preview on another thread from a film. The clip was mostly about a FN's leader in BC's Peace country where our oil and gas industry has mushroomed since the NDP put in place regulations and a tax scheme helpful to the industry. He also highlights the division in his own community between the desire to have a well paid job and a clean environment. Both of those things are proper ethical goals but they are not necessarily compatible if one chooses the carbon industry.  Developing good paying jobs in remote communities that do not rely on primary resource extraction is something that all northern communities are struggling with not just FN's.  FN's have a unique place in our constitution and on paper they have more power to control resource development than a mere municipality but in reality that is not the case because of Ottawa's control over Indian Act bands.

If FN's get true sovereignty then we all have to accept that some of the FN's are going to engage in activities that environmentalists are not going to like.  The LNG plant in BC is a prime example. It is being built on the Haisla Nation's land with that FN's approval and agreement but that FN's neighbours the Haida and others are not in agreement with it and other voices both native and settler are decrying the fracking that has to be used to feed the new plants.  There are no easy issues.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Idle No More stirs in Australia


The Idle No More campaign continues to spread across the globe.

The fight for Indigenous rights campaign has been adopted by Indigenous communities in several other countries, including the United States, Finland and now, Australia.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Thanks for that summary, kropotkin. The author - from what I can gather - is saying Idle No More has been co-opted by native capitalists, and a new grassroots level activism has to start up, free of AFN influence. Did I get that wrong?

NDPP

Idle No More - Former Indian Affairs Ministers (CBC Audio)

http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/shows/2013/01/20/idle-no-more/

Ghislaine

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think one needs to absorb the different perspectives and thus gain a fuller picture.  I posted a video preview on another thread from a film. The clip was mostly about a FN's leader in BC's Peace country where our oil and gas industry has mushroomed since the NDP put in place regulations and a tax scheme helpful to the industry. He also highlights the division in his own community between the desire to have a well paid job and a clean environment. Both of those things are proper ethical goals but they are not necessarily compatible if one chooses the carbon industry.  Developing good paying jobs in remote communities that do not rely on primary resource extraction is something that all northern communities are struggling with not just FN's.  FN's have a unique place in our constitution and on paper they have more power to control resource development than a mere municipality but in reality that is not the case because of Ottawa's control over Indian Act bands.

If FN's get true sovereignty then we all have to accept that some of the FN's are going to engage in activities that environmentalists are not going to like.  The LNG plant in BC is a prime example. It is being built on the Haisla Nation's land with that FN's approval and agreement but that FN's neighbours the Haida and others are not in agreement with it and other voices both native and settler are decrying the fracking that has to be used to feed the new plants.  There are no easy issues.

This is an excellent post and I think really gets to the importance of not co-opting FN voices or assuming one particular viewpoint. 

I disagree with Mulcair calling on Spence to end her hunger strike for this reason. Many others who are FN were saying the same thing, but that is fine. 

theleftyinvestor

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The article and comments drive home the point that there is no single FN's view of any of the issues. 

No more than we would expect the entire European Union to have a unanimous worldview.

Unionist

Ghislaine wrote:

This is an excellent post and I think really gets to the importance of not co-opting FN voices or assuming one particular viewpoint.

Agree.

Quote:
I disagree with Mulcair calling on Spence to end her hunger strike for this reason. Many others who are FN were saying the same thing, but that is fine. 

Me too.

 

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:
I posted a video preview on another thread from a film. The clip was mostly about a FN's leader in BC's Peace country where our oil and gas industry has mushroomed since the NDP put in place regulations and a tax scheme helpful to the industry.

Tongue out

That might be true in MakeThingsUpLand, but  just look how provincial oil revenues rose steadily during the NDP's last reign and then dropped off significantly one year after the Liebrals were elected.

The NDP was collecting a higher rate of total available oil revs than Alberta and even socialist Norway at the time.

kropotkin1951

Yes the oil revenues grew steadily under the NDP.  They in fact are the architects of BC's oil and gas industry.  I believe that is what I said. Your charts above do not show the incentives and tax breaks given to the then start up industry during the 1990's by the NDP government.  I am not surprised that the BC Liberals lowered the revenue rates for that industry since they have done it for most industries in this province. The NDP extracted higher revenue but they nurtured the industry with tax incentives.

If you are someone like me who is opposed to a carbon economy I don't consider it one of the NDP's achievements but the party itself does and that is why they are still supportive of LNG expansion and the inevitable fracking in the interior.

kropotkin1951

Fidel all I can say is that apples are different than oranges. 

Please stop with the personal insults and lets get back to the topic at hand which is INM.

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Yes the oil revenues grew steadily under the NDP.  They in fact are the architects of BC's oil and gas industry.  I believe that is what I said.

No you said the NDP put in place a tax regime that caused the oil industry to mushroom, and that is patently false according to Pembina Inst. data. Anyone can see that the NDP extracted more revenues and a higher rate of total available than either Campbell's Liberals or Klein's Conservatives.

kropotkin wrote:
The NDP extracted higher revenue but they nurtured the industry with tax incentives.

Yeah whatever that means. How does taking more money at a higher rate from the oil and gas industry nurture development of oil and gas? Look at Ralph Klein's Alberta where they really do have communism for corporations.

Fidel

I'm sorry but I find it insulting when you post false and misleading info. Have you ever considered that you might be a pathological liar and esp. when discussing the NDP in threads about FN issues? 

oldgoat

Fidel wrote:

I'm sorry but I find it insulting when you post false and misleading info. Have you ever considered that you might be a pathological liar and esp. when discussing the NDP in threads about FN issues? 

 

Fidel, I'm not really moderating right now, and the last time I did I accidently banned myself which of course does squat for my credibility ....BUT! * raises eyebrow and taps foot in a censorious fashion* ... Really?

6079_Smith_W

Ghislaine wrote:

I disagree with Mulcair calling on Spence to end her hunger strike for this reason. Many others who are FN were saying the same thing, but that is fine. 

Actually I don't see that as an absolute line at all.

Besides, someone who is from a certain group or nation might not feel all that comfortable with ANYONE outside weighing in, including other First Nations or Native people . So I think it is an arbitrary rule at best.

I agree that it is best if we play a supportive role, and that it is not a good idea to second-guess decisions that they have made.

On the other hand, I reserve the right to point out that I think something is a bad idea... particularly if it is bad enough that I think the need to speak up outweighs the need to hang back and be respectful.

There's a difference between that and trying to take over someone else's business, and I don't think saying "yes, wonderful" to everything is being the best ally in all situations either.

/drift

 

Fidel

That wasn't me it was my bad alter ego. He's locked in the cellar for now. Sorry, kropotkin.

quizzical

i don't think it is ever wrong for anyone to tell another their life is worth living. there's no identity politics in trying to save a life. telling someone their life is worth living is a gift. and you can and should say that even while respecting whatever choice it is their going to make anyway.

harper could give a rat's ass about Theresa Spence or Elder Robertson. they shouldn't throw their lives away just to get a meeting with him that won't do a damn thing.

they're too valuable to ALL FN's Peoples.

but hey i'm not one whose big on martyres. we've had enough give their lives so the settlers dream could endure. silencing our own voice is a mistake imv.

2 more need not be wasted.

oldgoat

Ya see my friend what you need to say is, " my honorable friend kropotkin has clearly been misled by his chronically misinformed staff.  Then it's parliamentery.  That's all we ask! Smile

kropotkin1951

Yes indeed Old Goat and the proper response to that would be that the honourable poster opposite has once again taken my comments out of context and twisted them almost beyond recognition because he is blinded by his devotion to an ideal that does not exist.

 

oldgoat

Welll now that'd work, then you both have weasley proxies go onto Power and Polotics and politiely turn the debate into an incomprehensible mush.

NDPP

'Idle No More ' Protesters Confront Ezra Levant Over Alleged Racism (and vid)

http://www.huff.to/11JTLTg

kropotkin1951

The debate in the BC NDP around gas development  does in some ways mirror the debate in the FN's community.  Should the province or FN's be expanding the extraction of various forms of carbon.   Is it all right as long as their is enough revenue sharing or is it just inherently wrong?

While I will not deem to tell FN's what they should do on their territories I will say that it is bad public policy for the province to expand the gas business to feed LNG plants.  This issue as I was trying to point out above affects and divides various FN's and as it happens also the BC NDP.  I don't know why you are not proud of the NDP economic record while in government given that their success in developing the gas industry is something the BC NDP was proud of.

Unionist

quizzical wrote:

i don't think it is ever wrong for anyone to tell another their life is worth living. there's no identity politics in trying to save a life. telling someone their life is worth living is a gift. and you can and should say that even while respecting whatever choice it is their going to make anyway.

I agree. And that's why Mulcair could have told Chief Spence exactly that - in private, as one human being to another. But by saying it publicly (and not also saying, "but of course I respect your struggle and whatever means you decide to carry it out"), he only undermined her. He made it appear that she had picked between her life, and her goal, and she had made the wrong choice. He had no business telling her what to do before the whole world. She has more than enough enemies telling her what to do without needing allies to join in the chorus.

That's how I see it. I may be wrong. But that's the path I try to follow in being an ally to those who are doing the heavy lifting. And that's how I expect workers' allies to behave when we are in struggles of our own.

Serviam6

NDPP wrote:

'Idle No More ' Protesters Confront Ezra Levant Over Alleged Racism (and vid)

http://www.huff.to/11JTLTg

 

It would have been nice if FN allies in that video stopped interupting them and let them speak.

Aristotleded24

[url=http://christianweek.org/stories.php?id=2242&utm_source=ChristianWeek+eN... Christian perspective on Idle No More:[/url]

Quote:
When Christians hear the word "treaty" they must recognize that the Old Testament perspective of "covenant" is invoked in Indigenous people's understanding. These are not business contracts, promises that can be set aside when a signatory defaults, changes her mind, or in the case of recent and infamous business fiascos, bankrupt the company. Nor can these treaties be unilaterally legislated out of existence.

As Christians, we ought to be clear: the rule of law is wholly inadequate for governance if justice is absent. Omnibus legislation is not the place to deal with treaty–related issues let alone the other important considerations within its many pages that impact all Canadians. Such an approach is the stuff of U.S. politics, and provides adequate evidence that government claims of concern for "all Canadians" are vacuous.

Maysie Maysie's picture

NDPP wrote:

'Idle No More ' Protesters Confront Ezra Levant Over Alleged Racism (and vid)

http://www.huff.to/11JTLTg

The article and video are clearly biased against the INM movement. They are bullshit. Huff Po is not progressive in any way, it's a Liberal rag.

I was at that protest. We round-danced around the group of drummers, including coming between the cops and their bikes. Ooh such a threat. My friends and I left before Ezra showed up, for which I'm very grateful. I would not engage with him anyways, which is my advice for anyone who is confronted with his smug condescending demeanour.

NDPP

Thanks Maysie, I agree...

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Nepinak says Idle No More won’t stop until PM, GG meet with chiefs across country

A good article, with input from Pam Palmater and others as well as Nepinak.

theleftyinvestor
Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Yes indeed Old Goat and the proper response to that would be that the honourable poster opposite has once again taken my comments out of context and twisted them almost beyond recognition because he is blinded by his devotion to an ideal that does not exist.

Well then in your next post you go off the rails suggesting, again, that the NDP is responsible for expansion of oil and gas development in B.C. What power does a provincial government actually have in curbing corporate activities in the province? They can tax and extract more in the total available oil and gas revenues than either your current Liberals or previously corrupt Social Credit governments on the take from big business, that's what!

And you can get down on your hands and knees and give thanks to the Chretien Libranos for selling the environment to Exxon-Imperial and the rest of the fossil fuel industry, and mostly American owned and controlled, with Mulroney's expanded free trade agreement, NAFTA, signed as-is on the dotted line by 1994. That's right, [email protected]

And not only that, the Liberal Party of B.C. says NDP policies will be bad for oil and gas development in that province while demanding that energy companies pay the government and, coincidentally, the people of B.C. for the right to do business and profit in that province.

kropotkin, you are clearly misinformed to the point of being comical in your relentless posting of anti-NDP rhetoric as per usual here on babble. Please, no more. I will surely burst at the seems if you make me laugh any harder at your feeble attempts to discredit the NDP.

[/countering the relentless anti-NDP propaganda in threads where only water and weasels could get]

kropotkin1951

Fidel wrote:

Well then in your next post you go off the rails suggesting, again, that the NDP is responsible for expansion of oil and gas development in B.C.

Fidel you obviously don't follow BC politics as well as you think you do.  I am not saying anything controversial when I say the BC NDP was responsible for the massive increase in gas exploration. Of course the BC Liberals just like you dismiss that idea and claim all the glory for those revenues however many in the NDP think they set the table for the expansion and that it is worth bragging about.  Your attacks on me for merely stating the same thing as Carole James did when she was leader and campaigning to be Prime Minister is rather difficult to understand.

I raised the issue because the jobs versus environment is an issue that divides both the left and FN's and there are no easy answers. 

Quote:

VICTORIA -- The New Democrats engaged in a courtship with the oil and gas industry back in 1998 when they announced some major incentives for development and exploration.

Government had been taking the sector for granted for too long, conceded then-premier Glen Clark. "Clearly we can do better."

He offered reductions in royalty rates of up to 40 per cent, aimed at encouraging the industry to drill new wells.

Subsidies? Giveaways to big business? Not at all, explained Dan Miller, then energy minister. "Incentives."

The discounted royalty rates would act as a spur to development. Additional production would boost provincial revenues by more than the cost of the incentives, Miller predicted.

Spot on. The provincial take from natural gas royalties has increased 10-fold since the New Democratic Party government cut the rate to encourage development.

There were other factors at play, including regulatory change, soaring commodity prices and and additional incentives brought in by the B.C. Liberals.

But the New Democrats can rightly claim their fair share of the credit, and they've not hesitated to do so.

On the eve of the last provincial election, party leader Carole James reminded the Fort St. John Chamber of commerce how the NDP laid the groundwork for the current boom in the industry.

"It was the New Democrats who really kicked off the oil and gas sector in the northeast of this province," she declared on another occasion.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=0b79f09f-2ad...

 

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