Jeremy Corbyn rated top anti-Semite of 2019

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Also, NDPP, you are not the person here who thinks what the Israeli government does to the Palestinians is an injustice, or the only one who wants it stopped.

kropotkin1951

Ken Burch wrote:

No one is saying you can't post "dissenting views".  You just need to make a clear and absolute distinction between Zionists, on the one hand, and people who simply happen to be Jewish on the other.  Not that hard to do.

The point of some of my posts including the one above yours is that I find it very difficult to talk about a self proclaimed theocratic state and not use its own language.  What I find obscene is the Israeli fascists using the German fascists' murder of millions as a shield against any talk about genocide against Palestians.

The majority of people killed by NAZI's were indeed Jewish but if I had been alive in that era in Germany I would have been targeted as an anarchist and likely have gotten a bullet to the back of the head long before the gas chambers were built, my oldest son would have been murdered long before the gas chambers were built because disabled people were the gateway drug to mass euthanasia for eugenic reasons, my Jewish sister in law would have been sent to the gas chambers as well as my gay brother. There are almost no survivors of the Holocaust left alive and from what I read a large number of them decry the Israeli governments polices and themselves make comparisons to the Holocaust. Could a Roma call Israelis NAZI's given their history during the Holocaust? I find the restriction on language difficult. It is like saying I can talk about ISIS but I cannot call them an Islamic terrorist group because of course murderous people of the Islamic faith are like murderous people of the Jewish faith in that they are not the only people who belong to those religions. How do I speak about the government of Myanmar without mentioning Buddhism?

If one looks at the Gaza Strip one sees a very large reservation where the IDF regularly kills anyone who opposes them. The death camps in Germany lasted for less than five years, Gaza inhabitants have been interned for over fifty years and the government that does it calls itself a Jewish state. So I can compare the Iranian theocratic state to NAZI's,  or I can compare the treatment of Ughers to the NAZI concentration camps  but if I claim the Israeli government is been running a NAZI like concentration camp I am antisemitic?

Israel is the point of the US spear and we allow it to set the agenda on how we can talk about its on going ethnic cleansing and genocide. That is the greatest problem IMO

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'd also say that the thread title should be modified to make it clear that the phrase "Top Anti-Semite" was simply the headline the right-wing anti-Corbyn UK rag that ran the story used, rather than the actual label applied to Corbyn by the Wiesenthal Center-not that what the Wiesenthal Center said about him wasn't a load, of course.

NDPP

 I have been involved in Anti-Apartheid struggle for 40 years. I very well know the difference between Jews and Zionists because the movement I have long been a part of contains longtime Jewish friends and comrades who like me struggle against the lobby and agenda of the latter.  For several years I have stood with them against 30,000+  Zionists who yearly 'walk with Israel'. Unfortunately there are 100 times more supporting Israel than opposing it. Including every significant Canadian politician Jewish or Gentile from all levels of government.  Nothing I have said is untrue or antisemitic. There is a powerful Israel lobby. It is growing stronger. Corbyn is an example.  It does influence our politicians in Israel's favour. Denial of this power, how it operates and its supporters will only ensure its continued success.

NDPP

Gideon Levy: The Contract on Corbyn

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769

"The Jewish establishment in Britain and the Israeli propaganda machine have taken out a contract on the leader of the British Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. The contract was taken out a long time agao, and it was clear that the closer Corbyn came to being elected prime minister, the harsher the conflict would get.

On Tuesday, it reached its climax in an article by the chief rabbi of Britain, Ephraim Mirvis in the Times. Mirvis has decided that the anxiety of British Jews over Corbyn is justified and he is not fit to be prime minister. He called on Jews not to vote for Labour in the election on Dec 12.

The new and efficient strategy of Israel and the Zionist establishment brands every seeker of justice as an anti-Semite, and any criticism of Israel as hatred of Jews...Are the Jews of Britain conditionally British? To whom is their loyalty? If the Jews of Britain and their chief rabbi were more honest and courageous, they would ask themselves: Isn't Israel's brutal occupation policy the strongest motive for anti-Semitism today?"

 

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

JKR

NDPP wrote:

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

It looks like NDPP now wants to be counted in as being antisemitic all the way!

NDPP

How Britain Dresses Up Crimes in Israel as 'Charitable Acts'

https://twitter.com/Qudsn_en/status/1206924749684781056

"Noting its role in 'building Israel for over a century', the organisation boasts: 'Every penny raised by JNF-UK is sent to a project in Israel..."

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

It looks like NDPP now wants to be counted in as being antisemitic all the way!

You're missing the point of the quote NDPP cited.   And I assume you would agree that criticism of the Israeli government and what it does to Palestinians should never be considered antisemitism, and that non-Zionism should not be unless the person opposing Zionism is making it clear that their opposition is specifically grounded in hatred of Jews and Judaism and a wish for harm to come to that community.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Gideon Levy: The Contract on Corbyn

https://www.haartez.com/opinion/premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769

"The Jewish establishment in Britain and the Israeli propaganda machine have taken out a contract on the leader of the British Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. The contract was taken out a long time agao, and it was clear that the closer Corbyn came to being elected prime minister, the harsher the conflict would get.

On Tuesday, it reached its climax in an article by the chief rabbi of Britain, Ephraim Mirvis in the Times. Mirvis has decided that the anxiety of British Jews over Corbyn is justified and he is not fit to be prime minister. He called on Jews not to vote for Labour in the election on Dec 12.

The new and efficient strategy of Israel and the Zionist establishment brands every seeker of justice as an anti-Semite, and any criticism of Israel as hatred of Jews...Are the Jews of Britain conditionally British? To whom is their loyalty? If the Jews of Britain and their chief rabbi were more honest and courageous, they would ask themselves: Isn't Israel's brutal occupation policy the strongest motive for anti-Semitism today?"

 

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

I wouldn't normally make an issue of spelling, but it matters here.  In the link to the "Hit on Corbyn" story, it should be "Haaretz.com", not "Haartez.com".  With "Haaretz" misspelled, you can't go to the site.  Would you mind correcting that?

Unionist

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

It looks like NDPP now wants to be counted in as being antisemitic all the way!

I'm really sorry that I may have initiated this conversation.

For the record (our little babble record anyway): I do not believe for one split second that NDPP is any kind of "antisemite". I count him as an ally and a progressive on all fronts, irrespective of any particular differences of emphasis we may have.

Our ruling classes support Israel for one main reason, since 1948 if not long before (e.g. the Balfour Declaration): It gives imperialism a handy HQ in a strategic economic and geopolitical region and helps keep the Arab nations divided and weakened. They support and incite Israel for their own interests - not because some rich powerful Jews run our politicians.

One sad aspect of this rigged game is that it's so easy to stray into antisemitic-sounding propositions when one's motive is simply to oppose Israeli crimes, support Palestinian human rights, and fight the ugly censorship of pro-Palestinian opinion and activism as embodied (for example) in the IHRA "examples" of antisemitism. And yes, indeed, progressive Jews (and there are lots of us) have to deal with the enemy in our own midst - Jewish organizations that have morphed from (for example) the Canadian Jewish Congress into (after a coup in the early 2000s) the Centre of Israel and Jewish Advocacy. Israel first, you see.

So, my earnest wish: Let's keep our powder dry for our common enemies, and try to keep our own differences to a comradely tone of exchange.

And let me know when I fail to follow my own brilliant advice lol. Thanks.

NDPP

Ken Burch wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Gideon Levy: The Contract on Corbyn

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769

"The Jewish establishment in Britain and the Israeli propaganda machine have taken out a contract on the leader of the British Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. The contract was taken out a long time agao, and it was clear that the closer Corbyn came to being elected prime minister, the harsher the conflict would get.

On Tuesday, it reached its climax in an article by the chief rabbi of Britain, Ephraim Mirvis in the Times. Mirvis has decided that the anxiety of British Jews over Corbyn is justified and he is not fit to be prime minister. He called on Jews not to vote for Labour in the election on Dec 12.

The new and efficient strategy of Israel and the Zionist establishment brands every seeker of justice as an anti-Semite, and any criticism of Israel as hatred of Jews...Are the Jews of Britain conditionally British? To whom is their loyalty? If the Jews of Britain and their chief rabbi were more honest and courageous, they would ask themselves: Isn't Israel's brutal occupation policy the strongest motive for anti-Semitism today?"

 

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

I wouldn't normally make an issue of spelling, but it matters here.  In the link to the "Hit on Corbyn" story, it should be "Haaretz.com", not "Haartez.com".  With "Haaretz" misspelled, you can't go to the site.  Would you mind correcting that?

NDPP wrote:

Sorry. Corrected.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Gideon Levy: The Contract on Corbyn

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769

"The Jewish establishment in Britain and the Israeli propaganda machine have taken out a contract on the leader of the British Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. The contract was taken out a long time agao, and it was clear that the closer Corbyn came to being elected prime minister, the harsher the conflict would get.

On Tuesday, it reached its climax in an article by the chief rabbi of Britain, Ephraim Mirvis in the Times. Mirvis has decided that the anxiety of British Jews over Corbyn is justified and he is not fit to be prime minister. He called on Jews not to vote for Labour in the election on Dec 12.

The new and efficient strategy of Israel and the Zionist establishment brands every seeker of justice as an anti-Semite, and any criticism of Israel as hatred of Jews...Are the Jews of Britain conditionally British? To whom is their loyalty? If the Jews of Britain and their chief rabbi were more honest and courageous, they would ask themselves: Isn't Israel's brutal occupation policy the strongest motive for anti-Semitism today?"

 

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

I wouldn't normally make an issue of spelling, but it matters here.  In the link to the "Hit on Corbyn" story, it should be "Haaretz.com", not "Haartez.com".  With "Haaretz" misspelled, you can't go to the site.  Would you mind correcting that?

NDPP wrote:

Sorry. Corrected.

 

Thanks.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Gideon Levy: The Contract on Corbyn

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769

"The Jewish establishment in Britain and the Israeli propaganda machine have taken out a contract on the leader of the British Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. The contract was taken out a long time agao, and it was clear that the closer Corbyn came to being elected prime minister, the harsher the conflict would get.

On Tuesday, it reached its climax in an article by the chief rabbi of Britain, Ephraim Mirvis in the Times. Mirvis has decided that the anxiety of British Jews over Corbyn is justified and he is not fit to be prime minister. He called on Jews not to vote for Labour in the election on Dec 12.

The new and efficient strategy of Israel and the Zionist establishment brands every seeker of justice as an anti-Semite, and any criticism of Israel as hatred of Jews...Are the Jews of Britain conditionally British? To whom is their loyalty? If the Jews of Britain and their chief rabbi were more honest and courageous, they would ask themselves: Isn't Israel's brutal occupation policy the strongest motive for anti-Semitism today?"

 

"If it's anti-Semitic to support life and liberty, to oppose mass mayhem and murder, to confront Israeli occupation, apartheid and slaughter, count me in...anti-Semitic all the way."

https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1205707077613572098

I wouldn't normally make an issue of spelling, but it matters here.  In the link to the "Hit on Corbyn" story, it should be "Haaretz.com", not "Haartez.com".  With "Haaretz" misspelled, you can't go to the site.  Would you mind correcting that?

NDPP wrote:

Sorry. Corrected.

 

Thanks.

JKR

Unionist wrote:

For the record (our little babble record anyway): I do not believe for one split second that NDPP is any kind of "antisemite". I count him as an ally and a progressive on all fronts, irrespective of any particular differences of emphasis we may have.

Our ruling classes support Israel for one main reason, since 1948 if not long before (e.g. the Balfour Declaration): It gives imperialism a handy HQ in a strategic economic and geopolitical region and helps keep the Arab nations divided and weakened. They support and incite Israel for their own interests - not because some rich powerful Jews run our politicians.

One sad aspect of this rigged game is that it's so easy to stray into antisemitic-sounding propositions when one's motive is simply to oppose Israeli crimes, support Palestinian human rights, and fight the ugly censorship of pro-Palestinian opinion and activism as embodied (for example) in the IHRA "examples" of antisemitism. And yes, indeed, progressive Jews (and there are lots of us) have to deal with the enemy in our own midst - Jewish organizations that have morphed from (for example) the Canadian Jewish Congress into (after a coup in the early 2000s) the Centre of Israel and Jewish Advocacy. Israel first, you see.

So, my earnest wish: Let's keep our powder dry for our common enemies, and try to keep our own differences to a comradely tone of exchange.

And let me know when I fail to follow my own brilliant advice lol. Thanks.

I think equating Judaism with Zionism has immeasurably set back the cause of establishing peace in Israel and Palestine. I think some of the people who rightfully want to see the plight of Palestinians end, hate Israel for what Israel has done and their hatred of Israel has led them to be angry and even hate Jews in general. I think this anger and hatred toward Jews in general for the actions of Isreal is misplaced and counterproductive. I also think that as long as Judaism and Zionism are blurred the status quo of hatred and violence will continue in Israel and Palestine. I think defenders of Palestinians do Palestinians no favour when they blur Judaism and Zionism together and leave the impression of being antisemitic to very many people.

Unionist

I agree, JKR. I don't think that is what NDPP has done.

And by the way. Those most guilty of blurring Judaism with Zionism? ... are the Zionists. Equating Jews with Israel is their concoction. And that makes them antisemitic in my book.

JKR

Zionists conflate Zionism and Judaism because it supports the cause of Zionism. On the other hand, conflating Judaism with Zionism undermines the case against Zionism as conflating the two is antisemitic. Zionists will always conflate Zionism and Judaism as it supports their cause.

NDPP

Perhaps when  I begin to see something more than a couple hundred standing against the more than 30,000 + who yearly 'Walk With Israel' through the streets of my city Toronto, 'the most Zionist community in the world',  or see serious opposition to the myriad of unprotested, pro-Israel events and functions attended by every politician in the vicinity, and the big billboards screaming out 'Buy Israel Bonds' gone will I share in the optimism.

UJA: Walk With Israel Toronto

http://ujafed.convio.net/site/PageNavigator/MainPage.html

 

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Perhaps when  I begin to see something more than a couple hundred standing against the more than 30,000 + who yearly 'Walk With Israel' through the streets of my city Toronto, 'the most Zionist community in the world',  or see serious opposition to the myriad of unprotested, pro-Israel events and functions attended by every politician in the vicinity, and the big billboards screaming out 'Buy Israel Bonds' gone will I share in the optimism.

UJA: Walk With Israel Toronto

http://ujafed.convio.net/site/PageNavigator/MainPage.html

 

What "optimism" are you refering to? JKR's post immediately before yours, to which I presume you are responding, simply states that Judaism should not be equated with Zionism. I don't see that as an optimistic or pessimistic statement, but rather just a statement about what connection the poster thinks we should, or should not, draw between a cultural group and a political ideology.

NDPP

I was referring to the optimism of believing Canadian progressives, Jewish and/or non-Jewish will prevail over the considerable forces foreign and domestic that support Zionism and Apartheid Israel. What about you VOTD? Done anything to support Palestine or oppose Apartheid lately?

Unionist

I understood NDPP's reference to "optimism" as I think he intended it, and although I don't detect much optimism around about defeating the Israeli settler colonial enterprise, I certainly agree that we need to get into action. I've been preaching this gospel for decades. It hasn't been easy (getting denounced for being a self-hating Jew), but nothing worthwhile is. I'm a supporter of BDS, a financial and bodily supporter of Independent Jewish Voices - I do what I can. I've helped get my union to adopt some decent positions. But every day, I feel pessimism. Those of you who are on Facebook should consider watching this wonderful webinar that we held a couple weeks ago with two 20-something Gaza activists from wearenotnumbers.org. At the end, I was left feeling morose, at the absence of leadership among the Palestinians, and at the absence of leadership in Canada. How the hell do we get out of this morass?

lagatta4

Indeed. I have several friends in IJV, also in the French (from France - IJV is VJI in francophone Canada) equivalent, including a dear friend and colleague who was a "hidden child"), but I'm not Jewish, nor am I Palestinian, so in some respects I have to leave that to others.

I dunno. My friend V in Paris is obviously at the other end of life, though hale and healthy for the time being. Frankly I have no idea what it will take. Michel Warshawski wrote a book with the depressing title "Towards an Open Tomb".

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Perhaps when  I begin to see something more than a couple hundred standing against the more than 30,000 + who yearly 'Walk With Israel' through the streets of my city Toronto, 'the most Zionist community in the world',....

Approximately 200,000 Jews live in the greater Toronto area so 30,000 is just a small minority of the Jews who live in Greater Toronto and many of the people "walking with Israel" may not be Jewish. I think it's safe to say 100% of them are Zionists. What is the benefit of conflating Zionism and Judaism? I think conflating Zionism and Judaism is only detrimental. Who benefits from proclaiming that Toronto is "the most Zionist city in the world" when people understand that Toronto is being targeted because it is the most Jewish city in Canada?

NDPP

Netanyahu Urges Trudeau to Condemn Possible ICC Probe into Alleged Israeli War Crimes

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-netanyahu-trudeau-icc-p...

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made a personal appeal to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to condemn the International Criminal Court for taking a major step toward investigating Israel for alleged war crimes against Palestinians..."

 

'Canada is An Unwavering Friend of Israel'

https://twitter.com/KentThornhillMP/status/1210380519554404357

"That was last week Minister. How have you responded to Israel's request this week that Canada condemn the International Criminal Court's spurious 'war crimes' initiative?"

 

'Empowering Advocates For Israel'

https://twitter.com/AmdurNissan/status/1210586498195738624

"Always a pleasure to meet Daniel Koren and Hasbara Fellowships at Israel in Toronto. Their important work with university and high school students is highly appreciated."

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

Approximately 200,000 Jews live in the greater Toronto area so 30,000 is just a small minority of the Jews who live in Greater Toronto and many of the people "walking with Israel" may not be Jewish. I think it's safe to say 100% of them are Zionists.

That is 15% of that population. So when was the last time a GTA protest got a million people out to a rally. That is the comparative number for a "small minority" of the general population going to a rally.

Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:
'Canada is An Unwavering Friend of Israel'

">https://twitter.com/KentThornhillMP/status/1210380519554404357

Sometimes being a friend means telling the truth when your friend is behaving in a way that is destructive either to themselves or others around them.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

NDPP wrote:
'Canada is An Unwavering Friend of Israel'

">https://twitter.com/KentThornhillMP/status/1210380519554404357

Sometimes being a friend means telling the truth when your friend is behaving in a way that is destructive either to themselves or others around them.

True.  At this point, a more apt description would be "Canada and the U.S. are unwavering enablers of Israel".  For the Netanyahu regime, war and conquest are addictions.   All "the West" is doing is letting the addict sell the furniture to feed its addiction.