Petition for Arthur Cramer

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Misfit Misfit's picture
Petition for Arthur Cramer

We miss him.

Pondering

I don't think he is permanently banned but if so I will add my name to your petition.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I like AC. He's passionate about his politics but never said anything I found offensive.

 

 

 

I'm sure his banishment was overzealous.Hope to see him again soon.

nicky

Hear, hear !!!

As a wise poster said on another thread:

"Bring back Arthur!!! He's worth a thousand Ponderings, a million Debaters and more TerryTs than there are stars in the heavens."

I move that the moderators contact Arthur and invite him to return.

Jacob Two-Two

Well, within the confines of my limited knowledge about AC and his banning or not, I will add to the people saying that I'd like to see him back.

David Young

nicky wrote:

Hear, hear !!!

As a wise poster said on another thread:

"Bring back Arthur!!! He's worth a thousand Ponderings, a million Debaters and more TerryTs than there are stars in the heavens."

I move that the moderators contact Arthur and invite him to return.

I second the motion!

 

Unionist

Stop this foolishness. I argued endlessly with Arthur to get him to stay. He couldn't stand the provocations and baiting. Finally it penetrated my head that if he wanted to leave that badly, he had the right to do so. I will, however, reach out and see if he's ready to come back. But please leave the mods alone. And already this thread is turning into a dirty little pissing match of the usual kind. It's a wonder anyone would want to hang around here. A tribute to the invincibilty of the human spirit, perhaps.

Ken Burch

Thoughtful post, U.

How's Montreal this week?  Getting the "arctic air" blasting through like the rest of the continent?

Unionist

Yes. Ugh. And walking is treacherous.

Slumberjack

Aside from his politics, I like Arthur.  It seems that the back and forth that comes from being involved in party political discussions is frustrating business at the best of times.  Certainly, the individual can't be faulted for stepping away from it all.

zerocarbs

Oh man. Arthur C got banned? I don't think I agreed with most of his stuff, but at least I could understand it. I've self-banned myself for a couple of months, so have no idea what the the issues were/are. But arguing about the correct way to argue has always been one of the worst features of this place. If there was some sort of leftie panel that that had more than a half-dozen posters, I'd be long gone...

Sean in Ottawa

I heard from Art who told me he would like to come back. While I had not intended to post now, I feel obliged to as I can and he cannot. In my case, my not posting is not a moderator decision.

I saw the thread about me and speed Time Bandit responded -- I have no interest in reading what else I missed along that line. I recognize it is not productive to argue even if the point is a twisting of what I said or an over-the-top attack. The way out of that catch 22 is not to read or post and I am okay with that.

But when it comes to Art or anyone else who has been banned and wants to post, I think it does not help to keep off opinions that are controversial, different from the orthodoxy, provocative or even aggravating. A discussion group is boring with out that and lacks the intellectual honesty that comes from being challenged. Banning may be essential sometimes but it is an extreme that should be avoided if possible and short term if it cannot be. Perhaps this one can now be reversed.

In each person we interact with there is a personal context that we do not know. This is all the more true online. These contexts change. As well, we all have different ideas of what fundamental justice and fairness looks like. Some of us respond very strongly, perhaps too strongly, when we see this breached -- that might be the common ground here. Art is one of those passionate people and he has a lot to offer you.

There would be little left of your community if everyone who had ever responded badly had been edited out of the discussion. I think there are very few of you who could claim to have always followed policy and always maintained the necessary respect for others.

Happy New year to all of you.

janfromthebruce

Please let Arthur come back. Art was banned and it was not self imposed. Thank you for listening and let's start the new year by being inclusive. Thanks babble.

NDPP

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

 

But when it comes to Art or anyone else who has been banned and wants to post, I think it does not help to keep off opinions that are controversial, different from the orthodoxy, provocative or even aggravating. A discussion group is boring with out that and lacks the intellectual honesty that comes from being challenged. Banning may be essential sometimes but it is an extreme that should be avoided if possible and short term if it cannot be. Perhaps this one can now be reversed.

There would be little left of your community if everyone who had ever responded badly had been edited out of the discussion. I think there are very few of you who could claim to have always followed policy and always maintained the necessary respect for others.

Happy New year to all of you.

Happy New Year to Arthur and you Sean. I support you in these thoughts. Both you and Arthur should return. And also M Spector, Northern Shoveler, Kropotkin, Fidel, Merowe, Frmr Soldr, and anyone else who may wish to return and contributions they wish to make. Some people have been 'disappeared' without the rest of us even knowing they're gone, or why. History is happening. It requires discussion, analysis, response. The board is poorer for their/your absence...

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Arthur's suspension has been lifted, at his request, and he can come back and post as he wishes.

And thank you NDPP, as always, for injecting some much-needed humour into this thread.

6079_Smith_W

Be careful what you ask for.

(edit)

Never mind that there seems to be a bit of blurring between free expression and and being a jerk (including some who are more than happy to shout others down),

I can think of a number of names that never seem to get mentioned every time this gets brought up, either because they probably aren't the kind of challenge that these campaigners want, or they are one of the many who for wnatever reason decided to walk away, but don't fit the martyr's suit.

 

 

 

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I want to thank everyone for their kind expressions of support. I have given my committment to adhere to board norms. I am going to put this behind me and move forward. Happy New Year to all of my Babble Comrades; this year will no doubt be "interesting". to say the least. Again, my humble, sincere and grateful thanks to everyone and best wishes to you and yours for a splendid 2015! I'm very happy to be back. Cheers!

Unionist

Aristotleded24

Welcome back Art. Nice to hear from you! Looking forward to hearing who you think should be Premier on March 8th! :)

6079_Smith_W

Yeah,  welcome back.

In case it isn't clear, my concern is less with those who honestly want to come back and more with the over-the-top rhetoric we get treated to every time someone decides to storm the Bastille.

It kind of begs the question... has there ever been such a case in which that door has NOT been reopened?

(Speaking as one who helped in such an endeavour not too long ago)

Pondering

Welcome back. I will try not to aggravate you. Smile

Slumberjack

Then stop being a Liberal.

lagatta

I'm nursing a hurt knee and ankle. I fell on some ice that seemed to be coated in a bit of melted water, and my knee got hurt by the gravel the city had put down to create some traction. It is very difficult just running errands.

And no, I was not wearing high-heeled boots like the lady in this photo: http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/votre-opinion/201501/06/01-4832994-janvier...

swallow swallow's picture

Welcome back Arthur, get well soon lagatta!

rhubarb

Welcome back Arthur, I have read your posts in the past and appreciated them.

Unionist

Old thread. Anyone hear from Arthur lately? And how is everyone else doing in these interesting times?

 

MegB

I haven't heard a peep from Arthur for quite some time. We're well. Working for years in an online environment in a virtual office has made the transition from face to face to videoconferencing relatively easy. Activism has slowed with no disruptions, rallies or marches to organize or participate in, but I'm appreciating the break. More family time at home (so far no one has been killed in their sleep, so it's all good), spending time baking bread, cooking, cleaned out the fridge and pantry, going to be painting the house in the coming weeks. How're you doing Unionist?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..glad you dropped by unionist. was wondering about you with those high numbers for que. 

..same old same old here. slow, steady and isolated. will do a food and med run next week seeing thing are partially openg up here in mb. see how that goes. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I"d really like to say that I am doing ok aside from my tooth which still hasn't been fixed. Our dentist offices formally opened yesterday except for the one that I have my name on the waiting list with. They don't have PPE's for their staff yet. So I'll try not to get mouthy.

I want to say that I am very upset with the termination of Sean. I understand that he got very angry with the moderator and that he spoke his mind.

i want to say that it is no surprise to anyone that Sean is going through a very difficult time. He has clearly articulated all the stresses and frustrations that he is experiencing right now. He was laid off from his job, his EI ran out, he does not qualify for the government support programs for people in need. He actively solicited politicians to get  amendments to the program which still left many vulnerable Canadians without financial coverage. He cannot qualify for social assistance because he owns a home.  He cannot sell his home because there is a pandemic and people are social isolating and homes are not selling. We have heard of his stress looking for work. I can go on but we all know that Sean is going through a very bad time.

I cannot think of anyone who can analyze political statistics and voter trends right down to the constituency level and for every constituency in the country better than Sean. I don't know of anyone who can articulate with such thoroughness and rich clarity better than Sean. I don't know of anyone who will sit down and do the mathematical formulations on a state by state basis south of the border better than Sean. In fact, I think that he is the only one that I know of on this board who studies the numbers like he does. His analysis and trends are always well grounded and carefully articulated. He understands the American political  system and how they think and maneuver. You don't have to always agree with him, but his analysis is always sound and very wise.

But Sean is gone now. He is our friend and he has always been an ally for those who are the most vulnerable in society. He has always worked hard to make our country a better and a more just place. 

He has been a vital contributor to this board for over 17 years and has always dedicated a lot of his own time and energy to help us understand demographic trends and political strategies during elections.

My tooth means nothing to me right now. We have  just lost someone very special and st a time when he is personally struggling and when he needs our support the most. I cannot adequately express my deep shock and devastating disappointment and horror at the decision to terminate him.

I have soul searched as to whether I want to even continue with this board anymore. My departure would mean nothing. Sean, however, was a vital asset to this board and his termination has left a void that cannot be replaced.

He will be sorely missed.

Misfit Misfit's picture

I just love the Rabble spirit. When someone has  been sucker punched by an unjust government and in a way that resoundingly highlights our nation's poverty of humanity the policy here is to kick him in the back when he is down.

That was a sound kick!!!

You really got him good!!!

Yup, that will teach him!!!

Webgear

What happened to Sean?

Douglas Fir Premier

Unionist wrote:

Old thread. Anyone hear from Arthur lately?

He's still active on twitter.

Paladin1

Misfit wrote:

He will be sorely missed.

I'm surprised and saddened to see he's gone from here. More than once I can remember Sean putting me in my place and showing me why I'm wrong about something and I'd just sit there and think, fuck, he's right. Maybe laugh a little then conceed he's right. He was always humble about proving me wrong too. Sean, like a few others here, have a great ability to seperate issues agreeing and disagreeing wih people equally and without making it personal.

 

 

Mobo2000

Yeah, me too.   Didn't agree with Sean all that often and his epic posting style was occasionally a tough slog, but I enjoyed and appreciated his voice here.   Nobody is at their best now.  I hope everyone chills out a bit over time and that we will see an eventual return.

Glad to see unionist and some of the other old timers posting and alive and well  :)

MegB

I agree that Sean made excellent contributions over the years, but whenever I tried to reign him in during his epic battles with other posters he became angry and insulting. I've taken abuse from him and others over the years and, I'm sorry, but this is my workplace. I'm not being paid a pittance to be shit on. We, not very long ago, had 12 hours per week paid moderation time. We now have four. That's why there are gaps in consistency. That's why it sometimes takes me a while to address a problem. Sean felt that I played favourites, which isn't actually true. I'm not buddies with anyone here - bad behavior get called out regardless of how I feel about any given individual or how much I appreciate their contributions. Sean got angry because I refused to take his side in his dispute with another poster - I held them equally responsible for derailing threads with their toxic exchanges. He denigrated the work I do, told me about all the people who hate me, and was basically a raging bully.  He said, go ahead, ban me. So I did, with great reluctance even though he was abusive, not just in this instance but several times over the years.

I do not enjoy banning people, but this needs to be a place where ideas and respectful discourse flourish. Bullying will not be tolerated. Abuse will not be tolerated. And I will not tolerate my workplace being made toxic.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

 ..the issue was derailing threads. sean, imo, saw something else so never addressed that. and continued to push meg. 

..i saw this coming a mile away. it's something that has been played out over and over for years. you step back from the brink or not. sean had a choice..rough patch or not. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

p.s...it doesn't have to mean he's gone forever. it could mean a time out.

Unionist

Here I am again. Strange place to do so, but just wanted to make sure everyone is well - I am! and still active, given the circumstances. Any word from Arthur? Sean? C'mon, talk to me lol!

Pondering

Welcome back. I am happy to see you. Cramer has been gone for a long time now. Sean not so long but he had a difference of opinion with Meg which ended in her granting him his wish. So, that did not end well. I hope he will make peace with Meg and return. 

You have been gone so long you missed my transformation into a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

 

Unionist

Pondering wrote:

Welcome back. I am happy to see you. Cramer has been gone for a long time now. Sean not so long but he had a difference of opinion with Meg which ended in her granting him his wish. So, that did not end well. I hope he will make peace with Meg and return. 

I hope so too.

Quote:

You have been gone so long you missed my transformation into a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

Pondering!! Really!!?? Not pulling my leg??? Get this: I joined the Green Party just so that I could vote for Dimitri! Hope that wasn't what jinxed him...

Good to see you again!

MegB

Unionist wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Welcome back. I am happy to see you. Cramer has been gone for a long time now. Sean not so long but he had a difference of opinion with Meg which ended in her granting him his wish. So, that did not end well. I hope he will make peace with Meg and return. 

I hope so too.

Quote:

You have been gone so long you missed my transformation into a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

Pondering!! Really!!?? Not pulling my leg??? Get this: I joined the Green Party just so that I could vote for Dimitri! Hope that wasn't what jinxed him...

Good to see you again!

Good to see you again Unionist. I too joined the Green Party just to vote for Dimitri. We came so very close to having an openly progressive socialist as a federal leader. 

Most people who are banned simply have to express a desire to be reinstated with an apology (if relevent to the banning) and a committment to follow babble's rules of engagement around productive ways to disagree. They can make such a request by using the contact link and it will make it's way to me. 

Pondering

Yes really, and as usual, I confuse people. I joined the Green Party but too late to vote for Lascaris. I started a thread called The Green Party coup thinking all the leadership candidates were farther left than the NDP. Lascaris and Paul being in the lead let me to look at them first. Lascaris was my first pick but I thought Paul was really good too but you know how withering Kropotkin can be. He soon disabused me of that notion. 

In any case I have not given up on Lascaris. As long as he remains a member of the Greens and keeps trying so will I. He had a webinar after the loss and he was very upbeat. Haddad stated another month and they would have won. I believe her. They were less than 2K away from winning and that was with May doing everything possible to the extreme of trying to have Haddad and Lascaris barred from running. 

The fight isn't over for them so it isn't over for me either. There is a new run of resolutions up for a vote between November and January to make to the floor for the next convention. I believe the membership is far more progressive than the leadership. 

If Paul were a charismatic uniter I would have doubts but she isn't. She's abrasive, self-righteous and self-congratulatory. 

cco

Welcome back, Unionist! Good to see you again.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Nice to see you back and hear that you are doing well, Unionist.

Aristotleded24

Hi unionist, welcome back. I do hope you stick around.

Ken Burch

Agreed with everybody else who said they're glad to see you, Unionist.

Unionist

Feeling warm and fuzzy. Thanks, everyone! I've missed you all.

Ken Burch

Pondering wrote:
 

You missed my transformation into a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

What, to you, is the distinction between being "an ecosocialist" and "a Lascaris ecosocialist"?

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:
 

You missed my transformation into a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

What, to you, is the distinction between being "an ecosocialist" and "a Lascaris ecosocialist"?

Lascaris identifies as an eco-socialist and I support his entire platfrom so I thought that makes me an eco-socialist. Shortly after I realized that it doesn't. Lascaris talks about heavy taxation which implies the survival of capitalism which I think eco-socialist are completely against. I realized that there must be some varience in what eco-socialists support. 

I decided I don't know enough about eco-socialism as a political theory to claim it without a modifier. Hence, I am a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

Ken Burch

Pondering wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:
 

You missed my transformation into a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

What, to you, is the distinction between being "an ecosocialist" and "a Lascaris ecosocialist"?

Lascaris identifies as an eco-socialist and I support his entire platfrom so I thought that makes me an eco-socialist. Shortly after I realized that it doesn't. Lascaris talks about heavy taxation which implies the survival of capitalism which I think eco-socialist are completely against. I realized that there must be some varience in what eco-socialists support. 

I decided I don't know enough about eco-socialism as a political theory to claim it without a modifier. Hence, I am a Lascaris eco-socialist. 

Thanks for the clarification.