Consciousness after death

111 posts / 0 new
Last post
Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Oh, do start on auras!  Laughing

oldgoat

I had my aura "packed" once.

yup

I don't know either, but it was a friendly gesture on the part on an in-law who was into that sort of thing.

 

Fidel

Some wonderful comments from Michael.

As for what happens after death, John Eccles wrote:

Quote:
"...we can regard the death of the body and brain as dissolution of our dualist existence. Hopefully, the liberated soul will find another future of even deeper meaning and more entrancing experiences, perhaps in some renewed embodied existence . . . in accord with traditional Christian teaching." --Evolution of the Brain, p. 242"

Sir James Jeans said that he thought the world wasnt so much a giant machine as it is a giant thought process. Jung wrote that the physical brain is perhaps a kind of transformer that allows our selves to manifest.

As a non-scientist, I can only guess that the dualism of the mind-body paradox might be no more unique in our reality than mass and energy coexist, or particle-wave duality, or the electric and magnetic field components of current flow through a conductor. The physical brain apparently has to obey certain laws of physics as they are known, and perhaps some laws which are not yet understood.

Fidel

oldgoat wrote:

I had my aura "packed" once.

yup

I don't know either, but it was a friendly gesture on the part on an in-law who was into that sort of thing.

Consider yourself lucky. Some in-laws can be psychic vampires.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Michael Nenonen wrote:
The more I've read, the less I'm convinced there's a fundamental difference between an NDE and our everyday experience.

Whether you accept the NDE as to having any substance or not,  is not the point, but that such conceptual differences do arise from perspectives about that process. So you look for some "universal relation" that does not disregard all the possibilities of race, religion, or gender, science in social constructiveness that conforms to responsible inquiry, but that we recognize "with respect" that each has come forward with a "gravitating experience" that forms the relations and future prospects toward that future.

I think in this way one does not find fault with anyone other then to know that forward looking processes contained toward the future are elements of the now. These shape those same prospective and possible futures. How could one judge another for what they them self can experience,  rests no differently then the realization that in life, new beginning,s happen everyday.

Your conclusions, "set the tone?" Scientifically, or not?

 

Kaspar Hauser

Spectrum: I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand your question.

 

Timebandit wrote: "Michael, you need to boil it down and make a point, not subject us to endless opinion articles."

 

Timebandit, if ever there was a subject that merited meandering, this is it.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Time traveler understood tone to be "his state of mind" he is in?  His feelings were predicated on other things and without speaking those feelings directly,  he revealed a posting. It was a conclusion drawn that set up the posting. His tone.

Acceptable or not to science, feelings can contain "no substance" to a man of science? Yet, how can "explicable thinking" that we use, use such an excuse without a science basis?Smile

martin dufresne

Why I have given up, by Susan Blackmore

Fidel

martin dufresne wrote:

Why I have given up, by Susan Blackmore

Darn!  Your story is probably all over the "Amazing" Randi's website for pseudoscientific skepdics and rightwing crackpots. Ta Susan.

 

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

As for what happens after death, John Eccles wrote:

Quote:
"...we can regard the death of the body and brain as dissolution of our dualist existence. Hopefully, the liberated soul will find another future of even deeper meaning and more entrancing experiences, perhaps in some renewed embodied existence . . . in accord with traditional Christian teaching." --Evolution of the Brain, p. 242"

That passage simply declares, out of thin air, that we have a "dualist existence" and that our death will result in a "liberated soul".  I can declare that we all have a quadralist existence...but that doesn't make is so.

Where is there one micro-tittle of evidence of a dualist existence?

______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Sven Sven's picture

martin dufresne wrote:

Why I have given up, by Susan Blackmore

Good stuff, Marty.  Thanks for that link.  I'm going to have to read more of her writings.

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Sven Sven's picture

Maybe Fidel was really arguing for the existence of a duelist, ala [url=The">http://www.mtwain.com/A_Tramp_Abroad/7.html][u]The Great French Duel[/url]

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/an_evening_with_james_randi_a... Blackmore:[/url]

Quote:
A life changing out-of-body experience whilst a student at Oxford sparked her interest in the paranormal and prompted her to pursue a PhD in parapsychology, but eventually a lack of positive results, as well as the discovery that researchers at Cambridge were obtaining such results by cheating, led Blackmore to become a sceptic. One might think that someone who started off earnestly searching for proof of the paranormal but changed her mind in the face of the evidence (or lack thereof) might be respected for having the strength of character to admit a mistake. But for Blackmore this was not the case. She spoke of receiving vindictive hate-mail from believers accusing her of being closed minded (the irony of this obviously having escaped the authors of such communications).

 

Sven Sven's picture

If just 10% of the world thought like James Randi, M. Spector, then our world would be immeasurably better than it is today.

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Fidel

I know I'll be sending her some nasty hate mail. It goes without saying. 

 

[url=http://www.examiner.com/x-16975-Grand-Rapids-New-Age-Examiner~y2009m7d21... 'Debunkers' and 'True Believers' discourage serious paranormal research[/url]

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

I know I'll be sending her some nasty hate mail. It goes without saying. 

Something like the following?

Dear Susan:

I can prove to you that the Flying Spaghetti Monster not only created the universe but also created itself prior to its own existence!!  The proof will require a twenty-year commitment on your part so if you're really interested in disproving my claim, then you'll promptly take me up on the challenge.

If you refuse to take me up on my challenge, well, then, that will be obvious proof that you are too scared to challenge my claim because you know it's true!!!

Bwaaahahahahahaha

Sincerely,

Fidel

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

[url=http://www.examiner.com/x-16975-Grand-Rapids-New-Age-Examiner~y2009m7d21... 'Debunkers' and 'True Believers' discourage serious paranormal research[/url]

When I was a young lad and thinking seriously about a career investigating paranormal claims, I invested in one of those foot-measuring devices you see in shoe stores.  My goal?  I wanted to prove, once and for all, that Sasquatch really does (or does not) have big feet.

So, with the arrival of my foot-measuring device in the mail, I got Sasquatch on the blower and arranged for a mutually agreeable time for me to swing by his place and get a foot measurement (he even offered to throw a couple of steaks on the grill and chill a few beers so that we could make an evening of it).

Well, then I started to think, "Geez, given that the world is neatly divided into "Debunkers" and "True Believers", I'm afraid people will laugh at me if I try to make a serious effort of measuring Sas's feet."

So, discouraged, I called Sas back and told him, "Let's just have the steaks and brewskis but let's forget about the foot-measuring thingy."

He was cool about it -- he had not skin in the game -- and we had a nice evening talking about our recent trips on UFOs and how our spirits will live on after our temporal bodies have died.

The sad thing?  I'm pretty sure his feet are about, well, too feet long and nearly a foot wide.  It would have been cool to write an academic journal article about that critical foot measurement, if it weren't for those derned "Debunkers" and "True Believers"!!!

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Fidel

They should write a book: D'bunkin the Abinormal by I.M. Siantist

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

 Maybe the Brain recieves a "different kind of shock therapy sometimes?":)

I mean sure part of the process is understanding what your doing. Figuring out why you say the things you do and why this reflects on,  all that came from before, to have thought about it now. Is it your thoughts you are speaking, or is it some eclectic group that is exchanging information that is relevant, or,  are they repeating a mantra of skepticism, so that they feel good about  belonging?:)

Anyway back-country talk and creative writing is a little different then presenting information for thought production. It's just another benign attempt at "practicing a tone" with out providing good information to consider?

Quote:

So who are we? We are the life force power of the universe, with manual dexterity and two cognitive minds. And we have the power to choose, moment by moment, who and how we want to be in the world. Right here right now, I can step into the consciousness of my right hemisphere where we are -- I am -- the life force power of the universe, and the life force power of the 50 trillion beautiful molecular geniuses that make up my form. At one with all that is. Or I can choose to step into the consciousness of my left hemisphere. where I become a single individual, a solid, separate from the flow, separate from you. I am Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, intellectual, neuroanatomist. These are the "we" inside of me.

Which would you choose? Which do you choose? And when? I believe that the more time we spend choosing to run the deep inner peace circuitry of our right hemispheres, the more peace we will project into the world and the more peaceful our planet will be. And I thought that was an idea worth spreading..Stroke of insight: Jill Bolte Taylor

So while we consider the content of brain matters and their relations, what relevance to emotive substance that course through the body, so to speak,  to thought processes embedded "in feeling about" that we not only say it has emotive substance, but also has an intellectual facet too, that is much finer. Much finer then the fluid that moves in ways that a endocrinologist might map.

Physiologically matter distinctions set to organs, and messages that move  the body can be "ancient exchanges in primitive anger issues," yet, it is in the heights of mental clarity that substance toward perfection is acceptable? Fight or Flight, but we are better then that, with our cognitive thinking capabilties? Much better then, animals?

How fine indeed substance then,  that we can clarify that "elements of science" can go from an almost gross state of existence( our evolutionary mothers and fathers) to attributes mistifying ether held in underlying mathematical schemes that only the smartest educated can see the truth?? Act responsibly? Oh, we see how that is played out.:)

Quote:
So I got up and I jumped onto my cardio glider, which is a full-body exercise machine. And I'm jamming away on this thing, and I'm realizing that my hands looked like primitive claws grasping onto the bar. I thought "that's very peculiar" and I looked down at my body and I thought, "whoa, I'm a weird-looking thing." And it was as though my consciousness had shifted away from my normal perception of reality, where I'm the person on the machine having the experience, to some esoteric space where I'm witnessing myself having this experience.Stroke of insight: Jill Bolte Taylor

Fidel

[url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090914172644.htm]Evidence Points To Conscious 'Metacognition' In Some Nonhuman Animals[/url]

 

Quote:
J. David Smith, Ph.D., a comparative psychologist at the University at Buffalo who has conducted extensive studies in animal cognition, says there is growing evidence that animals share functional parallels with human conscious metacognition -- that is, they may share humans' ability to reflect upon, monitor or regulate their states of mind.

 

Smith makes this conclusion in an article published the September issue of the journal Trends in Cognitive Science (Volume 13, Issue 9). He reviews this new and rapidly developing area of comparative inquiry, describing its milestones and its prospects for continued progress. . .

 

He says "comparative psychologists have studied the question of whether or not non-human animals have knowledge of their own cognitive states by testing a dolphin, pigeons, rats, monkeys and apes using perception, memory and food-concealment paradigms...

 

[url=http://www.stevens.edu/csw/cgi-bin/blogs/horganism/?p=20]Why Brian Josephson embraced ESP[/url]

 

Quote:
Sitting in the restaurant, Josephson looked as though he was trying to conceal his identity. His face was almost entirely concealed by his floppy white hat, thick black spectacles, shaggy hair and sideburns. He wore a black t-shirt bearing the digitized likeness of Alan Turing, another British prodigy whose relations with the scientific establishment were troubled (although for very different reasons. . .

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Spectrum wrote:
Fight or Flight, but we are better then that, with our cognitive thinking capabilities? Much better then, animals?

Hi Fidel,

Interesting piece on the animals. Living with them for a majority of my life I do not think them "less then" the standard of the human species. Yet, I do contend that the danger signals are closer to the surface for some animals then others at times. We are no different, when our emotive states can become unruly. It is very hard to "think clearly" sometimes when in such emotive charged states, that it has to be practised before hand that what existed "in memory" is met in different ways to prepare for the future and change that we want.

What came to mind quickly is when one of my dogs chooses not to want to go where we would like her to go, when we have to leave. We find this characterization in her very amusing and one would think there is some cognitive abilities there.:)

Rupert Sheldrake has some interesting books about animals that are worth reading. I have one in front of me right that you might find interesting, called, "Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home."

Fidel

I'll look for it, Spectrum. I've always enjoyed dogs. Right now I have an 18 year-old cat that walks on my keyboard and paws me to the point of distraction. He anticipates that he'll be fed if he persists. Right now he's staring at me, willing me to go to the fridge and pull out some canned fish or something. And if it's not what he wants, he comes back right away to let me know.

martin dufresne

Awesome Fidel, my Coucoune is doing the very same time as I type! Could it be... synchronicity? Is your cat's bubble reaching out on the Web and pollinating mine, I mean that of my minou?

 

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Martin it's about what your doing "now" that has an affect on the world.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:
String Theory, Universal Mind, and the Paranormal *

 

Brian D. Josephson

Department of Physics, University of Cambridge

A model consistent with string theory is proposed for so-called paranormal phenomena such as extra-sensory perception (ESP). Our mathematical skills are assumed to derive from a special ‘mental vacuum state’, whose origin is explained on the basis of anthropic and biological arguments, taking into account the need for the informational processes associated with such a state to be of a life-supporting character. ESP is then explained in terms of shared ‘thought bubbles’ generated by the participants out of the mental vacuum state. The paper concludes with a critique of arguments sometimes made claiming to ‘rule out’ the possible existence of paranormal phenomena.

Yes apparently he has met with much disdain, even though his scientific principles seem to be still intact? That is a "matter of opinion" of course in their community.

The Squid is an interesting piece of equipment, in that the sensitivity of brain workings seem to be measurable to some degree? MRI.s

When doing some research into Thomas A. Harris,M.D. book I'm Okay Your Okay(In reality, however, the reported episodes of recall occurred in less than five percent of his patients, and these results have not been replicated by modern surgeons,)1 I saw some interesting correlations to Venn diagrams that I thought would work indeed in how we can "cloud the circles of our "child, adult and parent" that one would wonder indeed what it is that is original and what passes from our parent to our voices in the current days(Susan Blackmore and Memes)? Why we fall into our childish behaviours? The struggle then is to move toward an adult to adult relationship, whether in "scientific garb" or not.

Well what work went into this research psychology was the beginning of Penfield's work was to probe the brain for results from electrical stimulation. Think today then, that inducement of particular results in frequencies on the brain would have it's affect from Persinger's own research for one to consider "the influence these fields" can have.

The God spot?:)

1-Quote from Penfield wiki

Fidel

Well here's a deeply thread of an unfinished state of affairs.

Sven wrote:
So, with the arrival of my foot-measuring device in the mail, I got Sasquatch on the blower and arranged for a mutually agreeable time for me to swing by his place and get a foot measurement (he even offered to throw a couple of steaks on the grill and chill a few beers so that we could make an evening of it).

Well, then I started to think, "Geez, given that the world is neatly divided into "Debunkers" and "True Believers", I'm afraid people will laugh at me if I try to make a serious effort of measuring Sas's feet."

I think it was Aristotle who first mentioned atomic structure of a sort and beyond which nothing could be reduced further. The idea of indestructible and irreducible bits of matter held until Bohr and Heisenberg etc. Some physicists believe today that atoms are tiny models of the universe around us, and perhaps even multiple universes in what is an ever expanding ocean of universes.

And I think that the issue of how or whether consciousness can be measured still eludes scientists and philosophers today. Can brain cells generate more than just proteins? Are millions of interconnected brain cells capable of generating consciousness, or are they just miniaturized protein factories? If consciousness can be found by reduction of grey matter to its fundamental atomic physical structure, then where is it located in the brain's cells? Canadian neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield searched for the part of the brain responsible for human consciousness but never discovered it. PET scans today are capable of indicating which areas of the brain become active and increasingly consuming glucose or oxygen and vice versa when the person is thinking certain thoughts. Our thoughts are who we are and become central to relationships and daily life.

Penfield said he could induce certain memories in his subjects by stimulating parts of the brain. But he never found where I am is located.

Perhaps it's as Descartes and Plato believed, that our consciousness and physical brains are two separate things. I certainly would not expect that an electronic computer is capable of thinking human thoughts or be consciously aware of what's happening around it even if it does have camera providing a window into its inanimate soul. At least, not at this point in time.

My desktop PC is just a machine that requires an operator for it to be useful and generate meaningful information that matters to me, whoever me is. And I can not be sure that a clump of grey matter in my head is not just a computer of sorts. Like Penfield and Eccles, and now Sam Parnia, I don't really know who the operator of my body's computer might be, or whether he or it will survive a hardware failure some day. Perhaps as Sam Parnia hopes will become the case, someday medical science will understand better how to fix both the computer and its programmer, whoever the programmer might be.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Fidel wrote:

I think it was Aristotle who first mentioned atomic structure of a sort and beyond which nothing could be reduced further. The idea of indestructible and irreducible bits of matter held until Bohr and Heisenberg etc. Some physicists believe today that atoms are tiny models of the universe around us, and perhaps even multiple universes in what is an ever expanding ocean of universes.

[...]

And they tried to tell me my taking a class in pre-Socratic Greek Philosophy was pointless...

The atomic theory is usually credited to Leucippus, and its elaboration on his pupil Democritus. Aristotle would have been well aware of it though.

Fidel

Thanks bagkitty.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

You are quite welcome... you have no idea how much of a kick I got from being able to contribute that little nugget of knowledge... I have tried passing on similar tidbits of information at regular social functions... you should see the look of relief on their faces when I go out to have a cigarette.Laughing

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

I thought "Lost" had a spectacular finale.

 

 

remind remind's picture

Never saw 1 episode of Lost, thought I would save myself the blessing of being able to see the reruns as if they were something new and special, in my old age.  So don't tell me the ending....

 

Said the same thing about Seinfeld too though and never even watched it in reruns, suppose I will have to watch the second run of reruns....

George Victor

Define "old". Surely you're jumping the gun a tad, remind? Maybe by the third run...? You demonstrate an acutely conscious state by setting them aside for now.

Fidel

So if Lost is anything to go by, we have the option of exploding a nuclear bomb in order to cancel this path and plane of existence and thereby changing our destiny. Is that right?

Jingles

I never watched the series, but I watched the final. Are the writers all fundamentalist Christians or somethings? Doc was Jesus, battling and vanquishing evil, then sacrificing himself for the others, then rising from the dead to ascend into heaven to be with his father. A touch derivative, no?

It would have been much better if, while in the church, someone went to a jukebox and started playing "Don't Stop Believing". 

Fidel

[url=http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/there+life+after+bodily+death/276... there life after bodily death?[/url] A.J. Ayer's near-death experience

remind remind's picture

George Victor wrote:
Define "old". Surely you're jumping the gun a tad, remind? Maybe by the third run...? You demonstrate an acutely conscious state by setting them aside for now.

Good question George, as I hang out with a 84 year old who has more get up and go, than most teenagers these days. and given she is several decades older than I,  guess I won't be old then either.  :D

*shrug*

Guess I just won't get a chance to watch 'em.

 

Life after death?

 

Most certainly........

Merowe

hm, just found this thread. I like Michael Nenonen's ruminations on consciousness. I may have been stoned on pot when I figured out that the glint of recognition one experiences when scanning the eyes of a passerby - in the act of passing by - isn't merely one hairless monkey determining the threat or copulation potential of another - but is, on a more fundamental level, consciousness recognizing itself: the consciousness one seeks to find in the other pair of eyes is not the individual consciousness of a given personality but rather, one's own consciousness seeing itself in the consciousness of the other...a mutual recognition of a shared attribute. The universe connecting with itself, through the medium of our consciousness. No...universal consciousness, reconnecting with itself through the transient medium of the human mind.

Fidel
Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
So if Lost is anything to go by, we have the option of exploding a nuclear bomb in order to cancel this path and plane of existence and thereby changing our destiny. Is that right?

SPOILER ALERT:

Lost as in the emotive experience, as the "physiological and mental connection of being" winds down.

I thought what was very special was the recognition of all the memories traveling one path, all the fabrications of six years of Lost, to realize that they all could had been traveling in the after death consciousness. I mean, the fabrications of the island was a mass illusion, to support experience,  while all the emotions are played out with each of the persons involved "until they finally recognized each other enough" to gather one more time in the church.

What was special is that as each person is awakened to the reality of where they are, by thefinal  touch of love that connects the souls to that deeper level of recognition, while the memories of all that the had gone before was moved through flashes of realization that brought the experience together, culminating in the chance to go through the final gate to the light.

Picture of East door of the Baptistry, Florence, Italy - Free Pictures

The island was hell. To burn out the light was to extinguish any hope of the light to support the illusions of the island and of the life of those in the after death consciousness.

I mean there are a lot of discrepancies once you realize that not all the people are there. A plane did escape, yet, there is no record of those people, while the focus was on a core group. The main actors I guess.

Best,

 

remind remind's picture

Good thing I have never watched it so none of that makes sense....

jas

I would think that consciousness after death is very similar to consciousness before life.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:
Conclusion:The state of mind of the observer plays a crucial role in the perception of time.Einstein

Quote:
To make a very, very long story short we discovered via Christian Shephard aka Jack’s dead father that all of the people on Oceanic 815 including Desmond, Daniel, Charlotte, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Lapidus, Claire, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Richard, Michael, Walt, Miles, Ana Lucia, Locke, Hurley and Benjamin did really live on the island but when they died they moved on to L.A for their afterlife where they had the life that they always dreamed off. In The End we learned that those who did eventually find a way to forgive the people who hurt them , and forgave themselves were reunited with the people who meant something to them an went to heaven.</i>See:Lost Finale Explanation:Lost Purgatory Ending Theories

I think the journey to understanding the whole thing is to understand the "heaviness that supports the contention as gravity" is to evolve through the scientific understanding, as the ancients did,  looking toward cosmology.

CARL JUNG by Dr. C. George Boeree

That the continued evolution toward GR, is to solidify our understanding of the inverse square law of our positions in context of the life experience? Not just of the planets and galaxies held to the fabric of spacetime in the universe?

Quote:
The general theory of relativity is as yet incomplete insofar as it has been able to apply the general principle of relativity satisfactorily only to gravitational fields, but not to the total field. We do not yet know with certainty by what mathematical mechanism the total field in space is to be described and what the general invariant laws are to which this total field is subject. One thing, however, seems certain: namely, that the general principal of relativity will prove a necessary and effective tool for the solution of the problem for the total field.Out of My Later Years, Pg 48, Albert Einstein

If you were to believe that the "books of the dead" Tibetan or Egyptian were really about books of life, then in the case of the Tibetan, the "clear light" was preceded "by the lost in reliving experiences, as in the fog  of not understanding, or smoke, as in the show Lost. It is about moving toward that Clear light. That we could be lost for a time, and why, beside the death beds practitioners would help the soul travel through the ether of being of the experienced that they gained in life.

The Hall of Ma'at

Quote:
If the heart was free from the impurities of sin, and therefore lighter than the feather, then the dead person could enter the eternal afterlife.

If you take this last ancient plate and the wording below as to the experience one can have, it does not seem to unlikely that our way in the after death world can be constructed according too, the heaviness with which we can experience life emotively. If you understanding Einstein's conclusion,  as to the pretty girl and the hot stove,  then you understand that experience can have it's durations too.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

jas wrote:
I would think that consciousness after death is very similar to consciousness before life.

With a jacket ready to be put on maybe. That once you do, you forget about the the way the other world works? The jacket could be a book cover in Benjamin's case

The Epitaph of Young Benjamin Franklin

The body of
B. Franklin, Printer
(Like the Cover of an Old Book
Its Contents torn Out
And Stript of its Lettering and Gilding)
Lies Here, Food for Worms.
But the Work shall not be Lost;
For it will (as he Believ'd) Appear once More
In a New and More Elegant Edition
Revised and Corrected
By the Author.

One, when put on,  we forget about the duration of time in experience and gravity?

Fidel

Something I did not realize is that Jains believe that the suture at the top of the head is the purest point of exit for the soul. One of their funeral rituals is to crack the top of the skull of a deceased family member to aid the person's soul to carry on its journey.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k]Singer and song writer Pamela Reynolds[/url](BBC YouTube) experienced a most vivid near-death experience while undergoing surgery to remove a deadly aneurysm at the base of her brain. She recalled seeing much more clearly than usual during her near death experience. Pam Reynolds is one of a rare group of people who have "flatlined" and lived to tell of their experience. Really amazing.

Merowe

How about those Blue Jays?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Heading Towards Omega  by Kenneth Ring

It's been sometime since I read the book, so when it came to mind, I thought I would just put it out here. Maybe some have read it?

 

Quote:
Dr. Kenneth Ring (born 1936) is Professor Emeritus of psychology at the University of Connecticut, and a researcher within the field of near-death studies. He is co-founder and past president of the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS) and is the founding editor of the Journal of Near-Death Studies.[1]

Ring was born in San Francisco, California and currently lives in Kentfield, California.[1] In November 2008, Ring visited Israel as part of a peace delegation and subsequently protested the Israeli air strikes on the Gaza Strip as completely disproportionate.[2]

Ring has written several books about NDEs, including Life at Death (1982), Heading Toward Omega (1985), The Omega Project: Near-Death Experiences, Ufo Encounters, and Mind at Large (1992), Mindsight: Near-death and out-of-body experiences in the blind (1999) and Lessons from the Light (2000). He is also the coauthor of Methods of Madness: The Mental Hospital as a Last Resort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Ring

 

Quote:
IANDS, the International Association for Near-Death Studies, Inc, is an organization for studying and disseminating information on the phenomena of the near-death experience (NDE). IANDS was founded in the USA in 1981. Today it has grown into an international organization, which includes a network of more than 50 local interest groups. IANDS also supports and assists near-death experiencers (NDErs) and people close to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IANDS

 

Quote:
[i]Contributions to the research on near-death experiences have come from several academic disciplines, among these the disciplines of medicine, psychology and psychiatry. Interest in this field of study was originally spurred by the research of such pioneers as Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, George Ritchie, and Raymond Moody Jr. Moody's book "Life after Life", which was released in 1975, brought a lot of attention to the topic of NDEs.[18] This was soon to be followed by the establishment of the International Association for Near-death Studies, IANDS, in 1981. IANDS is an international organization that encourages scientific research and education on the physical, psychological, social, and spiritual nature and ramifications of near-death experiences. Among its publications we find the peer-reviewed Journal of Near-Death Studies, and the quarterly newsletter Vital Signs.[10]

[i]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience#Research

 

As I am refreshing my mind, the info is helping. The distinction between near death and death, is held in context that the precursor is the ultimate end, yet, physiological function(mind/body) is reinstated.

Recently while doing some reading of Stuart Kauffman's entries on 13.7 blog,  the idea of a "Poised realm" made it's way into discussion as of conceptual interest to me. Some of you may even recognize some links in his current blog posting in the comment section that pertains toward a economic revision within our societies, that are needed. How this is achieved is of importance to me because it is a paradigm solution( a revolution) that will change the way economics is done, or, rather needed to be done. No fixed solution here just that it will need a multilateral thinking of many sectors of our knowledge apprehension in order to change the frustration felt in feeling powerless to economical adaption under the guise of capitalism.

best,

Pants-of-dog

If the mind could exist independently of the body, people would not have different personalities after suffering physical brain damage. The fact that they consistently do shows that the mind (if it exists) is inextricably part of the body, and as such, no dualism exists.

remind remind's picture

That is a erroneous binary and faulty logic.

 

Never heard of the Id, the middle conscious self and the super consciousness?

Pants-of-dog

remind wrote:

That is a erroneous binary and faulty logic.

 

Never heard of the Id, the middle conscious self and the super consciousness?

The id, ego and super ego are Freudian concepts about how the psyche is structured. I am sorry, but I do not see the relevance to my claim concerning the correlation between neurological damage and changes in mental states. I would be grateful if you could elaborate on your position. Thank you.

 

ennir

I knew a Tibetan Buddhist Lama who died sitting up in a meditation pose, his body did not decompose as bodies tend to do, in fact for the first week after his death his skin still had elasticity and when they picked up his body after 13 days for the cremation ceremony there was no bad odor.  I spoke to the funeral director and he said he had never seen anything like that before and was pretty sure that no other funeral director in Canada had ever had that experience.

This is not an unusual experience for Tibetans although it is hardly the usual one for them either but there is a term for it and those close to these beings understand the importance of sitting with the body during this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pages

Topic locked