Conservative leadership race #1

449 posts / 0 new
Last post
Sean in Ottawa

mark_alfred wrote:

The idea of willfully creating another entity to capture different parts of the market I don't think has happened elsewhere in PR run democracies.  IE, like Pepsi taking over and marketing both 7-Up and Mountain Dew to counter Coke taking over and marketing Sprite (not to mention Pepsi taking over Tropicana juices to counter Coke having Minute Maid juices).  Then maybe Pepsi could win majority market share with the combined sales of Tropicana, 7-Up, Mountain Dew, and of course Pepsi to counter Coke.  So, perhaps the Conservatives will come up with or take over current existing parties (IE, take over Progressive Canada Party, Libertarian Party, Christian Heritage Party and have them as brands to the umbrella Con party) to increase their overall market share in a PR system.  Yeah, I just don't see it happening.  I believe they would find it easier to simply work on rejigging their main brand rather than wasting resources on creating or taking over smaller brands and trying to build them up.  Plus supporting a party that's supposed to be a competitor is likely against some rule somewhere.

Sorry you have this backwards. They were two parties. They are uncomfortable together but reconfigured ONLY due to FPTP. That was exactly what the merger was all about. The only good argument for the merger was -- while we don't like each other we are dead in the water due to vote splitting under FPTP.

And absolutely they have been held together by the threat of FPTP. Remove FPTP and there is no force keeping them together. The fact that they would do better as two parties under PR is a bonus. They would be two parties even if they could only break even.

 

mark_alfred

I see.  You're saying they would split and go back to Reform and Progressive Conservative.  I did say that the right-wingers of the Conservatives may get upset and leave the Cons and create a more populist Wild Rose type party.  So I agree with you there.  I don't see the red tories of the Conservatives splitting off and forming another fiscal conservative social liberal party though.  That field is just too crowded with the current Liberal Party, and the Cons, for that matter.  The Conservatives had power for ten years, and yet abortion remained decriminalized and gay marriage remained legal despite their majority (IE, they didn't overturn the Civil Marriages Act and use the notwithstanding clause to overcome any Charter challenges).  So if anyone would be more likely to be upset with the Conservatives, it would be their social conservative wing, and not their red tory wing.

Sean in Ottawa

mark_alfred wrote:

I see.  You're saying they would split and go back to Reform and Progressive Conservative.  I did say that the right-wingers of the Conservatives may get upset and leave the Cons and create a more populist Wild Rose type party.  So I agree with you there.  I don't see the red tories of the Conservatives splitting off and forming another fiscal conservative social liberal party though.  That field is just too crowded with the current Liberal Party, and the Cons, for that matter.  The Conservatives had power for ten years, and yet abortion remained decriminalized and gay marriage remained legal despite their majority (IE, they didn't overturn the Civil Marriages Act and use the notwithstanding clause to overcome any Charter challenges).  So if anyone would be more likely to be upset with the Conservatives, it would be their social conservative wing, and not their red tory wing.

What I am thinking is that the membership may choose a slightly more progressive leader and if that happens the reform wing would live with it only if FPTP is in place but otherwise they would break off and go alone. There are a number of policies the more social conservatives and even some of the more fiscal conservatives have reasons to be unhappy. Add to this the dynamic of some right wing Candidates who likely would have a leadership career who otherwise would not ahve one and you have a dynamic that leads this way.

The whole thing starts with tensions and a realization if FPTP is gone that the hammer of keeping together is gone and they could even have a better shot apart.

mark_alfred

Okay, yes, I do agree with you there.  That's a distinct possibility if PR actually comes about.

Debater

Conservative party attracting unpleasant odours

Sat., Aug. 27, 2016

By Chantal Hébert

To openly call for the death of a prime minister goes way beyond venting. And for the Conservative party to play host on its Facebook page to an accumulation of such comments is astounding.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/27/conservative-party-attrac...

bekayne

Dr. Leitch's prescription: a Trump suppository

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/leitch-responds-survey-question-1.3746470

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/politics/kellie-leitch-barbaric-cultural-...

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/09/02/chong-accuses-leitch-of-dog-whistle-polit...

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/02/kellie-leitch-and-the-art...

But crying on TV about something you’re not actually sorry you did, and doubling down later in a grotesque questionnaire about every tiny resentment? I can’t imagine that. I’m all for Conservatives reinventing themselves into the admirable Red Tories of my youth. But the hard right of the party has cooked itself. It’s a boiled egg that went off in 2015. No one wants a leader like Leitch.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

There is a possibility of a third entity which could split the right wing vote even more. As so many of the voters are credulous, they would go for it. So far I have learned you have to be meticulous about paperwork and bean counting.

Debater

Deepak Obhrai has entered the race:

http://electdeepakobhrai.com/

Debater

Peter MacKay will not run for Conservative leadership

Sep 12, 2016

 

Former cabinet minister Peter MacKay says he will not run for leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.

"After much soul searching, advice from trusted friends, and weighing of the impact on my young family, I have decided not to seek the leadership of the party," the Nova Scotia native said in a release late Monday afternoon.

"I choose not to run at this time for some of the same reasons I stated when I chose not to seek re-election last year. My family is my number one priority."

MacKay said in the release that he mulled a leadership bid over the summer months but ultimately decided to step aside to allow others to run.

"In fairness to others declared, and those in consideration, I feel it is time to decide so as not to negatively impact others," he said.

The decision comes ahead of the Conservative party's caucus retreat in Halifax this week.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/peter-mackay-not-running-1.3758970

swallow swallow's picture

[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-peter-mackay-was-... Coyne's column on Canada's most over-rated politician bears repeating.[/url]

kropotkin1951

Kellie Leitch won't rule out Catholic immigration ban. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vmUidBxr2Y

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

swallow wrote:

[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-peter-mackay-was-... Coyne's column on Canada's most over-rated politician bears repeating.[/url]

Wow, Coyne uses all of his rhetorical artillery against McKay in this one. His conclusion:

Andrew Coyne wrote:
It seems unlikely that history will record this as the end of “the MacKay era.” It is difficult to speak of a MacKay legacy, or MacKayism, at least with a straight face. Indeed, it is difficult to recall much about him even now. Though not gone, he is forgotten. We shall look upon his like again.
That's got to sting.

bekayne

And it looks like Kevin O'Leary's going to run

mark_alfred

What a circus.

quizzical

bekayne wrote:
And it looks like Kevin O'Leary's going to run

i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.

he said he's been meeting with  possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.

Sean in Ottawa

quizzical wrote:

bekayne wrote:
And it looks like Kevin O'Leary's going to run

i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.

he said he's been meeting with  possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.

 

Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Apparently the IMF is mired in left wing ideology.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/conservative-leadership-hopeful-goes-afte...

What a diminutive,little,ideologue shithead.

This is why (along with the likes of Leitch) these people CANNOT be given power ever again. They all should move to Texas and suck on a big,long oil well.Get the fuck out of my country!

quizzical

your country?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Oh piss off quiz. Refrain from commenting about me. Fucking troublemaking idiot.

Sean in Ottawa

quizzical wrote:

your country?

The first sentence was the opinion expressed by Conservatives in the article. Was not stated as a fact he believes -- more ironic. Nobody here is calling the IMF left.

I think he means your country as well -- personalized because we are people. The IMF is not leftist and does not give a shit for people.

Anyway I read the comment differently than you did I think.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Thanks, Sean. You read my comment correctly.

Geoff

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

quizzical wrote:

bekayne wrote:
And it looks like Kevin O'Leary's going to run

i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.

he said he's been meeting with  possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.

 

Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.

He's not dangerous to Justin Trudeau. He's Justin's meal ticket to a second term.

Sean in Ottawa

Geoff wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

quizzical wrote:

bekayne wrote:
And it looks like Kevin O'Leary's going to run

i watched an interview with him on the week end. the one with the plane ride.

he said he's been meeting with  possible contenders over the summer at his cabin, and if he doesn't like the contenders he will run himself.

 

Years ago I would have welcomed someone like him as a person who could not get elected. The problem is that some of the unelectable people sometimes get elected. He is extreme right wing and dangerous. Of course there are others in the race that already fit that description.

He's not dangerous to Justin Trudeau. He's Justin's meal ticket to a second term.

People said this about Harper. Turns out he was dangerous.

They say that about Trump. Maybe unelectable but what if he gets elected?

I recognize he is a great foil for Liberals to scare NDP voters back to them but there are no guarantees.

Debater

Sean, I don't think Harper & O'Leary are comparable.

Harper was very smart and had political experience before he became PM.

O'Leary has no experience and is not as smart as Harper.

He also speaks no French.  That will be an issue in several parts of the country.

I do agree with you about Trump, though.  Trump has a chance of winning the Presidency.  In fact, the latest polling numbers show him going up and Hillary going down.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

First that schoolyard nerd Clement calls the IMF left wing,now we have this idiot.

The CPC is not a political wing of Parliament but a fringe far right insurgency whose only goal is to destroy Canada.

JKR

quizzical wrote:

your country?

During the last few days haven't you noticed the new guy on all of our coins and bills? I guess it his country now.

bekayne

alan smithee wrote:

First that schoolyard nerd Clement calls the IMF left wing,now we have this idiot.

The CPC is not a political wing of Parliament but a fringe far right insurgency whose only goal is to destroy Canada.

That looks like two penises getting married

Sean in Ottawa

bekayne wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

First that schoolyard nerd Clement calls the IMF left wing,now we have this idiot.

The CPC is not a political wing of Parliament but a fringe far right insurgency whose only goal is to destroy Canada.

That looks like two penises getting married

I'll leave it to others to argue this one.

josh

The man trying to bring Republican economics to Canada.

https://ipolitics.ca/2016/09/20/leadership-candidate-bernier-calls-for-e...

Debater

Chantal Hébert says that Peter MacKay's decision not to run for leader probably benefits Maxime Bernier the most.

quizzical

JKR wrote:
quizzical wrote:
your country?

During the last few days haven't you noticed the new guy on all of our coins and bills? I guess it his country now.

the rhetoric is just so divisive. i'll leave the privilege of expropriating aside.

i'm no fan of the Conservatives and our community is being split along these lines.  i just find "get the fuck out of my country" no different than fundamentalist christian intolerant rhetoric.

~

sorry Sean not the way i read it and read it.

 

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
That looks like two penises getting married

I just looked at my own hand, and it kind of looks like traditional marriage is actually a foursome, including one minor.  And one slightly weird one off to the side watching.

Debater

Andrew Scheer officially running to be Conservative leader

September 28, 2016

Quote:
Regina-Qu’Appelle MP Andrew Scheer is officially in the running for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.

The run was confirmed earlier this month by Postmedia and made official in an announcement by Scheer in Ottawa on Wednesday. 

In a press release, Scheer said, “our members and our supporters want a Leader who has always promoted and supported our fundamental Conservative philosophies and can bring our positive message of optimism and prosperity to a broader audience.”

He also mentions how he can unite all Conservatives as they seek to form government in the 2019 election. 

“I am excited about this challenge and look forward to the work ahead,” he said in the release.

A platform and further details on policy views will be made “in the coming months,” according to the release. 

Twenty Conservative MPs and Senators are listed as supporters of Scheer, including a handful from Saskatchewan.

http://leaderpost.com/news/politics/andrew-scheer-officially-running-to-...

josh

Bernier to release the Republican, err, "Responsible" Income tax cut plan:

At one point in the book, Bernier argues that "discrimination based on income is no more defensible than discrimination based on religion" 

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/06/that-time-max-bernier-equated-taxes-with-...

 

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Bernier to release the Republican, err, "Responsible" Income tax cut plan:

At one point in the book, Bernier argues that "discrimination based on income is no more defensible than discrimination based on religion" 

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/06/that-time-max-bernier-equated-taxes-with-...

 

The comment shows what a quack he is.

Problem is quacks can still be successful in politics -- unfortunately.

Debater

Steven Blaney & Andrew Saxton set to enter Conservative leadership race

October 11, 2016

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/former-cabine...

josh

@TonyclementCPC announces he is dropping out of the Conservative leadership race. #cdnpoli #cpcldrpic.twitter.com/YnDUaAjVuC 

 

 

 

swallow swallow's picture

Debater wrote:

Steven Blaney & Andrew Saxton set to enter Conservative leadership race

October 11, 2016

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/former-cabine...

Who?

And who???

 

josh wrote:

@TonyclementCPC announces he is dropping out of the Conservative leadership race. #cdnpoli #cpcldrpic.twitter.com/YnDUaAjVuC 

*falls asleep*

Debater

Tony Clement has dropped out because of financial difficulties:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tony-clement-dropping-out-1.3801305

Sean in Ottawa

swallow wrote:

Debater wrote:

Steven Blaney & Andrew Saxton set to enter Conservative leadership race

October 11, 2016

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/former-cabine...

Who?

And who???

 

josh wrote:

@TonyclementCPC announces he is dropping out of the Conservative leadership race. #cdnpoli #cpcldrpic.twitter.com/YnDUaAjVuC 

*falls asleep*

Blaney is the guy who introduced bill C-51.

Debater
josh
Debater

Blaney targets veiled voting, mulls using notwithstanding clause

Blaney takes a cue from Leitch’s ‘Canadian values’ wedge issue — and drives the wedge in further

Monday, October 24th, 2016

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/24/blaney-would-test-immigrants-to-preserve-...

Geoff

Debater wrote:

Blaney targets veiled voting, mulls using notwithstanding clause

Blaney takes a cue from Leitch’s ‘Canadian values’ wedge issue — and drives the wedge in further

Monday, October 24th, 2016

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/10/24/blaney-would-test-immigrants-to-preserve-...

Further proof that Conservatism is a barbaric cultural practice.

mark_alfred

Debater

Lisa Raitt to run for Conservative Party leader

Wednesday, Nov. 02, 2016

Veteran MP Lisa Raitt has announced she will join the Conservative leadership race.

Ms. Raitt declared her intentions to run for party leader in a Facebook announcement on Wednesday.

First elected in 2008, Ms. Raitt was a longtime cabinet minister in Stephen Harper’s government. She has served as natural resources minister, labour minister and transport minister, and recently stepped down as her party’s finance critic in preparation for her leadership bid. Ms. Raitt hails from Cape Breton, N.S., and represents the Toronto-area riding of Milton, Ont.

Her entry adds a more familiar name to a race that now includes 10 candidates: Chris Alexander, Maxime Bernier, Steven Blaney, Michael Chong, Kellie Leitch, Deepak Obhrai, Erin O’Toole, Andrew Scheer and Brad Trost.

-

Full article:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/lisa-raitt-to-run-for-conse...

cco

Kellie Leitch has become the first candidate to jump on the Trump train.

Quote:
"Tonight, our American cousins threw out the elites and elected Donald Trump as the next president," she said in a message to supporters. "It's an exciting message and one that we need delivered in Canada as well."

Leitch said she's bringing the same message to her campaign to be Canada's next prime minister, and said she's the only candidate who is "standing up for Canadian values."

swallow swallow's picture

Quote:
While Bernier’s consumer-focused libertarianism and Chong’s reform-minded conservatism are matters of public record, Leitch’s populism is palpably put-on, assembled out of whatever bits of flotsam surfaced in her campaign manager’s focus groups, from legalizing pepper spray to “dismantling” the CBC to screening immigrants for “anti-Canadian values.” For heaven’s sake, until about five minutes ago she was known as a Red Tory.

[url=http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/national/andrew+coyne+party+ideas+smal... Coyne: A party of big ideas, or small fears? Choice of direction open for Conservatives[/url]

Seems that Maxime Bernier, Steven Blaney, Chris Alexander, Andrew Scheer and Michael Chong are bilingual. The others, not so much. 

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Bernier on Leitch: "We don't need this karaoke version of Donald Trump" LOL.

josh

Said the northern version of Paul Ryan.

Pages