Demand for G-20 public enquiry, Part 3

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writer wrote:

[url=]Joint lawsuit planned for G20 arrestees[/url]: Overwhelmed with calls, Civil Liberties Association is working on suing police forces | Toronto Star

Just a friendly suggestion (I"m not a lawyer), and I don't want to deter anyone from posting, but for anyone contemplating joining this lawsuit, or other lawsuits - you might want to have a re-read of your online comments before posting them on the topic at hand. Definitely something to ask your legal counsel. 


I just read an interesting story from one of the people arrested for peacefully protesting. This is police state tactics nothing less. In the very near future I fear we will see a misguided youth shot dead in the streets.  Any inquiry needs to look at the international events that have given rise to this obsession with security.  In Vancouver in 1997 the APEC summit was protested peacefully. However people were arrested for merely standing on the the sidewalks with signs saying Free Speech.  There were also the more radical activists who insisted on not just standing on the sidewalks but trying to sit in the street to stop the dictators from parading though the streets of our democracy. Those "illegal" protesters were pepper sprayed and beaten with batons.  I was not in Quebec City but at every turn the security people have been given a free hand to turn our cities into totalitarian states when leaders from other countries come here.  I want to know why that is.

In contrast the rally that Libby was ambushed at did not involve any world leaders and marched through the streets of Vancouver with an escort of a few dozen cops mostly on bikes and primarily doing traffic control at intersections as the march progressed throughout the downtown.  What is it about having foreign leaders in Canada that makes our government go to measures that are never necessary for any other march.  For every escalation of fences and barbed wire there is a equal and opposite escalation of violent tactics raging against the police state.  The rest of the time we all protest and march and windows get broken more often after sporting events than at rallies.  Someone should be held accountable for the security strategy because it seems to provoke the violence by its in your face fascism.


I have to disagree tommy. This is the perfect solution for harper, everyone is worried about protesters and cops. The water gets muddy, the media complies with the cover up...a happy audience just happens to get a queenly visit 2 days later

Menawhile the big meeting to carve us up into smaller peices ISN't being talked about. This is not a victory. They have called for us to lose the little we have at the billion dollar buffet and no one is talking about it at all. Its not a win for Harper if people are outraged at us getting austerity while they wine and dine and give more tax cuts to the wealthy while we poor plebs are told to tighten our belts 3 or 4 more notches.

We get a pleasant distractuion or two that the media will drop in a few weeks without even being asked to.

If I thought we would actually see something come of police provacateurs or people changing their tune about our police state I would agree with you, but it isn't happening.


Well, since I'm not a Conservative or Liberal, I won't arrest you for disagreeing with me, Thorin.

Nobody but real dedicated wonks ever listens to anything that comes out of a summit.  If you think allowing Harper and the rest to have their say, and expect people to draw from that how they are being royaly screwed by these despoilers, then you have another think coming.    

What Harper wanted was the T.V. news for a day showcasing him and his expertise in economics hosting a thoroughly nice affair in Toronto.   With him shaking hands with Obama, punching Putin on the shoulder sharing a joke, and maybe an understandable faux pas when he takes Burlesconi's "niece" as an actual niece.


Stevie the control freak is freaking right now and has been all week because stuff got in the way of his carefully stage managed event.


And, I do think a rather larger number of people have had their eyes opened to our police state, it IS happening, Thorin.


But, this is all neither here nor there.   It's happened.   Heck, I could be wrong.   It happened once, back in the 80's, this could be another time I was wrong.  


So, whether we are trying to "exploit a victory" as I see it, or "make lemonade from lemons"  I suggest we both get squeezing. Well, you should get squeezing.   I'm not sure what I should be doing.... my metaphore kinda fell apart at that point.






Catchfire wrote:

You have a fairly narrow view of how the left characterizes the police. Here's a hint: most don't consider them allies, and many don't feel they are essential to civic infrastructure at all. They view them as stewards of state power, not of its citizens. And before you marginalize those views as "anarchists" or whatever, they are held by a large array of viewpoints across leftist thinking. "Straight faces" notwithstanding.

And to be frank, I am getting quite creeped out by your repeated attempts to smear my views of violence as a protest tactic. I've been quite clear on how I view the subject, through PM correspondence with you and through my posts over years and years on babble. Yet you continue to suggest that I have some sort of tacit support for what happened this weekend in Toronto, and likewise insinuating that I support the RBC bombing. I can't believe that a postdoc has such poor reading skills, so I can only assume you are doing it deliberately. It's the same tactic you take in your repeated harassment of statica on her blog, and it's disgraceful. You are welcome to your views, as sheltered and as myopic as they may be, naturally, but when you begin to engage in wormy smears of my beliefs and character, it's unacceptable. Stick to the issues and leave the psychoanalysis at the door.

May I humbly suggest that.... er.... you are attempting to insult me?  Of course, this doesn't bother me in the slightest... but I must say - perhaps it's because I haven't been babbling as long as some of you, but Catchfire, your views on violent tactics/tacit or explicit support for them, etc. are in fact, not clear to me.  That's why I asked - and that's why I asked Krystalline, as well.  You both seem to be taking those inquiries quite personally, and are quickly dismissing the inquiries - Krystalline accused me of insinuating she supported the RBC firebombing, something I never even hinted at.... likewise with you - this is an unwarranted suspicion... What I'm interested in is engaging in dialogue around violent tactics, and with respect to this thread, issues to do with attitudes and police related to violent tactics and spectacles... because it's obvious from my contributions on babble that I think these tactics are not helping 'us' (left, green, indigenous) activists at all, where nonviolent tactics and their assistance in building mass movements will... And in a simple sense, smashing, hitting, throwing stuff, pushing someone (including a police line), destroying, etc. are all violent tactics..

Please don't take things personally.... I'm interested in probing these issues because I think they're critically important...



p.s. roger that on the not-as-many-hyperlinks - and I'll avoid links, rather perhaps refer in writing to, my blog...(where relevant/appropriate).  I don't think you answered all my questions there, this is ok with me...  



No Yards wrote:

Same goes foe the police ... they do not deserve respect, they earn respect (being held accountable is a totally different issue, and has absolutely nothing to do with "deserving" respect, we can hold people accountable whether we respect them or not) ... they lost any so called "right" to respect this weekend when they abused their powers. No one abusing their powers "deserves" respect, and anyone that suggests such a thing doesn't have a fucking clue as to the meaning of the word respect.


As soon as we start believing that some group of people "deserve" respect, we become at best suckers, and at worst stupid people setting ourselves up to be abused.


There's a contradiction here (in terms of the issues) - I think one contradicts themselves if one says they do not respect police... when in fact, everyone relies - at every second of every day - on the protective services that the police provide in our communities - in a similar way, again, that we rely on water infrastructure or electricity infrastructure... 

It is somewhat contradictory to be taking this protection/critical public service for granted (assuming it, effectively respecting it tacitly) and yet deride the police as not worthy of our respect when episodes of abuse of power come up - these of course must be investigated and people held accountable - including eminently at the g20... 


You're right Adharden we rely on the police everyday for their protective services and generally they have been doing a good job in Toronto.  That is true for everyday with the exception if last weekend when the police deliberately did not protect our streets.  That's why there is a serious need for a public inquiry to find truth of what transpired last weekend.


                                               The turnout for the rally at Queen Park was pretty huge from what I could see. There must have been at least 2000 people , one of the speakers was a detainee who  wasn’t even protesting, but got arrested and detained for 36 hours, he talked about how many people including himself was deprived of food and water, he actually passed out at one point. He went on to propose to his girlfriend in front of everyone, it was pretty moving. There were many police officers, some were on their horses and there were a tense stand off between the cops and the protestors during the march when certain protestors tried to march on an unplanned route. A 77 year old man was pleading the officers to let them march and he talked about how the young people in the rally inspired him and made him feel young again, he talked about how he fought for unemployment insurance back in the days, it was very moving..i really enjoyed the march.


I think everyone here - despite what their fundamental attitudes toward police might be (hopefully respect, as I've argued) - would want to support the CCLA's push for a public inquiry - here's one of the most recent links:

And a related Toronto Star article:

I just hope that an inquiry would have broad enough powers so as to summon Harper and Co. to testify as to their orders.... to the Integrated Security Unit, etc.  


Any ideas floating around of how to try and get an public inquiry?

Like a 24/7 sit-in, where there are some politicians that might do something?

The inquiry needs to happen, but they want to block it, local, provincial, federal, TPS, OPP, RCMP, they all want to suppress it.

I bet they could get enough people to do some radical sit-ins, or what have you, to deliver information to a politico?

That police state attack, was trauma inducing. Those who were thrown in those cages, hopefully they are ok, PTSD could start setting in now for them, to get picked off the streets like that, and put into an urban Gitmo experiment.

This attack was a societal engineering project, to test things out, to give police live-training on live-specimens.

To engender fear of the police system, to scare journalists by arresting them, stripping them smashing their gear.

There has to be a way to force a public inquiry. They think if they ignore it, it will go away. I don't think so,  people are not going to let it go.




My facebook has been squeezing those lemons pretty hard, along with pinning the HST on both Harper and McGuinty. I had to laugh as one of my conservative friends comes barreling in leveling the tax tax tax accusation at the NDP so I linked a few articles on the devine gov introduction of the HST the romanow repeal of it and the subsequent reintroduction being"considered" in sask. Also thge fact the oil industry recieves 1.4 billion in subsidies yet is going to get a tax cut with record profits again , but we have to lose our programs.

Here is her reply



Yep never bothered to come back to debate.. I love debating her because she has no answers except one. Its just NDP propaganda, so this time I sent her links from the Van Sun and the National Post...I think she got tired of trying to ignore my G summit links this week. She believs the only use of tax dollars is for military and policing. Yet she and her child are at school while not working(her husband works in detroit) But I never call her out on basically(because she cant escape the HST or property tax and or licencse) being a freeloader on the canadian tax system she hates so much.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Long thread, closing. 


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