Ed Broadbent Joins "Free Meng Wanzhou" Group

30 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mighty Middle
Ed Broadbent Joins "Free Meng Wanzhou" Group

Nineteen former parliamentarians and diplomats say Justice Minister David Lametti should end extradition proceedings for Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou to give Canada a chance to "re-define its strategic approach to China."

In a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau dated June 23, the signatories say Canada has the legal right to intervene to free Meng and end the extradition trial that could send her to the U.S. They cite a legal opinion published earlier this week by Toronto-based lawyer Brian Greenspan.

The signatories say that releasing Meng could also free Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, the two Canadians who were detained in China shortly after Meng's arrest.

Among signatories on this letter is Liberals, Conservatives and one NDPer - Former Leader Ed Broadbent.

So anyone support Broadbent on his stance to FREE Meng Wanzhou?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/letter-release-meng-1.5625669

pietro_bcc

Nah, people who are government connected shouldn't be above the law. Let Canada's legal process play out, if you pay the ransom that only encourages more people to kidnap our citizens.

 

NDPP

Except it was Canada that 'kidnapped' first in  aid of the Trump administration's full court press anti-China campaign and allegations that Meng violated US sanctions against Iran. Releasing Meng is the only course of action that makes sense. Unless as seems clearly the case,  Ottawa is so servile and subservient to the American White House that such an independent decision is beyond the pale for Justin Trudeau.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

I agree with NDPP, this is not Canada's hill to fall on. Meng's evil deed is violating US sanctions against Iran. That is a shitty reason to aid the Trump administration or any government requesting extradition proceedings. And it's horrible that it resulted in the unlawful detention and unfounded accusations against two Canadians in China.

Mighty Middle

There are some experts on China who say releasing Meng Wanzhou would be the wrong thing to do because

1 - there is no guarantee that China would release the two Michaels, even if we send Meng Wanzhou back to China

2 - If we release Meng Wanzhou, China could start collecting other Canadians living China and start demanding Canada send Tibet freedom activists or Falun Gong activists living in Canada as an exchange. Where would it end?

melovesproles

Canada should never have arrested her. She broke sanctions on Iran that were the result of Trump's flagrant breaking of the previous administration's Nuclear deal. Only the most craven of client states would extradite her for this but we do seem to have the extradition laws of a colony. I agree that if we grow a backbone now it looks like we are just doing a prisoner swap but either way we look weak.

pietro_bcc

Meng is relaxing in her mansion and being afforded the same rights to challenge her extradition that every other person would get, OH THE HELL SHE LIVES!

Meanwhile the Michaels are being tortured every day waiting to be convicted by a kangaroo court.

Trudeau has been a supplicant for the Chinese government for his whole career and I'm glad he finally grew a backbone and is standing up against the kidnappers instead of apologizing. I agree with the senators who are pushing for this, time for Canada to set an example and impose sanctions on Chinese government officials.

melovesproles

pietro_bcc,

So you think Canada should be extraditing visitors who don't follow Trump's aggressive Iran policy? Would you also be in favour of extraditing Canadian citizens for the same "crime"?

Mighty Middle

Tom Mulcair was just on CTV Power Play and says the government needs to let Meng Wanzhou go, echoing what others have said on this thread. This is not our fight.

NDPP

WATCH: "Michael Kovrig's wife, Vina Nadjibulla, says she 'absolutely' agrees with the letter to the prime minister, penned by 19 prominent Canadians, that calls on the minister of justice to end the extradition proceeding against Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou."

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1276263872417148931

pietro_bcc

melovesproles wrote:

pietro_bcc,

So you think Canada should be extraditing visitors who don't follow Trump's aggressive Iran policy? Would you also be in favour of extraditing Canadian citizens for the same "crime"?

That's not what happened. She defrauded HSBC by claiming that money she was getting from the bank was for Huawei when it was really for Skycom. Lying to the bank to violate the Iran sanctions. When you lie to the bank to get money that they otherwise wouldn't give you, that is fraud and if any of us lied to the bank to get a loan and were caught, we'd end up in prison too.

The degree to which some on the left go to bat for the Chinese because they call themselves communist is regretable. The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime.

Of course the wife of one of Kovrig is in favor of giving in to China. If he were one of my family members I would want the exact same thing, but "what if it were your son" isn't how diplomacy works. Because Trudeau has to worry about the next person who could be kidnapped for ransom. He's making the exact right choice.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

pietro_bcc wrote:

melovesproles wrote:

pietro_bcc,

So you think Canada should be extraditing visitors who don't follow Trump's aggressive Iran policy? Would you also be in favour of extraditing Canadian citizens for the same "crime"?

That's not what happened. She defrauded HSBC by claiming that money she was getting from the bank was for Huawei when it was really for Skycom. Lying to the bank to violate the Iran sanctions. When you lie to the bank to get money that they otherwise wouldn't give you, that is fraud and if any of us lied to the bank to get a loan and were caught, we'd end up in prison too.

The degree to which some on the left go to bat for the Chinese because they call themselves communist is regretable. The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime.

Of course the wife of one of Kovrig is in favor of giving in to China. If he were one of my family members I would want the exact same thing, but "what if it were your son" isn't how diplomacy works. Because Trudeau has to worry about the next person who could be kidnapped for ransom. He's making the exact right choice.

This really looks like a phony, political case to me. Yeah, they found a technical offense, but did HSBC really care whether the U.S. sanctions on Iran were being evaded? Did the bank lose any money on the deal? Did they complain to the FBI, or did the U.S. intelligence community come up with the complaint all by themselves? None of this passes the smell test, and Canada was very foolish to detain Meng in the first place.

As far as the 2 jailed Canadians are concerned, what makes you think they aren't actually low level spies? They both seem to have associations with organizations connected to U.S. foreign policy. The Chinese government may be totalitarian, but they are also intelligent. It would make sense for them to let a few minor foreign spies wander around, carefully watched, in case of an occasion such as this.

This case is not about right and wrong, or rule of law. It is about bare knuckle international diplomacy, and Canada has totally failed to comprehend that.

 

melovesproles

That's not what happened. She defrauded HSBC by claiming that money she was getting from the bank was for Huawei when it was really for Skycom. Lying to the bank to violate the Iran sanctions. When you lie to the bank to get money that they otherwise wouldn't give you, that is fraud and if any of us lied to the bank to get a loan and were caught, we'd end up in prison too.

So answer the question: if this was a Canadian citizen, hypothetically say Balsillie, would you support extraditing him to Trump's America?

The degree to which some on the left go to bat for the Chinese because they call themselves communist is regretable. The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime.

And by that logic, you are going to bat for Trump and the most hawkish rightwing Republicans. Why is that? The sanctions are clearly political. I don't know you but is that where your political sympathies are? 

Obviously China was going to retaliate, anyone who doesn't understand that is pretty clueless about international politics. Are you seriously surprised that there was retailation for a clearly politisized extradition? Your whole argument for extradition seems to be that you don't like the Chinese government.

The sad fact is Canada will extradite anyone the US wants. It wasn't that long ago we extradited one of our own citizens for selling marijuana seeds by mail. Did you support that as well? I am against extradition unless there is a very good reason for it. Violence against a community would be sufficent cause for me. Conservative and Liberal governments will send anyone here to an American prison regardless of how harmful the crime. Obviously there must be a lot of Canadians who support that-are you one of them? 

 

NDPP

After Trudeau's Toughest Talk, the Canada-China Meltdown Goes Radioactive

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-after-trudeau-s-toughest-talk...

"...There's going to be a hefty price to pay for this, of course. Lumber, lobsters, just about anything heading for China is bound to face closer scrutiny, paperwork slowdowns and perhaps outright obstruction to avenge Trudeau's position. New markets will need to be established to fill the trading void. This also appears to be the kiss of death to Huawei's plan to develop the 5G telecommunications network in Canada which will make things worse. The Canada-China relationship is clearly in meltdown mode and there's no stopping the damage from going radioactive now. Welcome to Canada's version of the China syndrome."

Good dog Canada. Washington will be pleased. Perhaps also JT's 'stand up to China' performance will make us forget all about Canada's last-place 'asset for Israel' UNSC finish. His ratings are already climbing some say.  And of course the usual pro-imperialist lib/left voices will cheer all this anti-China agit-prop on. Don't they always?

pietro_bcc

melovesproles wrote:

That's not what happened. She defrauded HSBC by claiming that money she was getting from the bank was for Huawei when it was really for Skycom. Lying to the bank to violate the Iran sanctions. When you lie to the bank to get money that they otherwise wouldn't give you, that is fraud and if any of us lied to the bank to get a loan and were caught, we'd end up in prison too.

So answer the question: if this was a Canadian citizen, hypothetically say Balsillie, would you support extraditing him to Trump's America?

The degree to which some on the left go to bat for the Chinese because they call themselves communist is regretable. The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime.

And by that logic, you are going to bat for Trump and the most hawkish rightwing Republicans. Why is that? The sanctions are clearly political. I don't know you but is that where your political sympathies are? 

Obviously China was going to retaliate, anyone who doesn't understand that is pretty clueless about international politics. Are you seriously surprised that there was retailation for a clearly politisized extradition? Your whole argument for extradition seems to be that you don't like the Chinese government.

The sad fact is Canada will extradite anyone the US wants. It wasn't that long ago we extradited one of our own citizens for selling marijuana seeds by mail. Did you support that as well? I am against extradition unless there is a very good reason for it. Violence against a community would be sufficent cause for me. Conservative and Liberal governments will send anyone here to an American prison regardless of how harmful the crime. Obviously there must be a lot of Canadians who support that-are you one of them? 

 

If Balsillie had committed fraud like Wanzhou did, yes I would be fine with him being extradited. Also you misunderstand, I'm not surprised that China kidnapped Canadian citizens for a political disagreement. Unlike everyone in the Canadian media I remember when Canadians Kevin and Julia Garratt owners of a coffee shop in China were arrested for spying in 2015. This isn't new, they always find phantom spies when Canada hurts their fragile feelings.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/12/17/chinese-arrests-evoke-bad-me...

"The Garratts speak from experience. The couple had been running a coffee shop in northeastern China in 2014 when they were seized by the country’s state security, becoming pawns in a high-stakes ploy by Beijing to prevent Canada from extraditing a millionaire businessman, Su Bin, to the U.S."

Oh look at that, China finding Canadian spies when Canada is about to extradite a Chinese millionaire to the US. If this were a TV show, the writers would be fired for being lazy and recycling plots.

 

 

 

NDPP

"How dare China think/treat our kidnapping as if it were a kidnapping..."

https://twitter.com/justinpodur/status/1276507864962674689

"In the imperial brain, 'they kidnap, we arrest', always."

NDPP

Trump Had Superficial, Transactional View of Meng Extradition Case, Bolton Tells CBC Radio

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/bolton-interview-trump-current-1.562...

"US president compared Meng Wazhou to Ivanka Trump, offered to resolve Huawei prosecution, Bolton claimed. 'He said to me at one point during the dinner, 'Do you realize you arrested the Ivanka Trump of China?

Aristotleded24

Michael Moriarity wrote:

pietro_bcc wrote:

melovesproles wrote:

pietro_bcc,

So you think Canada should be extraditing visitors who don't follow Trump's aggressive Iran policy? Would you also be in favour of extraditing Canadian citizens for the same "crime"?

That's not what happened. She defrauded HSBC by claiming that money she was getting from the bank was for Huawei when it was really for Skycom. Lying to the bank to violate the Iran sanctions. When you lie to the bank to get money that they otherwise wouldn't give you, that is fraud and if any of us lied to the bank to get a loan and were caught, we'd end up in prison too.

The degree to which some on the left go to bat for the Chinese because they call themselves communist is regretable. The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime.

Of course the wife of one of Kovrig is in favor of giving in to China. If he were one of my family members I would want the exact same thing, but "what if it were your son" isn't how diplomacy works. Because Trudeau has to worry about the next person who could be kidnapped for ransom. He's making the exact right choice.

This really looks like a phony, political case to me. Yeah, they found a technical offense, but did HSBC really care whether the U.S. sanctions on Iran were being evaded? Did the bank lose any money on the deal? Did they complain to the FBI, or did the U.S. intelligence community come up with the complaint all by themselves? None of this passes the smell test, and Canada was very foolish to detain Meng in the first place.

As far as the 2 jailed Canadians are concerned, what makes you think they aren't actually low level spies? They both seem to have associations with organizations connected to U.S. foreign policy. The Chinese government may be totalitarian, but they are also intelligent. It would make sense for them to let a few minor foreign spies wander around, carefully watched, in case of an occasion such as this.

This case is not about right and wrong, or rule of law. It is about bare knuckle international diplomacy, and Canada has totally failed to comprehend that.

I think if we allow ourselves to fall into dichotomous thinking of "USA bad/China good" or the other way around we miss the bigger picture. The fact is these issues have been intertwined for decades. Do you think US and European governments were unaware that China had massacared many of its own people in 1989 when trade to China was opened up in the 1990s? Why do you think businesses left the US to go to China? It was for lax labour and environmental standards. Do you think Western governments were unaware of these things as they pushed for more trade? Do you think they were unaware of the human rights abuses? Finally, most people cringe when they hear about the extent to which China spies on its own citizens. Who do you think helped them out? Many of the Big Tech companies based in Silicon Valley.

While the US is certainly the more powerful of players at this point, Michael is absolutely right. There are no clear-cut "good guys" or "bad guys" in this thing.

NDPP

US Government Plans 5G Market Intervention to Break Dominance of China's Huawei

https://on.rt.com/ake7

"...The White House reportedly planned a 5 G meeting for early April with Nokia, Ericsson, Intel, Microsoft and Samsung on how to combat the Chinese network-building giant Huawei. In its latest move, the US is trying to cut Huawei off from global semiconductor supplies..."

Why we kidnap.

melovesproles

If Balsillie had committed fraud like Wanzhou did, yes I would be fine with him being extradited.

Fraud to get around Trump's immoral Iran sanctions. Extraditing Canadians and visitors to Canada in support of Republican hyper-aggressive warmongering is not my cup of tea. Thanks for being honest but yeah I doubt we have a lot in common politically. 

eastnoireast

Michael Moriarity wrote:

pietro_bcc wrote:

melovesproles wrote:

pietro_bcc,

So you think Canada should be extraditing visitors who don't follow Trump's aggressive Iran policy? Would you also be in favour of extraditing Canadian citizens for the same "crime"?

That's not what happened. She defrauded HSBC by claiming that money she was getting from the bank was for Huawei when it was really for Skycom. Lying to the bank to violate the Iran sanctions. When you lie to the bank to get money that they otherwise wouldn't give you, that is fraud and if any of us lied to the bank to get a loan and were caught, we'd end up in prison too.

The degree to which some on the left go to bat for the Chinese because they call themselves communist is regretable. The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime.

Of course the wife of one of Kovrig is in favor of giving in to China. If he were one of my family members I would want the exact same thing, but "what if it were your son" isn't how diplomacy works. Because Trudeau has to worry about the next person who could be kidnapped for ransom. He's making the exact right choice.

This really looks like a phony, political case to me. Yeah, they found a technical offense, but did HSBC really care whether the U.S. sanctions on Iran were being evaded? Did the bank lose any money on the deal? Did they complain to the FBI, or did the U.S. intelligence community come up with the complaint all by themselves? None of this passes the smell test, and Canada was very foolish to detain Meng in the first place.

As far as the 2 jailed Canadians are concerned, what makes you think they aren't actually low level spies? They both seem to have associations with organizations connected to U.S. foreign policy. The Chinese government may be totalitarian, but they are also intelligent. It would make sense for them to let a few minor foreign spies wander around, carefully watched, in case of an occasion such as this.

This case is not about right and wrong, or rule of law. It is about bare knuckle international diplomacy, and Canada has totally failed to comprehend that.

 

i fully agree with mr moriarity.  

i've also been curious as to how the whole canada-china free trade deal ties in with this.  have not heard a peep about it since the "the tensions" started.  

on the plus side, many lobsters will get to grow old in their salty depths because of wanzhoe's arrest. 

NDPP

Remarks of the Spokesperson of the Chinese Embassy in Canada on the Meng Wanzhou Incident and the Cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor

http://ca.china-embassy.org/eng/sgxw/t1792758.htm

"Recently the leaders of Canada made irresponsible remarks on China's handling of the cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor in accordance with law.  Canadian media also made some distorted reports. The Chinese side expresses strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition. I would like to emphasize the following points...

The Meng Wanzhou incident is a grave political incident concocted by the United States to suppress Chinese high-tech enterprises and Huawei, and Canada is its accomplice. This is really arbitrary detention. The Meng Wanzhou incident is totally different from the cases of the two Canadians in essence. On June 24th, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson quoted Michael Kovrig's wife when answering questions from a reporter about the Meng Wanzhou incident and the cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.

However, some Canadian media deliberately reported Michael Kovrig's wife's remarks as the spokesperson's statement, and claimed that China linked the Meng Wanzhou incident with the cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. This is ill-intended, has seriously misled the public and violated professional ethics. Thirdly, the Chinese side once again urges the Canadian side to take seriously China's solemn positions, earnestly respect the spirit of the rule of law and China's judicial sovereignty, stop making irresponsible remarks on the cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and exerting pressure on China through 'megaphone diplomacy'. At the same time, Canada should reflect on its mistakes in the Meng Wanzhou incident, stop political manipulation, immediately release Ms Meng Wanzhou and ensure her safe return to China."

Why wasn't a significant Chinese response to the ongoing narrative of this story duly reported by our msm? Because they have an agenda which depends upon us only hearing one side of the story. Anyone seriously interested in affairs will always pursue primary sources and alternative media reports from both sides of any issue if available. Canadian journalism is among the worst in the world. The results speak for themselves.

Debater

Nathan Cullen:

China has admitted they see this as a hostage exchange pure & simple. While it appeals to our humanity to give in to their brutal tactics it is the opposite - it condemns the next Canadian taken hostage for the next perceived slight. This is why we have laws & independent courts.

https://twitter.com/nathancullen/status/1276909025326534657

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Cullen is either an ignorant fool, or a jingoist posturer. Just like all the Libs and Cons who speak on the issue in the same terms. This is what political correctness truly looks like.

NDPP

Nor did China admit they see this 'as a hostage exchange pure and simple.' Quite the contrary.

Remarks of the Spokesperson of the Chinese Embassy in Canada on the Meng Wanzhou Incident and the Cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.

http://ca.china-embassy.org/eng/sgxw/t1792758.htm

"Recently, the leaders of Canada made irresponsible remarks on China's handling of the cases of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor in accordance with law. Some Canadian media also made some distorted reports. The Chinese side expresses strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition. I would like to emphasize the following points...The Meng Wanzhou incident is a grave political incident concocted by the United States to suppress Chinese high-tech enterprises and Huawei, and Canada is its accomplice. This is really arbitrary detention. The Meng Wanzhou incident is totally different from the ones of the two Canadians..."

NDPP

Meng, Huawei and Canadian Law: Soap, Rinse and Dry-Laundered

https://www.newcoldwar.org/meng-huawei-and-canadian-law-soap-rinse-and-d...

"...Everyone, literally everyone, knew what had led the US to charge Huawei and its CFO. It was to obtain bargaining chips in its fight with China. It was to persuade its citizens that it was right for the government to deny them access to cheaper goods and a better 5 G system because China would abuse its growing economic influence and enhance its spying potential. It was to make China more pliable when the US demanded better trade terms and more protection for its intellectual property etc. There was no attempt to hide any of this..."

NDPP

WATCH: "The prime minister refused the idea of releasing Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou in exchange for the detained Canadians Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. We asked Kovrig's wife, Vina Nadjibulla how she felt about the PM's response..."

https://twitter.com/ctvqp/status/1277259445697945602

 

WATCH: "Would exchanging Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou for our two detained Canadians in China put more of our citizens at risk abroad? [No]. Former Canadian diplomat Robert Fowler weighs in."

https://twitter.com/ctvqp/status/127726202866364410

Canada paid a large ransom to A/Q for Fowler's sorry ass. The 'blackmail' argument is a red-herring meant to camouflage Trudeau's servility to Washington's anti-China agenda over the plight of the two Michaels who are clearly being sacrificed as pawns to this American geostrategy.

kropotkin1951

Mighty Middle wrote:

There are some experts on China who say releasing Meng Wanzhou would be the wrong thing to do because

1 - there is no guarantee that China would release the two Michaels, even if we send Meng Wanzhou back to China

2 - If we release Meng Wanzhou, China could start collecting other Canadians living China and start demanding Canada send Tibet freedom activists or Falun Gong activists living in Canada as an exchange. Where would it end?

First the idea that our diplomatic corp could not broker a deal to trade two for one is absurd and not part of reality.

You do know that Our Dear Beloved Michael Kovrig works for a US NGO that has been on the ground everywhere from Afghanistan to Venezuela, Myanmar to Mali, Ukraine to the Democratic Republic of Congo, Syria to Somalia, Thailand and Yemenand and was working in a Hong Kong office. I think he is well connected enough to broker the deal himself if the PM gave the go ahead. The idea that he could be a spy is obviously patently absurd, right? After all there is no such thing as a Canadian spy.

Your second comment falls under the general rubric of a yellow peril racist slur and should be withdrawn and you should give your head a shake.

Here are the founding fathers of Michael's international non-governmental organisation.

The group was led by Morton Abramowitz (former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey and Thailand, then President of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace), Mark Malloch-Brown (former head of the UN Development Programme, then UN Deputy Secretary-General and UK Minister), and its first Chairman, U.S. Senator George Mitchell.

Of course a group started by a pedophile would be completely humanitarian.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-09/epstein-sent-girl-to-...

NDPP

Louise Arbour was also associated with ICG, serving as its President and CEO.

NDPP

Releasing Meng Wouldn't Compromise Justice System Says Former Deputy PM

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1758559299590

"Former deputy prime minister John Manley says releasing Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou to secure the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor would not compromise Canada's justice system.