Federal election talk (11)

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edmundoconnor

You begin to wonder why this keeps on getting raised, given that it gets conclusively smacked down every time it does. It's pretty desperate, playing an old tune everyone knows and is sick of.

Policywonk

NorthReport wrote:

 

Excellent letter!!!

 

 

Why won't media back Jack?

 

One of the problems is that no major Canadian newspaper will recommend the NDP. No, every election the newspapers come out and solemnly state that after deep consideration they have decided that we should vote either Conservative or Liberal. Thus we must always choose between the party that gave us the customs scandal and subsequent constitutional crisis of 1926 and, more recently, the sponsorship scandal (the Liberals), or the party that gave us the Pacific scandal of 1873 and more recently has lied to Parliament and has been held in contempt of Parliament (the Conservatives). Yes, it is always six of one and a half dozen of the other.

We all know that if the New Democrats are elected the realities of the situation will force them to moderate some of their options. But what is wrong with their propositions for credit-card interest rates, families or Arctic sovereignty? Absolutely nothing!

Nevertheless, our political pundits wonder why the youth of this country are not voting or why the general participation rate is dropping. The answer is crystal clear, and I will state it in the antiquated Morse code: we are all tired of voting for the old parties and we are sick and tired of all their " ... .... .. -." This is from someone who now must mull over whether I should make a strategic vote for the Liberals to stop the Bloc Québécois or vote NDP.

 

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/decision-canada/media+back+Jack/4663...

The Toronto Star endorsed Ed Broadbent in 1979.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

So, I have a question. Alan Gregg just said that Iggy's numbers are coming up and that the Libs are going to do great, based on past history.

So, Iggy's numbers are going up, but so are Jack. Does anyone here have any thoughts on what this means. Is Gregg right that Iggy is going to save the day? I hate this guy Gregg.

PS: Yes, I admit it, I am watching the CBC tonight, yikes!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

So, I have a question. Alan Gregg just said that Iggy's numbers are coming up and that the Libs are going to do great, based on past history.

So, Iggy's numbers are going up, but so are Jack. Does anyone here have any thoughts on what this means. Is Gregg right that Iggy is going to save the day? I hate this guy Gregg.

PS: Yes, I admit it, I am watching the CBC tonight, yikes!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

By the way:

My wife says watching these guys on TV is like watching them speaking as though they haven't caught up with the election where it is today.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Mansbridge just said that the polls have been basically the same since election day, "some up, some down". WTF?

gyor

janfromthebruce wrote:

TorStar does a driveby smear of Layton and Olivia. Disgusted re the coop living thing. The libs I've noticed like to throw that around. Anyway, I think that when Iggy's Layton attack had no traction they are trying to put Jack off his game by doing this crap.

 

Sounds cheap like the Sun - TorStar sure is slumming!

 

From time to time he has been criticized for saying one thing and doing another, including being caught red-handed in 1985 living in subsidized housing in Toronto when his and Olivia Chow, then a Toronto trustee, were raking in a combined $120,000 year.

 

That Brennan writer always slams Jack - I guess he is just doing his same old same old - humping for the libs

Its wierd, there was that cheap disgusting act of misinformation and then at other times seemed complimenty even glowing. He even admitted that Jack could even up Prime Minister most of which the other media dismiss out of hand in thier blind arrogence.

janfromthebruce

well it was a passive-aggressive piece which was is intent. It was trying to paint Jack as not genuine & power hungry. Remember his leadership polling is about trust and integrity so they are trying to tarnish that image.

Sean in Ottawa

janfromthebruce wrote:

TorStar does a driveby smear of Layton and Olivia. Disgusted re the coop living thing. The libs I've noticed like to throw that around. Anyway, I think that when Iggy's Layton attack had no traction they are trying to put Jack off his game by doing this crap.

 

Sounds cheap like the Sun - TorStar sure is slumming!

 

From time to time he has been criticized for saying one thing and doing another, including being caught red-handed in 1985 living in subsidized housing in Toronto when his and Olivia Chow, then a Toronto trustee, were raking in a combined $120,000 year.

 

That Brennan writer always slams Jack - I guess he is just doing his same old same old - humping for the libs

Is there a way to formally complain about this?

I tried to use the Star's link to report errors but it does not load- perhaps too busy (I tweeted that)

How about Legal action?

 

janfromthebruce

I'll will the link tomorrow. I'm sure it will be dealt with but the more people complain the better for this crap to stop.

 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

TorStar does a driveby smear of Layton and Olivia. Disgusted re the coop living thing. The libs I've noticed like to throw that around. Anyway, I think that when Iggy's Layton attack had no traction they are trying to put Jack off his game by doing this crap.

 

Sounds cheap like the Sun - TorStar sure is slumming!

 

From time to time he has been criticized for saying one thing and doing another, including being caught red-handed in 1985 living in subsidized housing in Toronto when his and Olivia Chow, then a Toronto trustee, were raking in a combined $120,000 year.

 

That Brennan writer always slams Jack - I guess he is just doing his same old same old - humping for the libs

Is there a way to formally complain about this?

I tried to use the Star's link to report errors but it does not load- perhaps too busy (I tweeted that)

How about Legal action?

 

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

edmundoconnor
RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

The Star can't get away with running that crap again abiut Layton, he paid market rent.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/979408--jack-layton-...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24&feature=relmfu

 

eta:fixed and love to post without having to repeat myself.

 

Sean in Ottawa

I had this idea a while back that people should bring bananas to rallies and present to Cons where possible-- The CPC wants to turn Canada into a banana republic-- we should bring bananas as a reminder of that and a sign of resistance. I just tweeted this -- do you think anyone could pass it on? Get it out there?

Can you look it up and let me know what you think?

I don't know if I have done this right so please let me know.

Please join and write something -- examples of Harper being undemocratic---

Give Harper a Banana
Steven Harper wants to turn Canada into a Banana Republic let's give him a banana. By joining, you are sending a virtual Banana to Harper.
Stand up for democracy.
Please add examples of how we could improve our democracy and where the Conservatives have attacked it.
If any of you have the chance to give a real Banana to a Conservative take a picture of your action and post it here.

HornAfrique

RevolutionPlease wrote:

The Star can't get away with running that crap again abiut Layton, he paid market rent.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/979408--jack-layton-...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24&feature=relmfu

 

eta:fixed and love to post without having to repeat myself.

 

 

The GangStarr reference encouraged me to make the transition from lurker to poster. I'm not sure where it ties into the topic at hand, but great track.

Anonymouse

I've been watching the reaction to the Conservative's attack ads on Layton in the French and English media and these are so obviously going to fail now. In the West, Jack is being cheered for diminishing the Bloc Québecois and the ads make Jack look like he's helping the Bloc Québecois when the popular perception is otherwise. It's like arguing with people that the sky is not really blue (because it reflects the ocean) or something like that when the really don't want to hear it. People are enjoying the idea of the BQ having to fight hard for its seats.

In Québec the ads are looking like Jack is being attacked for being kindly towards the BQ and Québec, which makes Québeckers want to rally around him. They may not be getting paid airtime on Québec TV stations, but they are getting coverage on all the news stations without the benefit of people getting to see the whole ad.

So I think the Conservative ad has been a major blunder.

The Liberal ad is only a web and radio ad, so most of the play it will get is through the news. If people are not watching the news, reading the paper, etc, they won't see it. The Liberals must be half-broke with 1 week left to go. I can't believe they are spending money to put Michael Ignatieff on TV for a half-hour, I mean how painful is that going to be. They have also been web-advertising like crazy on purely defensive ads...not an enviable position to be in. Their best hope is if some of their factual arguments start to stick, but the name-calling may make Ignatieff sound arrogant, juvenile, or entitled. The Liberals may lose further face if their attacks are not well-grounded and the media ends up turning on them at a cost to the Liberals' credibility. The Liberals have certainly been good at throwing away their credibility this campaign, media claims about their running the "perfect campaign" to the contrary.

Ken Burch

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I had this idea a while back that people should bring bananas to rallies and present to Cons where possible-- The CPC wants to turn Canada into a banana republic-- we should bring bananas as a reminder of that and a sign of resistance. I just tweeted this -- do you think anyone could pass it on? Get it out there?

Can you look it up and let me know what you think?

I don't know if I have done this right so please let me know.

Please join and write something -- examples of Harper being undemocratic---

Give Harper a Banana
Steven Harper wants to turn Canada into a Banana Republic let's give him a banana. By joining, you are sending a virtual Banana to Harper.
Stand up for democracy.
Please add examples of how we could improve our democracy and where the Conservatives have attacked it.
If any of you have the chance to give a real Banana to a Conservative take a picture of your action and post it here.

If you've got ENOUGH people at those rallies, a few loud choruses of "The Banana Boat Song" would also be good.  Maybe you could even sneak in Harry Belafonte to lead everyone in song.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

HornAfrique wrote:

RevolutionPlease wrote:

The Star can't get away with running that crap again abiut Layton, he paid market rent.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/979408--jack-layton-...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24&feature=relmfu

 

eta:fixed and love to post without having to repeat myself.

 

 

The GangStarr reference encouraged me to make the transition from lurker to poster. I'm not sure where it ties into the topic at hand, but great track.

 

Heh, nice of you to delurk, they're a great band. Welcome to babble.

 

It might be hard to get but listen to the lyrics and I feel it represents the NDP well in this election.

 

That's just me though, my struggle has always been keen on hip-hop lyricists.

Aristotleded24

Anonymouse wrote:
I've been watching the reaction to the Conservative's attack ads on Layton in the French and English media and these are so obviously going to fail now. In the West, Jack is being cheered for diminishing the Bloc Québecois and the ads make Jack look like he's helping the Bloc Québecois when the popular perception is otherwise. It's like arguing with people that the sky is not really blue (because it reflects the ocean) or something like that when the really don't want to hear it. People are enjoying the idea of the BQ having to fight hard for its seats.

Not tomention that the ad was made when the BQ was much stronger. With the collape of the BQ, the thesis becomes irrelevant.

adma

Policywonk wrote:
The Toronto Star endorsed Ed Broadbent in 1979.

Though in practice, that was more of a dis-endorsement of Trudeau at his nadir.  (Then again, governing aside, it also reflected on the NDP as a viable voting option, esp. in the aftermath of Stephen Lewis's provincial gains that decade)

inukjuak inukjuak's picture

Going into the election, the received wisdom was that the NDP would be lucky not to lose too many seats. Going into the final week of the campaign, the sense seems to be that it will be a major letdown if the party wins less than 80 seats. We are very hard to satisfy.

Ciabatta2

Well that's part of the media's narrative.  Harper's had this one in the bag for a while, meanwhile the NDP could end up winning 4 or 5 Quebec seats and a few more elsewhere plus keeping its existing ones and we'll see articles about the massive failure of Jack Layton

Northern-54

I look upon anything more than what we have as being satisfactory.  What Layton has already done is remarkable.  We are usually in trouble in elections where there is a significant desire for a majority in the House of Commons.  This was the mindset of most Canadians at the start of the campaign and the choice of which party should have the majority did not include us.  This has been a powerful force in past elections where the population has grown tired of the unpredictability of minority governments.  It is still a powerful force in this election.   There is a possibility that there will be 80 seats for the NDP because of it (if it becomes apparent that the choice is between the NDP and the Conservatives).  However, it is a possibility and not the most likely one.  If it were not that the Conservatives were anathema to so many people, there would already have been a bandwagon effect towards them.  I am still concerned that this might happen in the last week.  In order to counter it, the NDP needs to have countering advertizing.  This requires money so I hope that the membership and supporters are generous when requests come to them.

I think it most likely that the NDP will get between 45 and 55 seats.  The last week of a campaign is extremely important and the party with the most money, unfortunately, has the biggest advantage.  Not only do they have the power of the buck directly but also they have the power that comes from being expected to win.  Naturally, media outlets know this and react accordingly, some knowingly and with intent.

Ciabatta2

I personally figured anything above 27-28 would be a decent result for New Dems.  40 would be a welcome surprise for the NDP even with this momentum

Talk of 80 is nothing but silly fun

adma

Garth Brasseur wrote:

I look upon anything more than what we have as being satisfactory. 

Or at least, anything more than what the NDP had 20 years ago (the 1988 tally + Edmonson)

Anonymouse

My expectations haven't changed. I expected the NDP to lose seats, except for possibly in QC. It looks now like the party might considerably exceed my expectations. Great.

Anonymouse
janfromthebruce

This is what I wrote to that person you linked to below"

 

Layton and Chow lived in co-op housing, not subsidized housing and paid full market rent. The Star's complete and deliberate misinformation should be withdrawn if there are any standards left in today's journalism. The entire point of co-op housing is to have a mix of income and backgrounds in those living there. Couples like Layton and Chow would have been helping subsidize affordable housing for those who otherwise might have had trouble acheiving it. Shame on the Star for publishing such purely politically motivated untruths. You Liberals sure are getting desperate.

 

And I believe the reporter/writer also knew that and was trying to tarnish both Layton and Chow. I would like the Toronto Star to apologize in their newspaper and retract. Considering that in 1990, the Toronto Star made the same accusation, and that the police cleared the councillor of any wrong doing as reported in The Globe and Mail, I believe you owe both Layton and Chow an immediate retraction and public front page apology. I expect more from the Toronto Star in which it purports to stand up for social justice.

Here is the wiki link and I’m not an investigative journalist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Layton

Layton and Chow were also the subject of some dispute when a June 14, 1990 Toronto Star article by Tom Kerr accused them of unfairly living in a housing co-operative subsidized by the federal government, despite their high income.[20] Layton and Chow had both lived in the Hazelburn Co-op since 1985, and lived together in an $800 per month three-bedroom apartment after their marriage in 1988. By 1990, their combined annual income was $120,000, and in March of that year they began voluntarily paying an additional $325 per month to offset their share of the co-op's Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation subsidy, the only members of the co-op to do so. In response to the article, the co-op's board argued that having mixed-income tenants was crucial to the success of co-ops, and that the laws deliberately set aside apartments for those willing to pay market rates, such as Layton and Chow.[21] During the late 1980s and early 1990s they maintained approximately 30% of their units as low income units and provided the rest at what they considered market rent. In June 1990, the city's solicitor cleared the couple of any wrong-doing,[22] and later that month, Layton and Chow left the co-op and bought a house in Toronto's Chinatown together with Chow's mother, a move they said had been planned for some time.[23] Former Toronto mayor John Sewell later wrote in NOW that rival Toronto city councillor Tom Jakobek had given the story to Tom Kerr.[24]

^ Polanyi, Margaret. "Layton cleared of wrongdoing Police say councillor committed no impropriety by living in co-op." The Globe and Mail. Aug 17, 1990. pg. A.8

Sincerely,

 

RevolutionPlease wrote:

The Star can't get away with running that crap again abiut Layton, he paid market rent.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/979408--jack-layton-...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9lNbNGbo24&feature=relmfu

 

eta:fixed and love to post without having to repeat myself.

 

I must say that I'm even more disgusted with the Star in reading the wiki link that it was the Star who tried to smear Jack the first time. Disgusting. The Star is no better then the Sun news!

 

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Tommy_Paine
janfromthebruce

I was found this interesting on a blogging Tory site:

 

his thread is embarrassing, and more so for us than Jack or the NDP.

Why?

Because in less than 1 minute you can use google to look up the FACTS of this case and find out that Jack Layton was “cleared of wrongdoing” in 1990! Almost 20 years ago.

If you do a little research to learn what a housing co-operative is and how they work, you will realize that they made the right call in 1990. He did nothing wrong at all. One could even argue that he was doing good because having someone with an education and a good job as a neighbor is beneficial to poor people. Co-ops set aside a number of units for market rent, so there is no chance that he was in a space that could have gone to a needy family.

takeitslowly

Poor Iggy he is doing exactly what Hillary did when she ran for presidency..paying money to run an informerical and calling the other guy inexperienced , except he also have to go against McCain at the same time...lol

edmundoconnor

Jan, the housing smear is all the Liberals have on Layton. No matter that it's discredited, no matter that it's old. They'll keep using it.

edmundoconnor

Promoted as an opportunity for voters to see Ignatieff "up close and personal,"

Are the Liberals sure that's a good idea?

Anonymouse

The NDP rally in Brampton where the media reported 600 people showed up.

edmundoconnor

I just saw the video for the Brampton rally. That's pretty inspiring.

Anonymouse

Sounds like the same Malik that was acquitted at the Air India trial has endorsed Liberal MP Sukh Dhaliwal although unlike the Conservatives, Sukh never sought this endorsement. All indications are that he is in a tough fight with South Asian NDP star candidate Jinny Sims.

Sims is a high profile, non-mushy middle, BC unionist.

ETA: Sims was also one of the endorsers of newly elected BC NDP leader Adrian Dix. She will probably be able to draw on his, and others support, as the campaign winds towards e-day.

Anonymouse

Nanos: Layton is considered the most competent federal leader by two times the number of Canadians as Michael Ignatieff

Anonymouse

If Ontario doesn't surge, it's time to remind them Bob Rae is a Liberal Laughing

If the Liberals lose all their seats in QC, he could be the next leader!

Anonymouse
Anonymouse

Monday

Jack Layton will have a morning rally in Saint John, New Brunswick. About 200 have already confirmed on facebook.

In the evening he will be having another rally in Québec, this time in Gatineau.

Jack Layton at Khalsa day in Toronto

Ignatieff was booed in Missisauga last night.

NorthReport

I was just listening to a reporter named Mike who is traveling with Layton for Global News I believe. He was just interviewed on CKNW Radio in the Lower Mainland of BC. Mike shared with the listeners that both Layton and Ignatieff went to a Sikh celebration in Toronto today and that the contrast between the way the crowds greeted was like nite and day, and that Layton was being treated like a rock star. 

NorthReport

I was just listening to a reporter named Mike who is traveling with Layton for Global News I believe. He was just interviewed on CKNW Radio in the Lower Mainland of BC. Mike shared with the listeners that both Layton and Ignatieff went to a Sikh celebration in Toronto today and that the contrast between the way the crowds greeted them was like nite and day, and that Layton was being treated like a rock star. 

NorthReport

I was just listening to a reporter named Mike who is traveling with Layton for Global News I believe. He was interviewed on CKNW Radio in the Lower Mainland of BC. Mike shared with the listeners that both Layton and Ignatieff went to a Sikh celebration in Toronto today and that the contrast between the way the crowds greeted them was like nite and day, and that Layton was being treated like a rock star. 

My hunch is that every time Ignatieff goes anywhere, or speaks on TV, more voters leave the Liberals and go to the NDP.

NorthReport

Apparently Ignatieff visited a hockey arena in Mississauga today and when his picture was flashed on the big screen the 4,000 fans that were there starting booing him.  

takeitslowly

the same crowd would be cheering for Harper, unfortunately.

NorthReport

All I know is that they would have been cheering for Layton.

NorthReport

Info on thousands of voters sent out by mistake

 

 

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/CanadaVotes/News/2011/04/24/18060366....

takeitslowly

I am not sure I understand your point. Iggy is not to be trusted but at least  he made the right soundbites about democracy, and if people perfer him over Harper, that does not speak very well about the values of Canadian people.

Life, the unive...

You mean the Ignatieff that supported American involvment in Iraq, and has never actually been elected as the leader of his party, but rather installed?  Is that the champion of democracy you mean?

takeitslowly

and hes still not as bad as Harper, so if the same crowd who booed iggy but do not do the same with Harper (regardless if they booed or cheered on Layton) , that is SAD.

NorthReport

Like he has a choice.

 

Ignatieff would work with Layton if NDP held more seats than Liberals

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/decision-canada/Ignatieff+would+work+wi...

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