Green Party supporters: What would other parties have to do to convince you you didn't need to keep your party going?

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Ken Burch
Green Party supporters: What would other parties have to do to convince you you didn't need to keep your party going?

It's looking like it's going to be harder and harder slog for Greens in the next few years.  There were good reasons to start a Green Party in Canada, but at some point you'd have to ask yourselves if it's worth the effort to try to keep it going.

What would you have to see from ANY other party before you'd say "OK, we don't need to stay with this, we can join THEM now".

(Note, I'm not tying that to any party in particular).

 

This isn't meant to be a "Screw the Greens" thread (and I'd like to ask anyone posting in it, as a personal request, to refrain from using any phrases like "so-called" in discussing the party), it's intended as a "what would say to you that an actual separate party is no longer needed"thread.

 

melovesproles

I've only voted Green provincially and I think May has earned a lot of the ill will many New Democrats hold for her but I have a lot of friends who used to vote NDP but now vote Green federally.  I think the biggest factor tends to be that they just don't trust the NDP to value real reform and progress over small electoral gains.  They genuinely do want to see a new kind of politics in Canada and don't particularly care if their vote elects someone as long it works towards that goal.  I don't think you'll see another party grab much of that vote share unless we see a real different approach to messaging and more respect for the voter's intelligence and cynicism.  The old slogans and cliches just turn these voters off, they are looking for more meaningful gestures.

Stockholm

Name me a single "meaningful gesture" on the part of the federal green party? Once you get past having a cute name that has a certain amount of global "brand equity", they take the cake in terms of being the party that coasts on the most superficial cliches and platitudes of all!

NorthReport

I'm not a Green Party supporter, but is it rather short-sighted to be attacking a group of people that are expressing concern for the environment, when Global Warming appears to be picking up speed.  

melovesproles

Well, I don't want to get into defending the Federal Green party, like I said I've never voted for them and don't currently plan to but I thought May made some good points that were more than cliches or platitudes in the debates and the Greens were ahead of the curve in calling for a Stop Harper Coalition before the idea of a coalition became popular amongst NDPers.  Obviously that coalition was different and evil ect. and I think you're right that there is a bit of a double standard when it comes to crediblity for the Greens, partly because voting for them is a statement for change which transcends their organization, but I think these debates aren't what Ken is looking for.

Stockholm

Being concerned about the environment is a extremely laudable. I guess the question is what is accomplished by expressing that concern by supporting a party that has never won a seat anywhere in Canada, and whose platform on environmental issues is largely plagiarized from the NDP with a few tidbits from the Liberals.

Stockholm

"Greens were ahead of the curve in calling for a Stop Harper Coalition"

That's funny, I could have sworn that EMay was "ahead of the curve" in calling for a Stop Layton Coalition. To the extent that May expressed any support for the coalition back in December - it was only in the context of her not-very-helpful musing about getting appointed to the Senate as part of the deal.

melovesproles

Sure, anyways Stockholm, I think the truth is you'd prefer Green voters to not vote for the NDP.  I say this because I don't think you're stupid, yet I've never heard you say anything about the Greens that wouldn't make their supporters less likely to vote for the NDP.  In other threads critisizing the NDP, you constantly call for constructive criticism but have nothing constructive to say when it comes to luring GP voters.  I'm sure you have your reasons, you probably subscribe to the Pat Martin school of thinking on the subject.  That's understandable enough for someone on the right of the party, but why not just say it once, instead of multiple passive aggressive posts in a thread Ken started in good faith.

janfromthebruce

A deal that had nothing to do with the Green Party of Canada - so may the disaster decided to add fuel to a fire and re-affirmed "fears" that those un-electable would get in through the back door. Way to go May - democracy was irrelevant.

melovesproles

Obviously, I was talking about the coalition she 'mistakenly' mused about to the media days before voting when she told Green supporters they should vote for Liberal or NDP candidates in ridings where they had a chance to defeat Conservatives.  I think it was good advice, if Harper had a weaker showing then the later Coalition might have been saleable and we might have had Linda Duncan as our Minister of the Environment.

Stockholm

OK, let me try to respond fairly to the OP.

"There were good reasons to start a Green Party in Canada, but at some point you'd have to ask yourselves if it's worth the effort to try to keep it going."

The answer will always be YES because as long as they get at least 2% of the national popular vote - they will get about a million dollars a year in funding and that will keep May and few of her sycophants gainfully employed for the foreseeable futue. On top of that, there is another thin layer of people who like being in the Green Party because they can be a proverbial "big fish in a small pond" (or more likely a small fish in a kitchen sink) - the Green party isn't exactly brimming with top level political strategists - if the party folded tomorrow do you think there is ANYONE in that party that the NDP or the Liberals would be in a big rush to offer jobs to???

"What would you have to see from ANY other party before you'd say "OK, we don't need to stay with this, we can join THEM now"?"

I suspect that NO, there is NOTHING that any other party could offer that would make anyone still in the green party say "OK, we don't need to stay with this, we can join THEM now". A chunk of ex-greens already moved over to the NDP when Layton took over the party - given that he has greener credentials than just about anyone in the green party itself. A few others went Liberal after Dion took over. I think that the diehards who are still "Green" will stick with that party forever - no matter what policies any other party puts forth for the reasons cited in my answer to the first question.

Stockholm

melovesproles wrote:

Obviously, I was talking about the coalition she 'mistakenly' mused about to the media days before voting when she told Green supporters they should vote for Liberal or NDP candidates in ridings where they had a chance to defeat Conservatives.  I think it was good advice, if Harper had a weaker showing then the later Coalition might have been saleable and we might have had Linda Duncan as our Minister of the Environment.

That was all very weird. I mean it was highly predictable when the election was called that either it was going to a tossup as to whether Harper got a majority or not OR in a best case scenario it might have been a tossup as to whether the Tories or the Liberals were going to be the biggest party - either way, if May thought defeating Harper was important it was clear that EVERYONE voting Green should instead vote for other parties. So what was she thinking whe she signed the nomination papers of Green candidates in 306 out of 308 ridings across Canada? Under what possible scenario would she have been able to campaign for people to vote Green in ALL ridings?

Dana Larsen

In my particular circle of friends and activists, there was a lot of support and hope given to Layton earlier in his leadership of the NDP.

Indeed, the Marijuana Party essentially did what you are wondering if the Greens will ever do... Most of the leadership and membership of the Canadian MJ Party joined the NDP when Layton came out firmly in favour of legalization.

If the BC NDP leadership had been as forthright in their support for legal weed, it's likely the BC Marijuana Party would have folded up shop already.

But once Layton started qualifying his support for marijuana law reform, many of these people started saying they were going to vote Green.

So perhaps, among other things, the NDP taking a more principled and firmly-based stand on marijuana legalization would help lure the Greens into the NDP fold.

I'd actually advocate for the NDP to unify with / absorb the Green Party, and change our name to the "Green Democratic Party" which I think would lead to a surge for us in the polls and electoral success.

The best way for the NDP to convince the Greens to dissolve their party would be for everyone in the NDP to join the Greens and then vote for the Greens to join the NDP. Kind of like what the Reform Party did to the Progressive Conservatives.

sway

Hahahhaha

With the most spent EVER by any ndp last election...and as it will never  be repeated...as the unions can not top up jacky's piggybank anymore....

 

and with the lowest turn out in history last election

 

Only one party increased its vote and it did it by 41%

The Green Party !!

As the only party to do so I would ask what we have to do to get you to see the light and fold your old sick worn out non credible shallow pesimistic crass parties....LOL???

 

 

Go Green because the others are not Green and we are all sick of them !

 

Yeah ok this thread is a joke ...right???

 

 

jacky ....I mean stockhomey  you just crack me up

Erik Redburn

Clever, but I don't think the Greens are going anywhere just yet as I think its now evident that their only reason for existance still is to block the NDP.  They mostly represent the centre right now, though, so probably taking more potential votes from the Liberals now.   Maybe they could start up merger talks with the new Vision BC party though, that might be a better fit. 

Ken Burch

Quote:
I have a lot of friends who used to vote NDP but now vote Green federally.  I think the biggest factor tends to be that they just don't trust the NDP to value real reform and progress over small electoral gains.  They genuinely do want to see a new kind of politics in Canada and don't particularly care if their vote elects someone as long it works towards that goal.  I don't think you'll see another party grab much of that vote share unless we see a real different approach to messaging and more respect for the voter's intelligence and cynicism.

 

That is probably the most thoughtful comment anyone has made in this thread so far, proles, and I thank you for it.  It doesn't seem like it would be asking so much for the NDP to step up and be this kind of party.  Really, it SHOULDN'T be too much to ask it of any of the parties. 

Oh, and sway, I honestly didn't start this thread to bash the Greens.  It was a serious attempt to find out what it would take to get them to trust other parties.  I realize that many of them do have incredibly valid reasons for starting the GP. 

And Stockholm, that was kind of a cheap shot to imply that most GP supporters would endorse keeping the party going solely as a cash cow.  That might motivate the careerists around party hq, but you can't assume that's where the Green rank-and-file are at.

 

Erik Redburn

Yeah, I was perhaps being a bit cynical myself in regards to the average Green member, but I see no sign that their leadership or general drift is about anything anymore than...well, getting on my nerves really.  My nerves in particular.  I think Stockholm secretly enjoys their antics.

Stockholm

"And Stockholm, that was kind of a cheap shot to imply that most GP supporters would endorse keeping the party going solely as a cash cow.  That might motivate the careerists around party hq, but you can't assume that's where the Green rank-and-file are at."

Fair enough, but I guess it depends on who we are talking about. If we are talking about people who vote for that party that has the word "green" as its proper name - then I'm not taking a cheap shot at them - that is another discussion.(I suspect that most people who vote Green would vote NDP if the party became hostile to unions, or might vote Liberal if that party had a leader who was more articulate than Dion - that would still live some inveterate "none of the above" people who would vote Rhino if the Green party didn't exist.

My comments were directed more at the people who actually run the Green Party - like their eminence gris - Jim Harris the ex-Tory who makes his money as a motivational speaker to corporate audiences. There was an expose about him a couple of years ago that led one to conclude that he had never taken an interest in any environmental issues in his whole life before he staged a hostile takeover of the Green Party so he could be its leader and promote his motivational speaking business!

That ebing said, I hope the Green Party keeps on existing - its worth it for the entertainment factor alone!

Mojoroad1

Good topic, interesting question.

 

I think the general statements have been made about the GPC and their membership is more or less accurate from pervious posts and this one.  

to whit:

- The GPC is (very?) right of centre, politically, however the people who vote for them do so for a myriad of reasons:

1. There are right wing eco-capital business types and libertarians who genuinely are informed about what the GPC represents. They MIGHT go to nearest main stream party on the right, but unlikely. 

2. The "rhino"/ "none of the above" people who will vote strictly as a protest - Many of whom (though certainly not all), I believe, are more or less progressives who have a misunderstanding of the NDP due to MSM media.

3. The uninformed progressive / environmentalist voter that votes "Green" strictly because of the "green=environment=good" axiom. These voters are for sure progressive and with proper outreach/education by Team Orange on which party has trail blazed on the environment, has a history of doing so and has leader who is Greener then the vast majority Green Party "insiders.". Also important to these progressive voters is to hit home point 1 above.  IMHO these are the bulk of what remains of GPC voters.   

That said, the viritol from progressives re: E may and the GPC (which has been right-wing long before she came around) is the same many feel for the modern LPC. IOW, they are not "progressive" by any standard that counts, but try & skate by on the myth that they are. My hunch is that group 1 will stay around to keep them on life support (short term) while group 2 (to a certain degree) will spit - some will stay, some will go- and Group 3 will go Orange. 

 

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

I generally agree with Mojoroad's assessment, but would take special note of the relative youth of the vast majority of those in group 3.

If the NDP wants to appeal to them, we need to do two things: Dispel the MSM myth that the NDP consists of tired old hippies, and learn to appeal to the young on their own terms: Communication must be social (networking), fast to the point of instantaneous, and interactive at all points in the chain.

Oh, and gatherings should be frequent, informal and fun - rather than a punishing chore. 

remind remind's picture

"gatherings should be frequent, informal and fun - rather than a punishing chore. "

Oh man, I remember the gatherings in SK, bands, funny speeches, kid's rides, BBQ's, ball games, they were too much fun actually.

Even the dinners and other fund raisers that happened in BC, were fun, in the earlier days. Then somehow in the 80's all the fun got drained out. Like it was supposed to be "serious" business or some damn thing, with no fun allowed.

Perhaps it had something to do with all the "serious" business of environmental fighting going on, afterall, all that tree spiking and getting arrested for the cause, is serious business and we would not want it trivialized. And the NDP had to appear to be "serious" contenders.

 

Stockholm

"If the NDP wants to appeal to them, we need to do two things: Dispel the MSM myth that the NDP consists of tired old hippies"

I don't actually think that is an accurate reflection of the MSM "myth" about the NDP. If it was, it would probably actually be MORE appealing to these naive Green Party types. I think that the MSM myth about the NDP that is more toxic when it comes to younger small "g" green types - is that the NDP is a party of "workers", "unions", "poor people", "people who work with their hands" etc... in other words - all that is unfashionable. "Green" is seen as "hip". NDP is equated with CAW and CUPE and neither are considered "hip" by the "techies in condos".

remind remind's picture

I agree with that assessment Stock.

smalltownguy

If anything it is the NDP that is going the way of the Dodo bird. If you NDPers here would give some serious thought to your current efforts you would see that there is a very clear reason why the Green Party is increasing it's support and the NDP is becoming a also ran. Citizens of this fine country/province are getting tired of being held hostage by public sector unions.

Myself I have no problem with the strike at Vale Inco in Sudbury. This is a matter between the workers and management where there is balance and the average guy on the street is not effected. I do have a problem with there being garbage in the streets, parks and pools being closed as is the case in Toronto. Holding the public the hostage is not in the interests of your party. In fact many people i'm sure feel the union backed party would be the last party they would vote for.

In the last election I talked to the local NDP candidate and was asked about a coalition/mergers with the Greens. I told her I couldn't support her union based party. If you want to bring Greens into the fold my suggestion to you is that you propose a ban on public sector strikes. Show that you care about the smallbusiness person, the mother who has kids to take to daycare. Show that you are not the party of bullies at the gates to the dump. You are your own worst enemies when you support these measures.  If you were the party of the people, all of the people not just the union members you might succeed in bringing Greens to the fold.

Stockholm

OK, I think we now know all that we ever wanted to know about the REAL mentality of the Green party.

smalltownguy

If you are referring to me I am speaking as an individual.

Stockholm

If your views are typical of the the Green Party, then it confirms to me my worst suspcions that they are a party of union-bashing, poor-hating Tories with composters.

remind remind's picture

Sweet, eco-capitalists are a fine bunch.

smalltownguy

If you would read my comment without your orange coloured glasses and think about what I said you see that I am not against unions.  I am advocting that the success of the NDP might increase if it would change it tactics. I am saying that pissing people off doesn't make for electoral success.

remind remind's picture

The Cons and Liberals seem fine pissing people off

Stockholm

I'm not sure what "tactics" you're even referring to. Its been a long time since I've seen anyone from the NDP walking any picket lines in support of any public sector unions, since the ban on corporate and union donations labour has had less influence on the NDP than ever before and I I watched the last federal election campaign very closely and I don't recall the NDP making much noise about labour issues or about the virtue of unions etc... the most high profile "union boss" (sic.) in canada Buzz Hargrove seems to have run off to support the Liberals and their green acolytes etvc... so you are really flailing against a straw dog.

Bookish Agrarian

smalltownguy's tirade against unions and workers in general is almost verbatium of comments made to me by a Green candidate once.  This belief that unions are somehow bad and the causes of society's ills is one of the reason that I see the so-called Greens as both bad for the environment and bad for just about everything else progressive and the kind of change we need to help average people.

sandpiper

 

To answer the opening post: I've voted Green before, and even been a member and volunteered for them federally. For me, the reasons I returned to the NDP were that I found working to make the NDP policies more sustainable was a heck of a lot easier then building a brand new party. I'm just a quitter, I guess.

I joined the Green Party in my twenties, when I moved to an area the NDP was weak (AB) after living in a province where the NDP was always an also-ran (NS)... the environment was always my 1st, 2nd and 3rd issue, so 'Green' seemed a purer choice at the time then fitting into a bigger NDP tent where my choices were (very occasionally) ridiculed. 

Since then, I've learned more about how to work towards a consensus and how to find common ground with people who don't think the environment is both the 1st, 2nd and 3rd most important issue of our time. And since moving back to the NDP (in NS again) I've been surprised at how they've welcomed me... I've heard that's been an issue for others in other provinces - young people (young being anyone under 35) are treated as NDP Youth instead of regular members.

I moved back to the NDP, in part, because I noticed the NDP had beefed up their environment policies (and had been recognized by enviro-orgs as having done so)... at this point I think by reaching out to exhausted Green supporters, telling them they can have an effect now (working on policy now, working for the twenty strongest NDP supporters of environmental initiatives now), instead of a distant future when the Greens win a few dozen seats (20 years? 50 years?) but doing so with an appreciation of why they feel more comfortable in the GP, will have some effect on improving the NDPs fortunes. I'm talking about the committed left of centre Greens, not the average voter, though. But take those activists, and you make their party weaker and yours stronger.

The Green Party is here to stay, especially now that they get dollars for votes. But there are divisions in that party - reformers versus utopians and pure market economics versus state intervention policies - and those divisions can exhaust people. I'd advise New Democrats to reach out to active leftist Greenies (they do exist) and invite them over to discuss the relative benefits of organic imported beer versus local union-made. 

 

How to reach the average voter? Much harder. Much more expensive. TV commercials. Sponsor green events and initiatives. Every candidate should be ready to speak out about climate change, but also about 3 local issues that will generate local press.

But the party might want to concern itself more with how to win Liberal votes. Let Canadians know that the debate on the environment should not be a partisan one... Ignatieff thinks he'll win votes by calling the tar-sands a national treasure and saying National Geographic has nothing to teach him... Canadians need to understand that the Liberals are failing them - that even Margaret Thatcher believes we need strong and immediate action. Canadians who care about the environment must learn that voting Liberal is not an option for them. I think the Liberals are incredibly weak on the environment, and it might just be the issue that helps New Democrats explain to Canadians that they cannot keep switching back and forth between the Liberals and Tories. 

smalltownguy

1) Remind. I agree that the appropriately named Cons piss people of. The Grits do too.  Recently I attended a rally against the Cons law'n'order agenda Bill C15. Personally it does not affect my daily life. I have never grown a marijuana plant and don't intend to start now. I do think the bill is bad policy and will continue to work toward changing this bill. The Liberals voted in favour as I am sure you know, in my opinion, because they are more concerned with keeping their high paying posts than doing their job which is to oppose.

Most people in small business, be they owners or employers can only dream of the wages and benefits that some not all of the members on strike get. I am the first to acknowledge that perception and reality may be two different things. The point is that you are trying to bring people into your party. I am only stating the opinion of many. The fact that I am a Green is irrelevant to arguement.

My point earlier is that if the NDP wants to attain power they will have to give something. Power is usually a result of a comprimise. Outlawing PUBLIC sector strikes that only hurt the public in my opinion would go a long way. I suspect under arbitration the unions may actually do better. The Cons and Liberals agreement on bill C15 doesn't affect may life. Garbage in the streets etc does. Think about it.

 

2) Bookish Agrarian. My brother is a union steward and is approaching retirement after a many year long career. I respect his hard work on behalf of his members. It is people like you, who accuse people like me, who are argueing for a different approach and  are  open to discussion, that make it clear to me that trying to find common ground is useless.  Yes I am a small business person, but I pay workers decently I am told and have worked, i.e. volunteered on projects that help the less fortunate. Putting me into your small category when you do not even know me shows why people such as you are not ready for prime time. I.e. being in government.

Stockholm

I don't know of ANY jurisdition in the entire western industrialized world that has ever outlawed all strikes by anyone in the public sector across the board. If the Green Party of canada is advocating that - its news to me. So far that seems to be too much of a rightiwng tinfoil hat policy for even the Tories to touch!

remind remind's picture

smalltownguy wrote:
Most people in small business, be they owners or employers can only dream of the wages and benefits that some not all of the members on strike get. I am the first to acknowledge that perception and reality may be two different things. The point is that you are trying to bring people into your party. I am only stating the opinion of many. The fact that I am a Green is irrelevant to arguement.

Welll what can I say their opinion is wrong headed, and you would be better off countering those  false beliefs fostered by the CoC and CFIB.

Those union jobs translate into financial spending in their stores, spending they would not have if everyone made 8.50 an hour.

Quote:
My point earlier is that if the NDP wants to attain power they will have to give something. Power is usually a result of a comprimise. Outlawing PUBLIC sector strikes that only hurt the public in my opinion would go a long way. I suspect under arbitration the unions may actually do better. The Cons and Liberals agreement on bill C15 doesn't affect may life. Garbage in the streets etc does. Think about it.

No thanks, I see it as the City's fault not the workers fault. Moreover, I have been a public sector worker in several different areas who was not allowed to strike, and it is BS. End of story.

Quote:
My brother is a union steward and is approaching retirement after a many year long career. I respect his hard work on behalf of his members. It is people like you, who accuse people like me, who are argueing for a different approach and  are  open to discussion, that make it clear to me that trying to find common ground is useless.  Yes I am a small business person, but I pay workers decently I am told and have worked, i.e. volunteered on projects that help the less fortunate. Putting me into your small category when you do not even know me shows why people such as you are not ready for prime time. I.e. being in government.

My parents were small business people they new the only party they could rely on to meet their interests were the NDP. Corporate parties are no friends to small business people. It is a phoney bill of goods sold to you by your local CoC and the CFIB.

BTW, BA, is a small farmer, not a union employee, he also understands that there is only one party for the small independant farmer and business person.

One wonders what you will  think when you lose your small business concern to a corporate entity, and have to work for peanuts.

 

smalltownguy

I am not the Green Party. If you want the Green Party's stand on something read Green Vision. It amazes me that you people cannot have a discusion without putting labels on people.

I joined the Greens for many reasons. Their policy on legalization of drugs.  By education I am an economist. I agree with Milton Friedman. It hasn't worked, isn't working and won't work in the future. Their policy on a gaurenteed annual income. Their policy on assisting people to pay for higher education.

My experience is that most small business people would not go anywhere near the NDP.  They tend to be Conservative.

 

I am not going to be taken over by a corporate concern.  I am going to retire comfortably after a life time of work.  Thank you very much.

And finally I was a VP of the local C of C. A fine group of people who do a lot of good work in the Community.

remind remind's picture

Figured as much, as the lines you parrot come straight off CoC faxes and emails.

Have read Vision Green a couple of times actually. And  it was such a waste of time that I will never get back.

Pondering  the notion that unions should publish lists of businesses not shop at. As it seems they are not respected for their buying power by some business owners. And if business owners are going to start slamming their potential and already customers for their political choices it is what they deserve.

For example, I am boycotting a restaurant and another business here in town for having political signs on its property and encouraging others to do so too. My parents were smart enough to keep their politics under wraps as business owners.

You know what  is strange about your thinking? Businesses flock to CoC trade shows in union towns to get their hard earned dollars.

And BTW many small business owners are NDP, and some of them are even NDP representatives.

smalltownguy

I am not a parrot I can think for myself.

I'l bet you are boycotting because they do not have the sign of your party up, not because they have signs up. I'll bet things would be different if you liked their sign.

I agree business doesn't look at whether it is a union town or not. Money is money.  As I said many of your tactics will not help you get elected.

Confrontation rarely works in my opinion. If you think it is good for you go for it. But don't be surprized when the NDP looses a few more points in the polls.

Stockholm

Why don't you tell us what actual "TACTICS" you're referring to since so far you write about the NDP based on some sort of 40 year out of date stereotype that came from some old cranks posting at freedominion!

sandpiper

Thinking about the opening post from other parties' points of view (where the Liberal and Conservative Parties are some Green voters second choice) I can only speculate that if the Liberals and Cons entered into an honest discussion, where they embrace science, look to be world leaders, and stop worrying about moving to where they think the votes are and move to where good policy is, then some weak Green votes would follow.

This is tricky for the Cons before an election and the Liberals afterwards. Somehow, the environment has stopped being a motherhood issue in North America (sorry for the misuse of 'motherhood') and become polarized and partisan, where it actually makes sense from the Conservative point of view to not take action on the environment as a way of rallying their base who believe climate change is a socialist scheme. But if the goal for the Cons is to win right-wing Green votes, and for the purpose of this thread it is, then the Cons need to act now on environment policy that uses market forces, instead of legislation and restrictions, to reward and punish consumer behavior. Or, they need to work closely with the USA and hope that together they can implement a cap-and-trade system that works. These two ideas are contradictory (a cap and trade seems to be a big government solution, but here I think for the casual right-wing Green voter, helping out Obama would help out Harper.

An honest discussion would be tricky for the Liberals afterwards because, well, they lie. This time, they'd have to actually do something when in government to keep those newly re-won Green votes.

remind remind's picture

Funny, I have not met one long time CoC member that could. Most just speal off what they read in a fax or heard at a meeting. The ones who didn't realized what a bunch of malarky was being shoved at them and stopped being CoC of members.

And you would be wrong, am boycotting one that did have a NDP sign up and one that didn't, I do not believe businesses should advertise their politics, no matter what it is. I believe small businesses need not shoot themselves in the foot.

 

 

 

 

sandpiper

What the heck do you guys have against the Council of Canadians? Laughing

smalltownguy

Chamber of Commerce in my case. I don't know about the other guy.

sandpiper

Just trying to introduce some humour into the discussion. So, smalltownguy, getting back to the thread topic, what would the Libs or Cons have to do to win your support?

Uncle John

Of the three main parties I think the Green Party benefits the Liberals the most, as Green votes seem to have come off of the old PC Party and the NDP.

Yet it might be a wash as the PCs who hate the modern Conservatives would probably go Liberal anyway.

I would guess that where Green support would go would probably vary depending on the region.

Stockholm

In a few inner city ridings, the Green votes might come slightly more from the NDP than from the Liberals, but a lot of the "green vote (such that it exists) is in places like Calgary, the Okanagan, certain rural parts of Ontario etc... where there was never much of an NDP vote to begin with.

smalltownguy

Not going to happen Sandpiper. The Cons have taken a perfectly good party and transformed it into a bunch of regressives. The Grits believe in coronating their leaders and have no policy except the will to keep their paychecks.

smalltownguy

The smalltownguy comes from one of those "rural parts of Ontario".

sandpiper

Oh, I know it's not going to happen, smalltownguy, but what would the Cons have to do to make you say, "Oh my God, they're back! That's a party I can support! This time, I'm voting Conservative! Sorry Mrs May, but I just have to make sure these guys get a majority."

smalltownguy

Support the legalization of marijuana

Support a carbon tax

Return support to women's organizations.

What would they have to do to get you in the fold?

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