How much of Dion's downfall is due to his poor English?

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adma

Well, it could be worse. John Manley can only speak in meeping noises
[img]http://a6.vox.com/6a00c2251c69bcf21900c2251dd6c6604a-500pi[/img]

kropotkin1951

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]And I suppose the election of Barack Obama as President of the United States next week will be proof once and for all that racial prejudice against black people in that country is a myth.[/b]

And if socialists do not vote for him it is because they are racist or is it because they see him for the corporate backed imperialist he is?

You missed my point so I will explain further. There are many people in Canada that resent the fact that to become PM it is distinct advantage to be from one particular province regardless of the language spoken at home while growing up. That is a different sentiment than rejecting Dion based on his language skills. Mulroney being the most outrageous example of an asshole that relied heavily on his being born and raised in Quebec for his political success.

kropotkin1951

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Fer chrissakes, man, grab a clue! [b]It's not about geography.[/b][/b]

I have many clues and many of them point in a different direction than yours. So leave the fucking insults out of what was until your obnoxious attack a perfectly congenial discussion about politics.

You deem to sit somewhere back east and tell me your view of why Dion was rejected is the only correct one. Your arrogance knows no bounds apparently.

Mojoroad1

quote:


Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]

What more dp you need than the vile coverage Dion got from CTV to establish that prejudice exists right to the very top of our social institutions.[/b]


Once in a rare while, ( during a full lunar eclipse or whatever strange astrological phenomenon that must be happening right now)
I (gulp) agree with that one Cueball. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

ETA: but not for the reasons of French baiting. If Harpo were French,
I doubt this would have been an issue. It was a Conservative gimme by CTV.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: Mojoroad1 ]

Cueball Cueball's picture

quote:


Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]And if socialists do not vote for him it is because they are racist or is it because they see him for the corporate backed imperialist he is?

You missed my point so I will explain further. There are many people in Canada that resent the fact that to become PM it is distinct advantage to be from one particular province regardless of the language spoken at home while growing up. That is a different sentiment than rejecting Dion based on his language skills. Mulroney being the most outrageous example of an asshole that relied heavily on his being born and raised in Quebec for his political success.[/b]


So you are saying the bias is regionally based. Odd that you seem perfectly comfortable asserting that there is a prima facie case for the existance of a regional bias, but completely unable to fathom the concept that their might be other biases that are operative in mainstream discourse.

I too was brought up in Vancouver, I can confirm that my awareness of language issues and biases against Francophone Canadians was pretty shallow, and remained so until I moved to Ontario. Mind you this is not to say that British Colombians are free from such biases, because often bias expresses itself through shear ignorance, marked often by the flat denial that such biases exist.

Undue favouratism toward a specific discrete ethnic entity, is a common theme in expressed prejudice. Google for example Jews, ZOG, world conspiracy, NSDAP.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

janfromthebruce

So I get it, I didn't vote for the Dion Liberals because of Dion's accent. Oh, Ok. So next election, I'll make sure to check my unaware bias at the door of awareness.

That said, I really didn't listen to what Dion had to say, but more read what he had to say, and daily in the TorStar. I agree, there is a double standard in Canada around the fact that most folks have an expectation that 2nd langauge speakers will adapt quicker than our own expectations or awareness of our intolerance.

I noted when I lived in northern Quebec that folks were generally patient with my mangling of French but appreciated that I made the effort.

Cueball Cueball's picture

I think someone mentioned here that the problem with the wankers in the NDP is that they just can not get over their partisanship, or see things in anything other than black and white.

So, no. I doubt you did not vote for Dion because of his bad english. I suspect that you did so because he is a Liberal, and you have some notion that the NDP is somehow different from Liberals.

I think I disagree with you on that latter point but that is immaterial.

The fact that you did not vote on the basis of prejudice can not be extended to mean that all people who did not vote for Dion voted for the same reason that you did. We can see that most people did not cast their vote for exactly the same reasons as you did by the simple fact that most Canadians did not vote NDP as you did.

I know this may be shocking to hear, but not everyone thinks the same way as you do.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Bookish Agrarian

quote:


Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]I think someone mentioned here that the problem with the wankers in the NDP is that they just can not get over their partisanship, or see things in anything other than black and white.

So, no. I doubt you did not vote for Dion because of his bad english. I suspect that you did so because he is a Liberal, and you have some notion that the NDP is somehow different from Liberals.

I think I disagree with you on that latter point but that is immaterial.

The fact that you did not vote on the basis of prejudice can not be extended to mean that all people who did not vote for Dion voted for the same reason that you did. We can see that most people did not cast their vote for exactly the same reasons as you did by the simple fact that most Canadians did not vote NDP as you did.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]


Once again you prove to me you are nothing but an attacker- wankers in the NDP- isn't that sweet. You are clearly attacking another babbler. Frankly I have had enough and will be making a formal complaint.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]Your arrogance knows no bounds apparently.[/b]

Nor your ignorance.

(Now, watch as a moderator comes along and tells [b]me[/b] to lay off the personal attacks, while ignoring yours. Happens every time.)

Cueball Cueball's picture

What else am I supposed to say in the face of complete and total disregard for the existance of anti-francophone bias in Canada? It is wanking, because the only reason it seems to be coming up here is an expression of the ridiculously closed minded partisanship, as if the fact that such bias more than likely affected Dion's campaign in some way or another diminishes the recent stunning upset victory of the NDP in the last election, where they managed to reduce their overall vote count, and remain static in terms of their popular opinion, and yet increase the number of seats in phoney-balony stoogeocracy.

To me, denying the existance of anti-francophone prejudice is just as much wankery as the assertion that there is no bias against Jews, or bias against people of colour. It's just plain denial.

Calling it "wanking" is being kind.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

oldgoat

Now Spector, knock off the personal attacks.

Hey Kropotkin, how ya doin'?

ETA: Time to close for length.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

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