Jagmeet Singh Takes Nonsensical Shots At Justin Trudeau While Gives NDP Premier John Horgan A Pass

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Mighty Middle
Jagmeet Singh Takes Nonsensical Shots At Justin Trudeau While Gives NDP Premier John Horgan A Pass

The RCMP have set up a police checkpoint outside of a Wet’suwet’en First Nation site that evicted a gas company earlier this month.

Jagmeet Singh sends out a tweet saying

"News out of Wet’suwet’en territory is concerning. Mr. Trudeau says the right things about relationships with Indigenous peoples but he must match those words with respect, justice & actions. The fed gov’t is responsible for the RCMP & must answer for their choices & use of force."

However Justin Trudeau has nothing to do with this. It falls under provincial jurisdiction. As CBC National News Anchor Rosemary Barton tweeted

"The NDP leader conveniently leaves out that this project is of provincial jurisdiction and approved by the NDP premier of the province. So what exactly is he asking Ottawa to do? Direct the RCMP? Intervene? Tell BC what to do?"

So I would assume this is a fight with John Horgan, right?

voice of the damned

As you yourself state, Singh doesn't target Horgan in his tweet, so your title in misleading. I get that you're trying to be sensationalistic, but may I suggest something more accurate, but still combustible, like "Singh takes nonsensical shots at Trudeau, gives his buddy Horgan a pass"?

Mighty Middle

voice of the damned wrote:

As you yourself state, Singh doesn't target Horgan in his tweet, so your title in misleading. I get that you're trying to be sensationalistic, but may I suggest something more accurate, but still combustible, like "Singh takes nonsensical shots at Trudeau, gives his buddy Horgan a pass"?

Thanks, I wasn't quite sure of my title - but yours is more accurate, so I used yours. Thanks again.

 

voice of the damned

Hey, the sincerest form of flattery! Thanks.

And just to be clear, I don't neccessarily endorse the viewpoint taken by my suggested headline. Not sure of the jurisdictional issues about who has the final say over what the Mounties can and cannot do. Agree than Singh almost certainly has an interest in keeping the heat focused on JT and away from Horgan.

 

Pondering

Political parties shouldn't share names for reasons like this one. Singh is a federal politician so why would he take aim at Horgan, a provincial premier? To help out the provincial Liberals or the Greens? 

The majority of Canadians do not want ideological leaders. The majority of Canadians want energy projects to be judged individually.

This issue isn't about whether or not it should go through. It is about the treatment of indigenous peoples. The RCMP is a federal force. BC pays the RCMP to also act in lieu of a provincial police force but they are still a federal police force ultimately under federal control. 

It is entirely appropriate to challenge Trudeau on how the RCMP is acting on behalf of a provincial government. 

Mighty Middle

Pondering wrote:

It is entirely appropriate to challenge Trudeau on how the RCMP is acting on behalf of a provincial government. 

B.C. Premier John Horgan said "This project is proceeding and the rule of law needs to prevail in B.C.”

So why is Trudeau taking the heat for something John Horgan is initiating? Jagmeet Singh seems to be playing the old songbook of his past conflicts with then NDP Premier Rachel Notley. Singh will avoid criticizing any NDP Premier for what they are doing, but turning it around to be the blame of Justin Trudeau.

kropotkin1951

Mighty Middle wrote:

Pondering wrote:

It is entirely appropriate to challenge Trudeau on how the RCMP is acting on behalf of a provincial government. 

B.C. Premier John Horgan said "This project is proceeding and the rule of law needs to prevail in B.C.”

So why is Trudeau taking the heat for something John Horgan is initiating? Jagmeet Singh seems to be playing the old songbook of his past conflicts with then NDP Premier Rachel Notley. Singh will avoid criticizing any NDP Premier for what they are doing, but turning it around to be the blame of Justin Trudeau.

I think that Jagmeet should be speaking up firmly against the narrative of both Horgan and Trudeau that claims the Indian Act Band councils speak for the title owners of the unceded territories. This is a federally approved project despite the lack of consent by the SCC recognized indigenous leaders it is being pushed forward. Neither Trudeau not Horgan give a flying fuck about indigenous consent to projects on their traditional territories. The RCMP is a federal para-military force that charges communities for its services. For instance they have been trying to get the City of Burnaby to pay extra to police the TMX site at the tank farm even though the city has taken TMX to court to try and shut it down because it is unsafe.

Pondering

I agree with you but it's unrealistic in today's political climate. 

Mighty Middle

Pondering wrote:

I agree with you but it's unrealistic in today's political climate. 

Which is why Jagmeet is laying this solely on Trudeau, and not even mentioning Horgan. As Singh doesn't want to ailenate Horgan's NDP supporters. Which shows Singh is like every other politician picking his battles.

voice of the damned

Pondering wrote:

Political parties shouldn't share names for reasons like this one.

Or, at least, the public should be educated to understand that sharing a name, or even an overarching organizational structure, doesn't neccessarily mean that two parties are going to agree on every issue.

Though something I've been curious about: prior to Notley vs. Horgan on pipelines, had there been any cases of two NDP provincial governments at loggerheads over something? Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

Mighty Middle

voice of the damned wrote:

Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

Bob Rae & Audrey McLaughlin

voice of the damned

Mighty Middle wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

Bob Rae & Audrey McLaughlin

Can you refresh my memory? What was the issue?

bekayne

voice of the damned wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Political parties shouldn't share names for reasons like this one.

Or, at least, the public should be educated to understand that sharing a name, or even an overarching organizational structure, doesn't neccessarily mean that two parties are going to agree on every issue.

Though something I've been curious about: prior to Notley vs. Horgan on pipelines, had there been any cases of two NDP provincial governments at loggerheads over something? Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

The Constitution, early 1980s

voice of the damned

bekayne wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Political parties shouldn't share names for reasons like this one.

Or, at least, the public should be educated to understand that sharing a name, or even an overarching organizational structure, doesn't neccessarily mean that two parties are going to agree on every issue.

Though something I've been curious about: prior to Notley vs. Horgan on pipelines, had there been any cases of two NDP provincial governments at loggerheads over something? Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

The Constitution, early 1980s

Blakeney vs. Broadbent?

 

NDPP

After widespread calls for a public inquiry into the 1995 Gustafsen Lake crisis, federal NDP leader Alexa Mcdonough supported the call against the BC NDP's refusal to countenance one.

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

After widespread calls for a public inquiry into the 1995 Gustafsen Lake crisis, federal NDP leader Alexa Mcdonough supported the call against the BC NDP's refusal to countenance one.

Thanks.

 

Sean in Ottawa

Just a counterpoint. Rather than simply saying they should not share names there is another point. If th NDP in one jurisdiction cannot explain their position to the NDP in another jurisdiction in a way that is understandable, does that not mean that one of those positions or communications is incorrect? If another NDP cannot accept the stance -- how can the public?

In some of these cases the NDP has taken positions that are at odds with principles of the party and has failed to explain why they "had to" do so. Many of those governments were defeated in part due to these splits.

I think honestly agreeing to differe -- and saying exactly why is what the party can do at times and the public will understand even while shoosing which side so long as the position is one that is explained and is of some integrity.

I am not offering this as a conclusion but using different names does not solve the problem of some pretty poor communications and some very bad positions taken at times. Perhaps the party can listen to friendly criticsm and respond better.

kropotkin1951

The BC NDP is a tightly controlled institution with a tendency to nepotism. The federal NDP members from BC often get chewed up in the Ottawa political games. Either a political party believes in UNDRIP or they don't and actions are all that counts especially when a government's actions are at odds with its high sounding words. I voted for Scott Fraser last election despite not trusting the BC NDP because they promised action on PR and UNDRIP. I've seen the "action" and I am not impressed. I hope the Eco-Socialists find a credible candidate for my riding.

bekayne

voice of the damned wrote:

bekayne wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Political parties shouldn't share names for reasons like this one.

Or, at least, the public should be educated to understand that sharing a name, or even an overarching organizational structure, doesn't neccessarily mean that two parties are going to agree on every issue.

Though something I've been curious about: prior to Notley vs. Horgan on pipelines, had there been any cases of two NDP provincial governments at loggerheads over something? Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

The Constitution, early 1980s

Blakeney vs. Broadbent?

 

Yes.

cco

voice of the damned wrote:

bekayne wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Political parties shouldn't share names for reasons like this one.

Or, at least, the public should be educated to understand that sharing a name, or even an overarching organizational structure, doesn't neccessarily mean that two parties are going to agree on every issue.

Though something I've been curious about: prior to Notley vs. Horgan on pipelines, had there been any cases of two NDP provincial governments at loggerheads over something? Or a provincial NDP vs. the federal party, as is implicitly the case with Horgan and Singh right now?  

The Constitution, early 1980s

Blakeney vs. Broadbent?

 

The NPDQ was expelled from the federal party and had to change its name, eventually becoming Québec solidaire.

kropotkin1951

Broadbent's stand on the constitution was not just a battle with Blakeney but it was an affront to the majority of party members in Western Canada. The NDP federal party took an Ontario centric perspective and chose the losing side in the debate. The Ottawa bubble produces very bad decisions because our MP's keep getting told the "national interest" or "party interest" should supercede what they know is best for their particular area.

Mighty Middle

The Green Party issues a press release calling on Trudeau and Horgan to respect Wet’suwet’en rights

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/media-release/2020-01-21/green-party-calls-...

quizzical

Horgan doesn't have a say when the RCMP are following a federal judges findings. full stop.

kropotkin1951

quizzical wrote:

Horgan doesn't have a say when the RCMP are following a federal judges findings. full stop.

That is absolutely right. He could just pull my tax dollars and my kid's and grand kids and great grand children's tax dollars from the project and it would collapse without the RCMP being involved.

quizzical

am so sick of people's variations on "what about my tax dollars".

it's such a right wing ideology.

sorry kropotkin but i find appeals to the tax god mentality to be bs. i could care less my tax dollars are still paying off debt from parents and grandparents days. 

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

quizzical wrote:

Horgan doesn't have a say when the RCMP are following a federal judges findings. full stop.

This statement alone refutes the entire core of this thread. This puts the RCMP under the responsibility of the Federal government and explains why Jagmeet Singh is hammering Justin Trudeau on this issue.

I'm sure that many on this board are opposed to the BC government's support but the topic of this thread is still a Liberal trolling thread intended to stir up dissent within the provincial and federal NDP. Jagmeet Singh is the national leader and his job is to hold the Prime Minister to account for his government's actions. 

The BC voters can decide for themselves what their provincial government is doing.

Jagmeet Singh did not like Quebec's secularism law and he made his views known but avoided that issue as well as did Justin Trudeau btw.

Thanks quiz.

Sean in Ottawa

Misfit wrote:

quizzical wrote:

Horgan doesn't have a say when the RCMP are following a federal judges findings. full stop.

This statement alone refutes the entire core of this thread. This puts the RCMP under the responsibility of the Federal government and explains why Jagmeet Singh is hammering Justin Trudeau on this issue.

I'm sure that many on this board are opposed to the BC government's support but the topic of this thread is still a Liberal trolling thread intended to stir up dissent within the provincial and federal NDP. Jagmeet Singh is the national leader and his job is to hold the Prime Minister to account for his government's actions. 

The BC voters can decide for themselves what their provincial government is doing.

Jagmeet Singh did not like Quebec's secularism law and he made his views known but avoided that issue as well as did Justin Trudeau btw.

Thanks quiz.

Yep what Quizzical and Misfit said

Sean in Ottawa

That does not mean that the provincial NDP should be given a pass about its policies - but the link here to Singh is bogus.

kropotkin1951

quizzical wrote:

am so sick of people's variations on "what about my tax dollars".

it's such a right wing ideology.

sorry kropotkin but i find appeals to the tax god mentality to be bs. i could care less my tax dollars are still paying off debt from parents and grandparents days. 

 

The BC NDP is mortgaging my province and my kids futures to build carbon infrastructure. If he wasn't subsidizing this project it would not go ahead.

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

That does not mean that the provincial NDP should be given a pass about its policies - but the link here to Singh is bogus.

Singh is the one who brought up

NDPP

Oh Yeah?

"I Support Our NDP Government In BC And Its Forward Looking Approach To UNDRIP' - Jagmeet Singh

https://twitter.com/RussDiabo/status/1220129279398371328

"Indian Act Colonialism!"

NDP = No Difference Party!

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

That does not mean that the provincial NDP should be given a pass about its policies - but the link here to Singh is bogus.

Singh is the one who brought up

No he did not. He brought up the role of the RCMP not the provincial policy. 

Are you  having a comprehension problem? Try removing the heavy red coloured glasses and you might be able to see better.

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

That does not mean that the provincial NDP should be given a pass about its policies - but the link here to Singh is bogus.

Singh is the one who brought up

No he did not. He brought up the role of the RCMP not the provincial policy. 

Are you  having a comprehension problem? Try removing the heavy red coloured glasses and you might be able to see better.

As CBC National News Anchor Rosemary Barton tweeted

"The NDP leader conveniently leaves out that this project is of provincial jurisdiction and approved by the NDP premier of the province. So what exactly is he asking Ottawa to do? Direct the RCMP? Intervene? Tell BC what to do?"

So Sean please answer Rosemary Barton question as to what Trudeau should do.

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

That does not mean that the provincial NDP should be given a pass about its policies - but the link here to Singh is bogus.

Singh is the one who brought up

No he did not. He brought up the role of the RCMP not the provincial policy. 

Are you  having a comprehension problem? Try removing the heavy red coloured glasses and you might be able to see better.

As CBC National News Anchor Rosemary Barton tweeted

"The NDP leader conveniently leaves out that this project is of provincial jurisdiction and approved by the NDP premier of the province. So what exactly is he asking Ottawa to do? Direct the RCMP? Intervene? Tell BC what to do?"

So Sean please answer Rosemary Barton question as to what Trudeau should do.

I do not have to answer Liberals on this -- not you -- not Barton -- and not the CBC. 

Sean in Ottawa

However, I am sure that anyone can come up with other ways of communicating than force. 

decisions like:

"Days before Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced the initial approval for the Trans Mountain pipeline, the RCMP reactivated a seemingly dormant list of Indigenous rights activists deemed potential "criminal threats," internal RCMP emails and documents show. "

"

On one track, senior officers, including input from then-RCMP commissioner Robert Paulson, were drafting media lines in response to a news report about the project, trying to play down Sitka by emphasizing the project was over and that it did not target Indigenous people, he said. 

On the other track, officers involved in federal policing were moving to reactivate elements of Sitka as the federal government prepared to announce its initial approval of Trans Mountain, he said.  

"These meetings are happening about pipeline announcements," said Monaghan."

""Where you start having situations where police officers are told ahead of time that their safety is at risk, that there are volatile activists, the chances of de-escalation are dramatically reduced," he said."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/rcmp-project-sitka-list-1.5422152

https://www.straight.com/news/1348386/first-nations-leaders-call-rcmp-refrain-violence-pipeline-standoff

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I do not have to answer Liberals on this -- not you -- not Barton -- and not the CBC. 

Yep - that is the whole problem with Jagmeet Singh not able to communicate any type of policy properly, which only makes the media ask even more questions, because they are not getting a clear answer.

quizzical

kropotkin1951 wrote:

quizzical wrote:

am so sick of people's variations on "what about my tax dollars".

it's such a right wing ideology.

sorry kropotkin but i find appeals to the tax god mentality to be bs. i could care less my tax dollars are still paying off debt from parents and grandparents days. 

 

The BC NDP is mortgaging my province and my kids futures to build carbon infrastructure. If he wasn't subsidizing this project it would not go ahead.

no. tax cuts and reduced hydro rates are not mortgaging anything.

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I do not have to answer Liberals on this -- not you -- not Barton -- and not the CBC. 

Yep - that is the whole problem with Jagmeet Singh not able to communicate any type of policy properly, which only makes the media ask even more questions, because they are not getting a clear answer.

You ignored my last post. I guess there was nothing there for you to work into your propaganda?

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

You ignored my last post. I guess there was nothing there for you to work into your propaganda?

Because you said

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I do not have to answer Liberals on this -- not you -- not Barton -- and not the CBC. 

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

You ignored my last post. I guess there was nothing there for you to work into your propaganda?

Because you said

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I do not have to answer Liberals on this -- not you -- not Barton -- and not the CBC. 

but I did anyway and this shows what your real intent is and it has nothing to do with anything other than shilling for Liberals. 

kropotkin1951

Another day another squabble. Is the porridge too hot or too cold?

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Another day another squabble. Is the porridge too hot or too cold?

fuck off. I know you posted that just to get a reaction so there it is. You pick the fights and then feel picked on.

I really don't know why you do this as your personality must get a enough of that in your offline life.

Mighty Middle

Indigenous youth living in Lekwungen Territories standing in solidarity with Wet’suwet’en Nation are holding a press conference tomorrow, Jan 24 @ 9am outside of the Victoria legislature

Mighty Middle

There’s a reason Jagmeet Singh won’t take a clear stand on the Coastal GasLink, a 670-km natural gas pipeline project in northern British Columbia that has galvanized opposition from Indigenous groups and environmentalists.

In his own words, it’s complicated.

The province’s NDP government has insisted the project will go ahead, sparking objections from former NDP MPs Romeo Saganash and Svend Robinson that it is violating the spirit of its legislation to enshrine the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in law.

Singh has not shared in that criticism.

Nor, however, has he rejected it.

“There’s a lot of complexity to the situation,” the federal NDP leader said when asked this week about protests in B.C. and calls from hereditary chiefs of the Wet’suwet’en nation to halt the construction of the pipeline.

“The (UN) declaration and reconciliation are all very complex things,” Singh said. “The path that we need to walk as a society, as a country, to reconciliation, to justice, is a difficult path. But we need to walk it.”

Svend Robinson, who was a New Democrat member of Parliament from B.C. for 25 years, told the Star he is disappointed in Singh’s lack of a position on the pipeline. He argued the federal NDP’s opposition to fracking — the controversial process that will provide natural gas for the new pipeline — should spur Singh to denounce the project. On top of that, Robinson said, building the pipeline without the consent of Indigenous nations breaks with the rights the NDP fought to include in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

“The federal NDP and the leader should be taking a strong stand in solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs and respecting UNDRIP,” Robinson said.

Meanwhile, in Singh’s own caucus on Parliament Hill, newly elected Winnipeg Centre MP Leah Gazan told the Star this week that construction of the pipeline should be stopped unless the province and company building it have the “free, prior and informed consent” of hereditary chiefs that is called for in the UN declaration.

She pointed to court rulings that uphold Wet’suwet’en title over the nation’s traditional territory, and said she agrees with statements by the B.C. Human Rights Commissioner and UN Committee to End Racial Discrimination, which have recently called for construction to halt unless there’s consent from affected nations.

“They’re saying until there is really demonstrated free, prior and informed consent of all parties involved, we need to halt what we’re doing and let people figure it out before we proceed,” Gazan said.

Asked if she is happy with Singh’s statements on the pipeline, she said, “I’ve given my position on it and I’ll just leave it at that.”

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/01/23/should-bc-build-a-ne...

voice of the damned

Heh. Mighty Middle slightly bowdlerized that Star article. Here's a passage he left out from his copy-and-paste...

Others are certainly saying that. Saganash, a residential school survivor who represented a northern Quebec riding for the NDP from 2011 until last year, has posted pointed criticism of Horgan on social media. In one post, he compared Horgan to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for being “all talk, no action” on Indigenous reconciliation.

Maybe MM wasn't too keen on seeing the Liberals held up as the gold-standard for political hypocrisy?

 

Mighty Middle

voice of the damned wrote:

Maybe MM wasn't too keen on seeing the Liberals held up as the gold-standard for political hypocrisy?

Yes but the whole point of this thread is how Jagmeet Singh is willing to criticize Justin Trudeau but he is 100% SILENT about John Horgan. Singh needs to live up to his slogan of "courage" by showing some in being critical of John Horgan.

Svend Robinson, Winnipeg Centre MP Leah Gazan and Romeo Saganash are not afraid of speaking out against Justin Trudeau AND John Horgan

Jagmeet Singh is fine with being critical of Trudeau, but why not Horgan? That is the whole point of this thread.

But please, if you have a quote where Singh is equally critical of John Horgan, share it with all of us now. If not the question is, why is Jagmeet so afraid?

Misfit Misfit's picture

The height of flattery to a troll is to engage with that troll.

voice of the damned

Misfit wrote:

The height of flattery to a troll is to engage with that troll.

Well, I think it's generally known around here that MM likes to post stuff meant to discomfit New Democrats, so it's unlikely that anyone is being duped into unwittingly supporting his agenda.

And, really, if New Democrats can't defend their party against a relative milquetoast like MM, how are they gonna defend it out in the analog world, against people who are diametrically opposed to all the party stands for?

But yes, for the benefit of anyone not yet hip to the game: Mighty Middle tends to post articles intended to make New Democrats look bad, presumably to see what kind of reaction he gets.

.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Which party trashed Trudeau for buying 'elitist'donuts from a local business instead of buying 'Canadian' donuts from Tim Horton's ?

I doubt it'd be the NDP. If it's the party I suspect, this proves again why they cannot be given the power again -- ever.

 

Mighty Middle

Svend Robinson tweets

Thank you @lisahelps and Victoria City Council for your strong and principled leadership in solidarity with the Wet'suwet'en people, and respect for UNDRIP and Delgamuukw. Time for @NDP and @theJagmeetSingh to take a stand as well. #WetsuwetenStrong #cdnpoli

https://twitter.com/Svend4MP/status/1221204508174405632?s=20

jerrym

double post

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