Jack Layton does "Let's Make a Deal"

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Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture
Jack Layton does "Let's Make a Deal"

So, the Winnipeg Free Press features a Headlin that Layton is open to dealing with Harper on the budget. I am assuming this is primarily becauswe Layton thinks going to the polls now would be bad for the NDP.

What I am wondering is how wise is this? I am thinking it makes it easier for the Liberals to tie the NDP closer to Harper and to set themselves up as the real opposition and alternative to Harper.

So I would be really interested in knowing what people think, and if there is something else more sophisticated going on then I assume or understand.

Arthur Cramer, Winnipeg

Life, the unive...

It is called positioning. 

 

ETA

By the way your title is way off.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Well, I posted because I wanted to know what you thought. You don't think its because Jack is worried about going to the polls now? How do you think this plays to non pols?

Arthur Cramer, Winnipeg

takeitslowly

i i know i need an election, i could make some badly needed extra money..

ottawaobserver

Was just at a social event with a lot of people from the Hill. They looked and sounded pretty upbeat to me.

Arthur, you remember how the media reacted last time Layton said ahead of time that they likely wouldn't support the budget? And then what happened last September when Iggy started sabre rattling for no good reason at all? THAT'S why Jack is trying to be constructive now, but let's just say that every evidence is that the Conservatives have no intention of being constructive, and we know it, and are very very ready to go.

You must know from long years of following the NDP that being underestimated always works to our favour, right?

Life, the unive...

Arthur this message is directed at the non-political.  People are sick to the hilt of political game playing.  By laying out some very straightforward issues with doable solutions Layton is showing that he is an honest broker focused on tangible items that most people would support.  It makes the Cons look obstructionist and uncaring.  As I said in one of the other many threads were this issue has been discussed this time out Layton is playing it just about right.

takeitslowly

I think its great the NDP is talking about employment insurance but they should specifically demand there be changes to the outdated the EI system. Its so unfair, people get fired for so many reasons and many Ontarians are not able to access any employment insurance when they lose their part time /temporary/contract jobs.

 

 

Its not enough to only look out for people who lost their unionized jobs , if any of the parties is serious about reaching out for support from  the apathetic low income precarious workers, they need to listen and do something for the large amount of marginalized workers.

thorin_bane

He is saying the right thing because the media is going after him. Evan and his right wing stooges and liza frulla the full on liberal, have been lambasting the ndp for 2 weeks now on this saying how the NDP will cave. I see very little posibility the Harperites would even bother with concessions.

Its funny because they(MSM) always hold the NDP to a differnet standard. Did they do the same thing to iggy? Nope. They never even followed up on his one and only concession to passing the 2009 budget, and that was the 1/4ley reports that harper never gave out. WHy? Well because it serves their interests for canadians to not know. Iggy is nothing more than a neo con so they are happy playing the 2 horse race bullshit. The fact the NDP haven't fallen off the map to 93 levels says they have failed to split the vote even with the fear and rampant lies and distortions about current policy and that of the opposition parties.

I watch Laurie Hawn just make a disgrace of himself by being rude, continues interupting and in the back ground such BS words as "none sense, thats not true, you are wrong" when anyone else speaks. Yet their supporters cling to these incometant morons(Did you know our defence minister thinks BC borders california-arnold had to correct him) so i can only say bullshit baffles brains.

ottawaobserver

I take it as a very good sign that all the other parties are attacking us, and that the Conservatives decided to create an attack ad against Jack. Very good sign. If you read the french papers, the Bloc is attacking us too.

The Liberal pollster had us at 19% in a very very large-sample poll. That's a pretty good base for us to be going into a campaign with. Ekos has us at 14.8 and the Greens at nearly 10. If the Greens get 10, I'll be a monkey's uncle.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Ok, I get this. Thanks to everyone. Not trying to be stupid, just trying to understand it. I really honestly think you guys are intlelligent and know what is going on. That is why I posted. I wanted to know what this was about. I wasn't trying to be either obtuse, by violtion or otherewise, or trying to say we should be worried. Just asking the question, looking for answers. Got that. I feel if I can't ask questions here and trust the answers given, then I really don't know where else I would ask them.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time.

Arthur Cramer, Winnipeg

Le T Le T's picture

Layton's a city councilor by trade and will try to get what he wants by any procedural means possible. He will sell this as "getting things done for working Canadians" or "Harper is unwilling to compromise despite being in a minority situation", depending on how things go. Win/win for the NDP unless they do something stupid like let the F-35s and extended mission slide through on small EI and CPP improvements. This is of course the downside to the extending-a-hat-to-those-in-power technique that social democrats have tried to make the dominant way of getting shit done.

Unionist

What Le T said. Although I'll be pleasantly surprised to see even small EI and CPP/QPP gains. The EI improvement which the NDP voted for in 2009 to save the government was worse than "small".

Life, the unive...

No it was not small - unless you live in some kind of protective bubble. 

I've mentioned this before- I personally know two families, including my daughters, that those improvements made a big difference in their lives.  In fact, in my daughters case it allowed them to hang onto their home until other work was found when the bank was starting to swoop in.  For the other family it meant that they could stay in the area where there elderly father lives and care for him while work was found.  Work in many areas of the country is pretty damn hard to come by when one of the area's main employers pack up and leave.  Thankfully both those couples are now employed, even though it is not with as well paying a jobs and without benefits - at least they can pay the bills.

Le T Le T's picture

Right, but that's two out of a couple million people. I would agree that they were "less than small" when we consider the cost.

 

ETA: Were not those improvements also temporary? Just until the end of the "crisis"?

Life, the unive...

Yes, - the were temporary and that was a failing.

On the larger issue though if in a small community like mine two couples were helped out, (that I personally know) it is not hard to figure that there were lots and lots of people who were simlarly helped.

That might be small bananas to you two "or less than nothing" but to actual unemployed people facing hard time, it was a huge difference for them.  I really wish everyone could live in these pefectionist bubbles where only the most pure of things need only ever be contemplated.

Buddy Kat

Well it's obvious the NDP aren't serious about this election...the last time Layton made deals with Harper it didn't go to well for the NDP....Voters look at it in a different way than Layton does...voters say the Cons are smart ..look how they manipulated Layton in supporting us....Layton say's , we are working for Canadians blah blah blah and unfortunantely it doesn't pan out in the polls ..does it?

Voting Canadians (greater than 65 and retired collecting Tommy D.'s pension) don't understand UI extensions etc etc...The rest of Canadians (one's that don't vote) all they understand is hardship or paying too much tax...so being nice to them works the opposite to how the NDP think..Yes Canadians for the most part are simpletons..they don't get or care how the NDP works for them ..only a small percentage do (16%) and that's it.....the NDP is doomed , playing nice to the worker class.

Then there is the time before (2 elections ago) where we wouldn't even be looking at Harpers mug for 5 years if it wasn't for Layton jumping in the tub with him...oh you really did good in the polls over that one NDP!

Nope if the NDP want to go good in the polls they would avoid Cons like the plague ..take a tough stand on all there values that made Canada great .....pensions ...ui ...medicare ...centralized banking....etc. Negative ads showing Harper and Iggy drinking and laughing at Canadians from the confines of there private mason club wouldn't hurt..and let the Neocons punish Canadians like they have never been punished before..then when the rioting and civil disobedience causes an election they can pull off a clean sweep.

Unfortunately by that time the country should be totally bankrupt and the medi system destroyed by the right...so Canada you get what's coming to you ..it's not like people didn't warn you ....Wink

 

Life, the unive...

Your comments are so full of inaccuracies and invented history it is hard to take seriously let along bother to correct.

kropotkin1951

Where can I find the NDP's proposed budget?  I have no problem with Jack saying here is our budget plan and we will support the Conservatives if their plan looks anything like ours.  That would focus on what the party would do and would take the policy points being made by the NDP out of the Conservative frame and into a progressive one.  If Jack on the other hand looks like he will deal with the devil for a few crumbs it will not win any new support.

Life, the unive...

This is on the front page of the NDP's website.  It obviously isn't the full deal, but it shows the kinds of things the NDP is focusing on.  And they are practical, tangible, believable and doable things that speak to where a lot of voters are right now. Things the Conservatives, and Liberals for that matter, will never agree too.  In other words Layton is setting the stage for the NDPs focus for the election.  An election that is coming and that the NDP clearly wants.

 

 

http://www.ndp.ca/press/put-partisan-games-aside-get-things-done-ndp

duncan cameron

I wrote about this here;

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2011/01/jack-layton-celebrates-eight-years-n...

For the record, Layton says that politics is about bringing people together. He opposes setting some people against other people for partisan advantage. In this case he is taking about parliamentarians, and what governments can achieve by reaching across the aisle, using the Pearson, TC Douglas example on medicare. That is his first preference.

On a broader level, bringing together all farm families, salaried and waged employees, and those on a social wage, also qualify as bringing people together, and is entirely consistent with the need to struggle against the capitalist class as well. That was what the CCF/NDP was created to do after all.

If the first option fails he said the party was ready for an election. 

 

Slumberjack

duncan cameron wrote:
For the record, Layton says that politics is about bringing people together. He opposes setting some people against other people for partisan advantage. 

Is there really that much interest out there in bringing people together with the Harperites and the Liberanos?

inukjuak inukjuak's picture

I really don't understand why Mr Layton gets bad press for providing nuanced statements about what his party will or will not do in response to a budget that has not yet been tabled. I want a party that is ready for an election...but even readier to work to improve things for the generality of the Canadian population. Is it just that a nuanced position doesn't make a very good headline? He's acting like the grownup in the room, and good for him for it.

Le T Le T's picture

the NDP always gets bad press. i think it has something to do with how the owners of said press vote.

Quote:
I really wish everyone could live in these pefectionist bubbles where only the most pure of things need only ever be contemplated.

And by "perfectionist" you mean people in greater need getting what your friends got? I think that if you backup and take a breath you will note that i have nothing against your friends and that the elimination of all poverty is not "perfectionist" or idealist but is a easily achieveable goal that rich people in power simply choose not to do.

Life, the unive...

So shit all over those who did get some help in a situation that meant that was all that could be acheived.  Unless you think that if Layton had forced an election, and with the Liberals in free-fall at the time, we would have somehow ended up with something other than a Harper majority.  That was the real world situation you are crapping all over.

Buddy Kat

inukjuak wrote:

I really don't understand why Mr Layton gets bad press for providing nuanced statements about what his party will or will not do in response to a budget that has not yet been tabled. I want a party that is ready for an election...but even readier to work to improve things for the generality of the Canadian population. Is it just that a nuanced position doesn't make a very good headline? He's acting like the grownup in the room, and good for him for it.

Because it's not up to Jack Layton ..it's up to the press....the press has been taken over by the right and if the right wants to ignore or rip or prop up Jack Layton and the NDP they will...as it is right now they treat the NDP like a joke ...a no show ...and prop up only the Conservative and the Liberal...the rest don't count.

That's why I say the NDP should be just concentrating on the good things they are responsible for in this country..anything they come up with will be torn down and spit on by the media ..until they have a nation wide media that can rip the neocon to pieces and prop up the left it will be that way and make no mistake the media is the boss and they can make or break anyone..pretty well at any time.

You have noticed that Jack Layton is the grown up in the room..your right unfortunately it's just you and 15% of Canadians that can see that..the rest obviously can't.

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkM5eyN8ytI&feature=user

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
So shit all over those who did get some help in a situation that meant that was all that could be acheived. Unless you think that if Layton had forced an election, and with the Liberals in free-fall at the time, we would have somehow ended up with something other than a Harper majority. That was the real world situation you are crapping all over.

I'm not shitting or crapping on anything except the continuation of poverty and the toilet. And just to be clear, you are lecturing me on "the real world situation" by invoking what could have happened, had something else happened, some time ago.

KenS

I beleive the reference was to "bad press" around here, because its not the media knocking the NDP.

They dont directly knock the NDP, that is done here. The media get the reporting all secrewed up, heavily stilted by their low opinion of the NDP. That remains a subtext that "informs" the "analysis"... the NDP is afraid of an election because its goint to lose seats, they need to be seen as getting something from the Conservatives, the Caucus is divided, yada yada.

Whats funniest is people around here taking it as what is going on. Sheesh. 

The NDP is letting low expecations float out there in the media- because its more important to be seen as ready to do something useful. The low expectations will correct themselves later.

Babble has its own special version of the low expectations, but the speculation of what is to come is rooted in the same nonsense the media circulates.

Buddy Kat

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Your comments are so full of inaccuracies and invented history it is hard to take seriously let along bother to correct.

Don't take my word for it ..look at the polls youreself and the last 5 years of conservative trash that the ndp help prop up . Remember when the Libs were being destroyed by the media/gromely mess...in the tub with Harper he went...you would think he would of learnt his lesson. Now he is thinking of showering with him...one bit of advice ..don't bend over to pick up the soap Jack....

 

Bring people together...the media will make mince meat out of you ..the conservatives believe in divide and conquer they run the media ...good luck trying to reverse the media ..only 15% of Canadians will see thru it..the rest are already bought ..hook, line and sinker....but yeah at least Jack layton has integrity,  Canadians don't want it and the media rejects it. so..what can you say...keep plugin away at it ..maybe it'll sink in one day.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkM5eyN8ytI&feature=user

Life, the unive...

The real history is that Martin rejected overtures to fix health care and to take further actions on a number of issues.  Martin forced an election he thought he was going to win.  Than ran the worse campaign in Canadian history, only surpassed by Dion.  That's the real story, not some fantasy that the NDP was in the tub with the Conservatives.  This oft repeated Liberal myth is pure hogwash.

Life, the unive...

Le T wrote:

Quote:
So shit all over those who did get some help in a situation that meant that was all that could be acheived. Unless you think that if Layton had forced an election, and with the Liberals in free-fall at the time, we would have somehow ended up with something other than a Harper majority. That was the real world situation you are crapping all over.

I'm not shitting or crapping on anything except the continuation of poverty and the toilet. And just to be clear, you are lecturing me on "the real world situation" by invoking what could have happened, had something else happened, some time ago.

Yet you call real assistance, that helped real families and real individuals in real life danger and financial hardship- 'less than nothing'  To those many, many people it was a hell of a lot more than 'less than nothing'.  Was it enough to end poverty in Canada - of course not - but show me where the NDP had a real, not imagined, chance to do that with either the Martin or Harper governments.

takeitslowly

many working poor people cant get ANY EI.

Life, the unive...

Yes I know.  But that doesn't mean we belittle the needs of others who are not well off just because they do.

takeitslowly

Well, it seems like though that its time we have an election that should be focus on those who never get anything, never get represented, and never have their voices heard in any political battles/campaign. not going to happen! Thats the problem with political compromises, the middle class and the poor get crumbs, and the really poor get nothing as usual.

Sean in Ottawa

Yeah, Layton is doing let's make a deal alright-- with the NDP's printers.

Stuff is being printed now so while the NDP is certainly interested in any opportunity to achieve something for Canadians and is coming out open-minded-- don't think for a second that they believe we will avoid an electon.

Time to buy some comfortable shoes we are on our way it seems..

kropotkin1951

takeitslowly wrote:

Well, it seems like though that its time we have an election that should be focus on those who never get anything, never get represented, and never have their voices heard in any political battles/campaign. not going to happen! Thats the problem with political compromises, the middle class and the poor get crumbs, and the really poor get nothing as usual.

Smile  

It seems to me that a party must have priorities and therefore if it is trying to win middle class votes then the party's efforts in office will go to that class.  Not only is EI way to hard to get it is also a pittance for workers making retail store incomes. Besides most of the underclass work two or three jobs and therefore are effectively barred from drawing any benefits unless they lost all their jobs at once.  

I am glad Jack is acting like an adult and I hope he gets to make his points in the media but I doubt it. This idea that the press is biased against the NDP is very, very old. Tommy didn't get elected because he got favourable coverage in the MSM.  He got elected because he and his party met with people at their kitchen tables and in small halls were he gave great lectures.  I think that face to face engagement with voters will always be the NDP's best weapon.  Lets face it the NDP will never get favourable press in the MSM so it must use other means to meet and persuade voters.

Aristotleded24

Life, the universe, everything wrote:
The real history is that Martin rejected overtures to fix health care and to take further actions on a number of issues.  Martin forced an election he thought he was going to win.  Than ran the worse campaign in Canadian history, only surpassed by Dion.  That's the real story, not some fantasy that the NDP was in the tub with the Conservatives.  This oft repeated Liberal myth is pure hogwash.

Don't forget that the Liberals would have fallen with or without NDP support anyways.

Buddy Kat

Yep already there was a pundit saying there is Jack in a top hat with flowers and a box of chocolates running to Harper and Harper aint giving him the time of day....already they got him painted as a friggin clown....Canadians suck it up and laugh....quit playing nice NDP..the country wants you swinging a machete in the conservative direction , come on rub Harpers nose in the mess he has created.....remember the last political leaders debate and Harper said "Canadians aren't worried about losing there homes and employment" rub their tory assed faces in it

duncan cameron

Jack Layton is reminding people that the Harper government can get things done for Canadians. Harper will trigger an election if he thinks he can win it. If not he will look for a deal with Duceppe or Layton. Layton wants people to know that the decision belongs to Harper. Of course Harper will blame all the opposition parties for the unnecessary election he triggered, if it comes to that.

If the mainstream media were indeed providing democracy with oxygen, instead of waging the class war from above, rabble.ca would not need to exist as a news site.

I started following parliament in 1966. From what I've seen since, rabble.ca is the first place the NDP has ever had a fair shake. Only the alternative media are independent of corporate influence.

Since we are on the subject of rabble.ca, our budget is about $200,000 a year. Don Cherry gets over $600,000 from the public broadcaster. Since rabble.ca are running a fund raiser, please think about setting up a monthly contribution. We want to double our budget to provide better staff working conditions, and do a better job. Our staff are part-time, and all volunteer additional time. 

Unionist

takeitslowly wrote:

many working poor people cant get ANY EI.

That's right. What's needed is EI reform. In our discussions last year, I agreed with Lana Payne - president of the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Labour. Here's what she said in September 2009 about Harper's EI bill:

Lana Payne wrote:

I am a UI/EI junkie. Just wanted to get that out of the way. I would like to add that this proposal sets a dangerous precedent as it attacks and diminishes the principles of social insurance. Social insurance as we know is a lot different than experienced-based insurance. C-50 says an individual is entitled to extra benefits based on their experience with the EI system, how much they have collected in the past and how much they have paid in premiums. This is what the Liberals tried to do in the 1990s when they first introduced EI. At that time it was called the Intensity Rule and workers were penalized (with a lower benefit rate) for every 20 weeks of benefits they collected to a low of 50%, while everyone else got 55% of their average earnings.

Basing entitlement on past use of the EI system and how much you have paid into the system, changes the principles from social insurance to experience-rated insurance just the direction the Conservatives want. They are using the economic crisis to damage what has been a long-standing and very important program for Canadian working people.

In addition to being offended by who is left out in this EI proposal, we must also denounce the dangerous precedent that this sets.

We were successful in getting rid of that nasty Intensity Rule, but it took tremendous fightback - 11 MPs (Liberals) in Atlantic Canada lost their jobs as a result of those so-called EI reforms.

By the way, Duncan, it's good to see you here as always. But I'd like to remind you of what you said on the same topic. You were right - in theory - but I had a hard time then believing that you could see a way for the NDP to build on what was obviously a dirty little trap laid by Harper:

duncan cameron wrote:
This is a minority parliament. There are ways of opposing the government other than forcing an election. One way is (on second reading, approval in principle) to support a bill to change EI even if it offers only crumbs, and then in committee to bring in Armine, Stephen, Andrew Jackson and other experts to tell the public what is wrong with it, and how it should be amended.

Together the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc have a majority of votes. Since the government does not contribute to the EI fund, you could argue this is not a money bill and should be amended, even if spending does go up.

Perhaps we can learn the lessons of the past if we are not to repeat it?

[url=http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/09/18/ei-woes/]Source.[/url]

ETA: Actually, that whole page, and Armine Yalzinyan's lead article, are well worth reviewing, in light of the decisions that we need to make soon. Especially her cautionary note:

Armine Yalniyan wrote:
The Conservatives are again playing Parliament like a fiddle, and members of the Opposition risk getting Conned once again. I don’t envy them.

Me neither.

takeitslowly

I just like to add a little note: Another way that prevents someone from getting EI is when the employers refuse to fire someone, but instead reduce the worker's hours to the extent that the employee would have to quit on their own. There are so  so many ways someone can fall through the EI system, its a complete joke.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

duncan cameron wrote:

Jack Layton is reminding people that the Harper government can get things done for Canadians.

Reminding? You mean, like we've all forgotten how the Harper government can get things done for us? WTF?

duncan cameron wrote:
On a broader level, bringing together all farm families, salaried and waged employees, and those on a social wage, also qualify as bringing people together, and is entirely consistent with the need to struggle against the capitalist class as well.

Um, yeah, if your idea of "struggle against the capitalist class" is [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/put-partisan-games-aside-get-things-done-ndp]"a small boost to the GIS and a modest increase to the Canada Pension Plan"[/url]!

KenS

M. Spector wrote:

duncan cameron wrote:

Jack Layton is reminding people that the Harper government can get things done for Canadians.

Reminding? You mean, like we've all forgotten how the Harper government can get things done for us? WTF?

Someone who spends all their time talking to the in crowd, and just thinking about talking to the in crowd, couldn't be expected to understand Duncan's point.

Reminder: "It is very much in this governments power to do something in your interest." Subtext- if they dont, its not because it can't be done, it is because they choose not to.

I was thinking about what Duncan said that Rabble is a media where the NDP gets a fair shake. Which is true. Babble is the location for venting.

Unionist

You didn't go back and read the Progressive Economics page I linked to - did you Ken? Why not have a look and let's learn from past experience, instead of just scorning babblers who don't "give the NDP a fair shake".

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Why should it be any different than the MSM here?  Good job y'all.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Go Egypt!

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:
Um, yeah, if your idea of "struggle against the capitalist class" is [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/put-partisan-games-aside-get-things-done-ndp]"a small boost to the GIS and a modest increase to the Canada Pension Plan"[/url]!

And that was with just 37 seats when our share of the vote said we should have had 56. Imagine the NDP with official opposition numbers and facing down Ignatief's  best friends forever, the phony minority Harpers. They'd run outa perogies.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

But, Fidel, why should Layton be content with struggling for "a small boost to the GIS and a modest increase to the Canada Pension Plan"??? Why not be more bold and go for more? That's why some of us roll our eyes in this debate.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

KenS wrote:

Reminder: "It is very much in this governments power to do something in your interest." Subtext- if they dont, its not because it can't be done, it is because they choose not to.

Somehow, I don't think the real problem is people's underestimating the power of the Harper government. I haven't met too may people who think it's not within Harper's power to make "a modest increase to the Canada Pension Plan", for example.

Fidel

Because Canadians want parliament to work not another election.

And because somewhere less than two-thirds of eligible voters will actually vote regardless.

And because statistics show that young Canadians from families with incomes of between $20000 to $60000 are only half as likely to vote in elections as those in families with higher incomes.

Because the legitimacy of Canadian elections has deteriorated markedly since 1994. The well was poisoned with FTA-NAFTA sellouts, GST flip-flops, Mulroney-baloney and just an overall shitty economy and not much to votefor when your party lies to you like they have over the last 25 years. Three decades three recessions. Is it any wonder why Canadians are not enthusiastic about voting? We're in a transition  phase from paternalistic autocracy to Northern Puerto Ricandom. This one has to last a while before people decide to do something about it.

But not because the NDP doesn't think Canadians deserve better. It's only because the NDP wants to hang in there and play this absurd FPTP chess game with the two fat-cat parties. We have few other options. Jack is doing really well for the leader of a party that can't rely on Bay Street support and bankers giving us the wink and a nod as to when they're ready for a stooge-off.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Nothing good can come from making a Stephen Harper-dominated parliament work. The last five years are proof of that.

Most Canadians don't want a Stephen Harper government. It makes no sense to say they don't want another election. Why would they pass up another opportunity to throw the bastards out? It's actually the NDP who doesn't want another election, because they have nothing to offer Canadians as an alternative and they know they will get trounced at the polls. Trying to spin cowardice as leadership is a joke.

If it was up to me we'd have elections every year. Politicians would live in constant fear of being thrown out on their ass.

Fidel

You can always vote for the perfect parties. I really wish the Marxist and communist parties hadn't finished in 8th and 11th places and with zero seats between them last election. Those are the kind of electoral results we can expect for growing a pair.

What we need is to get to first base and introduce a little democracy in Ottawa. As an example, "baby steps",  like Jack says about Harper doing something about the red chamber filled with people who have absolutely nothing to do with democracy.

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