Liberals look to overturn results in Berthier-Maskinongé - Continue

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Vansterdam Kid

I'm completely against people claiming to have credentials that they don't have. That being said, the attacks on this woman have been shrill in the extreme, it isn't like she was claiming to have a PhD or something. It's quite possible that she nearly completed the diploma and is only a few credits away from it. All and all I find it very "interesting" that all of her information is being released to the public without much consideration, where in just about any other case it wouldn't be.

Stockholm

Apparently its not "self-inflicted" by her personally. The party says that she only claimed to have studied in the program and that someone working on the website was at fault for the embellishment.

robbie_dee

I'm pretty sure educational institutions are allowed to verify enrollment and completion of programs of study for purposes of checking someone's resume, although they're probably limited in the amount of detail they can provide. I also imagine that there are a limited number of university employees who are allowed to disclose this information - a secretary in the Dean's office may not be allowed, but the vice-president for Student and External Affairs would have both the authority and the responsibility to do so. 

In any case this is the last thing the story needed - fresh blood in the water.  The diploma reference has now been removed from Brosseau's candidate page on the NDP website.

http://ruthellenbrosseau.ndp.ca/

Somebody really should have checked this earlier, at least when the other shit hit the fan. I feel bad for Brosseau, but this one's a self-inflicted wound.

robbie_dee

The party needs to get a handle on this shitstorm asap.

faith

I went to college some time ago but when I finished my education I had 72 credits for a 65 credit course. The reason was that we were required to take other supplementary courses ( to round out our design education) in four categories. The only problem was that the college kept changing the categories of the courses - so a student thought they had completed the humanities category only to find that the next semester the subject they had taken had now been placed in another category. I never did complete the 4 different categories although if the college administration had honoured the designations when the students had actually  taken the courses I would have qualified for my diploma and had enough courses to start another one.

I just showed my transcripts when applying for jobs in my field. To say that I had completed the design programme was not a lie because I had completed all of that programme but just not the extra courses.

observer521

That is actually a good comeback from the NDP, blame it on some web-person as a mistake.

Sadly the Cons and Libs are going to use every smear in the book on the NDP everyday for the next 4 years. They probably already have a staffed NDP smear-room, to put stuff out daily to their media outlets.

 

Life, the unive...

Okay then lets start checking into the credentials on all the other newly elected MPs from the Conservatives too.  Or how about the current sitting MPs.  If you ever wanted an object lesson on media bias this is it.  I can't help but think if this was some old, fat white guy no one would have said boo.  But every time they run a story they get to put up a picture of a young, attractive woman and I am sure the calculation is that this is good for selling papers.

Goddess I am disgusted by the media more than I ever was. 

Vansterdam Kid

Well yeah, they were obviously overtaken by events. So no doubt they need to do a better job "spinning." This isn't surprising considering how the NDP was basically irrelevant in Quebec for the longest time, but I'd rather they learn this lesson now as opposed to later.

Unionist

robbie_dee wrote:

The party needs to get a handle on this shitstorm asap.

Are you saying the party should disassociate itself from her? How else could they possibly "get a handle" on it, when (as Stockholm points out) the next predictable steps are interviews with her cats, her neighbours, her loan shark...

 

 

observer521

Bread and circuses. The Corp media will just operate to create a circus for the next 5-15 years, to distract the public.

Then Harper can slip through complex laws the public doesn't understand in the background. Its like a magician, they tell you to look at their right hand, and the left hand does the trick, or a pick-pocket.

This is a coordinated media strategy to distract the public from looking at the Cons, and their policies. No "real" paper would put this nonsense as front-page news.

Its circus propaganda, looks to be imported using the US style and US consultants.

observer521

As well, it looks like a chunk of the "social media" in terms of comments, has been taken over by extreme right-wing propaganda, in the manner of Fox.

It would be interesting to find out, how many people have been hired by the Cons, and Corp interest groups, to sit around and post comments for a hourly wage?

There seems to be many posting from the US, from interest groups like Big Oil, or social media spin groups. As with Layton, some were talking about "Layton not pressing charges" and other concepts from the US. (we don't press charges in Canada, etc)

I guess we will never know. But it does seem that the Cons and others have hired a lot of people to post endless smears and propaganda. It wouldn't take much money, for them. 50 people at $10 a hour, cutting and pasting junk all over the place, would be enough.

Either that, or Canada seems to be turning to ratshit overnight.

Lachine Scot

robbie_dee wrote:

The party should have anticipated the diploma challenge was coming and caught and corrected it before now.

I think that's a little unfair to chide the NDP for not properly understanding her educational past.  It never even occured to any of us armchair analysts.  I expect that they have much bigger things to think about these days!

robbie_dee

The NDP has admitted they were the ones who incorrectly attributed a diploma to Brosseau when all she said was that she had attended the college. They screwed the pooch and didn't catch the error even when all of the other negative attention started coming.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

This may help to put an end to it all: NDP apologizes for embellishing new MP's resumé

Vansterdam Kid

Vansterdam Kid wrote:

It's quite possible that she nearly completed the diploma and is only a few credits away from it.

 

Quote:

A spokeswoman for the NDP says Brosseau told them she studied at the community college in Kingston, Ont., but never said she had a diploma.

"She never claimed to have this diploma, as she was two credits short of completion when she had to move back to Ottawa to be close to her family," Kathleen Monk wrote in an email.

"When her bio was posted on our website, a party staffer inadvertently changed the wording. We apologize for posting this information in error and regret any inconvenience this has caused Ms. Brosseau."

Exactly.

The party defiantly needs to beef up the communications department.

 

observer521

This election and all this crud, reminds one of what Chomsky wrote about many years ago in the US. How they deliberately make the political game so ugly, dirty, vile and revolting, that most decent people just tune it out.

That means less involvement from the public.

As well, almost no one wants to run for office, so the biggies can appoint whoever they want to run.

It also breeds cynicism and apathy in the public, which is good for the real political masters as well. That system has now taken over control of our country.

I still believe there can be a backlash, and I hope that Layton can come out and be "positive" as he did during his campaign. Maybe that will help a bit?

But making the entire system a ridiculous screaming match and circus certainly works to breed voter cynicsm and apathy.

 

janfromthebruce

This may be a clue in how the "hounds" want to paint the NDP - Or were they looking for opportunistic, unstable, young, dishonest and inexperienced?

It was posted in the reply on CBC, and I found it interesting with the insertion of "unstable"!

tHIS IS THE MEME THEY WANT TO PLANT IN THE MINDS OF CANADIANS!

writer writer's picture

On the other hand, this was another comment on the CBC site:

Quote:

For crying out loud, just leave the lady alone and quit trying to make something out of nothing, even if they were to have another election in the riding does anyone really think that someone else would win, and even if they did what would it do besides cost canadians more money....get a life.

and I didn't even vote NDP.

I'm still not convinced this stalker-like obsession won't rebound on them. Have we heard much from the electorate who voted for her? Many are coping with a massive flood, others are seeing neighbouring communities cope with the disaster. Meanwhile, the ROC, other parties and media seem more interested in paying attention to the minutiae of Ms. Brosseau's life.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the locals start speaking out regarding their disgust with this distraction. It's so ridiculously offensive.

Stockholm

Vansterdam Kid wrote:

Well yeah, they were obviously overtaken by events. So no doubt they need to do a better job "spinning." This isn't surprising considering how the NDP was basically irrelevant in Quebec for the longest time, but I'd rather they learn this lesson now as opposed to later.

Its also good that this stuff is coming out AFTER the election and not before. If the NDP had started surging a week or two earlier - the scorched earth attacks would have been happened before election day and might have had an impact on support. Now, for all the nonsense we can always remind ourselves that the next election is in October of 2015!

Ciabatta2

robbie_dee wrote:

The party should have anticipated the diploma challenge was coming and caught and corrected it before now. I have no idea what other skeletons there could possibly be but I sure hope the party does or is trying to find out. For example we haven't heard from the father of her children yet but since the two are no longer together that is the next logical place I would go for "dirt" (If I were a slimy Liberal or journalist that is). I agree that Brosseau's getting quite harshly treated right now (bordering on abusive and certainly reflecting a double standard compared to other male candidates from other parties) but it doesn't appear to be letting up. I don't know how the party "changes the channel" on this but they've got to figure something out.

Exactly.  Is this focus on her completely disgusting?  Absolutely.  As someone else said, if this was some balding white guy from anywhere else would anyone have cared?  Absolutely not.

But do average voters understand that?  Do they get the biases at play here?  Do they read these headlines with the same critical analysis that goes on here?  Absolutely not and this is not reflecting well for her or the NDP, no matter how ridiculously unfair this is.  This whole thing has spiralled into a mess up that's definitely going to feature in how the NDP are framed by the Conservatives, not to mention the human toll of piling on even more pressure on this new MP.

Write-in pilon candidate takes vacation during campaign, doesn't campaign, doesn't speak the language, never been to the riding and the party hides her away once she wins, and now this.  Are there other MPs worth similar or more scrutiny?  Absolutely.  Do other parties run no-hoper write-ins too?  Absolutely.  But just like your parents used to say, "just because someone else does it doesn't mean it is ok for you to."  The run up to this election featured ads that pretty much destroyed Ignatieff (not that he really needed the help, mind you) - the next election's lead-up ads will be against Layton and the NDP.  NDP front office needs to figure that out - fast.

observer521

That is exactly the meme they want.

Harper said NDP-Lib coalition = unstable.

They have picked this, as another smear to try and poison the perception of the "NDP" for next time, to try and make the unwashed masses think its only a bunch of kids, no experience to govern, etc.

You can see dozens screaming about that in every social media comment site, as well as the constant headlines.

If they can drive the NDP down a bit, and the Libs up a bit, Harper keeps winning.

They are putting this non-story top of the "news" over floods, AlQaeda threats, etc. Not one story about Harper or his policies, like the Crime superbill coming.

So yes, this is a magnified coordinated attack on the NDP to try and make them seem unable to govern, ever. Create a circus. Its the Us model, where they try to find a scandal of some sort, and that just keep the public away from looking at what is really going on.

You have to feel sorry for these folks, there are probably already private detectives building dossiers on them, to be used later. Same as the smear tried by SunTV on Layton, by the 'retired cop' using illegal info through a loophole, covered up by the OPP, who Fantino used to run.

Its a nightmare. Who could withstand that level of scrutiny? Almost no one.

thorin_bane

She was 2 credits short and had to move to ottawa for a job...well that is clearly she might as well have never went at all. I mean 2 WHOLE credits. This is fucking disgusting. You got some asshoel in lethbridge that won't show up and says he doesn't need to, has a diploma from Utah on american history, but this is a great candidate that isn't being scrutinized. I agree the cons have hired posters. That or some liberals posters are so pissed about belonging to a shitty party they are doing teh traditional one party that looks like two gang up.

robbie_dee

Unionist wrote:

Are you saying the party should disassociate itself from her? How else could they possibly "get a handle" on it, when (as Stockholm points out) the next predictable steps are interviews with her cats, her neighbours, her loan shark...

The party should have anticipated the diploma challenge was coming and caught and corrected it before now. I have no idea what other skeletons there could possibly be but I sure hope the party does or is trying to find out. For example we haven't heard from the father of her children yet but since the two are no longer together that is the next logical place I would go for "dirt" (If I were a slimy Liberal or journalist that is). I agree that Brosseau's getting quite harshly treated right now (bordering on abusive and certainly reflecting a double standard compared to other male candidates from other parties) but it doesn't appear to be letting up. I don't know how the party "changes the channel" on this but they've got to figure something out.

Lachine Scot

robbie_dee wrote:

The NDP has admitted they were the ones who incorrectly attributed a diploma to Brosseau when all she said was that she had attended the college. They screwed the pooch and didn't catch the error even when all of the other negative attention started coming.

In principle, they should try to catch all errors.  But no one but the college itself even thought of this during a week of being in the national spotlight.  Tell me, aside from Brosseau herself and maybe the person who changed it, who in the NDP could possibly have any inkling that something was amiss?   Hindsight is 20-20, as the cliché goes...

robbie_dee

I wonder if the college would let Brosseau count her intensive french lessons towards those last two credits? Wink

observer521

I am convinced that most, not all, of the most vile online attacks are hired shills.

After all, most conservative business people are not going to sit around attacking some people for this or that.

But to go after someone, day after day, with such vile attacks about "lies, corrupt" is really just organized destruction.

Its probably the online hired army of paid shills and smear artists, still on contract from the election. You see the same "frame" from the Globe and Mail and Nat Post, and the other papers have to print the story, or be called biased.

But no question, its a large framed organized smear, to try and lock-in a negative perception of the NDP in the publics minds, based on ridicule.

gyor

Not only do I agree that the constant attacks on Ruth Ellen will back fire, mostly because it is about stuff no one cares about and that most people are sick of hearing about it, but that it is drawing all the venom from the NDPs critics, leaving little left over for any other NDP MP. She is kind of acting like airplane straff, drawing all enemy fire to herself so that no one else gets hit. Already she has stolen the attention away Mulcair's gaffe. The best part is it probably will not impact her career negitively at all as most of the attacks are pathetic and will gain her sympathy. Not that the NDP would use her this way on purpose it just an unexpected side effect of the NDP surge. It like how Naomi Klien said that the obsessive hatred of Bush made the left dumber. Obsessive hatred of Ruth Ellen is making her foes dumber.

Oh btw her foes are foolish for keeping on going on about the nominatiin papers. No one gives a shit about Nomination papers! They are trying to turn a buracratic issue into a democractic issue, but It still seems to be a buracractic issue and one the liberals are hypocritical about at that. You'd think they would have learned the price of spiteful attacks during the election. Now that they have opened pandora's box what is to stop the NDP from looking through everyones elses nomination papers and giving them a taste of thier own medicine. No one would blame the NDP for fighting back. Add this to the Rae/Alpps fight and the liberals appear to be self destructing.

JeffWells

I'm damn proud of the NDP's support for Ms Brosseau.

I can think of many other parties where the calculus would be all about cutting losses (which often damages yourself in the process). It reflects well on them that, in the midst of a feeding frenzy, they don't throw the weakest member to the sharks.

Unionist

[url=http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-canadienne/... elected in Alberta despite his refusal to campaign[/url]

Quote:
According to an NDP strategist, who preferred to remain anonymous, the case of Jim Hillyer isn't different from that of Mme Brosseau, 27-year-old single mother, but the national media aren't talking about it. "There's a double standard here. No one is talking about Jim Hillyer."

 

He also pointed out that Mme Brosseau, who speaks French adequately, will learn the basics of her role the same as all other newly elected MPs. "You have to put it in perspective. The future of Canada doesn't rest on the shoulders of Ruth Ellen Brosseau, after all!" he said.

 

He recalled, not without some humour, that the ex-Conservative prime minister John A. Macdonald, elected in Victoria on Sept. 17, 1878, never set foot there for some eight years - in summer of 1886.

"Mme Brosseau plans to visit her riding within the coming days", he concluded.

ETA: Should have mentioned, the above is from La Presse, and it's my translation.

 

writer writer's picture

Have we *ever" had a male MP described as "married father of 2" or "divorced father of 8" or "who fathered a child out of wedlock" when his parental status has absolutely *nothing* to do with a story?

Stupid sexism: Make. It. Stop. My. Brain. Hurts.

observer521

the conservative Globe and Mail ran the Jim Hillyer story...once...below the NDP attacks. So they could claim they ran it.

But obviously, someone in the dirty-tricks campaign, will just keep running the NDP story. They probably have the next week planned out, of what to release each day.

It makes you think, these smears and jeers don't work on those who have a thoughtful position on a party. There are even some conservatives who are saying these attacks are now just beyond stupid.

But I think these attacks are targeted at the disinterested voter, who just glances at a headline, and almost randomly picks who they vote for. Its a few %, and they can sway that.

But this smear after smear, seems like a longer term strategy, just to try and "frame" the NDP as a circus in the disinterested voters mind. It works in the USA.

Any sane person sees she just put her name in, and got elected due to Jack's surge in the polls. I think she will win in the end, as the average person is not an rabid neo-con smear-artist.

Notice how the Con party has stayed out of it publically. Dirty tricks have to be done through proxies.

But this entire thing was framed from Day 2 after the election in the corp media. Attack the NDP like a circus, ignore Harper.

SRB

observer521 wrote:

But this entire thing was framed from Day 2 after the election in the corp media. Attack the NDP like a circus, ignore Harper.

I agree.  The point is to use Ms. Brosseau to discredit the whole NDP, both as Opposition or as government-in-waiting.  Our good MPs will get no coverage, and down the road, there will be subtle and not so subtle reminders that there was something shady going on with Ms. Brosseau, and that the NDP doesn't check out its candidates properly, that it's anti-democratic, and that it therefore isn't ready for prime time.

If they can actually destroy her, they will (ie., overturn her result or cause her to resign), because it would be a blow against the NDP.  If not, they will continue to use her as a stick to beat the party with.  If people get tired of this, or it seems not to be working any more, they will find other targets among the new MPs. In this and other ways, I expect that the coverage of the NDP in the MSM will be relentlessly negative over the next four years.

thorin_bane

It also sets the frame of "all politicians are the same" which conservative voters don't really care about as long as their self serving position is, or at least given mouth srvice to. Should be interesting to see what Harper does with his majority. Long gun could be abolished on day 1 but what could he offer those people in 4 years? Hmmm just like liberals and day care, the cons have a lot of wedge issues that will bite them on the ass. They have no reason not to. They could claim no money, but that kind of goes againt the fiscal managers mantra.

observer521

Its the same as the Fox news stuff. they feign "outrage" over everything. SunTV is doing the same thing.

Its an emotional tactic, to try and randomly enrage the red-meat crowd, who just want to direct their anger somewhere.

Too bad she can't just appear and humanize herself, by being herself?

 

writer writer's picture

The two most recent comments following the CBC "resume" story:

Quote:

The way people are giving her "the third degree", she'll have her doctorate in no time.

---

For the people, by the people, OF THE PEOPLE!

sorry if average canadian crashed your party of career elites but get over yourselves, this is democracy so the career con that lost in that riding will have to find another job and maybe become an average nameless canadian like the rest of us.

It's also a much more interesting read if you sort by ratings. A real mix of opinion.

observer521

I can fricken guarantee most of these online postings are hired conbots.

You can see them use words like "staffer", and trying to twist this, and the Layton Que language story, into talking about the NDP constitution, election promises, etc.

They must get a list of 10 Talking Points, and the just attack away.

Maybe someday some university grad will do a study of those types of posting, and compare the language, sentences, phrasings.

Social media hired political propaganda smear campaigns, the new frontier.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Does anyone have a sense for when the National NDP office will start to aggrsively respond to this. This is obviously a reflection of some kind of stategy. I wish I knew what they were thinking. Ms Brousseau should get out to that riding by the weekend to find a place to live and start raising her profile.

I am absoluetely convined that she will be fine in the long run, but this short term stuff is hard to watch. No panic. But still, I'd like a little bit of really hard pushback.

faith

This is the perfect timing to start a social media counter attack of our own. A little youtube cartoon video with a horrible Conservative candidate - there must be a few around :) and an old fart cartoon character from the mainstream media, making wild accusations against a young person just trying to figure things out. I would make it humourous and ultimately the young person would expose the bias in the opinions. Perhaps base it on Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz when she pulls back the curtain and finds just a little old man.

The NDp should use those young candidates and their social media savy to lead the way against this kind of smear - the best defense is an offence.

writer writer's picture

Arthur Cramer, why respond? It would just fuel the frenzy. They are getting a better sense of the candidate, and figuring out the best way to support her and the big job she now has. Let them focus on the MP and her riding. That way, it will just naturally blow up in the faces of the cretins who are revealing themselves for what they are.

A clear sense that the party won't be distracted by this idiocy and is focused instead on the work to be done is a good response. Let's not get too worked up ourselves.

Stand strong.

Here's a GREAT piece in Maclean's (!!!): The House: The meaning of Ruth Ellen Brosseau

Quote:

Whether that powerlessness is real or imagined—whether a product of apathy, cynicism or careful study—the MP has become a very small figure in our democracy. You could expend thousands of words sorting out the public, press and parliamentary pressures that have so reduced the idea of the MP, but whatever the cause, it seems the reality is made fairly unavoidable by the election of Ruth Ellen Brosseau. Whatever balance the ballot is supposed to compel, the choice is fairly simple now: find the party you prefer and put an X beside whatever name happens to be there.

All of which is simply to suggest that laughing and fuming in Ms. Brosseau’s direction is perhaps a bit unjust when there’s an entire national political system to laugh and fume at.

janfromthebruce

Just like Rob Ford

Rob Ford dropped out of Carleton University before he graduated, some staffer wrote he had a degree on the website, but that was all fine and dandy, he got elected and everyone is pleased with his performance. What's good enough for Ford Nation is good enough for the NDP and Brosseau.

writer writer's picture

Hah! This comment was just posted on the Facebook page supporting the new MPs:

Quote:

I am getting really angry at the way this young woman is beeing bullied by having her every move and word scrutinized under a microscope. I wonder what would happen if all the waiters and waitresses in this country put their customers (media types, politicos, 'fixers', etc.) under that kind of scrutiny and started leaking these things on the internet? A former waitress of 15 years, myself, I think they'd have lots to scrutinize. Wink wink!

janfromthebruce

that is excellent writter!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

@writer:

I know you are right, and this is what I think they were doing. Its just tough to watch and not be able to help much.

I hate the Libs so much, and the MSM are such a bunch of goons! Its completely disgusting!

nicky

Can anyone tell us how Ms Brosseau came to be nominated in the first place?

Life, the unive...

I am sure it went something like this

"Hey Ruth Ellen we have a problem in a riding in Quebec.  We can't find a candidate.  Don't suppose you would mind putting your name on a ballot."

"I don't know I have this job here and a vacation already paid for and my kids to look after I can't really be campaigning so far from home."

"Oh don't worry no one will notice - but we need to have a name on the ballot, just like the Conservatives do in Toronto and the Liberals in Alberta.  We just need someone to put their name on the ballot so that folks there can have an alternative to the Bloc it isn't a big deal - we'll do all the campaign work."

"Okay, I guess I'll do it if it will help out the party.  It isn't like I would have a chance of winning or anything anyway."

Or something to that effect.

 

What happened in this riding is not all that unusual in Canadian political history- similar things have happened many times before.  But now the media can plaster this picture of this attractive young woman all over their sites to get interest and sell papers and attack the NDP at the same time.  It is a great two'fer.  The fact that they are ignoring all kinds of similar occurences, past and present, we are supposed to pretend we don't notice.

ReeferMadness

So, could the NDP really not find a local candidate in this riding?  After all, they got well over 5,000 votes in 2008.  If they had a local candidate, the most embarrassing features of this case - that the candidate didn't campaign, couldn't campaign and had not intention of campaigning - wouldn't be in play. 

Even the Greens, who scored just 1,700 votes in 2008, managed to dig up a local candidate with a French website.

It doesn't really seem logical.

Also, I've noticed claims that the other parties do the same but has anyone come up with an example where another party ran a candidate that didn't campaign at all?  Even candidates that didn't win?

In the Lethbridge example, the Candidate did avoid the media (and in some cases the voters) but he was in the riding and he was shown meeting with people.  He was also on a radio show.  So he did run a campaign, however minimal.

 

ReeferMadness

Stockholm wrote:

Apparently its not "self-inflicted" by her personally. The party says that she only claimed to have studied in the program and that someone working on the website was at fault for the embellishment.

That may be true but why wouldn't she have checked it?  If I were to allow some other party to post information about me, I'd certainly want to verify what they put there.

Basement Dweller

Guy Andre, who lost but still gets the sweet MP pension, didn't have to get involved in this pointless crap. What the hell is he thinking? Just a sore loser, I guess.

As previously mentioned, the next election is 2015. Brousseau said she is getting thicker skin, and that will serve her well in the longrun. She will do fine.

Stockholm

In case anyone gets a bit down about this ridiculous saga - cher up and watch this wonderful video of all the Quebec NDP candidates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mh77h7MVpc

knownothing knownothing's picture

Mark Kelley just did this lame ass segment on his show Connect on how the NDP is muzzling this candidate. The media has been hammering the new Mp's because they will say something stupid and now he is on them for trying to control their message. He said she won't take questions from anyone in her riding. That is false. I believe she already did one interview with a paper. I think he is a bitter Liberal like the rest of the CBC.

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