Liberals look to overturn results in Berthier-Maskinongé - Continue

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RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Thanks Stockholm! That video was hokey but charming. I love Quebec!

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Don't worry Arthur, apparently, reefer's just discovered that people get elected by putting a name on the ballot. Never heard much scrutiny from him before. Chalk it up to sour grapes.

Keep digging a bigger hole, classist twits.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

@ReeferMadness:

I suspect she didn't check it because she hasn't got enough leadersip experience to know to ask that kind of question. I think a lot of us would have thought of this, but I am guessing she has never had any really important positions of leadership and is kind of flying on "auto-pilot", trusting the party apparatus to look after things. She is in her passive stage; hopefully she will start feeling comfortable enough to make her own decisions.

I heard the recorded message she and Jack Layton made on CBC. Her accent was not bad, so I am inclined to feel optimistic about her French language skills and ability to communicate in the native language of the Quebecois (I hope it is ok to use that term). After that 30 second bit on the NDP, there was about 4 minutes on the Libs. Are the Libs the Offical Opposition now?

Still, I wish they would start getting her out there. She should go to the riding ASAP and talk to people about the flooding. It is important for her to be there now. Also, I really need to stop obsessing about this. I just want the NDP to do well, and to hit the ground running. I am convinced that we as a Party at the level of people running things, are a bit too cautious. I believe that was at least a bit of a factor in what happened in Winnipeg North. But that is another story for a different thread. I tend to want to be agressive, being ex-military; I an not a "Shrinking Violet", lol!

janfromthebruce

I loved the video - they are going to shake up the House!

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Thanks for 'splaining it LTUE!

Life, the unive...

ReeferMadness wrote:

So, could the NDP really not find a local candidate in this riding?  After all, they got well over 5,000 votes in 2008.  If they had a local candidate, the most embarrassing features of this case - that the candidate didn't campaign, couldn't campaign and had not intention of campaigning - wouldn't be in play. 

Even the Greens, who scored just 1,700 votes in 2008, managed to dig up a local candidate with a French website.

It doesn't really seem logical.

Also, I've noticed claims that the other parties do the same but has anyone come up with an example where another party ran a candidate that didn't campaign at all?  Even candidates that didn't win?

In the Lethbridge example, the Candidate did avoid the media (and in some cases the voters) but he was in the riding and he was shown meeting with people.  He was also on a radio show.  So he did run a campaign, however minimal.

 

Oh horseshit.  You just seem to make things up as you go along.  I am getting very tired of your constant attacks full of nothing but inuendo and false claims of knowledge.

There are lots and lots of candidates who are merely a paper candidate.  Your own Green party is full of them.  I know, because I use to recruit them as we worked to build the party.   There is absolutely nothing unusual about this situation, except a repudiation of the old-line Quebec parties that resulted in a sweep.   There are plenty of non-incumbent candidates who have to work and do little to no campaigning.  They are in ridings were usually there seems like there was no chance at victory, so no one wants to be the candidate.  Despite what you claim, finding people to run in those ridings is often very hard.  It is a pretty crappy, no thanks job that most people, no matter how committed to their party they might be, just don't want to put themselves through. If people had know what was about to happen in Quebec there probably would have been a contested nomination.  But they didn't and they needed someone to put their name on a ballot.  Pretty common for all parties in one region, or sub-region or another

In my riding there was a 22 year old student representing the Greens.  The Greens were scrambling to get a candidate.  If he hadn't have come forward - a week into the election- you can bet your behind the Greens would have appointed someone - and probably at that point someone from outside the riding.   I know a former Green candidate from this riding who in a later election 'ran' in a northern Ontario riding- even though he was living in Winipeg at the time.  (Guess what he did no campaigning and was just a name on the ballot)  Had there been a Green wave sweep through the province of Ontario in either elections both of them could have been elected.  But because they are not women, I expect none of this pile on would have happened.

There is really nothing to see in this situation except some petty journalists who are jealous that this woman broke all of their so-called conventions and represents for them their own failings in how they got this election so totally and completely wrong, wrong, wrong.  Most political journalists I have ever met were people who wanted to be politicians but just didn't have the royal jelly to be successful at it.  These stories are nothing more than the seething envy of a the petty jealous.  

Stockholm

I think a lot of journalists are just envious that some ordinary people who were willing to put their names on the ballot for the NDP are now going to earn (at least for the next four years) about double what most reporters make at the peak of their careers.

ReeferMadness

Arthur Cramer wrote:

@ReeferMadness:

I suspect she didn't check it because she hasn't got enough leadersip experience to know to ask that kind of question. I think a lot of us would have thought of this, but I am guessing she has never had any really important positions of leadership and is kind of flying on "auto-pilot", trusting the party apparatus to look after things. She is in her passive stage; hopefully she will start feeling comfortable enough to make her own decisions.

Aw, c'mon, Arthur. It doesn't take leadership experience to check a website.  Even if she has no expectation of winning, it must have been exciting to have her name on the ballot.  But she doesn't even look at the website?

Quote:

I heard the recorded message she and Jack Layton made on CBC. Her accent was not bad, so I am inclined to feel optimistic about her French language skills and ability to communicate in the native language of the Quebecois (I hope it is ok to use that term). After that 30 second bit on the NDP, there was about 4 minutes on the Libs. Are the Libs the Offical Opposition now?

Still, I wish they would start getting her out there. She should go to the riding ASAP and talk to people about the flooding. It is important for her to be there now. Also, I really need to stop obsessing about this. I just want the NDP to do well, and to hit the ground running. I am convinced that we as a Party at the level of people running things, are a bit too cautious. I believe that was at least a bit of a factor in what happened in Winnipeg North. But that is another story for a different thread. I tend to want to be agressive, being ex-military; I an not a "Shrinking Violet", lol!

sure.  Maybe she does great.

ReeferMadness

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

ReeferMadness wrote:

So, could the NDP really not find a local candidate in this riding?  After all, they got well over 5,000 votes in 2008.  If they had a local candidate, the most embarrassing features of this case - that the candidate didn't campaign, couldn't campaign and had not intention of campaigning - wouldn't be in play. 

Even the Greens, who scored just 1,700 votes in 2008, managed to dig up a local candidate with a French website.

It doesn't really seem logical.

Also, I've noticed claims that the other parties do the same but has anyone come up with an example where another party ran a candidate that didn't campaign at all?  Even candidates that didn't win?

In the Lethbridge example, the Candidate did avoid the media (and in some cases the voters) but he was in the riding and he was shown meeting with people.  He was also on a radio show.  So he did run a campaign, however minimal.

 

Oh horseshit.  You just seem to make things up as you go along.  I am getting very tired of your constant attacks full of nothing but inuendo and false claims of knowledge.

There are lots and lots of candidates who are merely a paper candidate.  Your own Green party is full of them.  I know, because I use to recruit them as we worked to build the party.   There is absolutely nothing unusual about this situation, except a repudiation of the old-line Quebec parties that resulted in a sweep.   There are plenty of non-incumbent candidates who have to work and do little to no campaigning.  They are in ridings were usually there seems like there was no chance at victory, so no one wants to be the candidate.  Despite what you claim, finding people to run in those ridings is often very hard.  It is a pretty crappy, no thanks job that most people, no matter how committed to their party they might be, just don't want to put themselves through. If people had know what was about to happen in Quebec there probably would have been a contested nomination.  But they didn't and they needed someone to put their name on a ballot.  Pretty common for all parties in one region, or sub-region or another

In my riding there was a 22 year old student representing the Greens.  The Greens were scrambling to get a candidate.  If he hadn't have come forward - a week into the election- you can bet your behind the Greens would have appointed someone - and probably at that point someone from outside the riding.   I know a former Green candidate from this riding who in a later election 'ran' in a northern Ontario riding- even though he was living in Winipeg at the time.  (Guess what he did no campaigning and was just a name on the ballot)  Had there been a Green wave sweep through the province of Ontario in either elections both of them could have been elected.  But because they are not women, I expect none of this pile on would have happened.

There is really nothing to see in this situation except some petty journalists who are jealous that this woman broke all of their so-called conventions and represents for them their own failings in how they got this election so totally and completely wrong, wrong, wrong.  Most political journalists I have ever met were people who wanted to be politicians but just didn't have the royal jelly to be successful at it.  These stories are nothing more than the seething envy of a the petty jealous.  

False claims of knowledge?  Would you care to back that up?? Or is that in itself a "false claim of knowledge".

I've spoken from my personal observations on the Green Party candidates.  The Green candidate's website is pretty easy to find. The vote counts aren't too hard to find.  Where are the false claims of knowledge?

Meanwhile, you claim all the parties do this but offer nothing in the way of links.  Is that a "false claim of knowledge"?  Or is it OK because you're just inherently believeable?

What strikes me about this whole thing is how easily all of you slip into the victimization dialogue.  Did the mainstream media make some NDP HQ genius decide to run a candidate who didn't even have the language skills to campaign?  Did they prevent the candidate from ever even seeing the riding?  Were they somehow complicit in overstating the candidate's educational qualifications?  No, no and no.  Yet, somehow it's got nothing to do with the party, nothing to do with the candidate, nothing to do with the fucked up political system.  It's all a big conspiracy to make your candidate look bad.  Maybe your party should stop making it so easy.

Malcolm Malcolm's picture

To a very great extent, the visceral bullying of Ruth Ellen Brosseau is driven by the inchoate rage of a discredited political eleite (including their journalistic fart-catchers) that hoi polloi have been allowed to sully the lofty air of Parliament Hill by the pedestrian ordinariness. 

Why Reefer Madness shares this inchoate rage isn't entirely clear, but his protestations are ringing increasingly hollow as he's the only person around here still attacking her for her lack of royal jelly.

Doug Woodard

Quite apart from questions of legislation and national policy, I have to think that anyone who can manage a bar is probably well equipped for daily life in the House of Commons; especially a House that is more than half Conservative.

The only problem I can see Ms. Brosseau having is possibly not being really interested in the kind of work that being an MP involves, though we have no evidence one way or the other as yet. But we seem to have had a good many MPs over the years who were content just to follow orders and draw their pay. She can't be worse than them.

Ms. Brosseau got elected, and her critics did not. Vox populi, vox dei. The only question is whether she can get re-elected, and that's up to her constituents, not the carpers. Move on, folks, and worry about something that makes sense.

 

Ciabatta2

Part of the problem is that people trust parties to put up candidates of a certain level of competency.  Nothing has indicated that she isn't competent, but this no French, no campaign, vacation-when-she-should-be-working, wrong credentials, hiding her from the media is not a good start.  You can just see how the Conservatives are going to batter the NDP with this during the next election - if Dion "wasn't up to the job"...?...  A coworker said to me yesterday - "Well, at least when you elect Liberals you get a potential pro.  Where does the NDP find these poeple?"  Yikes...  People involved in politics get why this happens; people in the NDP get why this focus on her is appallingly unfair; most everydayers don't.  And those are the potential voters the NDP needs to get onside next election.

Doug Woodard wrote:

The only problem I can see Ms. Brosseau having is possibly not being really interested in the kind of work that being an MP involves, though we have no evidence one way or the other as yet.

That might end up being a big issue for some of the new MPs.  Campaigns are invigorating.  Getting berated because you can't deal with someone's zoning issue because they don't get that you're federal is not.  The life of an MP is largely gruelling and demoralizing and thankless.  How many of these people really want to devote their life to this job?  Particularly the young ones - who wants to forgo partners, kids, backpacking wherever (or whatever else young people these days do)...?

(Waaaaay) back when I was in school, a former politician visited our third year politics class and took questions.  One guy asked him "when is the best time to enter politics?"  His answer?  "After your divorce."

It's quite the job to be your first job.

Basement Dweller

Ciabatta2 wrote:

The life of an MP is largely gruelling and demoralizing and thankless.  How many of these people really want to devote their life to this job?  Particularly the young ones - who wants to forgo partners, kids, backpacking wherever (or whatever else young people these days do)...

I'd take that thankless MP paycheque to the bank, crying all the way. If i get defeated, I'd get a thankless severance package. If successful, a very thankless pension. Oh what a grueling and demoralizing life it would be.

No I'd rather be washing dishes or pulling weeds or cleaning up construction sites. But wait a second, that's what I did in my youth. I had it really good, I guess. I'm sure glad I didn't get elected to Parliament and miss out on all that.Tongue out

 

Basement Dweller

Poor guy got elected to Parliament at the age of 20 and look what happened to him Cry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude-Andr%C3%A9_Lachance

remind remind's picture

Malcolm wrote:
To a very great extent, the visceral bullying of Ruth Ellen Brosseau is driven by the inchoate rage of a discredited political eleite (including their journalistic fart-catchers) that hoi polloi have been allowed to sully the lofty air of Parliament Hill by the pedestrian ordinariness. 

Just excellent Malcolm.... :D

 

ETA: and one can only pray that the CONs and the LIberals/Bloc continue to carry on about her some more, the public backlash is getting huge.

writer writer's picture

Sharon Fraser admits to the sin of voting for a party: Voting for the faceless stranger

David Hackett

Ciabatta2 wrote:

People involved in politics get why this happens; people in the NDP get why this focus on her is appallingly unfair; most everydayers don't.  And those are the potential voters the NDP needs to get onside next election.

 

This is exactly the problem right now.  I've had more than a few people who came over to the Orange side during the campaign who are now angry about this, either in conversations or in public forums (like Facebook).  Yes it's unfair, and yes i hope it blows over, but it's hurting us before we've even sat in the House, and I suspect hurting us quite badly.  The NDP should be in a honeymoon phase and pushing hard right now.  Instead we're playing defense and are unable to change the channel on this.

writer writer's picture

Anyone who thought the other parties and the mainstream media would grant a honeymoon to the NDP should get their feet back on the ground, fast.

I don't see the NDP playing defence. It seems to me that the party isn't playing. Which makes sense, as this is a stacked game it will lose. Instead, the NDP is working on an alternative, positive narrative. It is training its overwhelmingly huge crop of new MPs. It is hiring hundreds of new staff. It is developing strategy as the Official Opposition to a Conservative majority. This is where its energy should be placed.

Trying to put out one fire will only guarantee that another one will be set. It will pull the party away from what it needs to do right now. It will create a dynamic and momentum that would be hard to shut down later.

Meanwhile, we can respond to the concerns of our friends, family and familiars with humour and humanity. *Show* what the party is all about through your own interactions. Simply spell out the way the media is misrepresenting this situation and others. Provide alternative perspectives.

Honestly, some deep breathing exercises really help.

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I agree with writer. Everone should just calm down. Relax guys; WE ARE THE OFFICAL OPPOSITION NOW!  ENJOY IT!

Stockholm

I have theory that there is another reason for the media obsession with Ruth-Ellen. They all want to write a story about the new NDP Quebec caucus being full of wingnuts etc...and you can be sure that vast numbers of journalists and would be journalists have been combing through the backgrounds of all 59 NDP MPs from Quebec. I think that the reason we keep hearing about Ruth Ellen is that the other 58 MPs are of such unassailably good character and quality and have such unblemished records that they just can't find any dirt on anyone else!

Ghislaine

Doug Woodard wrote:

Ms. Brosseau got elected, and her critics did not. Vox populi, vox dei. The only question is whether she can get re-elected, and that's up to her constituents, not the carpers.  

This should be repeated, repeated, repeated. It is not like she won by a handful of vote. She won OVERWHELMINGLY. yes, it was unexpected, but the majority of people in her riding wanted an NDP MP and that is what they have. Perhaps the media shoud focus on not writing off every party except the big two when covering the election in 2015.

faith

Malcom- great post

observer521

A State of Emergency in Manitoba with the flood, seems to be enough to stop throwing pebbles at the NDP for a day. What a corrupt media!

SRB

Apparently, according to the CBC ticker, Ms. Brosseau went to her riding for the first time today.  So her name remains in the media even during flood coverage.

Stockholm

Apparently she visited a museum in the riding devoted to some patron saint of single mothers, met with a local mayor and insisted on speaking only French even when asked questions in English - sounds good to me.

janfromthebruce

Elusive NDP MP finally visits her Quebec riding

funny the local said she spoke French well although it was reiterated by the journalist those same bylines of speaks no or little French. lol

writer writer's picture

From the story:

 "Her French is quite good. I think she understands more than she can speak... She's a very nice person, very easy to talk to." — museum director Michelle Picard

"I wish all politicians could understand more than they can speak." — SKite, user comment

Le T Le T's picture

What's with this username and password request that i get when i open this thread?

writer writer's picture

I'm getting it too. Very weird.

Quote:
Authentication Required - A username and password are being requested by http://ruthellenbrosseau.ndp.ca. The site says: "Bonjour"

MegB

Okay, this is weird.  I'm closing the thread and reporting to tech support. 

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