Local riding on Green leader's radar: Elizabeth May might run in Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound

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Ken Burch

Why has Elizabeth May STILL not given up?  the last election clearly showed she's unelectable.  Why doesn't she step down and let her party elect a leader who might actually be effective in increasing the party's support?

 

Policywonk

Tommy_Paine wrote:

The roads into these things are better constructed than many of our 'no winter maintanence' sideroads around here.

When London was tossing around the idea of twinning the water pipeline from Grand Bend, farmers pointed out that the land disturbed for the first trench hasn't returned to normal for farming, and that's some 40 years after the line was built.   Looking at the access roads that run to some of the wind turbines between Copenhagen and Port Burwell, you can see they are hard packed, and won't even grow weeds.  So, those access roads have to be taken into account when we look at acerage taken out of production for the turbines.

Which all goes to show how nothing is perfect.  There's no free lunch in physics. 

Just in politics.

And that's what May and the Greens don't want to address, any more than the other political parties want to.

That's a good point. The access roads for construction of comtemporary projects are actually 12, not 5 metres wide to handle the rather large components of megawatt wind turbine installations and thus 1200 rather than 500 square metres per 100 metre length. A no winter maintenance side road might be a couple of metres wide at most and likely not constructed to the same standards.  And while the developers might claim that they can reduce the width of the road after construction and restore the rest I expect that's easier said than done. Similarly with the area used for construction, which would be more than an acre. So OK there could be more than 3 acres footprint for a wind turbine if the access road was long enough.

janfromthebruce

thanks wrote:

ok i just have to say this.

another reason i don't link to videos or even pdf's now is i have to download more software, usually updated every other day, with a different piece of software for every different item.  and then in the middle of this process, by wireless link conks out and i have to start over. its a pain.

please can people quote the important lines or thoughts from whatever links they provide.  then i'll at least get a bit of the picture.

thanks.

Tommy, i heard you on the keep-the-source-near-use thing.  ie) windmills along the lake, which would be way better than the nuke plants along the lake.

 

Thanks, the amount of windmills needed to replace the Bruce Nuclear site works out to about (say Grand Bend to Port Elgin and look it up on a google map to see the effect) that amount of shoreline, and say 30 miles in of windmills. Sure try that - it won't happen and all those cottage owners from the city would be up in arms and petitioning. They don't give a hoot about the farmland but don't touch the "family cottage."

 

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Webgear

That is crazy talk. Those urbanities have the farmers' best interest at heart.

It is just another way to kill off the small scale farmer.

Policywonk

kylebailey260 wrote:

Firstly, my gut, which has been informed by sailing Georgian Bay throughout the summer all my life, and laughing at Torontarians with big expensive boats in their big expensive clubs.....but who come up to Lake Huron and Georgian Bay frequently because of the great sailing. Other boaters will doubtless tell you that Huron and Georgian Bay are definately windier than Ontario. The only lake considered to be more nototurious for foul weather Lake Superior- which was mentioned as a site for wind farms, but where would the wind power be fed to without large transmission losses?

Sault St. Marie? One of the largest wind farms in Canada is located just to the north. There are also ways of reducing transmission losses.

kylebailey260 wrote:

Secondly, for those who may be skeptical of silors experiences, think about geography. The prevailing wind in our latitudes is westerly. Therefore, the ideal lake effect condition (in terms of consistenly generating wind) is to have a situation where a large body of water is west of the land, so that the daytime lake effect is additive (not cancelling out as often happens in Hamilton harbour). Also, the amount of fetch is important- neither Hamilton nor Toronto has open water to the west for weather systems to pick up energy (in contrast with Lake Huron, or a place like Kingston).

There are a number of forces that create wind. They are the pressure gradient force, the coriolis force, centripetal force (resulting from a curved flow), and friction (which is less over water than over land, hence the reason that wind speeds are generally higher over water: energy is not picked up, but dissipated less). While fetch is not a factor in determining wind speed and direction, it is a major factor limiting the height of waves produced by winds. The prevailing wind direction in mid latitutes is generally westerly, but the local prevailng wind may be much different due to local effects caused by terrain and shoreline orientation. There are land breezes as well as sea breezes and both may be important at a particular site.

Bookish Agrarian

There are also ways of reducing transmission losses

Oh for heavens sake. Now you are going to say alternative energy somehow beats out both Joules and Ohms laws. I thought you were against exageration. What is it with you?

 You have also left out that wind at ground level can be significantly different than wind just a few extra meters over your head in terms of strength and sometimes even noticable difference in direction.  We understand wind very little as any competent sailor can tell you.

Wind is an important energy component.  It is not however, the panacea some want it so desperately to be.

And for the record 'no winter maitaince roads' are not thin little dirt tracks.  They are narrower than a concession road, but they do hold traffic during the summer months and can often be seen being used by farmers.  They are the width roads used to be, that is all.

 

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

Long thread, which also seems to have gone hinky. Please continue in a new one.

 

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