NDP Convention This Weekend!

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MegB
NDP Convention This Weekend!

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MegB

Your thoughts, hopes, dreams, rants?

edmundoconnor

I'm going to be asking for $1,000 for Ontario Pride activities from the federal LGBT caucus. If you see me (tall, glasses, blue and white stripy shirt, English accent), say hello! I haven't met a single babbler in person yet.

al-Qa'bong

The resolution to eliminate the word "socialism" from the Nude Em constitution made the CBC radio news today.

What a brilliant idea.  Take an idea that's carried the party to opposition status, then jettison it once the team gets close to the championship.  It's as if Claude Julien had decided to put Tukka Rask in between the pipes once the playoffs started.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

edmundoconnor wrote:

I'm going to be asking for $1,000 for Ontario Pride activities from the federal LGBT caucus. If you see me (tall, glasses, blue and white stripy shirt, English accent), say hello! I haven't met a single babbler in person yet.

Did you ask Ontario Pride to make a similar donation to the party and/or caucus? Does the NDP get exclusive rights if they donate, or at least first pick as to where they get to put their banners? I won't be there, but I am afraid I would be voting against the request if I was present.

Polunatic2

Sounds like the leadership is batting 1,000 so far. The workshops which vet resolutions for potential debate on the Convention floor have: 

  • scuttled a resolution to soften Canada's marijuana laws
  • scuttled a resolution for the NDP to support the flotilla to Gaza
  • moved forward with a resolution to scuttle the word "socialism" from the party's constitution

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/06/17/pol-ndp-friday.html

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/17/at-party-convention-some-new-democrats-push-anti-israel-line

Not sure if there are any resolutions on Libya but if there are, it would seem to fall in the category of "we can't debate this on TV". 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

From the CBC link:

"A lot of people are thinking the party needs to be more mainstream, CBC's Laurie Graham reported from the convention."

 

So, what does that mean? Mainstream conservative or liberal?

dacckon dacckon's picture

Mainsteam European socio-democratic?

 

Ed Broadbent announced an independant think-tank.

JeffWells

Polunatic2 wrote:

Sounds like the leadership is batting 1,000 so far.

Is there a Canadian party better at inspiring idealists and then cutting them off at the knees?

Conventions aren't a time for debate, clearly.

contrarianna

dacckon wrote:

Mainsteam European socio-democratic?

Ed Broadbent announced an independant think-tank.

Oooo "socio-" thats a bit Bolshi ain't it??

Mainstream Media, more like.

Polunatic2

I wonder if there'll be a lot of delegates from Quebec? I would presume that for some of the new MPs, this will be their first NDP Convention. 

Ken Burch

There's no good reason to try to be "mainstream"...especially since "mainstream" ALWAYS means "check your soul at the door".

The NDP took 103 seats by NOT being mainstream.  People who want more of the same or only a slight change will never vote NDP no matter what.

Nobody out there is saying "I hate those old parties-but I'll only vote for you if you're pretty much just like them".

By itself "electing an NDP government" isn't anything-it's only of value of the party still has core values.  taking out the word "socialism" means NOT having core values.  "Social Democracy" doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore.  Hell, the new right-wing government of Portugal is lead by...wait for it..the Social Democratic Party.

The only people that would be impressed by the removal of the "s word" are people who hate activists, ideals, and any notion of life being anything other than it is now.  And people like that would never vote NDP, no matter what.  Why doesn't Jack get that?

It's absurd to assume that everyone who isn't a left activist themselves sees left activists with contempt.  Or that everyone who isn't an "artist" or "activist" from Toronto or Vancouver is to the right of those who are.  There's a lot of people who share the NDP's dream of a world where profit doesn't drive everything who simply don't have time to be activists themselves...they're raising kids and working two, three or sometimes four jobs.  The fact that those people aren't at the protests doesn't mean they high-fived each other when the cops broke heads at the G-20.

There's simply no reason for Jack to be this bloody reductionist.

 

Uncle John

If the NDP doesnt want to be socialist maybe there is a Party which will be...

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm watching this on CPAC. Just heard that Reports - including Finance - will be presented as is, with no Q & A permitted, because that's how the Agenda was adopted. That goes against past practice according to the delegate that rose on a point of order to protest.

 

ETA: The delegates just voted to overturn the Chair's decision not to allow Q & A!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

What a contrast to the Conservative convention! No right wing ideologues and nut cases at this NDP convention, other than the observers (James Moore, for one - called the NDP on economy simply a bunch of loonies: business-haters).

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Peggy Nash is outstanding on the jobs crisis in Canada. I can't stand Brad Lavigne but he knows his stuff - using social media to attract the youth vote, for example.

Doug

Ken Burch wrote:

There's no good reason to try to be "mainstream"...especially since "mainstream" ALWAYS means "check your soul at the door".

The NDP took 103 seats by NOT being mainstream.

 

Really? I can't think of much from the last platform that was all that wildly radical. Certainly nothing in it that the Liberals felt uncomfortable stealing. To the extent policy change mattered in the election it was the NDP's willingness to become more decentralist that helped in Quebec and that's not something to which you can easily attach a "moving right" or "moving left" label.

The NDP has to be able to talk to and understand the mainstream even if it is not actually the mainstream itself or it will get nowhere.

Quote:

By itself "electing an NDP government" isn't anything-it's only of value of the party still has core values.  taking out the word "socialism" means NOT having core values.  "Social Democracy" doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore.  Hell, the new right-wing government of Portugal is lead by...wait for it..the Social Democratic Party.

 

It's not as if socialism were any more descriptive. Depending on who uses it, it can mean anything from the idea that it's good to share your cookie with a friend to full-on central planning complete with bread lines. 

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

The policy resolutions debate on HST, foreign investment, and mining strategy in particular is outstanding, and the NDP are showing a clear contrast to the Cons and Libs. Bravo!

 

ETA: the list of sell-outs by the Cons with regard to mining in Canada is astonishing, and four more years of a Harper government will be simply disastrous.

al-Qa'bong

If enough of us lefties go Green, would they shift their policies enough to be called "socialist?"

Would the Green Party then become Canada's leftwing alternative?  The NDP doesn't seem to want the title.

Fidel

Tories with composters. Remember that they had to green-up some to be as green as the NDP just a few years ago.

contrarianna

Fidel wrote:

Tories with composters. Remember that they had to green-up some to be as green as the NDP just a few years ago.

Hey, but then there wasn't the New Libracrat Party, voting en masse to bomb the shit out of Libya and make the Green look Red

Todrick of Chat...

Contrarianna, the NMP has a good reason for bombing Libya. Fidel has stated the reason over and over for the last few days, it is okay to bomb Libya because the NMP will be elected in 2015 and they will change everything.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

You all should be watching the convention on CPAC - the NDP is outstanding on domestic policy, a few hiccups notwithstanding.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

I like the idea of taking over the Greens.

Todrick of Chat...

laine lowe wrote:

I like the idea of taking over the Greens.

 

This is the problem about Canadian/western politics, it is all about gaining power, eliminating your opponents. We need more voices discussing issues and creating solutions, not less.

al-Qa'bong

The Greens must be different down east than in the west.  Here they're seen as way further to the left than the NDP.  Locally, they attract candidates that would seem too far "out there" even for babblers.  A few elections ago there was a movement here to ensure that leftists consolidated their support behind the Nude Ems, and drop the Greens, to provide a solid lefty front from one party.

 

The NDP seems to no longer need the left.

edmundoconnor

bagkitty wrote:

Did you ask Ontario Pride to make a similar donation to the party and/or caucus? Does the NDP get exclusive rights if they donate, or at least first pick as to where they get to put their banners? I won't be there, but I am afraid I would be voting against the request if I was present.

A clarification, as my wording wasn't quite clear:

I was there as Ontario NDP LGBT caucus representative to the federal NDP LGBT caucus, making a formal request for $1,000 to assist the Ontario NDP LGBT caucus in creating a terrific presence for the caucus and party at various 2011 Ontario prides, including Toronto, London, and Ottawa.

The request was referred to the newly-elected executive, who approved it.

edmundoconnor

Boom Boom wrote:

You all should be watching the convention on CPAC - the NDP is outstanding on domestic policy, a few hiccups notwithstanding.

It was great, although I wish the transit omnibus resolution should have been brought to the floor. We were trying to get it promoted in the policy panel, but there was a procedural SNAFU and our request was refused.

I was trying to get the transit resolution discussed by omnibusing resolutions 2-10 (flatly rejected by chair). I then asked the question as soon as possible on all non-contentious debates, which was only partially successful.

edmundoconnor

Boom Boom wrote:

What a contrast to the Conservative convention! No right wing ideologues and nut cases at this NDP convention, other than the observers (James Moore, for one - called the NDP on economy simply a bunch of loonies: business-haters).

One of the YSW delegates swears up and down he saw Stephane Dion as an observer.

JeffWells

Did I really see the guy from Prairie Giant deliver a speech imitating Tommy Douglas? Ghoulish and rather sad, IMO.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

It's obvious - at least on the first day of the convention - that Layton's support is solid, despite his missteps this month. I doubt very much that the grassroots support his stance on extending the war against Libya, his dissing of DePape, his awkwardness around "50% + 1"/the Clarity Act, and total lack of support for the Gaza Boat. However, Layton has been just great in interviews dealing with the Canadian economy and the damage that Harper is doing to this country. Just before the supper break yesterday there was a very good discussion around the Canadian Wheat Board, with Nellie Weibe (not sure I got her name right) speaking very passionately about the effect that killing the CWB will have on farmers - corporate farming will take over, leaving the small farmer broke and helpless and probably destroy farming as we know it today. Great convention so far. Oh, and Layton was to speak at a CUPW rally in support of the postal workers in downtown Vancouver during the supper break. CPAC coverage has been outstanding, dunno if I'll be able to watch much today. It looks to me like the problem the NDP have is with their leadership - totally out of touch on some issues such as those I highlighted above in bold face.

ETA: Brad Lavigne is probably my least favourite NDP person, but he gave an okay speech yesterday on how the NDP plans to work to become government in 2015. He called for a lot fo grassroots work to elect provincial NDP governments this fall, which (somehow) will lead to NDP federal success in 2015. I don't remember the details of his speech - other than calling for Liberals to join the NDP because they are now solidly the Official Opposition - maybe it'll be online today?

ETA: Lavigne said yesterday (Friday) there will be a presentation today (Saturday) on how the NDP won more seats and Official Opposition status.

Fidel

Layton to NDP convention: We'll form the next government

Quote:
"In asking New Democrats to form the official Opposition, they asked us to oppose the agenda of Stephen Harper and we will, we will," he said.

"But they also asked us to propose, to put forward positive proposals to improve the lives of Canadians and to take the next step to be ready in four years to become the government of Canada. And it's up to all of us in this room over this weekend to live up to that responsibility."

Inequality in Canada and Germany worst among 30 capitalist countries

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

Nellie Weibe (not sure I got her name right)

She's known around here as "Nettie," but a Barbie doll keeps beating her in elections.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

On the 'socialist' thread - good discussion on behind-closed-doors maneuvering. I thought that was how Liberals behave.

aka Mycroft

So what time is the socialism resolution?

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

edmundoconnor wrote:

bagkitty wrote:

Did you ask Ontario Pride to make a similar donation to the party and/or caucus? Does the NDP get exclusive rights if they donate, or at least first pick as to where they get to put their banners? I won't be there, but I am afraid I would be voting against the request if I was present.

A clarification, as my wording wasn't quite clear:

I was there as Ontario NDP LGBT caucus representative to the federal NDP LGBT caucus, making a formal request for $1,000 to assist the Ontario NDP LGBT caucus in creating a terrific presence for the caucus and party at various 2011 Ontario prides, including Toronto, London, and Ottawa.

The request was referred to the newly-elected executive, who approved it.

Thanks for the clarification. Being a bit of a curmudgeon, I still would have voted "no" Wink I think the provincial party and/or whatever the Ontario equivalent of the Council of Federal Ridings is should have been tapped for the funding rather than the federal caucus. Given relative party strength in various regions and the ability of caucuses within those regions to raise funds I think this is a poor allocation of resources. (Damn, I have spent way too much time at ANDP budget committee meetings, haven't I?)

In your role as provincial caucus rep, did you request the federal caucus to press the leader's handlers to make room on the schedule to ensure the leader would be present at these events? That would be something I would have voted for.

JeffWells

aka Mycroft wrote:

So what time is the socialism resolution?

 

I think that's scheduled for Sunday.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Very strong resolutions on climate change, against the Enbridge pipeline and tanker traffic, water resource protection, and more. One delegate pointed out that with a majority behind him, Harper can win all these arguments - but he can't win against 'people power' standing up against him - an echo of what Brigette DePape said - for example standing against the Enbridge pipeline in solidarity with the First Nations.

ETA: great speech from Ken Georgetti, reminding us that the NDP has always been in solidarity with labour.

ETA: strong words from Nathan Cullen on the environment. He'd make a great leader.

ETA: I didn't catch the name of the delegate who spoke against the tar sands, but he was awesome.

ETA: why can't the NDP be consistently progressive? All this great stuff at convention - but the headline stuff that I mentioned in an earlier post, why does Layton (and others) take such a regressive world view on some things?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Brad Lavigne made his presentation, showing NDP vote up right across the country - even in Alberta, but especially Quebec.

During the policy resolutions debates, a lot of calls to abolish the Senate.

Doug

It seems there's a resolution coming up later this afternoon to endorse the NDP parliamentary position on Libya. That debate should be full of fireworks!

janfromthebruce

abolish that House which is full of loser candidates, party hacks and bagmen.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

janfromthebruce wrote:

abolish that House which is full of loser candidates, party hacks and bagmen.

...and thwarts the democratic will of the House of Commons!

JeffWells

Lavigne's a smart guy, and if I trusted him more I'd be glad he's on my side, but currently I'm in a bit of confusion about whose side he's on. During his press conference he was going on about how the party loves open debate and would never stifle it. Gag me. (I mean, literally.)

 

lombar

Maybe backroom insiders can decide what measures we can express our 'democratic will' on before we go saying someone is thwarting it...

JeffWells

International resolutions coming up now. If I'm understanding correctly, the resolution on the boat to Gaza was bumped down the order paper from no. 2 to no. 10 without consultation. Tension brewing.

And Paul Dewar. Seriously, the NDP needs to do better than Paul Dewar.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Can't watch CPAC as it's off the air here due to bad weather conditions - fog, wind, heavy rain. I'll rely on your reporting.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

CPAC has been showing pages from the NDP policy book - which is shown on the big screen to delegates - and I'm impressed. Someone about a year ago made reference to this as the most progressive policy book out there (Stockholm maybe?) and it really shows the heart of the NDP. If you're a progressive, aside from the NDP, at the federal level, who else is there?  I think it's important that the NDP get its message together on hot-button issues like Gaza, Libya, and others with some consistency if it's going to eventually govern. And it needs to be consistent on Quebec, both from within the province, and outside, because people are watching.

JeffWells

It looks like they ran out of time on the resolutions and have moved on to other business. The Libya resolution didn't even make it to the floor.

Another thing: MPs were monopolizing the mics. When regular delegates spoke, it was almost always points of order about WTF is going on? Why can't we vote? that didn't receive satisfactory answers.

JeffWells

On domestic policy, the NDP has it together. Internationally, it's a shambles and an embarrassment.

dacckon dacckon's picture

Its hard to support Gaza(one of the poorest regions in the Arab world) with a Hamas goverment in power. Its not that Israel's right wing govt deserves praise, its that they simply have a bigger,gutless, shameful lobby and massive influence in the media.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Yeah, I was just going to say that. I suspect that if the NDP endorsed the Freedom Flotilla, they will be raked over the coals endlessly by the Canadian media - and we will have endless condemnations emanating from Harper and his caucus, and probably from the Liberals as well. And all this negativity will sidetrack from the NDP's positive domestic policies, and forcing the party to play an endless game of defense. It's a shitty situation to be in, and shows just how unfair the MSM is to the NDP.

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