NDP leadership 73

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KenS

I really dont think anyone is going to come on board a campaign for being promised to be a certain critic or Deputy Leader. If anything, calculation is going to lead to the conclusion that the candidate you are linking to only has an X% chance to win... and if he doesn't, you've set yourself back.

As counter-intuitive as it may seem given the response here, I think Dewar is doing it out of the idea it is good optics. Whether it turns out to be the case remains to be seen. Not around here, initially at least.

Hunky_Monkey

Wilf Day wrote:

Just to recap: I read that the Liberal leadership candidates may be MPs David McGuinty and Marc Garneau, and defeated MP Mark Holland. Nice guys.

I'd say any of the serious NDP leadership candidates would be head and shoulders above any of them. What a strong field!

Dominic LeBlanc is a given.

BTW... not sure if I heard correctly, but they've adopted a US primary style system where anyone can vote regardless if you're a member or not.

KenS

Now they just have to make it work.

Good luck to them on that one. It's a daunting 'techno-organizational' task.

This while they have little matters like trying to make their fundraising contact work much more efficiently, and massively changing theie administrative structure [assuming they can come to agreement on how].

Talk the big dreams by people who for over 5 years have failed at making progress on the desperately needed modest aspirations of improvement.

Wilf Day

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
BTW... not sure if I heard correctly, but they've adopted a US primary style system where anyone can vote regardless if you're a member or not.

A gimmick, but great publicity. In fact, anyone in Ontario can vote for NDP leader at a nominal cost of only $5 or $6: You get 75% of your $25 membership fee back as a tax credit. Unemployed, underemployed or under 26 pay $5.

Just like it says in all those ads the party has been running.

What? You haven't seen the ads?

Neither have I.

(That would be $6 in Manitoba, $5 in Alberta, $4 or $5 in Nova Scotia, $2 or $10 in New Brunswick, NWT and Nunavut, $2 or $5 in Quebec, PEI and Yukon, $1 or $5 in Newfoundland, or only $1 or $2 in BC.) Hmm. The ads could say "$10 or less, generally around $5 or less," couldn't they?

Hunky_Monkey

Yeah, Wilf. Just read up on it. You have to become a supporter... fill out a form to declare your support of the Liberal party... be 18+... and must not be a supporter or member of another party. So essentially, you become a member but don't pay for it...

Not such a big deal.

theleftyinvestor

Wilf Day wrote:

Just to recap: I read that the Liberal leadership candidates may be MPs David McGuinty and Marc Garneau, and defeated MP Mark Holland. Nice guys.

I'd say any of the serious NDP leadership candidates would be head and shoulders above any of them. What a strong field!

 

Interesting. I think I've seen Holland on P&P and he's very well-spoken. Perhaps any of these could be the people Ontario needs to win a bunch of seats back from Conservatives. Leave the rest of the country to Team Orange ;)

ottawaobserver

Wilf, you've seen Nathan Cullen's video about joining the NDP, though, haven't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJdSOf2b5s

It's really great!

ottawaobserver

Hunky_Monkey wrote:

Yeah, Wilf. Just read up on it. You have to become a supporter... fill out a form to declare your support of the Liberal party... be 18+... and must not be a supporter or member of another party. So essentially, you become a member but don't pay for it... Not such a big deal.

H_M, you're missing Wilf's point, which he has made several times, that he thinks the NDP should be funding an expensive ad campaign to encourage people to join the party. I'm not sure that expenditure of funds isn't overkill on top of what the candidates are doing, when the party will have to introduce the new Leader afterwards, but regardless, Cullen's video ad is a great contribution to the overall goal.

Wilf Day

ottawaobserver wrote:

Wilf, you've seen Nathan Cullen's video about joining the NDP, though, haven't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJdSOf2b5s

It's really great!

NOW!!!

I liked it so much I posted it on my Facebook profile.

Wilf Day

ottawaobserver wrote:

H_M, you're missing Wilf's point, which he has made several times, that he thinks the NDP should be funding an expensive ad campaign to encourage people to join the party. I'm not sure that expenditure of funds isn't overkill on top of what the candidates are doing, when the party will have to introduce the new Leader afterwards, but regardless, Cullen's video ad is a great contribution to the overall goal.

Not just to encourage people to join: to tell them how cheap and easy it is. And most of all, to tell them the Feb. 18 deadline.

Expensive? What would it cost? If I got an e-mail from the party asking me to contribute to such an ad, I'd donate the $100 (cost: $25) I'd have donated to a candidate if I had supported one.

KenS

On the aggregate level, dues are a much lesser factor in why people do or do not join a party.

The real hurdle is that concept of 'joining'.

What leadership campaigns and nomination battles do is give people a material/tangible reason for joining that oversomes that reservation.

Advertising the low cost of membership would I think have almost no effect,

While not having to pay dues is what gets TALKED about around the Liberal idea, I'm sure the idea was hatched asa means to get over that hurdle of joining. I've always been skeptical whether the target audience will see supporter as any different.... and the wording of what a 'Supporter' is confirms that. The target audience would not generally know that it sounds the same as what is expected of Members.... but I think that at the 'smell test' level the take-up of the idea is going to be 'gee, this sounds like joining.' Duh.

But it will be an interesting experiment to see what happens. Though it sure as hell isnt going to be the silver bullet of getting lots more participation. Then again, maybe its mostly about the optics.... of the Liberals sounding more open.

ottawaobserver

Wilf Day wrote:

ottawaobserver wrote:

H_M, you're missing Wilf's point, which he has made several times, that he thinks the NDP should be funding an expensive ad campaign to encourage people to join the party. I'm not sure that expenditure of funds isn't overkill on top of what the candidates are doing, when the party will have to introduce the new Leader afterwards, but regardless, Cullen's video ad is a great contribution to the overall goal.

Not just to encourage people to join: to tell them how cheap and easy it is.

Actually, Wilf, if they did that, there would be a snarky story almost right away about how the NDP was giving it away, and *anyone* could join and that just de-legitimizes the NDP leadership race.

Of course, when the Liberals give it away and pre-de-legitimize their own leadership race, the media laps it up, and pronounces the idea a genius one.

No-one said life was fair, but I'm pretty sure the party doesn't do as you suggest for pretty much that exact reason.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Before Pierre Ducasse ran as a candidate here, the Liberal organization went house-to-house on the Lower North Shore selling memberships for $5. I presume they did this all over the riding. They still lost to the BQ guy. I haven't seen anyone - of any party - going door to door selling memberships since.

CanadaApple

Wilf Day wrote:
Has anyone else even run for leader with a pre-announced deputy on his or her team?

Well, it's not quite the same, but I think when Ronald Reagan was running for the Republican Nomination in '76 against incumbent President Gerald Ford, he mention he was going to pick Richard Schweiker as his running mate shortly before the Republican National Convention opened. Some people have suggested that it was this that ended up costing Reagan the nomination that year. Which means he would probably have been elected President four years earlier. But that's a topic for another forum...Tongue out 

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

writer wrote:

 

Strong NDP turnout to hear leadership candidates

Debate almost didn't happen

 

That's a really great photograph of Nash and Saganash. I know that may seem trivial but I think it captures genuine warmth and humanity.

 

ottawaobserver

Thanks for pointing that out, laine lowe, because there was no photo the first time I looked at that story.  They must have added it later. And it is a good one.

Howard

I can't take Dewar seriously. Not only does he not have adequate French but I hate it when a candidate comes across as bluffing as badly as he did in that interview with Akin.

ottawaobserver

WTH, Howard, we have two totally different takes on that then. I found him really warm and engaging in that interview, and communicating just what he wanted to. I think we have a real Mars-Venus thing going on between our perceptions of the same events.

Hunky_Monkey

ottawaobserver wrote:

Hunky_Monkey wrote:

Yeah, Wilf. Just read up on it. You have to become a supporter... fill out a form to declare your support of the Liberal party... be 18+... and must not be a supporter or member of another party. So essentially, you become a member but don't pay for it... Not such a big deal.

H_M, you're missing Wilf's point, which he has made several times, that he thinks the NDP should be funding an expensive ad campaign to encourage people to join the party. I'm not sure that expenditure of funds isn't overkill on top of what the candidates are doing, when the party will have to introduce the new Leader afterwards, but regardless, Cullen's video ad is a great contribution to the overall goal.

I was talking about the new Liberal leadership primary process which I think Wilf described as a "gimmick"... and I agree.

samuelolivier

Boom Boom wrote:

Before Pierre Ducasse ran as a candidate here, the Liberal organization went house-to-house on the Lower North Shore selling memberships for $5. I presume they did this all over the riding. They still lost to the BQ guy. I haven't seen anyone - of any party - going door to door selling memberships since.

We considered it in Laurier--Sainte-Marie based on some positive feedback from people from the West part of the Montreal island who did it and got a big increase in their membership and a great respond at people's door in their riding. But we decided to do other activities and initiatives to recruit new members. We might do door to door in spring though.

Slightly off topic, but I am really proud of my riding association. We have an active MP who is one of our strongest new parlemantarians, a really motivated and dedicated bunch of people coming to our meetings (sometimes up to 20), our membership increased a lot in the last few months and we are now close to 400 members. Our goal is 500 members by mid-February.

Well, I just want to share my pride with you guys. Those who are saying the NDP is going nowhere in Quebec are not doing the grass work we are now doing in our riding, because we got great respond and all indicators are positive. 

KenS

Thats great Samuel.

And I would give a serious thought to the door-to-door memberships.

Here is my thought and experience of that.

The reason that would not have worked in Boom Boom's riding is both because 'yuck, the Liberals' and its a political party. Generally, speaking I wouldnt try that for the NDP either- even where we are popular. People are reluctant to join parties, any kind of conatct is a lot of work, and door-to-door isnt good payoff for all that work.

BUT...

I have done it with a popular local environmental organization, in neighbourhoods where we are going to be close to universally faoured, fit the support demographics, etc. That isnt a political party though- and overcoming that hump people have. But I can see that in your case with the NDP being new and a lot of people being interested to know more, the same dynamic would work.

In many ways door to door is more straightforward- no data gathering required and no finding enough phones- and its very gratifying for volunteers. [You really have to press home to people to keep moving, dont spend to long in people's houses. Sign them up (or not), and call them later to talk more.] If you dont have any data about where your vote and turnout was the best, then make your best guess.

The younger the demographic of a neighbourhood, the less you will have to deal with that reluctance to join. Though you also want high turnout neighbourhhods. People who dont vote are a waste of time when you are on the hunt for members.

This reluctance to join a party may not be as strong in Quebec. But it would still be a resistance and an obstacle.

Almost forgot what is hopefully obvious: having a vote in the choice of leader is a fantistic hook. It is the only time I have found it easy for the riding to do memberships.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Door-to-door worked well here for the Liberals. And it was done by people who actually lived in the community canvassed - everyone thus knew the canvasser personally (these are small towns and villages). I don't know why they didn't continue - probably with a new candidate and lack of organization.

Howard

ottawaobserver wrote:

WTH, Howard, we have two totally different takes on that then. I found him really warm and engaging in that interview, and communicating just what he wanted to. I think we have a real Mars-Venus thing going on between our perceptions of the same events.

Could be. Maybe I'm also letting past French colour my judgment.

janfromthebruce

good show Samuel.

Howard

janfromthebruce wrote:

good show Samuel.

Smile

Wilf Day

samuelolivier wrote:
I am really proud of my riding association. We have an active MP who is one of our strongest new parlemantarians, a really motivated and dedicated bunch of people coming to our meetings (sometimes up to 20), our membership increased a lot in the last few months and we are now close to 400 members. Our goal is 500 members by mid-February.

Well, I just want to share my pride with you guys. Those who are saying the NDP is going nowhere in Quebec are not doing the grass work we are now doing in our riding, because we got great respond and all indicators are positive. 

And this is not just in support of any single candidate? I see that your MP has not endorsed anyone, and next door you have Alexandre Boulerice in Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie supporting Brian Topp, Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet in Hochelaga supporting Peggy Nash, and Thomas Mulcair himself in Outremont. Is there any consensus in your riding?

KenS

This is in Nova Scotia, but as Constituency Pres, I recruited a lot of new members with the hook that they could play a role in the race. I was supporting a candidate, but that was not part of the pitch. I think you get more people that way.

And then later, you can call the same people you recruited and make a pitch for your candidate...  Of course anyone can do that. But the point is as compared to calling person X and making a pitch to join so they can support your candidate... you get more building of your riding organization by breaking that into the two steps, while still making the pitch for your candidate.

It worked very well both for our organization, and the candidate who we were all supporting. And I dont see why it would be any different if the riding activists are supporting different people.

MegB

Closed.  See #74

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