NDP leadership race 2

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Left Turn Left Turn's picture

mark_alfred wrote:
I think the NDP organizing and devoting 4 or 5 or whatever months to getting feedback on policy from EDAs is a good thing.  It was a pretty detailed and extensive process.  I'm certainly not aware of other mainstream parties like the Libs or Cons ever doing something similar.

If the NDP hierarchy were actually interested in getting feedback from members regarding the Leap Manifesto, they would have ensured that meetings to discuss it would be held in each riding, and that the results of these meetings would be included in the report on the matter.

In any ridings in which such a meeting was not held -- and I'll venture an educated guess that this includes most ridings -- NDP members were not provided the opportunity to give their feedback on the Leap Manifesto.

R.E.Wood

Absolutely, Left Turn -- there was no engagement in my riding. I'm a member and never heard a word from the federal party itself, or from any local people as to any discussion on the Leap topic. Zero. Nothing.

As far as I'm concerned they've totally dropped the ball on engaging membership in any discussion on this topic. Not impressed, whether the NDP took the leap direction or not, the point was to have a discussion about it. Total failure to do so.

I want a kick ass new leader, who wants to do things differently than the Mulcair years! (And, I can tell you right now, that's not going to be Peter Julian!)

Geoff

"As far as I'm concerned they've totally dropped the ball on engaging membership in any discussion on this topic." R.E. Wood, I don't think anyone dropped the ball. Rather, the party leadership found a creative way to reverse the decision made at Convention to hold meaningful discussions about the LM. 

All the apparatchiks need to do now is support Tom in a leadership bid next year. Assuming they pull it off, he'll lead us into the 2018 election, and we can all forget about the 'terrible mistakes' the delegates made in Edmonton. It will be as if the convention didn't happen.   

Unionist

Geoff, the convention could have voted confidence or non-confidence in Mulcair if they so chose. They didn't. Nor did they vote to repudiate one single policy that helped bring electoral disaster. So yes, it seems that the convention has already been forgotten - by those who read their own wish list into it.

Geoff

Unionist wrote:
Geoff, the convention could have voted confidence or non-confidence in Mulcair if they so chose. They didn't. Nor did they vote to repudiate one single policy that helped bring electoral disaster. So yes, it seems that the convention has already been forgotten - by those who read their own wish list into it.

Interesting points about what we didn't vote for, but what we did vote for was to hold a meaningful discussion at the riding level on the Leap Manifesto. The party appears to have scuppered the process by imposing an unrealistic deadline that, in effect, swept the issue under the carpet.

Further, no one in the party hierarchy seems willing or able to acknowledge the existence of the document that includes the deadline. So, my point is not to re-hash the election result or to take shots at Tom. I would just like to see the will of Convention respected. 

Party favour

Any thoughts on this "Draft Sid Ryan" campaign from the Socialist Caucus?

 http://www.sidryanforndp.ca/

Geoff

Party favour wrote:

Any thoughts on this "Draft Sid Ryan" campaign from the Socialist Caucus?

 http://www.sidryanforndp.ca/

I suspect he would be very, very popular within a very, very narrow range of party members. 

mark_alfred

Quote:
Interesting points about what we didn't vote for, but what we did vote for was to hold a meaningful discussion at the riding level on the Leap Manifesto.

So what's preventing you and your riding from having those meaningful discussions?

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

Quote:
Interesting points about what we didn't vote for, but what we did vote for was to hold a meaningful discussion at the riding level on the Leap Manifesto.

So what's preventing you and your riding from having those meaningful discussions?

Exactly.

 

Unionist

Party favour wrote:

Any thoughts on this "Draft Sid Ryan" campaign from the Socialist Caucus?

 http://www.sidryanforndp.ca/

Yeah. Sid Ryan, like the Socialist Caucus as a whole, is a sore loser.

 

Geoff

Unionist wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Quote:
Interesting points about what we didn't vote for, but what we did vote for was to hold a meaningful discussion at the riding level on the Leap Manifesto.

So what's preventing you and your riding from having those meaningful discussions?

Exactly.

 

The deadline has passed. We can have all the 'meaningful discussions' we want, but the report is probably in the can already. Consultation after the fact is not 'meaningful', at all.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..you are right to persue this issue geoff. and it would be a breath of fresh air to have a discussion around party democracy that didn't end up in a big fight with name calling. starting a fight is really a way to divert attention away from a topic when what is needed is an open discussion. how else will things change? demanding actions from a membership that isn't even able to openly discuss the issues without being attacked by the party is also futile.

..lessons could be taken from the labour party and the saunders campaign instead i sense a defensiveness. a closing up when it comes to the topic of party democracy.

felixr

May the most extremist candidate win #nailincoffin

mark_alfred

I note the Angus page has grown substantially.  ETA:  I think the Dana Larsen page is not applicable to the federal race.  I think it was set up a while ago for the BC NDP leadership race.

Party favour

Here's the state of the phony war NDP leadership campaign pages (as of November 19):

Bring Back Tom Muclair 3,929 likes

Draft Jagmeet Singh 2,000 likes

Draft Charlie Angus 428 likes

Draft Niki Ashton 356 likes

Ruth Ellen Brosseau: NDP leader 294 members

Draft Sid Ryan 255 likes

Draft Megan Leslie 96 likes

Draft Dana Larsen 37 likes

Draft Cindy Blackstock 29 likes

mark_alfred

Guy Caron, another potential NDP leadership candidate, presents to the Student Budget Consultation what the NDP's priorities will be for budget 2017.

nicky
Unionist

[url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/CheriDiNovoForNDPleader/]Friends of Cheri DiNovo for NDP Leader (unofficial discussion page)[/url]

68 likes

mark_alfred

Guy Caron on CTV QP (along with Cons' Fast and Libs' Lametti) discussing NAFTA:  video link

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/charlie-angus... Angus, ‘socialist punk rocker with a big heart,’ expected to announce federal NDP leadership bid[/url]

Quote:
New Democrat MP Charlie Angus — a no-nonsense “character” by all accounts — is expected to announce a federal leadership bid soon, sources say.

The race to find a leader by next October is empty so far. B.C. MP Peter Julian recently stepped down as House leader to consider his own candidacy, but hasn’t announced a decision yet.

An NDP insider said Angus has notified party leadership he’s planning to step out of his position as caucus chair, probably before the holidays. An announcement is likely to come soon after that.

“I think he’s a very likeable politician and human being, which is a huge asset,” said former party director Robin Sears, of Earnscliffe Strategy Group. “I think his credibility, especially on First Nations issues, is unimpeachable.”

CanadaApple

Has Angus actually said he's a Socialist? 

 

 

mark_alfred

I don't know.  But the NDP is a member of Socialist International.

mark_alfred

Angus is great.  Still, of the possible contenders, my preference is Guy Caron.  He seems smart and sincere. 

mark_alfred
josh

Overly cautious? Not bold enough? Yes. Yes.

R.E.Wood

"Angus Steps Down as NDP Caucus Chair"

Yes, we saw that coming. What I find interesting is that REB is expected to replace him as caucus chair, which - I presume - means she doesn't intend to enter the leadership contest.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/angus-leadership-run-1.3863515

 

Geoff

mark_alfred wrote:

Not directly about the leadership race, but kinda related: NDP’s Challenge: Seize Working Class Anger and Make It Positive, Says Director Robert Fox

I couldn't agree more. I heard Fox speak at ONDP Provincial Council a few weeks ago. It was almost as if Tommy was in the room. This is the heart that the NDP has been missing for many years, with all due respect to Jack Layton.

R.E.Wood

"The only band that matters: Can Charlie Angus rock-and-roll his way to the NDP leadership?"

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/the-only-band...

 

josh

Angus gets most mentions among those who would vote for NDP.

http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/11/23/ndp-leadership-charlie-angus-edge-am...

R.E.Wood

josh wrote:

Angus gets most mentions among those who would vote for NDP.

http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/11/23/ndp-leadership-charlie-angus-edge-am...

That's a crazy poll, including people who've confirmed they will not be running (Boulerice; Cullen), and not including contenders who are generating some interest (Singh). It's meaningless until people jump in and the race actually gets going.

Geoff

R.E.Wood wrote:

josh wrote:

Angus gets most mentions among those who would vote for NDP.

http://www.hilltimes.com/2016/11/23/ndp-leadership-charlie-angus-edge-am...

That's a crazy poll, including people who've confirmed they will not be running (Boulerice; Cullen), and not including contenders who are generating some interest (Singh). It's meaningless until people jump in and the race actually gets going.

I think Charlie has the passion and credibility to be leader. I just wonder how he can do so without being fluent in French. Will he appoint a Quebec lieutenant who will serve as virtual co-leader?

I'm sure Charlie is mindful of the problem, so I look forward to seeing how he handles it. He'd definitely be a great party leader.

Oh, and agreed that the polls mean nothing right now. We need to establish who's in the race first. I don't even see the reason to conduct polls yet.

swallow swallow's picture

Crazy way to report the poll, too. With a 7.5% margin of error, it's not even true to say Angus is in the lead with 10% - he is tied with everyone except Julian who trails at 2%. 

 

R.E.Wood

"The NDP, not Trudeau, can be the antidote to Trumpism"

An interesting piece focusing on Jagmeet Singh:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/11/27/the-ndp-not-trudeau-can-be-the-anti...

 

Ciabatta2

I'm a huge fan of him - as musician, writer and MP - but Angus is not an effective leadership candidate.  He's funny and biting and his commentary rings true, but it is also the type that will come across as snide when compared to Trudeau's disposition.  He'll mostly appeal to people already voting NDP or garner "shucks, I like this guy" sympathy from people voting conservative.  But mostly, Angus' French is just not good enough.  It's bad.  It's a shame Boulerice isn't running.  Angus is the candidate to suceed Jack Layton in a world where the NDP didn't win official opposition and didn't develop a following in Québec, or the guy that takes over the provincial mantle in Ontario if Singh doesn't want it.  The problem with the latter is that I don't think Angus cares much for provincial politics.

R.E.Wood

A positive policy-oriented article on Peter Julian. "Peter Julian and the Party of Inclusive Growth"

In an interview, Julian confirms he’s talking with people about a run for the NDP leader job – no decision yet. But he does have firm thoughts about where his party needs to stand.

“I’m considered to be an outsider because I bring up the issues that are important to my constituents –higher debt loads, food banks, more people working part-time and a loss of our manufacturing jobs,” says Julian.

More at the link:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/12/04/peter-julian-and-the-party-of-inclu...

R.E.Wood

"Despite Ottawa ‘charm offensive,’ Jagmeet Singh remains coy about NDP leadership plans"

"Singh said he thinks the race will be exciting, and there’s a “vibrant universe” of potential support for the NDP — especially after recent Liberal missteps."

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/despite-ottaw...

 

Mighty Middle

Rachel Notley has announced Brian Topp has resigned and will be returning to Ontario in the new year,

Geoff

Mighty Middle wrote:

Rachel Notley has announced Brian Topp has resigned and will be returning to Ontario in the new year,

Guess he's got an election on his mind. He's a sharp dude, so I think he'll be a helpful addition to Andrea Horwath's team.

Mighty Middle

Geoff wrote:

Guess he's got an election on his mind. He's a sharp dude, so I think he'll be a helpful addition to Andrea Horwath's team.

Brian Topp said he’s heading back to Toronto for a fellowship at the Public Policy Forum, and looking forward to “putting my family back together again.” He makes another vow: he absolutely will not run for the leadership of the federal NDP, having tried that once before.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-from-topp-down-notley-shake...

R.E.Wood

Mulcair is predicting "several" candidates will enter the NDP leadership race "right after Christmas."

Only Angus and Julian are mentioned in the article. 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-leadership-race-to-gain-candidates-af...

 

Mobo2000

I like Charlie Angus too, both his politics and his demeanor/presentation, but agree with Ciabatta that he may not match up against Trudeau well.   Unfortunately I don't see anyone right now that does match up well with Trudeau.

Glad Brian Topp isn't in the running either.  

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

I think no one wants to run because the polls are so bad. Almost certain defeat does not fit with the personality of the average politician.

josh

Mobo2000 wrote:

I like Charlie Angus too, both his politics and his demeanor/presentation, but agree with Ciabatta that he may not match up against Trudeau well.   Unfortunately I don't see anyone right now that does match up well with Trudeau.

Glad Brian Topp isn't in the running either.  

Either Angus or Julian would be a big improvement.

Geoff

josh wrote:

Mobo2000 wrote:

I like Charlie Angus too, both his politics and his demeanor/presentation, but agree with Ciabatta that he may not match up against Trudeau well.   Unfortunately I don't see anyone right now that does match up well with Trudeau.

Glad Brian Topp isn't in the running either.  

Either Angus or Julian would be a big improvement.

Interesting that Niki Ashton's name wasn't included in the article about Mulcair. Agreed, it's good that Topp isn't running. I thought, though, that if he was returning to Ontario, it would be to play a role in running the ONDP campaign.

swallow swallow's picture

Why isn't Angus a good foil for Trudeau? I hear that the left is suppsoed to run after the rural white working class now. Charlie Angus is probably the best person in the entire NDP to do that (well, in English, anyway). Probably not much point trying to out-Trudeau Justin Trudeau, he does a fairly good job of playing himself.

CanadaApple

montrealer58 wrote:

I think no one wants to run because the polls are so bad. Almost certain defeat does not fit with the personality of the average politician.

That's probably true and probably for the best. The NDP needs someone who can re-build and take the party in a new direction, not someone who's only in it for the glory. 

 

quizzical

lololololol

R.E.Wood

Mighty Middle wrote:

12 NDP MPs allegedly wanted Thomas Mulcair to step down as leader after losing the election. That according to political pundit Ian Capstick. He was a former press secretary to Jack Layton, and his husband was Thoms Mulcair director of communications.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap6h8hpoi-w

Wow - that's an excellent discussion about the lazy-ass job Mulcair's been doing as leader during the interim until he's replaced. Bravo to the panel, and especially Ian Capstick! Maybe he should run for leader? 

Mighty Middle

12 NDP MPs allegedly wanted Thomas Mulcair to step down as leader after losing the election. That according to political pundit Ian Capstick. He was a former press secretary to Jack Layton, and his husband was Thomas Mulcair director of communications.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap6h8hpoi-w

Stockholm

I the end what does it matter. the moment a new leader is chosen, no one will care that Mulcair stuck around as a lame duck leader for a year and a half rather than stepping aide for an interim leader.

The really big mistake the NDP made was setting the date for the choice of a new leader so far down the road. If they had simply decided to pick a new leader - say - in late november of this year 2016 - Mulcair would only be lame duck leader for a seven months rather than for 18 months...and for all the talk about needing a year and a half to let new unheard of candidates get in the race - i predict that there will be four or five serious candidates for the leadership and they will be the same four or five people who would have run if the contest had happened a year earlier. Instead the party is stuck spinning its wheels for a whole year. A lost year.

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