Niqab Warz Redux

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Unionist

skdadl wrote:

Btw, Unionist, I never called myself "Mrs Jean Charest." I called myself the skdadl equivalent of "Elizabeth Rosemond Taylor Hilton Wilding Todd Fisher Burton Burton Warner Fortensky." In fact, I still do.

You can call yourself whatever you like. But here in my home, in Québec, women were treated like little pieces of shit - by men, by the government, and especially by the Church - until the Quiet Revolution. Since then, we have gone far - much farther than the rest of Canada. Google QPIP, for one of a thousand examples. Here in Québec, we have had to take RADICAL steps to ensure that the hegemony of the Male Priests and Bishops shall never again prevail. That means forcing women (HORRORS!!!!!!!) to keep their own name, and not to submerge their identity into a man's - even if they plead, "Oh, really really, I want to be Mrs. So-and-So, so our kids will all have the same name - DADDY's NAME!!"

It's Stalinist, McCarthyite, and I can't remember the third thing you said. But it's ours. And we love it. Your system is good for you. Live and let live.

Likewise with secularism.

 

 

Bushfire

Legislating what women may or may not wear does not free them from oppression.  If you really have a problem with men forcing women to wear veils or anything else, then make laws against MEN's oppressive behaviour.  It's like women get punished by individual men, and then because of those men's behaviour, the state punishes women again.  WTF is that. 

People should wear whatever they want and the state has nothing to do with it.

skdadl

Unionist, I am hardly unaware of your old law. I just don't think it's a very intelligent basis for a defender of democratic principles and structures to argue from, so I don't.

Could you avoid the paternalistic pat on the head? Ta very much.

cruisin_turtle

Sven wrote:

she was not deported from Holland, for anti-Islam racism or otherwise.  She was born in Somalia and was raised Muslim (she also lived in Kenya, Saudi Arabia, and Ethiopia prior to age 22).  She was subject to genital mutilation and was forced into an arranged marriage...

I don't know much about her other than I remember seeing her, I think on Canadian TV, where she was being quizzed over lies in her past that threatened to have her deported from Holland even though she was an elected member of the Parliment there. She looked bad because she was execusing her previous lies and the interviewer was confronting her with facts that showed her to be lying about that.  Too bad I don't remember the details but I just did a quick google search. 

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/20838-calls-hirsi-ali-deported...

absentia

slipped

Sven Sven's picture

cruisin_turtle wrote:

I don't know much about her other than I remember seeing her...

I highly recommend her book "Infidel" and then suggest reading "Nomad".  Despite being beaten very frequently by family and "clan" members as a girl and as a young woman, being married off unwillingly to a stranger (her father knew the fellow for all of two hours when he promised her in marriage), and being "cut" (genital mutilation) as a girl, her memoirs are surprisingly free of bitterness and anger.  In fact, she writes with great empathy, although critically, about those in her past.  These are very thoughtful books.

absentia

Unionist wrote:

.... Here in Québec, we have had to take RADICAL steps to ensure that the hegemony of the Male Priests and Bishops shall never again prevail. That means forcing women (HORRORS!!!!!!!) to keep their own name, and not to submerge their identity into a man's - even if they plead, "Oh, really really, I want to be Mrs. So-and-So, so our kids will all have the same name - DADDY's NAME!!"

I obviously don't know anything about Quebec law, so this is an honest question: What name does a woman start out with? Is it her father's or mother's surname? If it's the mother's, i suppose that most women now would be carrying their maternal grandfather's name into marriage. The old men's names will never go away, because that's who originally had surnames to pass along. (The practical purpose of bestowing those was the taxation and conscription of men, btw, not the oppression of women.) And then, what are the children called by, if not daddy's name, it may be mommy's. Unless every family makes up new names for each kid? You can only hyphenate so many (two?) generations before it becomes impossibly cumbersome. Like, a modern Elizabeth Taylor etc. would be wearing her ancestry, instead of her biography. That's cool, too, i suppose, as long as you're not expected to sign it 14 times on a mortgage.

 

Unionist

absentia wrote:

I obviously don't know anything about Quebec law, so this is an honest question: What name does a woman start out with? Is it her father's or mother's surname?

No.

Listen, why exactly don't you review the thread I referenced earlier? I don't mind answering your questions, but this is already readily available.

[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/feminism/last-name-debate-quebec#comment-933881]..., for example:[/url]

Unionist, three years ago, wrote:

She appears to be unaware of the fact that she and her spouse can choose to name their kids after either parent, or both. I guess she believes kids automatically take their father's name!! Not in Québec. The decision is up to the parents.

If they disagree, the child is given a hyphenated name:

Quote:
52. En cas de désaccord sur le choix du nom de famille, le directeur de l'état civil attribue à l'enfant un nom composé de deux parties provenant l'une du nom de famille du père, l'autre de celui de la mère, selon leur choix respectif.

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

cabbie. Welcome to babble.

I find it interesting that you start this thread, and don't contribute until post #92, and when you do post, it's about something entirely unrelated to the issue, except in the minds of non-Muslim Westerners who can't distinguish the difference. Oh yeah, it also happens to be Islamophobic.

I've found this thread quite challenging. I've been reading it and not contributing. For the reasons stated by cruising turtle. If anyone starts a new one it would be interesting to think about that significant gap.

Closing for length.

 

cruisin_turtle

@Sven, I'll spell it out for you :)

I dislike reading spin.  If the author has no credibility with me, I wouldn't spend my time listening or reading for them.  That's why I rarely watch much in the main stream media.  Very little factual unbiased professional journalism left.  Many of the things you quote her on, for example having got married unwillingly, are disputed by people who knew her at the time.  She seems to have lied just about everything to the point where her own political party couldn't defend her record anymore.  That doesn't mean you can't enjoy her books but they are not for an idealist like me.

E.Tamaran

Maysie wrote:

Closing for length.

 

LOL!

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