Peggy Nash: After Spectacular Failure, NDP Needs A Leader Who Can Inspire

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terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

lololol whose going to accuse him, you tt? lmaooooooooooooooooooo

yes and if the shoe was on the other foot, and another MP from another party said he or she wasn't going to run. Then wound up running, you'd be the first to call him or her out on it as being a flip flopper.

quizzical

fk no. stop telling me what you think i'd do.

peter mackay has said forever he didn't want to be CPC leader. now he's going to run and i don't think he's a flip flopper.

things change as reasons for not wanting to do something change. it's called life.

Debater

Peter MacKay claims he wants to spend more time with his family.  It's been less than a year since he retired from the House of Commons.

It's possible he will indeed run, but it will be challenging for him.  He has no seat, and he speaks very little French.

He's also regarded with suspicion by those in the CPC that don't like Red Tories/former PC's.

R.E.Wood

Thomas Mulcair Agrees With Peggy Nash's Criticism Of His Campaign Performance:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/08/thomas-mulcair-peggy-nash-ndp-co...

 

 

Debater

Interesting.  Thanks for posting the link, R.E. Wood.

From the above article:

Quote:
“I could have written a lot what Peggy said there in terms of the failings of the campaign,” he said, adding that still he hopes to keep his former colleague close.

“She’s won for us before and I’d love to have her back. She’s a strong MP.”

Mulcair said it is “very difficult to contest” that the NDP failed to effectively communicate on the campaign trail.

josh

R.E.Wood wrote:

Thomas Mulcair Agrees With Peggy Nash's Criticism Of His Campaign Performance:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/08/thomas-mulcair-peggy-nash-ndp-co...

 

 

 

Apparently, Mulcair will do anything to remain as leader.  Including subjecting himself to a verbal flogging.

Debater

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised he said he agrees with most of Peggy Nash's comments (although privately he may be angry with her).

R.E.Wood

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/reid-can-tom-mulcair-show-ndp-hes...

Quotes:

Is he over himself?

That’s the stripped down, honest question NDP rank and file need to ask as they ponder whether to renew Tom Mulcair’s mandate as leader of their party.

Six months after getting pasted by voters, does he recognize that mad interrogational skills don’t guarantee election wins? Is he willing to make changes? Does he get it? Does he actually get it?

...

But all of that misses the essential point. The real issue is him. Mulcair. He’s the bet they’re placing. He’s the beginning, middle and end of this debate. And even more fundamental is the inescapable truth that he’s the reason they lost the 2015 election. Him. And his hubris.

...

As daunting as it seems to dump a sitting leader. As strange as it sounds to remove the king with no successor. As risky as replacing Mulcair might appear, the risks of sticking with him could prove far greater.  At 11% in the polls, the NDP are fighting for their life. More of the same from Mulcair could end them. 

Debater

Yes, like a lot of our politicians, Mulcair has an exaggerated sense of his own abilities.

He has certain strengths, but he also has to realize he has certain weaknesses.

He also has to realize that he is not always smarter than his opponents.  (eg. Both Trudeau & Harper outmaneuvered him on several occasions).

terrytowel

Peggy Nash just told CPAC if a leadership race is triggered she won't be running for leader. Saying "Once is enough"

Debater

I believe Nash.

I don't think she would want to go through another race.

Plus, it would be complicated by the fact that she doesn't have a seat.

R.E.Wood

Of course there are ostriches who deny anything is wrong, proclaim Mulcair is the greatest leader ever, and maybe even believe the line that we'll win with Mulcair in 2019...

But for those who actually have our eyes open the reality looks a lot different. How can anyone believe Mulcair has any principles, or beliefs of his own, after all his recent bending in the wind? He'll say anything - ANYTHING - to stay as leader. But I don't believe a word he says.

 

R.E.Wood

I don't think it matters that Nash doesn't currently have a seat. I really don't think that is or should be a prerequisite for running for leader of the party.

But if she says she won't do it, that's her decision. There are lots of other candidates, and I'm sure there are some that none of us have even thought about yet. There will be no shortage of talent.

Pondering

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/07/mulcair-leadership-vote-ndp-conv...

"There are two conversations, but they are obviously intertwined," said Nathan Cullen, a popular B.C. MP since 2004 who ran unsuccessfully against Mulcair for the party leadership in 2012.

"There is a temptation to really navel gaze, to really go into a full 'Oh my gosh! Oh, what did we offer? Are we not talking about the right things? Are we not presenting ourselves in the right way?'"

For Cullen, the October election was a confirmation that the NDP’s values were reflected in Canadian voters.

"When the Liberals brought forward platform elements that could have been written by the NDP, it was in a sense a form of imitation — and a correct guess than the Canadian public were very much ready for that. They did it differently, and in some cases better than we did. That's my reflection," he told The Huffington Post Canada.

He's delusional and politically tone deaf. Both he and Mulcair are full of hubris.

For Cullen, the October election was a confirmation that the NDP’s values were reflected in Canadian voters.

Who voted for the Liberals; why not just join the Liberal party then?

And look!  The NDP is a movement now too!

“I would hope to be able to have every single one of them but it wouldn’t be a real exercise if it were unanimous. We’re a political party, we’re a movement. We’re not a cult.”

Mulcair said the federal campaign in Ottawa tried to “impose” a model on different regions of the country and didn’t adapt enough. He said the party apparatus needs to be better connected to the base and local riding associations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/08/thomas-mulcair-peggy-nash-ndp-co...

Not a cult!  Why would he even say that? The NDP are totally mainstream now. More people consider voting NDP than for the Conservatives. The NDP was in first place for awhile.I suppose he is implying that he doesn't expect to get 100% support but nobody is suggesting anywhere close to that.

"The party apparatus" needs to be replaced. They are still trying to impose the old model begun by Layton of hugging the centre and seeking to replace the Liberals rather than being an alternative to them.

 

Cody87

Scathing, but on point. A powerful combination.

It came to a head in the election. Instead of assuming that voters would need to be convinced he should be their prime minister, Mulcair appeared to take it for granted that he already enjoyed their support. This inflated sense of self is the straight-line that connects the leader’s hubris and the campaign’s many mistakes. 

...

In short, the NDP’s cautious, error-crammed campaign was a direct product of the leader’s own perception of himself as the inevitable victor. And that’s why it’s so important that NDP members this weekend pose the question – does this guy get it? Has the inherent hubris that condemned last year’s campaign been exorcised?

The signals from Mulcair have been far from encouraging. Until a couple of weeks ago, it wasn’t even particularly obvious that he wanted or was much prepared to fight for the job. His message boiled down to: “All right, I’ll stay. But don’t expect me to beg for it. And remember, I’m doing you the favour.”

He’s also been silent on what he might do differently. Are we in store for a bearded Bernie Sanders? A fiery left-wing populist? Will he seize the environment from the Greens or renew old alliances with labour? We don’t know. We don’t even know if he agrees there’s a need to change. And that’s what should worry NDP delegates most.

quizzical

i had to search who scott reid is.

Quote:
Scott Reid is a principal at Feschuk.Reid and a CTV News political analyst. He was director of communications for former prime minister Paul Martin

lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooo

Debater

Reid can be a bit of an ass sometimes.  He's the one who made the stupid "beer and popcorn" comments during the 2005/2006 Election.

However, despite that bit of stupidity, he's still a good political analyst, and I can see why someone posted this piece.

It has some very sound analysis by Reid on Mulcair's mistakes and how Mulcair's arrogance hurt the NDP campaign.

quizzical

a good political analysist for corporations...... just sayin

wage zombie

josh wrote:

Apparently, Mulcair will do anything to remain as leader.  Including subjecting himself to a verbal flogging.

If Mulcair really wants to keep his job he needs to show he's serious by shaving his beard.

It works for bearded reality tv contestants about to be voted off.

kropotkin1951

R.E.Wood wrote:

Thomas Mulcair Agrees With Peggy Nash's Criticism Of His Campaign Performance:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/08/thomas-mulcair-peggy-nash-ndp-co...

Cody87

quizzical wrote:

i had to search who scott reid is.

Quote:
Scott Reid is a principal at Feschuk.Reid and a CTV News political analyst. He was director of communications for former prime minister Paul Martin

lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooo

I feel like we've been here before? Have we been here before?

http://rabble.ca/comment/1537437#comment-1537437

http://rabble.ca/comment/1537452#comment-1537452

Oh my God, we have been here before!

It doesn't matter who he is, if he's right. "A broken clock is right twice a day."

Debater

Mulcair and the NDP head into couples therapy at convention

NDP leader faces a divided party, with some calling for his departure and others standing behind him

Apr 08, 2016

Whatever the outcome of this weekend's vote on Tom Mulcair's leadership, it's already apparent that the NDP is a party deeply divided — not just over whether he deserves to stay in the job, but over where the party needs to go.

One can't be separated from the other.

-

Full article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mulcair-chris-hall-leadership-ndp-1.3525911

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
If Mulcair really wants to keep his job he needs to show he's serious by shaving his beard.

And his head.  It's a gesture of piety and humility that goes back 2000 years.

Debater

Dominic Cardy refuses to endorse Tom Mulcair, skips party convention

New Brunswick NDP leader was troubled by positions federal party took during 2015 campaign

Quote:
New Brunswick NDP Leader Dominic Cardy is skipping the federal party's weekend convention that will be voting on Tom Mulcair's future as leader and he is raising concerns about the direction the party is taking on key issues.

Cardy would not say whether he supports Mulcair continuing on at the helm of the federal party. He said he has an opinion but will leave it to the New Democrats heading to the Edmonton convention to decide on the federal leader's fate.

But Cardy was quick to point out problems that he has with the path the party is taking on several policy fronts dating back to last fall's federal election campaign.

"With the way the federal NDP campaign rolled out last year, from around halfway through the campaign, there were a lot of positions that I didn't feel particularly comfortable with," he said.

"I'm not particularly interested in spending my weekend talking with the party as they decide which of the positions they are going to take going into the future because I don't have any real confidence that they will be kept to."

--

Full article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/dominic-cardy-tom-mulcair-fe...

R.E.Wood

Quizzical, if you keep "l"-ing your "a" "oooooooooooooooooooo", you're not going to have any "a" left to "lo"

 

quizzical wrote:

lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooo

quizzical

but it works. shed 2" lauging so far this week.

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

R.E.Wood wrote:

Thomas Mulcair Agrees With Peggy Nash's Criticism Of His Campaign Performance:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/08/thomas-mulcair-peggy-nash-ndp-co...


Now all he needs is to find a Beckett.

terrytowel

Alexa McDonough (who endorsed Peggy Nash at the last leadership race) announced on Power Play just minutes ago she is backing Tom Mulcair to remain as leader.

Debater

Looks like the NDP Establishment is sticking together.

josh

terrytowel wrote:

Alexa McDonough (who endorsed Peggy Nash at the last leadership race) announced on Power Play just minutes ago she is backing Tom Mulcair to remain as leader.


One Blairite endorsing another.

swallow swallow's picture

Cody87 wrote:

Oh my God, we have been here before!

It doesn't matter who he is, if he's right. "A broken clock is right twice a day."

Yes indeed. 

He was 100% right about the "beer and popcorn" stuff too, though admittedly it was a poor choice of words. 

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
"A broken clock is right twice a day."

But what are the chances that you'll be looking at it at one of those two minutes per day that it is?

1/720 of the time:  "OMG, it's RIGHT!!"

719/720 of the time:  "Useless fucking broken fucking clock!!!"

quizzical

swallow wrote:
Cody87 wrote:
Oh my God, we have been here before!

It doesn't matter who he is, if he's right. "A broken clock is right twice a day."

Yes indeed. 

He was 100% right about the "beer and popcorn" stuff too, though admittedly it was a poor choice of words. 

i went and read cody' long and boring post and couldn't find a thing about beer and popcorn comments. what beer and popcorn comments?

Debater

It was about a decade ago now.

I believe what Scott Reid said was that the savings Canadians would get from the Conservative platform would be just about enough to buy "beer and popcorn".

quizzical

Debater wrote:
It was about a decade ago now.

I believe what Scott Reid said was that the savings Canadians would get from the Conservative platform would be just about enough to buy "beer and popcorn".

i knew you were trying to spin it so i searched. might as well have done it in the first place.

Quote:
"Don't give people 25 bucks a week to blow on beer and popcorn," Reid said during a panel discussion on CBC News: Sunday.

 

Debater

Why would I need to spin it when I already said above I thought Reid's comments made him sound like an ass at the time?

You read too much into some of these things.  LOL.

quizzical

Debater wrote:
Why would I need to spin it when I already said above I thought Reid's comments made him sound like an ass at the time?

You read too much into some of these things.  LOL.

etd to change: oh  you did. my very sincere apologies i didn't scroll far enough up times 2.

Debater

Thanks for correcting yourself.

I think Reid is a pompous ass, but sometimes he does make accurate observations about the political world.

Debater

Regina NDP MP Erin Weir mum on leadership vote

April 8, 2016

Despite his own recent success, Regina Lewvan NDP member of Parliament Erin Weir is not saying how he will vote on the continued leadership of Thomas Mulcair.

-

Full article:

http://cjme.com/article/580154/regina-ndp-mp-erin-weir-mum-leadership-vote

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Debater wrote:

josh wrote:

56% of New Democrats polled think Mulcair should stay on:

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2490/just-one-third-of-canadians-thin...

That's a pretty tepid level of support.

It really needs to be around 70%, just like at the Convention.

If only slightly more than half of NDPers think Mulcair should stay, it would mean a pretty divided party.

Convention delegates tend to skew towards the elite of the party, and thus tend to be more supportive of the status quo than the membership as a whole. If Mulcair has 56% among the membership as a whole, I wouldn't be surprised to find that he has as much as 75% support among convention delegates.

Of course, it's possible that Mulcair's support level among convention deleagtes is closer to 56%, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it as high as 75%.

wage zombie

Mulcair won the leadership with 57.2% on the final ballot (with Brian Topp getting 42.8%). I think that adds some perspective to the numbers.

josh

Debater wrote:

Regina NDP MP Erin Weir mum on leadership vote

April 8, 2016

Despite his own recent success, Regina Lewvan NDP member of Parliament Erin Weir is not saying how he will vote on the continued leadership of Thomas Mulcair.

-

Full article:

http://cjme.com/article/580154/regina-ndp-mp-erin-weir-mum-leadership-vote


Former babbler if I recall. Along with Noah Evanchuck.

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

fk no. stop telling me what you think i'd do.

peter mackay has said forever he didn't want to be CPC leader. now he's going to run and i don't think he's a flip flopper.

things change as reasons for not wanting to do something change. it's called life.

OK good I hope you remain consistent with that particular narrative

quizzical

i'll choose whatever narrative i want. i've a right to "flip flop" too.

Unionist

Debater wrote:

Regina NDP MP Erin Weir mum on leadership vote

Couldn't find the interview with his mum. Is there another link?

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

i'll choose whatever narrative i want. i've a right to "flip flop" too.

GREAT! I hope you are generous in spirit with other posters who "flip-flop" as well.

quizzical

Debater wrote:
Regina NDP MP Erin Weir mum on leadership vote

April 8, 2016

Despite his own recent success, Regina Lewvan NDP member of Parliament Erin Weir is not saying how he will vote on the continued leadership of Thomas Mulcair.

-

Full article:

">http://cjme.com/article/580154/regina-ndp-mp-erin-weir-mum-leadership-vo...

after all the nothing based drama and spin in the article, and here, Weir said this:

Quote:
Weir says the mood of the Edmonton NDP convention is very positive.

Debater

But Weir didn't announce which way he was going to vote, or make a prediction on whether Mulcair would survive or not.

I think that is what the author is saying in that article.

Debater

Left Turn wrote:

Debater wrote:

josh wrote:

56% of New Democrats polled think Mulcair should stay on:

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2490/just-one-third-of-canadians-thin...

That's a pretty tepid level of support.

It really needs to be around 70%, just like at the Convention.

If only slightly more than half of NDPers think Mulcair should stay, it would mean a pretty divided party.

Convention delegates tend to skew towards the elite of the party, and thus tend to be more supportive of the status quo than the membership as a whole. If Mulcair has 56% among the membership as a whole, I wouldn't be surprised to find that he has as much as 75% support among convention delegates.

Of course, it's possible that Mulcair's support level among convention deleagtes is closer to 56%, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it as high as 75%.

I agree.

I think there's a strong chance that Mulcair will get 75% support in the Leadership vote.

The party has been working to stack the event in Mulcair's favour by having the labour unions, particularly Jerry Dias, tell people to put off voting Mulcair out for another 2 years.

I think that will save Mulcair.

josh

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