I've made some detailed comments in these posts about what happened, just as a person who lives in TO.
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/judes/2010/06/toronto-burning-or-it
Clearly, the police were ordered from their commanders, perhaps sitting in Barrie On, to leave Toronto core with no police. I saw the entire thing happen, as detailed here.
http://rabble.ca/news/2010/06/g20-police-let-rioters-run-amok-and-then-s...
The vandals started at Queen-Spadina, and ran unopposed, with the few police around just watching them, for miles, all along Queen, all along Yonge. According to the Star, that was for 2 hours, 3:30-5:30. The police did nothing.
There was not one cop on Yonge St before, during, or for hours after. I have detailed the facts in those other threads. Later I went from College to Front on Yonge, and did not see ONE single cop until Front. None.
The only police were guys in riot gear, usually marching around where no one was, except puzzled Yuppies looking at them. The police strategy to march Robocop lockstep at 2 miles an hour is probably the most ineffective tactic on planet earth, when there are no vandals or protestors within a mile. Even IF there was a vandal right there, Robocop can only move 2 miles an hour in a slow march. Then all Robocop can do is beat people with sticks. How can slow-motion Robocops even do anything? Answer: They can't, that is why those bb-vandals just ran in circles. A billion dollars buys you the most idiotic police "tactic" that a 14 year old kid could outwit? Are the police commanders that clueless?
So the riot-cop Robocop strategy, has to be the most idiotic strategy to cover a large downtown area. They can't move or do anything. Then they get into vans and race around, get out, suit up, and no one is there. Rinse and repeat. Seriously, its the most idiotic and useless "strategy". It has to have been a deliberate tactic to let the vandals run wild, either that or the police commanders have no idea of how to do their job. They are either totally incompetent, or they planned it to be just like it was.
As far as the burning car, they let it burn forever. I personally went up to a group of riot-police with their hats off, who were one small-block from the burning car. I walked up and said...uh...guys..there is a car burning there for about an hour...it might catch buildings on fire...where is the firetrucks? They just shrugged and said they knew about it.
The entire Queen St area could have been torched by some maniac, and they would apparently let Queen St burn down. So those police records, need to be checked. After the cops didn't care about the burning car, I phoned 911, and said...uh...there is a burning car in the middle of Queen that has been burning for about an hour? She said, oh yeah we know about that, very casual.
So the commander of the entire police system, ordered the police to NOT intervene, and ordered the fire dept to NOT put out the fire, obviously. I also asked the EMS paramedics who were parked in the middle of Queen...what's up with the fire dept? They laughed sarcastically, and said they must be having dinner. The paramedics were not scared of the public, they were there are saw it was just a few idiots acting out.
So yes, the police authorities should be taken to task for outrageous negligence. The Queen St merchants were the victims of the police negligence, as if one insane person torched a building, the block could have gone up, and it appears the police would have forbid the firetrucks to put it out. That entire area of Queen West could have burnt to the ground.
As detailed in my other posts, either the police big-wigs wanted vandalism to happen due to no police in the area for hours (to amplify their budgets), and/or there was some idiot police commander on a computer in Barrie giving the worst police commands one could ever imagine. The riot police on coffee-break one street from the Eternal Burning Car, were ordered to NOT do anything, they were sitting there for a very long time.
But anyone with common sense would have seen the street was chaotic, but if a firetruck or water-cannon came in, people would move. It was basically like a bad-joke out there, it was not Detroit burning. But since the ORDERS were coming from somewhere else, they are responsible. Whoever ORDERED the police and firetrucks to stay away, is responsible for terrible negligence. If an explosion caught those old Queen St bldgs on fire, the street could have been burned down. Did that police commander want Queen St to burn down? The senior police commander who gave those orders for the fire-dept to stay away, should be charged with very serious negligence and dereliction of duty, and sent before a judge.
After seeing almost everything that happened, its one of two conclusions. Either the police wanted to allow vandalism by having ZERO police for hours downtown, then later attacking people with full-force riot squads to spark little riots...or the commander was in Barrie giving orders from a computer screen, with no clue of what was going on in the local area.
Whoever sent those endless lines of Robocop riot police to Queens Park was almost a madman. They could have fought a war with those lines of riot-police. It was overkill by about 20x. As mentioned in my other post, on Monday June 28, there were more people in Queens Park today, and NOTHING happened, as people were not being attacked by lines of riot-cops. Whoever gave that order to assemble like WWIII at Queens Park should also be investigated. He ordered the riot-police to attack attack attack, and sent in the horses, shooting rubber bullets then denying it, etc. The police commander who ordered that attack is either completely incompetent, or wanted to spark more violence.
As I said in another post, they could have ended it, by just holding the line, and trying to communicate with the people there. Let the people cool down a bit. Put John Tesh music on the sound cannon, that would have cleared the park. But the police did the exact opposite. Their commander, some GI-Joe wannabe military general, wanted to attack the Zulus, with 5 lines of defense. It was one of the stupidest things I've seen in my life. What does it accomplish? It triggers the flight-fight response in the crowd, and when the police attack constantly for hours, they are whipping the crowd into a frenzy. They should be calming people down, as much as possible. But the police commander decided to attack and make people more upset, and then they just move to the next area, and start all over. It was beyond idiocy, it was more police incompetence, or the desire to create more problems, or maybe its just testosterone running amok in the police commanders veins?
Queens Park was supposed to be a "free speech zone", and many people there thought they were safe on the grass. The free speech zone was trampled by riot police and horse's hooves and rubber bullets.
Why didn't that incompetent police commander not try to calm things down, and hold the line? Who was he? Was he even there, or was he watching from a TV screen somewhere? Toronto is not Beruit. They could have calmed things down, and just been patient.
I actually had a moment to question a police commander at the police demo Monday night June 28, and his answers were not accurate to the facts, not even close. I asked him why there were no police on Yonge for so many hours, as the few dozens vandals ran around. He said all his officers were "deployed" and that is why Yonge St was left unprotected for hours. Can you believe that, when they had thousands and thousands of them, no where to be seen, behind some fence.
I asked him why it took so long. He said they could not get around. I told him I could walk anywhere in minutes. So that was a lie by the commander, it was easy to get around, there was no traffic, just empty streets.
He actually said I personally should have arrested the vandals, as a citizen. This is the attitude of a head of police security? That is his plan and attitude, let the citizens arrest vandals. He was quite contemptuous, welcome to reality. That is what your senior police commander thinks of the merchants on Yonge St, to defend their stores with baseball bats?
What a joke. They should have moved to contain any vandalism right away, not leave the city core. The only rational conclusion is that they police bosses decided to let the vandals trash downtown for 2 hours, to keep them away from their fence, and to justify their billions.
As N. Klein said tonight, they sent media releases out as the police car was burning, saying that justified their billions spent. The fact is they let it burn forever, so everyone could get a photo of it.
The police also attacked the crowds with full knowledge that the attacks would provoke the crowd further. Obviously, the police big-wigs wanted riots to justify all the billions, so they deliberately provoked the crowds, instead of containment and trying to calm things down.
http://rabble.ca/babble/activism/protest-police-state-tactics-toronto-to...
I guess the concept of 'community policing' is now out the window thanks to this fiasco?
Is anyone calling for Blair's resignation? He appears to be the chief architect of the police presence that failed to prevent rioting and actually engaged in it. He claimed, wrongly, that the police did not fire rubber bullets indicating he has lost command of his own force. He called journalists and peaceful protests radicals and violent extremists. And he went to the province to impose a secret law that stripped citizens of their rights, secretly, and without telling the mayor. In fact, why isn't he fired?
Groggo, true I only saw a small window of the events. It was Saturday afternoon just when things started to turn violent. What I saw was very heavy and organized police (and riot squad) presence. I saw them practically "allow" a few scrawny masked Black Bloc elements to thrash Queen street. They just stood there and acted as if this is nothing that concerns them. They outnumbered the thugs by many folds. I've never seen anything like this and I felt unsafe because if these masked thugs with sticks decided to attack us, it didn't look like the police was going do anything to stop them. They had a free hand to damage whatever they wanted in full view of many dozens law enforcement officers. This was a different Toronto from the one I've lived in for decades. Our police have never behaved this way before.
Here is a video of violence on Yonge st, in it a resident single handidly tries to make a citizen's arrest of a vandal while another is heard calling 911. All the while hundreds of police officers were close by in side streets just standing there.
http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/the-mayhem/#clip318869
Miller said he didn't know about the new 'regulation'? Only the cops knew and not the mayor?
You bet. More than that, it is a war time law. It was originally passed in 1939 to protect police stations, court houses, etc ... (this is available from Real News interviewing a prominent Toronto lawyer), from possible foreign agents. But, the Liberal use of the law is to say it can be applied to any building, or buildings, and be applied against loyal citizens engageing in a lawful activity. The Liberals and the police have applied their interpretation as a provincial form of martial law. People regardless of their politics or take on the Black Bloc should be both angry and frightened by this expansion of authoritarian power to the province. Even if you agree McGuinty applied it as intended and lawfully, which I sincerely doubt is the case, what confidence would you have in another Mike Harris?
Cruisin' Turtle: Thanks for your comments.
As I've said before on these boards, the tactics of the cops on this weekend reek to high heaven.
Two cop cars left abandoned on Queen Street (WITHOUT gasoline), so hooligans (or agents provocateurs) could stomp them and light them afire. Nowhere could we see a single intervening cop, despite 200 of them being just around the corner on Spadina blocking access to protesters who wanted to advance south.
Hooligans (or agents provocateurs) run unobstructed on lower Yonge Street, smashing windows. This is all well within the perimeter of police presence. Again, not a single act of police intervention.
Hooligans (or agents provocateurs) run unobstructed along overcrowded Queen St. between Univesity and Spadina Avenues, smashing windows. Hundreds of cops were in the area, but they mysteriously missed it.
Hooligans (or agents provocateurs) trash an abandoned police car (WITHOUT gasoline) and set it afire at King and Bay, barely 500 metres from the very CENTRE of the G20 meetings. Again, not a cop in sight.
With an alleged sophisticated intelligence system, the police (Bill Blair himself) said the 'Black Bloc' had been monitored weeks if not months before this event. Yet, when they showed up in town, the police seemed powerless to find them or stop them. How is this possible?
Sorry to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but what choice do I have? I can only conclude that the cops sanctioned these episodes; they looked the other way when they wanted to look the other way, acted when they wanted to act. The reasons behind all this would seem to be obvious: (a) to discredit left-wing dissent as the work of crazies; and (b) to make a pathetic attempt to justify the ridiculous cost of this even-more ridiculous summit.
how about both in a win win scenario?
which is why i disagree with the idea of vandalism, even if it is against murderous multinationals. It just gets used to confirm the things the right says about protests/protesters by giving them an easy out. focus on the vandalism and all the other messages get pushed to the side.
firebombing banks, breaking windows. it's all covered by insurance and ultimately has no effect. judging by police actions had it not been for the vandalism, there would (i think there still is) grounds for serious condemnation and investigation of police violence and lawlessness. Even though we all know that pursuing a petty charge of mischief or vandalism is no grounds for beating, shooting at, trampling and gassing innocent people and suspending the right to peaceful assembly, mainstream canada will not hesitate to write it off as due to the vandals.
One upside is that all those caught up in this bullshit, and everyone they tell about it will become more suspicious of police tactics and the power of the state. Everyone got a first hand look at state power this weekend and that does have an effect.
That being said, vandalism such as that carried out by Sea Shepherd is much more focused and legitimate, and still has my support because it is being employed to prevent violent/illegal activity. To me that's an example of the tactic used in proper context.
Concordia student journalists allege, in legal terms, sexual assualts, sexual intimidation, abuse, and denial of rights by G20 cops:
http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/2698
So let me get this straight. Our right to peacefully assemble is under direct assault by the Harper government and the RCMP. A process we are paying for. At the tune of a billion plus dollars. To protect a pack of criminals who are waging war on the Earth's population. The largest roundup in modern Canadian history has occurred, confining people to animal-like cages where they are harrassed and intimidated. Defenseless people have been viciously assaulted by the hundreds if not thousands.
And the NDP is whining about broken windows?
I usually stay out of the NDP threads because I sympathsize with both sides. But this is really the last straw. If the NDP can't stand up for the basic right of Canadians to protest without fear of violent assault then I am done with the party. At least until it finds new leadership.
Have you ever been hunted by horsemen? Pretty primal, I’ll tell you. There are women on the beasts, too, like trussed valkyries. The policemen in the front had clearly seen that they were attacking a small child and they came on at full speed anyway without the slightest warning. I just couldn’t get this out of my head. They had looked right at my little boy and attacked him. Seconds later a man went down under a horse and I thought he was killed but he came up staggering on his feet—I know for sure he will have two paw prints on his back because I saw the horse double-touch him. I think the horses were not as vicious as their masters and this one was just trying to get off the man while the other riders shoved the poor beast from behind. The horse probably saved this guy’s life.
http://counterpunch.org/thomson06282010.html
Some stats that may explain police action of allowing few vandals to burn police cars and smash store windows:
1999 WTO Conference in Seattle: 40,000 demonstrators and 1,750 police officers.
2010 G20 Summit in Toronto: 10,000 demonstrators and 19,000 police officers.
Obviously the police needed to justify the staggering $1 billion overspend.
I fully support a complete public inquiry into the G20 Summit especially its security and civil rights abuses but also its lack of producing anything truly effective from a global public policy standpoint.
Is there a petition somewhere that we could sign? :)
I heard first hand some of these horror stories - directly from the people who were released from the detention facility. One man was tazered (he had a heart condition), his face clearly showing bruises. Another man was beaten - he had a gauze covering an eye. I asked him what happened. The police had beaten him before taking him to the detention centre. He was black (I mention this because young black men appeared to be targeting disproportionately). A young girl was arrested for singing. The young man we drove home was simply taking pictures. Others came out who were beaten ( I have the pictures of their injuries).People were discussing the fact there were no charges brought forward. Some were begging to be charged so they could phone a lawyer. Others were left in horrible conditions, tied up so tightly their arms were scarred. This is Canada under Harper. He must be held accountable. The police who were involved need to lose their jobs.
I am appalled at the idiot citizens who sit there and scream about how the protesters deserved it (this is frighteningly common thing to hear) or scream about how great a job the police did. What do I possibly say back to that? I am so pissed off! Mayor Miller has greatly disapointed me.
I did hear from one of the people detained that there was already a lawyer involved with a class action law suit. I think our government and the police should be held accountable - but they won't be.
Here is a link to the facebook group, Canadians Demanding a Public Inquiry into Toronto G20
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=135629036463012
Groggo's post accurately documents Saturday's sequence of events . I hope somebody ends up with a good documentary film out of all of this.
Daveshaver, there is a petition.. of sort. You can email the mayor and ask him to care for his city more than he cares for his political career. If he did he will call for an independent review of police action. First of police standing by indifferently drinking bottled water while the streets burn before their eyes. And second for police taking too aggressive an action against peaceful protesters the next day. Where was the action when it was needed, eh!
There are municipal elections later this year and if the mayor wants to continue to portray himself as a populist he must do the right thing. All we can do is ask [email protected]
Thank you for posting that link! If Big Media weren't so busy watching those protest pron cars burning over and over again, they would see these supposedly "little things." Montebello redux?
Add to that article a video of a "black bloc" protester being sheltered behind police lines (video from Toronto, not Montebello).
Do you have a link for those numbers? 19,000 cops?
I've hear 10K, 14K, and 19K ... here's a link that says 19K http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100627/ap_on_re_ca/cn_world_summit_protests but I don't know for sure those numbers are accurate.
Here's what I believe has happened, and it's been stated by others too; it was a one-two strategy on the part of the security apparatus to justify the massive spending on security. It was a politicial spectacle of grand proportions for Canada, all of it was goon theatre. One... leave some cars out, "protect the fence", and get some provocateurs to rile things, get the few flakes amongst the crowd going. Who cares if some shops get damaged, the psychological effect of the crime on business leads to an acceptence, long-term, of their (cops) legitimacy, it's a win for them. And Two, on Sunday, they get to have their fun, play with their toys, probably laughing about it amongst themselves. They were given carte blance, basically, by a timid McGuinty, they knew their 1 billion dollars was under scrutiny big-time, they know "the Harper's" love the Law and Order stuff, and they realized if they could control the media message from/for the most uncritical era in mainstream journalism this country has probably ever seen, and they did that. And those in charge of the operations took full advantage. The protesters and everyone else basically got played huge. And I bet there are lot'sof giggles and bum-slaps from all levels of enforcement still going on privately.
or I wildly speculate anyway. edited for grammar-bammer-slammer.
Another female journalist reports sexual threats and assualts by police including threats of "gang bangs".
Video: http://vimeo.com/12925239
The empire strikes back!
And yet some people want us to respect women who become part of their oppressors...pox on their efforts to be "the man".