Question for our Liberal friends: After what you have seen in Ottawa the past 2 months will you still vote Liberal in October?

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Question for our Liberal friends: After what you have seen in Ottawa the past 2 months will you still vote Liberal in October?

Just curious, with no malice intended for our Liberal friends.

Now that Canadians have had the usually closed doors in Ottawa opened on how Justin and the Liberals function, will you support them in the upcoming election on October 21, 2019?



 course they will, they like Ford and Kenney supporters don't care about corruption. 


Cat got your tongue?


Who on this board considers themselves a  Liberal? 

Sean in Ottawa

No sense being rude: it is better to ask the question of why.

There are some good reasons to explain this:

1) Each person chooses the news they want that confirms their biases. This is true across the spectrum but it makes it difficult to break through with a concern.

2) Liberals may still feel that their party is cleaner or no worse than the others (see point one). There is such a flood of scandal that what-aboutism is an effective defence.

3) Liberals may be somewhat immune to understanding the seriousness of the scandal: money was not stolen in a simple sense. Canadians would need a fairly good understanding of civics to grasp the seriousness of the separation between judiciary and executive.

4) There may be some contrasting scandal fatigue -- some come up from the US. There is the perception of a new normal that is a very low bar.

5) Liberals may feel so confident that their party is the only reasonable one that they can forgive them almost anything. Again this is a problem that exists particularly on the centre and left as they feel justified in the means if it means preventing Conservatives from hurting people. In my life I have learned to be wary about the level to which people who ought to be allies justify ignoring things. Please let's not pretend it does not happen in NDP circles becuase I have enough stories to say otherwise. I raise this not to excuse Liberals but to show you the inertia in political opinion from belief in a "greater cause."

6) Many Liberals feel that the NDP or Greens are not worthy of support for the reason that they are too extreme. They also object to Conservatives strongly. They fear anything other than Liberals.

7) Many Liberals believe the NDP, even if it is ahead of them can never win. They think a strong NDP means a strong Conservative government. Their terror of the Conservatives is real and it is leading them to be in denial about the true state of their party.

8) Many Canadians hold racist feelings towards Indigenous peoples and actually react against reconciliation. Not all of these people are in the Conservative party. These people will take any excuse to believe Trudeau over an Indigenous woman.

9) There remains ocnsiderable sexism such that Trudeau despite all this is still liked by some ofver a strong woman. Not all of these are in the Conservative party.

10) Many people have invested too much in their fandom of Trudeau to want to believe this -- active denial is a thing and it works.

11) Many people dislike all politicians and assume the same of all of them. They may or may not pay close attention.

12) Many people may think that all this is opportunism by the other parties and that this is exaggerated.

13) Some may actually believe the line that this was about jobs. Others may hedge their bets just in case it might be true, even though they suspect it is not.

14) Many are paying no attention becuase they never vote anyway -- or if they had in the past they see no reason to now.

15) Some may feel grateful for what the Liberals have done for them -- whether these perceptions are real or false varies.


Those concerned about Trudeau's behavious, may want to consider which items on this list could be mitigated. This is more practical than screaming at people to stop voting Liberal.

You cannot assume that everyone voting Liberal is stupid or mean. You might want to examine their reasons with a view to persuasion rather than attack.

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

Who on this board considers themselves a  Liberal? 

Or a Trudeau voter or whatever might bring them to cast a ballot that way. I remember you splitting this hair in 2015 very finely.

I know there are a couple here but I will not call them out since most know who I am referring to.

Then there are those who profess not to be but who still find the time to defend the indefensible Liberal line.

I am going to assume that the Liberals who are here may be somewhat shaken by this. A direct attack on them may have them circle the wagons rather than continue the consideration.

I also can point out that there are many here who are also concerned about the NDP and its direction and not all that solid either. With this Liberal scandal, this issue may be buried for now, but the problems remain.

Smugness is not persuasive.


Pondering wrote:

Who on this board considers themselves a  Liberal? 

Who would vote only for the Liberals? I think, depending on the circumstances, many here are open to voting for different political parties or not voting at all.


I've never voted Liberal in my life. But after seeing this thread, reading some of the comments, and thinking things over, I'm beginning to consider, come next election, possibly voting for


I think your list is excellent Sean. I don't think I was splitting hair in 2015. I got cannabis legalization from Trudeau. Looking back now I would have made the same decision because I think Mulcair would have been a worse PM than Trudeau has been and he would have ruined NDP chances for at least a decade. I cannot see him dealing with Trump. He wouldn't have bought a pipeline so that would be good. I don't know that he would have done any better negotiating CETA or new NAFTA. The no deficit promise would have had to be broken big-time cementing the NDP's reputation as economically naive at best. 

Now I am supporting Singh because I don't see that Trudeau has anything more to offer me and I am much less concerned about a Conservative win. 

In no way do I now identify as an NDPer even though I tentatively see myself voting for them in the next 3 elections. 

I actively reject the label NDP as emphatically as I do the label Liberal. In both cases they sign me on to a whole bunch of views I don't share. 

Politically I am a dedicated pragmatist. In my view governments are like a company we hire to provide services on our behalf and make decisions that can only be made on a country level. They are supposed to manage banks and corporations and international relations for the benefit of the majority of  Canada's citizens. They should be looking to the future to prepare us for it as a country and individuals. 

By that criteria many people would say the Conservatives fit but to me they do not because their policies are not best for Canada economically, socially or internationally. The NDP and Liberals are always better in that regard so my choice always lies between them. 

Who I support doesn't even dictate my vote because  I am a pragmatic voter. It depends what is happening in my riding and what the numbers are nationally. I might vote for who I actually support, or I might vote strategically, or I might protest vote. For example in the recent byelection I voted NDP and hoped the NDP would win but if they didn't it would be the Liberals anyway and even if the Conservatives or Bloq won it would make no practical difference. I wanted to express support for Singh. Had that not been the case I might have protest voted.  For example voted for the marijuana party to show I still wasn't satisfied, or voted Green to send the message that the environment is important to me. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Yup...It beats the alternative.....I'd vote for an onion ring,a swandwich or Charles Manson if I had to stop Scheer... I hope Bernier's party eats up a generous portion of the CPC vote