Reject the election. Don’t mark your ballot!

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Fidel

Pff! ShhhInnocent

Slumberjack

The act of staying home is at least a beginning to a more valid political statement that these times desperately calls for, more so than the exercise in pretence and validation that the polls have become.  There is no quorum even required of us so long as they can manufacture legitimacy by mobilizing their friends and cronies to shore up the facade.

theatlanticaparty theatlanticaparty's picture

Reject the Election. Hand in a blank ballot!
Visit our new website and find out more on how to send a clear positive message this election.
http://www.rejecttheelection.ca

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

You know what?...I don't care,don't vote..spoil your ballot..whatever.

But when your apathy and stupidity (yes,stupidity because by not voting or spoiling your vote,you are,in fact,voting for Stephen Harper)leads to a government rife with policies and actions you find despicable,undemocratic or this time a policy actually directly screws YOU deep and hard,you can't complain...YOU made it happen.

2 more points...Politicalnick..No..I'm not apologizing for the 'shut the fuck up' comment...If it bothered you,tough..tant pis and quelle dommage.

I've been reading comments in countless threads here for almost a year and a half......People are so passionate about 'progressive' politics and let's get together and things must change.

THEN you start championing a 'protest' to spoil your ballots are not vote?...Yeah,that's real progressive.

Hence,if you do not vote or if you spoil your ballot then you should retire from active political discussions or buy a Tory membership card.

I guarantee that the moment Harper is enthroned as the new Shah of Reagenistan,you'll all be back to talk about progressive politics and how you all hope for an NDP government...how to bring down Harper in 5 YEARS...blah,blah,blah.

If you don't vote or you spoil your ballot,then you've all been talking out your ass all this time.

And you've lost your legitimacy..You have nothing to say,unless it's 'I helped elect Harper'...Hence,STFU.

Which brings me to my second point...Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.

I suppose if only 20% of eligible voters turnout that the collective apathy will magically spawn the NDP to a majority government.

If you think this 'protest' will be effective...Hmm...you may be right...We'll get the government we 'deserve'

You people advocating a volunteer indifference are actually advocating a volunteer dictatorship..And Stephen Harper will LOVE you for it.

Good luck with your counter productive and STUPID protest.

VanGoghs Ear

if this is coming from a progressive pov than it's basically an admission of defeat - we can't win, so why even try and then pretend that our inaction is really an action.

 

MegB

alan smithee wrote:

You know what?...I don't care,don't vote..spoil your ballot..whatever.

But when your apathy and stupidity (yes,stupidity because by not voting or spoiling your vote,you are,in fact,voting for Stephen Harper)leads to a government rife with policies and actions you find despicable,undemocratic or this time a policy actually directly screws YOU deep and hard,you can't complain...YOU made it happen.

2 more points...Politicalnick..No..I'm not apologizing for the 'shut the fuck up' comment...If it bothered you,tough..tant pis and quelle dommage.

I've been reading comments in countless threads here for almost a year and a half......People are so passionate about 'progressive' politics and let's get together and things must change.

THEN you start championing a 'protest' to spoil your ballots are not vote?...Yeah,that's real progressive.

Hence,if you do not vote or if you spoil your ballot then you should retire from active political discussions or buy a Tory membership card.

I guarantee that the moment Harper is enthroned as the new Shah of Reagenistan,you'll all be back to talk about progressive politics and how you all hope for an NDP government...how to bring down Harper in 5 YEARS...blah,blah,blah.

If you don't vote or you spoil your ballot,then you've all been talking out your ass all this time.

And you've lost your legitimacy..You have nothing to say,unless it's 'I helped elect Harper'...Hence,STFU.

Which brings me to my second point...Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.

I suppose if only 20% of eligible voters turnout that the collective apathy will magically spawn the NDP to a majority government.

If you think this 'protest' will be effective...Hmm...you may be right...We'll get the government we 'deserve'

You people advocating a volunteer indifference are actually advocating a volunteer dictatorship..And Stephen Harper will LOVE you for it.

Good luck with your counter productive and STUPID protest.

Your hostile, disrespectful and insulting attitude towards others is in violation of babble policy.  You don't want to apologize, fine.  Keep it up and you'll be on vacation from babble for a bit.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Hostile and disrespectful,eh?

Calling this protest stupid violates babble policy?

Telling people they won't be able to protest or complain about a Harper majority because this protest will only help elect him is against babble policy?

Trying to get people to give their heads a shake and vote is against babble policy?

Whatever...I still maintain that apathy is not progressive..If you can prove otherwise,I MIGHT take back what I said.

Merci.

Sineed

Between this thread and the one promoting yet another lost-cause left-wing party, I see a Con majority in the making.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Sorry, Rebecca, but until I hear of or figure out a way to explain to someone that they're being brain-dead-fucking-stupid in a polite fashion, I'll have to back alan smithee on this one.

ETA

Just to be clear: "We're activists, so let's do nothing" is brain-dead-fucking-stupid.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

 

And just to clarify another issue.

I'm convinced that this 'protest' is in reality a Conservative campaign to sabotage babble...We all know the Cons do EVERYTHING the U.S. does...especially the underhanded,slimy stuff and this thread was probably put up by election provacateurs.

U.S. Develops Social Media Propaganda Software

I think we all should be VERY careful with shady attempts of influence...Especially when the message tries to influence action by INACTION and convince people to do things against their own best interests willfully.

Cheeseburger

As it happens, there is a tradition of spoiling ballots. It's the way that some people say "none of these characters are what I want to represent me." It's a political statement.

It doesn't make sense to spoil a ballot instead of voting for a candidate you actually think would do a decent job. But for those people who would stay home on election day because they find the options all disillusioning, going to the polls and spoilng a ballot is a good way of saying all the politicians in this country need to do better.  

 

MegB

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Sorry, Rebecca, but until I hear of or figure out a way to explain to someone that they're being brain-dead-fucking-stupid in a polite fashion, I'll have to back alan smithee on this one.

You're trying to tell me you can't find the right words to express yourself?  That's such a limp excuse.  Get real.

Quote:

ETA

Just to be clear: "We're activists, so let's do nothing" is brain-dead-fucking-stupid.

Oh, that's quite clear, and so not the point.  If you can't find a way to express your opinions without slagging others, express criticism without taking a giant dump on those you criticize, with the entirety of the language at your disposal, what are you doing using a medium where written language is the only means of expression?

I don't buy it.  At all.

MegB

alan smithee wrote:

Hostile and disrespectful,eh?

Calling this protest stupid violates babble policy?

Telling people they won't be able to protest or complain about a Harper majority because this protest will only help elect him is against babble policy?

Trying to get people to give their heads a shake and vote is against babble policy?

Whatever...I still maintain that apathy is not progressive..If you can prove otherwise,I MIGHT take back what I said.

Merci.

Stop trying to turn this into some attack on your ideas.  This isn't about the position you take on this issue, it's about how you express it, and personalize it in a nasty, hotile and disrespectful way.  Enough already.

plasmarules

If those 90,000+ rejected ballots would clearly mark GREEN this time around, we might actually see some change that would benefit Canadians.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

How many of your suggestions are effective on their own, without a government that can be influenced?

Freedom 55

alan smithee wrote:

Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.

 

Just off the top of my head:

start a copwatch

organize a teach-in

go on strike

support a strike

support a land claims struggle

support a campaign for migrant justice

organize a boycott

organize a divestment campaign

start a co-op

take an anti-oppression workshop

organize to ensure that women can access abortions without being impeded/harassed

make sure that youth have access to sexual health information, condoms, and contraception in your community

support gay-straight alliances in your local schools

volunteer at a homework club/after-school program

organize childcare for activist gatherings in your community

collect books for prisoners

start an infoshop

organize to confront and disrupt local hate groups

start a tenants union

start a bus-riders union

get involved in welfare/disability/immigration casework

start a community garden

start a food collective

create a blog/zine/newspaper

organize a social justice book club/film night

join a campaign against war profiteers

support war resisters

organize a block party/potluck/picnic/barbecue

be aware of your privilege

Sineed

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

How many of your suggestions are effective on their own, without a government that can be influenced?

Cogent point, LTJ.  A progressive movement doesn't need gov't sanction/support for every tiny little thing.

That said, what we really need is electoral reform.  Generally speaking, community activism is always a good thing, but there'll be even more things to protest against and more people in dire straits if the Cons win a majority.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Freedom 55 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.

 

Just off the top of my head:

start a copwatch

organize a teach-in

go on strike

support a strike

support a land claims struggle

support a campaign for migrant justice

organize a boycott

organize a divestment campaign

start a co-op

take an anti-oppression workshop

organize to ensure that women can access abortions without being impeded/harassed

make sure that youth have access to sexual health information, condoms, and contraception in your community

support gay-straight alliances in your local schools

volunteer at a homework club/after-school program

organize childcare for activist gatherings in your community

collect books for prisoners

start an infoshop

organize to confront and disrupt local hate groups

start a tenants union

start a bus-riders union

get involved in welfare/disability/immigration casework

start a community garden

start a food collective

create a blog/zine/newspaper

organize a social justice book club/film night

join a campaign against war profiteers

support war resisters

organize a block party/potluck/picnic/barbecue

be aware of your privilege

 

That's quite a list...I guess we could also add communities gathering around a camp fire singing 'This land is your land' and corporations giving people a livable wage out of the goodness of their hearts,too.

Maybe if I think hard enough,I can stop myself from aging too.

The best of intentions do not make a difference.

I can't magically live like a socialist and in turn my country following suit.

I can't believe that here at babble,of all the other places discussing politics in this country,that spoiling our ballots or staying home is even being discussed.

Unbelievable.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I think that West has fetishized the vote to some extent, at the expense of democracy. Democracy is a much more robust social action that cannot be relegated to a single pen stroke once every four years. I also feel like there is a fantasy amongst electoral fetishists that if people who don't vote voted, they'd vote for the opposition, or in this case, the NDP. I have seen little convincing evidence (and I include the story from last election which suggested if young people voted, we'd have a Liberal minority) that shows our parliament would be significantly different with a 100% voter turnout.

And I think that those who disagree with me--who are welcome to do so, obviously--should at least acknowledge that such an opinion exists, and has reason to exist. It would make for a more productive discussion.

Freedom 55

alan smithee wrote:

Freedom 55 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.

 

Just off the top of my head:

start a copwatch

organize a teach-in

go on strike

support a strike

support a land claims struggle

support a campaign for migrant justice

organize a boycott

organize a divestment campaign

start a co-op

take an anti-oppression workshop

organize to ensure that women can access abortions without being impeded/harassed

make sure that youth have access to sexual health information, condoms, and contraception in your community

support gay-straight alliances in your local schools

volunteer at a homework club/after-school program

organize childcare for activist gatherings in your community

collect books for prisoners

start an infoshop

organize to confront and disrupt local hate groups

start a tenants union

start a bus-riders union

get involved in welfare/disability/immigration casework

start a community garden

start a food collective

create a blog/zine/newspaper

organize a social justice book club/film night

join a campaign against war profiteers

support war resisters

organize a block party/potluck/picnic/barbecue

be aware of your privilege

 

That's quite a list.

Thanks. I think so too.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'd just like NDP supporters,which make up 95% of everyone here,to explain how the NDP will ever make a government,or even exceed the 17% they've been stuck at for 20 years,if you don't vote.

Really?....Let's cut off our noses to spite our faces?

If the consensus is spoil your ballot or stay home,what was the point of all the threads,columns,radio shows and videos at rabble for the past 2 years?

Fidel

alan smithee wrote:
Maybe if I think hard enough,I can stop myself from aging too.

All I can say is that they must really like the stoogeaucracy in Ottawa, Alan. Enough not to vote against them even once as many times as the NDP has in the House of Commons since 2006.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Freedom 55 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Freedom 55 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Freedom55...Change will never happen without voting..Please enlighten everybody with what exactly will change Canadian politics.

 

Just off the top of my head:

 

be aware of your privilege

 

That's quite a list.

Thanks. I think so too.

 

I can twist words around too.

Fidel

If they want to lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on election day, it's up to them, Alan. Some babblers have come to accept that they will be walked upon regardless of what they do on election day, and it's likely they live in one of the more than 200 "safe ridings" across Canada. Those people are merely guilty of voting for the wrong party, or of living in the wrong place in Canada and therefore shall not be represented politically due to a mathematically absurd electoral system. The same electoral system the NDP wants putting out to pasture in exchange for a modern one.

Meanwhile foot soldiers in the struggle like you and I will work our buns off to get the vote out on election day. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

BTW,Freedom 55...

If you can't get people off their ass to vote,how in the name of fudge are you going to get them to do or get involved in any of your grandiose ideas?

A general strike?.....From a country of people too lazy to vote?

Wake up from your slumber,my friend.

Sineed

Catchfire wrote:

I think that West has fetishized the vote to some extent, at the expense of democracy. Democracy is a much more robust social action that cannot be relegated to a single pen stroke once every four years. I also feel like there is a fantasy amongst electoral fetishists that if people who don't vote voted, they'd vote for the opposition, or in this case, the NDP. I have seen little convincing evidence (and I include the story from last election which suggested if young people voted, we'd have a Liberal minority) that shows our parliament would be significantly different with a 100% voter turnout.

And I think that those who disagree with me--who are welcome to do so, obviously--should at least acknowledge that such an opinion exists, and has reason to exist. It would make for a more productive discussion.

For those of us who favour electoral participation, we realize that democracy is more than marking the ballot every few years.  What we're on about is the futility of doing the opposite.

People are free to spoil their ballot, then go home and write a 5,000 word essay in their blog explaining their decision.  Everybody else in the country will be, like, tl;dr.  And Harper will have his majority, the mask comes off, and he'll be free to destroy the environment, muzzle scientists, recriminalize abortion, ban SSM, build more prisons, privatize healthcare, cut taxes to the rich and services to the poor, mandatory minimums for all crimes, etc etc etc.

Fidel

 The good news is that there is a cure for E.D. The bad news is that electoral dysfunction and political impotence in Ottawa go hand-in-glove.

The struggle for democracy in Canada continues.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Fidel wrote:

If they want to lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on election day, it's up to them, Alan. Some babblers have come to accept that they will be walked upon regardless of what they do on election day, and it's likely they live in one of the more than 200 "safe ridings" across Canada. Those people are merely guilty of voting for the wrong party, or of living in the wrong place in Canada and therefore shall not be represented politically due to a mathematically absurd electoral system. The same electoral system the NDP wants putting out to pasture in exchange for a modern one.

Meanwhile foot soldiers in the struggle like you and I will work our buns off to get the vote out on election day. 

 

This idea of not voting is something I'd expect from an MSM comment board--not here.

WE stay home and all the Conservatives show up (as they always do),Harper gets his majority and everything we all have ben disgusted with for the past 5 years turns into something so despicable that it will be too late to do anything about it.

This election is VERY important.

If people only had the choice between Harper or Ignatieff,then they would be 100% correct to stay home.

But we don't have to....Vote for the NDP...Vote Green...Vote Bloc...Vote Rhino Party...It doesn't matter.

If all the apathetic voters showed up and voted in droves against the Liberals and Conservatives,those parties would become stronger and are voices would become louder.

Apathy is counter productive and cowardly and leaves people without a right to complain or protest.

Harper wins his majority,how far are those protests going to get?....One of his star candidates is Julian Fantino who wants to re-write the Charter.

Protests?...You'll probably end up as tennants in one of the new 'super prisons'

WAKE UP!

Fidel

First they came for our oil and gas,  and the environment, Alan. 

Here are some additional progressive activities listed by the Waterloo chapter of [url=http://www.fairvote.ca/fr/node/314]Fair Vote Canada:[/url]

  • Outreach to organizations (see below)
  • High school/elementary school kits
  • Educate ourselves PR (through talks, study groups...)
  • Send articles to newspapers and other media.
  • Create our own newsletter.
  • Influence local community leaders about PR.
  • Contact the local riding associations and MP/MPP offices (via
    visits, letters, etc.)
  • Start a petition campaign.
  • Clarify the expectations of a new voting system (keeping in mind
    that FVC does not endorse any single system).
  • Contact the Citizens' Assembly (is that allowed?) and research
    the community input element in the Citizens' Assembly process.
  • Study election systems in other countries -- both good and bad.
  • Send direct mail door-to-door. (This needs money.)
  • Create a resource listing with articles, information, and case
    studies.
  • Get on local lecture series (e.g. with the KPL)
  • Take organizing to the street: malls, community centres, soupkitchens... 

The struggle for democracy continues in our Northern Puerto Rico with a few homeless Polar bears and some pipelines running south.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Thing is..those are good ideas...PR and delivering the message to everyone and people getting involved in their communities and protesting etc...

A Harper majority will be a catastrophe and knock us back socially to the days of the abolitionist movement of 1907-1933.

Once we're kicked back into the Stone Age,the progressive movement will probably take a generation just to get back to where we were socially in the 1950's.

I say we do everything in our power to prevent a Harper majority and THEN organize,protest,petition and take to the streets and communities.

genstrike

wage zombie wrote:

genstrike wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.

By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?

Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.

So, your position is that we should always give support to the lesser of the evils, regardless of how evil they are?

Freedom 55

alan smithee wrote:

BTW,Freedom 55...

If you can't get people off their ass to vote,how in the name of fudge are you going to get them to do or get involved in any of your grandiose ideas?

 

Admittedly, yes, the ideas I listed in response to your question, "Do you honestly believe change is possible without voting?", require more effort than walking to the polling station and marking an 'x' on a ballot every few years, but I would hardly characterize anything I mentioned as "grandiose".

People can, and do, get off their asses to do all of these things because they see the value in them.

 

Fidel

genstrike wrote:

wage zombie wrote:

genstrike wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.

By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?

Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.

So, your position is that we should always give support to the lesser of the evils, regardless of how evil they are?

 

Yes, even if the lesser evil's federal platform plank on funding post-secondary ed is supported by the national students union. I say bite the bullet and vote for that party which has voted against the corrupt stoogeaucracy in Parliament more times than any other party. That is unless what you really want is more of the same neoliberal agenda emanating from Ottawa and soaring tuition fees as a result of provincial governments hamstrung by starvation level transfer payments from Ottawa.

genstrike

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Just to be clear: "We're activists, so let's do nothing" is brain-dead-fucking-stupid.

I haven't said that.  I haven't even said I'm not going to vote - I've just said that I've decided to only vote for candidates or parties that I actually like - which seems to somehow be a very controversial position on the left.  I actually find it curious that the response is that one should always vote for the lesser of the evils even if you don't feel they represent your interests or opinions, because that same point is used to argue for strategic voting, which is also extremely unpopular on babble.

And I think democracy is much more than the very individualist (and almost consumerist) act of making one stroke of a pen every few years.  If one chooses not to make that stroke of a pen because they are unable to put that stroke of a pen next to someone or something that they feel represents their interests, that in no way renders illegitimate the political actions that they do on every other day.

wage zombie

genstrike wrote:

wage zombie wrote:

genstrike wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Or,after the election,shut the fuck up..Your opinions are no longer valid and they no longer matter.

By voting for a party which doesn't represent my opinions or my interests, doesn't that also render them null and void, and in a more concrete way?

Not if some parties represent your interests even less than others.

So, your position is that we should always give support to the lesser of the evils, regardless of how evil they are?

I made no statement about who anyone "should support".  I said that if some parties represent your interests less than others (which would be a matter of your opinion), then voting for the lesser of the evils does not render your opinions null and void.

If you feel that all the parties represent your interests equally poorly, then I agree, there is no way within the current system to make your opinion matter.  If your opinion is that some parties represent your interests even less than others, then voting allows you to register that opinion.

I agree that it is an unsatisfying situation.  I don't make the rules and if I did I'd change 'em.

I wouldn't expect anyone to support positions or parties that they see as evil.

Fidel

I think we give concern trolls too much attention in these threads. They refer to the NDP as an "evil party", one that has no federal record in power to examine in order to determine evilness. The very corrupt two-party stoogeaucracy is all they've ever known in Ottawa. I'll bet they spend zero time on Liberal-Tory friendly discussion forums discouraging them from voting.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Fidel wrote:

I think we give concern trolls too much attention in these threads. They refer to the NDP as an "evil party", one that has no federal record in power to examine in order to determine evilness. The very corrupt two-party stoogeaucracy is all they've ever known in Ottawa. I'll bet they spend zero time on Liberal-Tory friendly discussion forums discouraging them from voting.

 

Very well said and an excellent point.

Slumberjack

Sineed wrote:
People are free to spoil their ballot, then go home and write a 5,000 word essay in their blog explaining their decision.  Everybody else in the country will be, like, tl;dr.  And Harper will have his majority, the mask comes off, and he'll be free to destroy the environment, muzzle scientists, recriminalize abortion, ban SSM, build more prisons, privatize healthcare, cut taxes to the rich and services to the poor, mandatory minimums for all crimes, etc etc etc.

He's managed to at least make headway with many of the items on this list despite the other three parties holding the balance of power among them.

Slumberjack

alan smithee wrote:
I can't believe that here at babble,of all the other places discussing politics in this country,that spoiling our ballots or staying home is even being discussed. Unbelievable.

What apparently is to be believed consists in lending those who sell themselves through a dysfunctional electoral process, the shreds of legitimacy which they crave above all else. We are summoned and brow beaten if necessary, to the ritual of queuing up within a process that is not only specifically designed as an insurmountable obstruction to electoral reform initiatives, but one that purposefully clings with a death grip to the innate cruelty of its exclusive properties, resisting all challenge by the very nature of its construct.  We are expected to believe that the shorter road to valorization of the growing numbers of silenced and unrepresented citizens leads out from their cardboard armless bandits, conveniently positioned for our benefit every now and again.

takeitslowly

i cant imagine things becoming any worse for me, as someone who can only find part time call centre work..so yeah bring on with the harper majority, maybe things will change when more people have to suffer like i already am. And btw, i live in a safe liberal riding so I WONT be voting.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I get it...Most of you aren't going to vote and no one can make you.

But when Harper gets his majority and Canada turns into a Reagen/Thatcher/Bush Republic,you can't sit back and lay blame on anyone but yourselves.

If protests,petitions,sit ins or riots aren't going to work...And thus far they have done NOTHING in the way of any change,how are you going to feel when the Cons can finally implement their agenda without a leash?

We all saw what happened at the G20...And you can take it to the bank that they are going to try to re-write the Charter..And how do you figure this government is going to deal with protesters or dissenting voices?..Maybe you should watch a rerun of the G20 because there's a glimpse of Harper's Canada...Complete with ground troops in Libya and the Afghan mission to no longer have a time table.

Not to mention the re-criminalization of abortion,a Reagen era zero tolerance drug war,the privatization of EVERYTHING,scrapping social programs,creating MORE poverty,handing law enforcement unlimited power...Watch for censorship and restrictions to free speech....and Canada becoming the 51st State.

This is not paranoia..This is a Harper majority.

But hey..If you want to elect him,that's your prerogative...Just don't complain when Harper drops a social conservative H bomb on this country in which we will never recover from.

Don't complain..That's been my point for several posts.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Slumberjack wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
I can't believe that here at babble,of all the other places discussing politics in this country,that spoiling our ballots or staying home is even being discussed. Unbelievable.

What apparently is to be believed consists in lending those who sell themselves through a dysfunctional electoral process, the shreds of legitimacy which they crave above all else. We are summoned and brow beaten if necessary, to the ritual of queuing up within a process that is not only specifically designed as an insurmountable obstruction to electoral reform initiatives, but one that purposefully clings with a death grip to the innate cruelty of its exclusive properties, resisting all challenge by the very nature of its construct.  We are expected to believe that the shorter road to valorization of the growing numbers of silenced and unrepresented citizens leads out from their cardboard armless bandits, conveniently positioned for our benefit every now and again.

Well, SJ, we all know that "democracy" as it is practiced in Canada has many serious defects. However, most of us who think it is worth spending time posting on the babble Canadian politics forum also think that voting maintains some potential for changing society in a positive way, or at least to minimize negative changes.

Are you stating that in your opinion there is no value whatsover to be found in Canadian elections, and that they are 100% useless sham? That is certainly an intellectually defensible position, but once you take it, it would seem pointless to post in this forum. After all, you are most unlikely to convince any of your readers of your opinion, and any discussion of specific issues is pointless if it is all a sham. So, what do you hope to achieve with a post like this? And I mean that as a sincere question.

Fidel

Slumberjack wrote:

Sineed wrote:
People are free to spoil their ballot, then go home and write a 5,000 word essay in their blog explaining their decision.  Everybody else in the country will be, like, tl;dr.  And Harper will have his majority, the mask comes off, and he'll be free to destroy the environment, muzzle scientists, recriminalize abortion, ban SSM, build more prisons, privatize healthcare, cut taxes to the rich and services to the poor, mandatory minimums for all crimes, etc etc etc.

He's managed to at least make headway with many of the items on this list despite the other three parties holding the balance of power among them.

 

Sineed, what he meant to say is that the "official opposition party" Liberals have basically supported Harper's phony minority government most every step of the way since the Harpers were elected by some 22% of eligible voters. The Harpers actually have more seats than voter support percentage wise since 2008.There isn't a ray of sunshine between those two stale old line parties exceeding best-by dates several decades ago. 

And the solution to this dilemma, obviously, is to send more effective opposition NDP MPs to Ottawa. 

 

Sineed

Fidel wrote:
And the solution to this dilemma, obviously, is to send more effective opposition NDP MPs to Ottawa.

Yup.  But that can't happen if progressive people spoil their ballots in the name of ideological purity, while all the right-wing people happily vote for their blue-eyed boy.

Sineed

Michael Moriarty wrote:
Are you stating that in your opinion there is no value whatsover to be found in Canadian elections, and that they are 100% useless sham? That is certainly an intellectually defensible position, but once you take it, it would seem pointless to post in this forum.

That's a good point, Michael.  If voting is meaningless, then posting in this forum must have a homeopathic dilution of meaning.  Not one molecule of substance is left.

politicalnick

alan smithee wrote:

I get it...Most of you aren't going to vote and no one can make you.

But when Harper gets his majority and Canada turns into a Reagen/Thatcher/Bush Republic,you can't sit back and lay blame on anyone but yourselves.

If protests,petitions,sit ins or riots aren't going to work...And thus far they have done NOTHING in the way of any change,how are you going to feel when the Cons can finally implement their agenda without a leash?

We all saw what happened at the G20...And you can take it to the bank that they are going to try to re-write the Charter..And how do you figure this government is going to deal with protesters or dissenting voices?..Maybe you should watch a rerun of the G20 because there's a glimpse of Harper's Canada...Complete with ground troops in Libya and the Afghan mission to no longer have a time table.

Not to mention the re-criminalization of abortion,a Reagen era zero tolerance drug war,the privatization of EVERYTHING,scrapping social programs,creating MORE poverty,handing law enforcement unlimited power...Watch for censorship and restrictions to free speech....and Canada becoming the 51st State.

This is not paranoia..This is a Harper majority.

But hey..If you want to elect him,that's your prerogative...Just don't complain when Harper drops a social conservative H bomb on this country in which we will never recover from.

Don't complain..That's been my point for several posts.

I think I have only read 1 post here where someone stated they were not going to vote. Trying to scare people with this fear-mongering is not a productive way to get more people involved.

I never said I would not. I will assess all the candidates and then make a decision to vote for 1 or not vote at all but it will be an informed decision, not a lazy or apathetic one.

If I do or do not vote will not affect my active participation in the process for the rest of the 4-5 years the new government has power.

I would encourage everyone to be involved in the election process and make an informed choice and hopefully vote for someone. A large voter turnout will at least make it clear that we are all paying attention.

I am not for Harper or his policies but if he did get a majority there may be one good ting rise from it. Once he has negatively affected the lives of everyone but his rich, elitist friends we may get a full scale rebellion to make real positive changes to our system of government and our country.

Ken Burch

genstrike wrote:

After holding my nose and voting NDP my whole life, I'm going to try something new:

I'm only going to vote for candidates or parties that I like.  I know, it's a novel idea, and one which is probably unpopular on rabble, but it's my vote and whoever wants it has to earn it - the NDP no longer gets it by default, and if there's no one I like, so be it.

Oh, and if the NDP runs the same guy as last election in my riding, there is no way I'm voting for him.

I didn't know you actually LIKED any parties.

Slumberjack

Michael Moriarity wrote:
  However, most of us who think it is worth spending time posting on the babble Canadian politics forum also think that voting maintains some potential for changing society in a positive way, or at least to minimize negative changes.

Anyone honestly examining the past 30 years alone would be hard pressed to make any other determination, aside from the fact that all of the these minimizing efforts have been undertaken with little if any consequence to the institutions of corporate power.

Quote:
Are you stating that in your opinion there is no value whatsover to be found in Canadian elections, and that they are 100% useless sham? That is certainly an intellectually defensible position, but once you take it, it would seem pointless to post in this forum. After all, you are most unlikely to convince any of your readers of your opinion, and any discussion of specific issues is pointless if it is all a sham. So, what do you hope to achieve with a post like this? And I mean that as a sincere question.

It is my opinion that there exists an abundance of evidence to suggest that the act of voting itself resembles a carnival sham, which is conducted in such a routine and festive atmosphere as to obscure from the majority the sense that they've been collectively neutralized by the whole affair the day before, during and after.  Describing these conditions is a different matter than attempting to convince.  People will recognize their position within the assorted mounds of evidence, or not.

The political forum has traditionally provided scope for a range of respective opinions, analysis and descriptions, all within reason of course.

Fidel

So you're saying we should lie down for the corrupt stoogeaucracy on May 2nd, and stay home? No thanks.

I'll be casting a protest vote against the bastards by voting NDP. I will consider it my duty to do so as an anti-imperialist. Wink

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
I'll be casting a protest vote against the bastards by voting NDP. I will consider it my duty to do so as an anti-imperialist. Wink

NDP Statement February 22, 2011

Quote:
Canada should also be working with its international partners to bring the issue to the UN Security Council and work to establish a no-fly zone in Libya's airspace.

Lets hope you manage to retain that wink when entering the voting booth. 

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