So What’s A Progressive Voter To Do?

114 posts / 0 new
Last post
Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Canada is now a country were our politicians get to pick and chose who runs other countries. If our government doesn't like the UN recognized government then Freeland thinks the rules of international relations should not apply.

The Conservatives, to their credit, are at least upfront in their belief that we should let the US dictate our foreign policy. The Liberals previously have at least made the effort to present a facade of Canada having an independent foreign policy. What I've seen from this government on the foreign policy front I just cannot understand.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

A while back I did a little amateur number crunching using figures on the cost of the construction of the current high speed rail line being built in California.

For the $4.5 billion Justin Trudeau spent bailing out Texas pipeline investors it would have covered the cost of constrruction for the first 80 KM of high speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary (total distance approximately 300 KM).

How many jobs would have been created doing that kind of construction?   How many permanent jobs would there be (I'm guessing, a whole lot more than would be employed by building a pipeline).   How many cars would have been taken off the road resulting in less GHG emissions?

We would be moving people instead of some of the dirtiest oil on the planet.

Hell, there isn't even a normal "slow speed" passenger rail connection between these two cities...two of the largest in Canada.   It's a bloody national disgrace!

And even if you didn't spend the $4.5 billion on high speed rail, there are a ton of other things that could have been done to aid in a genuine green transition.   But no, this regime decided that bailing out Texas oil investors was much more important.

Fuck the Liberals and the horse they rode in on.

NorthReport

Is there any environmental issue Elizabeth May, Leader of the Greens, doesn't lie about?

Just askin'

Elizabeth May was holding disposable cup in photoshopped image, contrary to party's claims

The Post has obtained the original photo from internet archives, which shows May holding a single-use, although biodegradable, disposable cup

Green party Leader Elizabeth May, seen in the original photo showing her holding a disposable, biodegradable cup at a market on Vancouver Island. May says she was “completely shocked” that someone had photoshopped the image to add a metal straw and reusable cup.Green Party of Canada

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/elizabeth-may-was-holding-disposable-cup-in-photoshopped-image-contrary-to-partys-claims

NorthReport

Either Freeland is running the department or she isn't and she's not the type to not be in charge. Why doesn't she resign on principle as this happened under her watch!

Freeland vows swift response to 'unacceptable' appointment of pro-Assad official in Montreal

Freeland says her team wasn't aware of Waseem Ramli's appointment

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-freeland-assad-honorary-consul-review-1.5295429

NorthReport
NorthReport

The more voters see and hear about the real Justin Trudeau, after all the smoke and mirrors are removed, the less likely they will be to vote Liberal this election

Montreal-area MP says Liberals forced her out for not lauding Trudeau as a feminist

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-montreal-area-mp-says-liberals-forced-her-out-for-not-lauding-trudeau/

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

The least Elizabeth May's campaign could have done is alter the image with free/libre The Gimp instead of proprietary Photoshop.  :)

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

On the contrary, May believes strongly in "market solutions", not this commie "free software" stuff.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

On the contrary, May believes strongly in "market solutions", not this commie "free software" stuff.

LOL!!!    :)

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

They bailed out ALBERTA...end point

radiorahim wrote:

A while back I did a little amateur number crunching using figures on the cost of the construction of the current high speed rail line being built in California.

For the $4.5 billion Justin Trudeau spent bailing out Texas pipeline investors it would have covered the cost of constrruction for the first 80 KM of high speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary (total distance approximately 300 KM).

How many jobs would have been created doing that kind of construction?   How many permanent jobs would there be (I'm guessing, a whole lot more than would be employed by building a pipeline).   How many cars would have been taken off the road resulting in less GHG emissions?

We would be moving people instead of some of the dirtiest oil on the planet.

Hell, there isn't even a normal "slow speed" passenger rail connection between these two cities...two of the largest in Canada.   It's a bloody national disgrace!

And even if you didn't spend the $4.5 billion on high speed rail, there are a ton of other things that could have been done to aid in a genuine green transition.   But no, this regime decided that bailing out Texas oil investors was much more important.

Fuck the Liberals and the horse they rode in on.

NorthReport
NorthReport

How many more missteps can the Liberals make before they begin to seriously tank in the polls?

Quebecers are usually the most politically astute folks in the country and apparently the Liberals have, in the past week, dropped 4-5% in the polls in Quebec and the Bloc is picking up support 

I am beginning to wonder if the wheels are starting to come off the Liberal bus

NorthReport
NorthReport

David Suzuki: Tackling climate change means purging privilege from politics

https://www.straight.com/news/1306336/david-suzuki-tackling-climate-change-means-purging-privilege-politics

NorthReport

It is unfortunate the Greens who certainly have a great marketing name, are so right-wing, and will never ever achieve a reduction in greenhouse gases in Canada. Like the right-wing Liberals, the Greens are all smoke and mirrors as well.

Greta Thunberg's 495-word UN speech points us to a future of hope – or despair

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/26/greta-thunbergs-495-word-un-speech-points-us-to-a-future-of-hope-or-despair

NorthReport

I see the right-wing Greens aren't satisfied with just poaching NDP candidates, they have the ole right-wing Liberal disease of copying the NDP programs and campaigning on the left as well 

 

NorthReport

Don’t anyone dare call the Liberals progressive or left-wing They are just as right-wing as any other right-wing party in Canada 

Justin’s supporters should be very happy with these results

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadas-richest-1-per-cent-enjoyed-fastest-income-growth-in-2017/

brookmere

NorthReport wrote:
Quebecers are usually the most politically astute folks in the country and apparently the Liberals have, in the past week, dropped 4-5% in the polls in Quebec and the Bloc is picking up support

CBC poll tracker shows they have lost about 2% in the last week. They are 13% ahead of both the BQ and Cons who are tied at just under 22%. NDP barely ahead of the Greens at just under 10%. That's still the biggest lead for the Liberals of any region.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

Aristotleded24

radiorahim wrote:
A while back I did a little amateur number crunching using figures on the cost of the construction of the current high speed rail line being built in California.

For the $4.5 billion Justin Trudeau spent bailing out Texas pipeline investors it would have covered the cost of constrruction for the first 80 KM of high speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary (total distance approximately 300 KM).

How many jobs would have been created doing that kind of construction?   How many permanent jobs would there be (I'm guessing, a whole lot more than would be employed by building a pipeline).   How many cars would have been taken off the road resulting in less GHG emissions?

How many planes between Calgary and Edmonton would that have taken out of the skies?

NorthReport

CBC in my opinion are too close to the Liberals

CROP was the gold standard for polling in Quebec as the English firms were out to lunch with their Quebec forecasts Is CROP still polling?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Canadian_federal_election

brookmere wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
Quebecers are usually the most politically astute folks in the country and apparently the Liberals have, in the past week, dropped 4-5% in the polls in Quebec and the Bloc is picking up support

CBC poll tracker shows they have lost about 2% in the last week. They are 13% ahead of both the BQ and Cons who are tied at just under 22%. NDP barely ahead of the Greens at just under 10%. That's still the biggest lead for the Liberals of any region.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

CROP was the gold standard for polling in Quebec as the English firms were out to lunch with their Quebec forecasts Is CROP still polling?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Canadian_federal_election

They were way off in the Quebec election. They don't seem to have done any horserace polls since then.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

alan smithee wrote:

They bailed out ALBERTA...end point

radiorahim wrote:

Bullshit.   They bailed out Texas pipeline investors.   With the Liberals, it's all about appearances.   It's never about reality.      No government is going to push the world price of oil magiliciously up to $100 a barrel any time soon.

NorthReport

What stands out for me in those Quebec regional polls is that:

Liberal support has dropped 10% 

Conservative support has increased 9%

NDP support, almost like the Liberalsm has dropped 11%

Bloc support has increased by 3%

 

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:

How many planes between Calgary and Edmonton would that have taken out of the skies?

Absolutely!   Air travel, particularly by regular business travellers is a great contributor to GHG's.   And, we should make executive jets illegal.

NorthReport

We have the video-conferencing technology, which goes largely unused,  but the executives want the travel perks

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

NorthReport wrote:

We have the video-conferencing technology, which goes largely unused,  but the executives want the travel perks

Yes and it's the privileged who are doing the most to destroy the planet.   They should pay the costs of saving it.

NorthReport

An inkling of what goes on with the Trudeau Liberals behind the scenes when the cameras are not rolling

https://thebreaker.news/news/trudeau-fundraiser-house/

NorthReport

But what are the Cons going to do about climate change which is, after the economy, the most pressing issue for the voters

Conservatives promise to open up a judicial inquiry into SNC-Lavalin affair

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-snc-lavalin-inquiry-1.5297939

Aristotleded24

radiorahim wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

How many planes between Calgary and Edmonton would that have taken out of the skies?

Absolutely!   Air travel, particularly by regular business travellers is a great contributor to GHG's.   And, we should make executive jets illegal.

And given that domestic travel by railway doesn't have the same kind of security checkpoints as airports, that would be another major selling point for a more pleasant experience.

NorthReport
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Wow. Some rich right winger set out to sabotage the Liberals. Who'd of thunk it?

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

This sounds like the crap from the Clinton campaign from 2016 when stuff was leaked about the DNC trying to sabotage Bernie Sanders.

I really don't give a rat's ass who leaked JT's blackface photos.    The fact of the matter is that he did it.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

I'm supporting the party led by someone who, unlike Justin Trudeau wears a turban every day of the week and whose skin colour doesn't wash off.    

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Who is going to take over NDP leadership after they get their asses kicked on the 21st?

NorthReport

How many seats did the NDP win the first time Layton was leader?

Jagmeet is doing fine and on principle he needs to stick around for 3 or 4 elections just like Jack Layton did, until he became popular, eh!

 

NorthReport

Trudeau’s Brownface Is a Symptom of a Much More Dangerous Disease

We live in a racist society, and outrage over each new incident won’t change it. Here are 12 things that will.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2019/09/19/Trudeau-Brownface-Symptom-More-Dangerous-Disease-Racism-Canada/

NorthReport

An RCMP Investigation Could Sink Trudeau. Here’s Why It Won’t Happen

Liberal insiders says a criminal investigation before the election could snuff the party’s re-election hopes.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2019/08/21/Why-SNC-Lavalin-RCMP-Investigation-Will-Not-Happen/

R.E.Wood

NorthReport wrote:

How many seats did the NDP win the first time Layton was leader?

Jagmeet is doing fine and on principle he needs to stick around for 3 or 4 elections just like Jack Layton did, until he became popular, eh!

Times are very different than when Jack became leader after the extensive period of low seat counts under Audrey McLaughlin and Alexa McDonough. Most people will not have that kind of patience these days, following the Orange Wave, and its subsequent frittering away under Mulcair (one and done), and which has continued under Singh, who is about to preside over yet another massive loss of NDP seats.

NorthReport

Is that not racist? Just askin'

Maybe white guys and gals have made a mess of the NDP, and its time to let brown-skinned folks have a few kicks at the can, eh! 

Misfit Misfit's picture

 

radiorahim wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

How many planes between Calgary and Edmonton would that have taken out of the skies?

Absolutely!   Air travel, particularly by regular business travellers is a great contributor to GHG's.   And, we should make executive jets illegal.

Yes, but hurt Bombardier?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'm getting really tired of people calling others RACIST when anybody dare
question the NDP...this is why the NDP will never get anywhere

NorthReport wrote:

Is that not racist? Just askin'

Maybe white guys and gals have made a mess of the NDP, and its time to let brown-skinned folks have a few kicks at the can, eh! 

Paladin1

Uh, so the NDP are racist?

NorthReport

How embarrassing to be third worst

Greta attacks Trudeau for climate change failure to act in Canada

NorthReport

Well done Michael

Our Emperor Trudeau has no clothes!

The public has a right know what their prime minister is all about, eh!

‘The public has a right to know’

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5961192/source-of-justin-trudeau-brownface-photo-claims-to-be-motivated-by-publics-right-to-know/amp/

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

Uh, so the NDP are racist?


Uh...no. and you would have known this if you read the thread.. NR called RE a racist because he didn't have nice things about the NDP
There was also an entire thread calling out all those who criticized Singh and the NDP.
This works really well if one were to take the time VB to read the thread before c oommenting

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

alan smithee wrote:

radiorahim wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I'm not against that. Maybe that would bring some change. I'm not convinced that the Liberals are worse than the Conservatives.

Here's HOW they are worse.   Everyone knows the Tories are awful and reactionary.   Liberals are also awful and reactionary...the difference is their pseudo "progressive" sounding rhetoric that keep people locked into an illusion.

You're wrong my friend. They came from the bottom to a majority because they ran to the Left as the Mulcair NDP ran to the right. They made some progressive policies and they kept them. It seems everyone would be buzzing if those same policies were passed by the NDP. 

Again all you're doing is presenting the same argument I just denounced. It gets tiring. The Cons are better because they are reactionary? Because they are openly bad? On what planet would a so=called progressive view the Cons as the SECOND worse? What do you expect from Scheer and the Stephen Harper Conservatives?  Answer ; NOTHING unless you're rich,white and drink petrol.

To quote Leonard Nimoy.' That's highly illogical'  

Ok, ok, OK...in 2015, the Liberals gave the impression they were to the left of the NDP-Mulcair, to his eternal discredit, did all he could to encourage the idea that a vote for the NDP was not a vote for any real change-but that was the LAST election.  You voted the way you voted then.   That's the past.  That's carved in stone and unchangeable.  

We're in a different situation now.

Singh has nothing in common with Mulcair and is not responsible for the essentially conservative image Mulcair gave the NDP.  The NDP's program this year is clearly to the left of what it was in 2015 and clearly to the left of the Liberals.

There's no point in continuing to bring up the 2015 campaign and how the NDP and the Liberals seemed then.

And it would do nothing to stop the Cons for the Liberals to try and take seats FROM the NDP.  I get it that parties always try to take seats from other parties, but there's no case for the idea that it would serve any progressive good, for example, for any of the seats currently held by the NDP, especially in Quebec, to be taken by the Liberals.  In Quebec specifically, any Liberal gain from the NDP could only be a victory for bigotry, xenophobia and conservatism.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

 

.  In Quebec specifically, any Liberal gain from the NDP could only be a victory for bigotry, xenophobia and conservatism.

As I stated in another thread, no 2 threads, saying that people are xenophobes if they don't vote NDP is outrageously egregious that it turns off swing voters like myself. I haven't decided if I want to vote for a party that has a chance of beating the Cons or vote with my conscience for the party in which I approve of their policies.

But when I read bullshit like that I get really turned off. 

If the Liberals win the election it has NOTHING to do with xenophobia or racism. Nothing. 

 As mentioned by someone else  of the case of Jack Layton is that it took a few elections for the electorate to fall in love with him. Must I remind you that the Orange Wave was thanks to Quebec ?  We did our part, the ROC didn't. So calling Quebecers xenophobes if the NDP loses seats to the Liberals is not helping anybody's cause.

I'd back down from that comment, Ken. You're smart enough to know that is bullshit. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

alan smithee wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

 

.  In Quebec specifically, any Liberal gain from the NDP could only be a victory for bigotry, xenophobia and conservatism.

As I stated in another thread, no 2 threads, saying that people are xenophobes if they don't vote NDP is outrageously egregious that it turns off swing voters like myself. I haven't decided if I want to vote for a party that has a chance of beating the Cons or vote with my conscience for the party in which I approve of their policies.

But when I read bullshit like that I get really turned off. 

If the Liberals win the election it has NOTHING to do with xenophobia or racism. Nothing. 

 As mentioned by someone else  of the case of Jack Layton is that it took a few elections for the electorate to fall in love with him. Must I remind you that the Orange Wave was thanks to Quebec ?  We did our part, the ROC didn't. So calling Quebecers xenophobes if the NDP loses seats to the Liberals is not helping anybody's cause.

I'd back down from that comment, Ken. You're smart enough to know that is bullshit. 

I didn't say people were xenophobes simply if they didn't vote NDP as a universal statement.

I was talking specifically about Quebec, where the hostility to Singh has been based almost exclusively on xenophobia, in a way it hasn't been in other areas.  What else would you call it for people to reject a political figure simply because of the way he looks as part of his religious/cultural identity?

It can't be progressive to switch from voting for a more-progressive party to a less-progressive party because it's leader wears a turban and a beard for spiritual/cultural reasons.

If it's about stopping Scheer, the Liberals should focus on holding their current seats and trying to take seats from the Cons. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Singh as he dresses everyday on the campaign trail would not be allowed into the Quebec National Assembly but Elizabeth with her nice Christian cross around her neck would be allowed in no problem but heaven forbid anyone call it xenophobia or racism.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Singh as he dresses everyday on the campaign trail would not be allowed into the Quebec National Assembly but Elizabeth with her nice Christian cross around her neck would be allowed in no problem but heaven forbid anyone call it xenophobia or racism.

 The rednecks in Quebec live in Quebec City and the regions. These are the degenerates that elected CAQ.

This issue is all about the CAQ, La Meute and regional bigots.

Singh can wear his turban, a Jewish person can wear their yulemuka (pardon the incorrect spelling) and a muslim can wear a hijab. If you follow what is going on in Quebec with Loi 21. it is deeply unpopular with those living around the Island. I can`t see how CAQ will enforce this law. My guess is they can`t and it was just a nod and wink to their core supporters La Meute.

Pages