Trudeau #1 in Best Prime Ministers Survey

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Debater
Trudeau #1 in Best Prime Ministers Survey

 

Trudeau still No. 1 after 40 years
At the opposite end, new poll says 22% of us think Harper is worst leader in four decades

May 23, 2009

OTTAWA – Pierre Trudeau is considered far and away the best prime minister Canada has seen in the past four decades.

Nearly 40 per cent of Canadians accord him that honour, according to a new Toronto Star/Angus Reid Strategies online survey.

Trudeau has maintained the upper hand on this question since 2007.

Coming in a distant second is Prime Minister Stephen Harper, at 11 per cent.

Jean Chrétien is third at 9 per cent and Brian Mulroney is next at 8 per cent.

Mulroney's ranking has slipped from 12 per cent two years ago. The poll of 1,004 adult Canadians was conducted on May 19 and 20, just as Mulroney was finishing up six days of being questioned at a public inquiry about his controversial dealings with businessman Karlheinz Schreiber.

 

The best

Pierre Trudeau: 39%
Stephen Harper: 11%
Jean Chrétien: 9%
Brian Mulroney: 8%

The worst

Stephen Harper: 22%
Brian Mulroney: 19%
Jean Chrétien: 12%
Pierre Trudeau: 10%

Source: Angus Reid Strategies

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/639152

 

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Lester Pearson was a better man than all of them put together.

janfromthebruce

Well when Trudeau went up against Tommy Douglas for "best Canadian" we all know how that turned out - Tommy won! It just shows that Trudeau was swimming in a shallow pool.

genstrike

Seeing as the last person on the list only left office 25 years ago, we can see that a lot of people don't know a lot about history and are going by best in their memory.

Also, we're picking the best Canadian PM.  It's not like there are that many really good people in that bunch.

Fidel

Iiiiiiit's a [size=14]STOOGE-OFF!![/size]

abnormal

It wasn't that long ago that Trudeau was voted the worst [b]Canadian[/b], not just the worst Prime Minister.

genstrike

abnormal wrote:

It wasn't that long ago that Trudeau was voted the worst [b]Canadian[/b], not just the worst Prime Minister.

Yeah, but that was also a self-selected webpoll, if I remember correctly.  Trudeau seems rather polarizing in that a lot of people really love him and a lot of people really hate him.  On the other hand, everyone hates Mulroney.

abnormal

genstrike wrote:
Trudeau seems rather polarizing in that a lot of people really love him and a lot of people really hate him.

In my highschool days I bought into the Trudeau mystique.  Given the alternatives we all thought he was cool but in retrospect I know very few people from those days that have a good word to say about him.  [Good riddance doesn't count.]

Quote:
On the other hand, everyone hates Mulroney.

I'd agree with you if it wasn't so obvious that Mulroney likes himself (very much).

Debater

genstrike wrote:

abnormal wrote:

It wasn't that long ago that Trudeau was voted the worst [b]Canadian[/b], not just the worst Prime Minister.

Yeah, but that was also a self-selected webpoll, if I remember correctly.  Trudeau seems rather polarizing in that a lot of people really love him and a lot of people really hate him.  On the other hand, everyone hates Mulroney.

You're right - the results of that webpoll were distorted because members of Free Dominion deliberately targetted it and voted for Trudeau as being worst many times.  I don't think it's considered a reliable source.

I agree with Trudeau being the best Canadian PM over the past 40 years (which is what this poll measures).  Trudeau is probably also the favourite PM of most NDP voters.

And yes, the poll says Mulroney has gone down further recently, as has Harper.

abnormal

Debater wrote:
results of that webpoll were distorted because members of Free Dominion deliberately targetted it and voted for Trudeau as being worst many times.  I don't think it's considered a reliable source.

Correct me if I'm wrong I believe the poll re Tommy Douglas was also self selected.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

In the 1970s I worked in an Ottawa federal office that was created by one of Trudeau's 'make work' schemes, the Local Initiatives Program, which was located right next to another Trudeau-era creation, Opportunities For Youth. I think both were the brain-child of the guy that hired me, Cam Mackie, who at the time worked under Bryce Mackasey. As much as we adored Trudeau at the time, we were less enamoured by his choices for ministers to head up Manpower and Immigration in the time I worked for the feds: Bryce Mackasey, Otto Lang, and Robert Andras. I'd be earning well into six figures by now, although I'd also have been through a lot of training in continued education for the job as well as French language skills upgrading. But the Mob called, and no one turns them down. Sealed

Debater

abnormal wrote:

Debater wrote:
results of that webpoll were distorted because members of Free Dominion deliberately targetted it and voted for Trudeau as being worst many times.  I don't think it's considered a reliable source.

Correct me if I'm wrong I believe the poll re Tommy Douglas was also self selected.

 

The Tommy Douglas one was the vote for the series on CBC a few years ago where people voted for the best Canadian.  It was a very high-profile event which had a much wider audience voting for it than the smaller, lesser known webpoll that Free Dominion targetted.  The one FD targetted was therefore easier to distort.

In the Tommy Douglas one, I believe Douglas came first, Terry Fox 2nd, and Trudeau 3rd.

genstrike

Debater wrote:

abnormal wrote:

Debater wrote:
results of that webpoll were distorted because members of Free Dominion deliberately targetted it and voted for Trudeau as being worst many times.  I don't think it's considered a reliable source.

Correct me if I'm wrong I believe the poll re Tommy Douglas was also self selected.

 

The Tommy Douglas one was the vote for the series on CBC a few years ago where people voted for the best Canadian.  It was a very high-profile event which had a much wider audience voting for it than the smaller, lesser known webpoll that Free Dominion targetted.  The one FD targetted was therefore easier to distort.

In the Tommy Douglas one, I believe Douglas came first, Terry Fox 2nd, and Trudeau 3rd.

If I remember correctly, in the aftermath of the Greatest Canadian, someone did an actual poll and Terry Fox won, and Tommy Douglas was 2nd or 3rd.  Still, being 2nd to Terry Fox isn't exactly something to be ashamed about.  I could be wrong though, I'm just going by memory.

500_Apples

These surveys reveal a lot of our problems with our country.

In Europe, they put artists, scientists and philosophers on their currencies.

In Canada - the queen, and various prime ministers, ugh.

And even when we pick prime ministers, we only pick the most recent ones it seems. Pierre Trudeau, who rode around with a swastika and flunked out of Harvard because it was too challenging, is considered an intellectual. Harper, Chretien? No comment.

Here are some truly great canadians:

Robert Laglands - group theory and number theory

Philip Peebles - Cosmology and Astrophysics

Charles Best - codiscoverer of Insulin

Frederik Banting - Isolated insulin and received a nobel prize.

Lap Chee Tsui - Found the gene that causes cystic fibrosis.

Robert Batemen - Wildlife artist

Nah... how about Don Cherry and Pierre Trudeau !!!

Debater

500_Apples wrote:

Pierre Trudeau, who rode around with a swastika and flunked out of Harvard because it was too challenging, is considered an intellectual.

There's no question that he was an intellectual - even some of his strongest enemies in the PQ acknowledge his brilliance.

And bringing up some of the stupid things he did when he was younger is silly.  He was not perfect, but was certainly one of the most progressive and influential prime ministers we have ever had.  He is still extremely popular with racial minorities and new Canadians today.

Lord Palmerston

I didn't know he flunked out of Harvard.  I think he went on to the LSE where he studied under socialist intellectual Harold Laski but never finished a Ph.D.

Trudeau represented Mount Royal, the most heavily Jewish riding in Montreal.

remind remind's picture

George Bush has a Harvard degree

 Trudeau actually  graduated from Harvard with a Masters degree in Political Economy but did not finish his PHD there, he left, dissertation unfinished but did not "flunk" out.

 

Debater

Lord Palmerston wrote:

Trudeau represented Mount Royal, the most heavily Jewish riding in Montreal.

True.  Why?

remind remind's picture

marxist leanings?

Noise

 

Quote:
according to a new Toronto Star/Angus Reid Strategies online survey.

 

Heh, who would have guessed a toronto star survey would end up with Trudeau as the number one PM...I find it quite funny that Debater would point out a webpoll could be influenced by FD but completely ignore that this one was hosted by a Toronto newspaper. You bring this poll here and I can garentee you Trudeau ranks amongst the most hated PMs.

 

Trudeau represents the true heart of Liberals: "What, something outside of Toronto exists? No Way!"

 

 

Debater

Nothing wrong with that. Wink

Anyway, I was just curious as to why the ethnic composition of Trudeau's riding was being mentioned.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Noise wrote:

Heh, who would have guessed a toronto star survey would end up with Trudeau as the number one PM...I find it quite funny that Debater would point out a webpoll could be influenced by FD but completely ignore that this one was hosted by a Toronto newspaper. You bring this poll here and I can garentee you Trudeau ranks amongst the most hated PMs.

Trudeau represents the true heart of Liberals: "What, something outside of Toronto exists? No Way!"

What's quite funny is your association of Trudeau with Toronto.

Trudeau never cared for Toronto except that he could take it for granted as a Liberal stronghold. And other than the capital 'L' Liberal Star, Toronto newspapers never supported Trudeau.

And as for what the land of NEP mythology thinks of Trudeau ...who cares??

Noise

Liberal Montreal is considered part of the Upper Canada grouping here that I've just called Toronto...If you'd prefer me to use Upper Canada instead, just ask.

Quote:

And as for what the land of NEP mythology thinks of Trudeau ...who cares??

 

Pointing out the apparent number 1 PM in Toronto based newspapers polls was a Divisive as any other PM. A persons thoughts on the PM's performance has absolutely no bearing on the matter, it's just the usual Conservative vs Liberal Bullshit where current Liberals will stand up and say their leader is best and Conservatives will say there's is. The poll's location/audience will have more impact on the results than the question will.

 

I see your hate-on for Albertans and them being completely obsessed with the NEP still exists LTJ...hows that going for you?

 

 

Sean in Ottawa

Interesting-- agreed that many don't know history-- otherwise there would be other names offered up for best PM-- like Wilfred Laurier

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Noise - I don't hate Albertans, and I'd go so far as to say that you owe me an apology for that one.

As for the NEP myth that you've raised to religious cult status (that's the personal, not the 'royal' you); I'll admit to hating Big Lies, and particularly the ones that serve the purposes of corrupt corporate multinationals and their well-bought political puppets.

Debater

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Interesting-- agreed that many don't know history-- otherwise there would be other names offered up for best PM-- like Wilfred Laurier

But this is a public opinion poll that just deals with the last 40 years - not the whole history going back to 1867.  In a sense it is hard for the public to rank PM's before their lifetimes anyway unless they are specialists in history.  The point here is that Trudeau is ranked as the best PM in recent decades - there are however rankings done by historians of all the PM's.

In terms of the way Canadian historians rank the Prime Ministers from 1867-present, usually Laurier, MacDonald, MacKenzie King and St. Laurent come in positions 1-4, with Trudeau coming number #5.  Mulroney usually ranks around #8-9, and PM's who were only in office for a few months like Turner and Campbell come at the bottom around #20.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Well that is a convenient way of setting up a push poll.

Debater

Cueball wrote:

Well that is a convenient way of setting up a push poll.

It's a poll of who Canadians think the best PM is of the last 40 years.  They have chosen who they prefer the most out of that group.

Are you saying the poll is only valid if it goes back to 1867?

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Checking it out, I'm rather dubious of the methodology used. What is an 'online interview'? How are the interviewees selected? How do they determine their location? 

It might not be a push poll, but it likely isn't particularly accurate.

BTW, I'm in complete disagreement with the 'worst PM' results. Harper's an arrogant bastard with the potential to make the top of the list (given a majority), but he's never had the chance to do the serious damage he'd like to see.

Mulroney is clearly far and away the most corrupt and traitorous piece of shit that this country has ever produced. Full Stop. This vendu has no equal in our history.

Paul Martin would be my second on the list, for his lust for power and prestige for its own sake, his duplicity (both the standard "talk left, walk right", and his inner-party maneuverings for power going back to the Trudeau era), and his complete and utter incompetence.

Harper's currently a distant third at best.

Noise

LTJ:

Quote:

Noise - I don't hate Albertans, and I'd go so far as to say that you owe me an apology for that one.

 

As for the NEP myth that you've raised to religious cult status

 

I didn't bring up NEP, I never do...tis well before my time. Perhaps you don't hate Albertans, just believe we're all mystified by NEP?

 

 

Quote:

It might not be a push poll, but it likely isn't particularly accurate.

 

That's my point too, Liberal voters are going to vote for someone from their 'team' while a Conservative would choose a conservative PM for their number 1...I'd guess the party they vote for in an election will directly correspond with the party of their #1 PM. Run the poll in a Liberal stronghold, get a Liberal as the faveorite.

 

 

 

 

Debater

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Mulroney is clearly far and away the most corrupt and traitorous piece of shit that this country has ever produced. Full Stop. This vendu has no equal in our history.

Well I certainly dislike him intensely myself, as I have said on other threads.  He doesn't exactly rate very highly, although I wouldn't have a problem with him being lower.  According to the poll, he has in fact dropped several points since the last one a year ago.

What I also like is that Trudeau always beats Mulroney not only in the public opinion polls, but also in the rankings done by historians.  That really gets to Mulroney because he is jealous - you could tell this at the Oliphan Inquiry where he once again talked about what a great PM he was and that he was better than Trudeau.

Of course as we also know from the Peter C. Newman tapes, Mulroney considers himself the best PM in history after John A MacDonald.

500_Apples

remind wrote:

George Bush has a Harvard degree

 Trudeau actually  graduated from Harvard with a Masters degree in Political Economy but did not finish his PHD there, he left, dissertation unfinished but did not "flunk" out.

 

Bush went to Harvard Business School, different college, different purpose. But anyhow, he got the same degree as Trudeau - a Masters' degree.

IIRC, Trudeau had trouble with the intellectuality at Harvard. Among other things, he was confused that intelligent and educated people supported north american involvement to defeat the axis powers.

When I look through the history I don't see much evidence he was an intellectual that stands apart, vastly superior to Ed Broadbent, Paul Martin Sr. or Robert Stanfield. It seems it was just people at the time idolizing him, kinda like how right now a lot of people think Barack Obama is a force of brilliance that stands apart. I'm very skeptical. I think historians will be as well.

Debater

What I'm curious about is what was remind getting at when she mentioned that both Bush and Trudeau went to Harvard?  Is she actually comparing the two?

I would agree that having a Harvard degree does not prove someone is intelligent, and it obviously proves that when you have a powerful, wealthy, politically-connected father you can get into Harvard even if you have no ability whatsoever.

But just because well-connected idiots like Bush got to go to Harvard doesn't mean that the thousands of other talented people who have gone there should all be tainted by association.

 

thorin_bane

The online interview is a multiple choice question. I took the poll in the middle of some other data. They send you an invite to be polled if you sign on to Angus Reid. A lot of times I don't have a good answer for the choice given. There is no FTW answer for choices. I seem to remember having to rank performances of politicians on a number of fields. It may not be the same poll. But it falls in line with how they performed ranking harper and malroney as the worst.

Debater

I would say the poll is a pretty accurate representation of Canadians' views on the PM's since you often see similar results replicated in other polls.

Noise

I would say the poll has very little correlation with a person's assessment of the PM's and everything to do with their political affiliation...We've managed to discover a poll held by the Toronto Star manages to poll more Liberal voters than Conservatives.  About the only conclusion that I can take from this poll is Harper is more popular amoung conservatives than previous and Trudeau is the most popular amoung Liberals.

 

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

The one thing that is clear is that this polling was not done by the Toronto Star.

Noise

That seemed clear from the article...

 

Quote:
Nearly 40 per cent of Canadians accord him that honour, according to a new Toronto Star/Angus Reid Strategies online survey.

 Any way you can spin that one and relate it to the NEP mythology for me?

 

Actually the bottom of the article has:

Quote:
The poll found that 38 per cent of those who voted Liberal in the 2008 federal election select Harper as the worst prime minister. The same percentage of Bloc Québécois voters said likewise, while 31 per cent of NDP voters in 2008 named Harper the worst. Among Conservative voters, 23 per cent say Trudeau was the worst prime minister, while 20 per cent name Chrétien

which seems to agree with the corellation between ones political views and the choice for worst and best PMs.

Uncle John

This is just partisan twaddle.