Why is Bob Rae still being treated as our Official Opposition leader?

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Erik Redburn
Why is Bob Rae still being treated as our Official Opposition leader?

I've seen and heard more from him lately than I have from the NDP.

Why is that?

And what should Canada's constitutionally ELECTED Opposition Party do about it?

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Its simple, Trumel has simply got to step up. I can tell you I have emailed her office several times, but the replies I get back are useless. She doesn't seem to get it. I think she doesn't appreciate the harm she is doing to the party with her low profile, and weak statements. I think we all need to start putting pressure on the party to get her on track. Emails, letters, phone calls. They also need to turn their guns at Rae and start calling him on some of the stuff he says. Many of the situations we are finding ourselves in are directly attributable to Lib Governance.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Rae knows how to give a good sound bite. He sounds combative. The media automatically gravitate towards him.

Also, because his caucus is so small, he is the go-to Liberal guy on just about every topic, so he gets a lot more exposure.

Debater

Because Bob Rae is the most credible Opposition Leader in House right now and polls say he is the most popular Federal leader.

Skinny Dipper

Depending on who the NDP elects as the next leader, the opposition leader's profile should hopefully change for the better.  There will be three years until the next election (unless Harper chooses to seek a surprise mandate at an earlier date).

Todrick of Chat...

I doubt it will change, Bob Rea will have so much of lead by then the NDP will revert back to third place.

clambake

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Its simple, Trumel has simply got to step up.

^ This

They should have had Peter Julian act in the interm. Or Pat Martin would have been a hoot :D

JeffWells

Trumel was to be a summer stand-in. The party could have borne that. She never should have had the job this long.

Just five more weeks....

flight from kamakura

seriously.  i just wish jack hadn't died.

Erik Redburn

I don't know.  Turmel has been even weaker than I thought, even as a caretaker, but I wouldn't put all the blame on her.  The media has clamped an almost total media blackout on Turmel, after rushing to attack her over some minor issue, and NO one has challenged Rae's sincerity given his past history.   I guess they figure with that loser at the helm the NDP would be too scared to bring it up themselves, while Harper would make micemeaqt of him if he's stupid enough to actually run for PM.  I don't know, there must be some way for the party to go after Harper more forcefully meantime, steal some of Raes overblown bluster, even with the leadership convention going on. NOt like the NDP convention will get a tenth as much coverage as the Republican freakshow on cbc. 

Erik Redburn

Debater wrote:

Because Bob Rae is the most credible Opposition Leader in House right now and polls say he is the most popular Federal leader.

 

Ujjal Dosanjh was briefly said to be 'the most popular leader' in BC.   

You know Debater, if the Liberals really want to do a service for CAnada they can openly admit theyre a centre-right party now, nt centre-left, and start competing against the (neo)Conservatives for votes instead of trying to block the NDP.  With that one honest move the whole political alignment in Ottawa could be re-balanced to reflect the general population again.  Could even leave ground for an openly socialist party to the NDP's left without electing an quasi-fascist every election.    Just think of what your party could offer Canada then, the new progressive conservatives with roots in Quebec.   Harper would then shrivel back to Alberta and redneck BC.  BUt OC that makes too much sense.

edmundoconnor

flight from kamakura wrote:

seriously.  i just wish jack hadn't died.

You, me, and millions of Canadians think the same.

pebbles

Erik Redburn wrote:

I've seen and heard more from him lately than I have from the NDP.

Why is that?

Because the TV news networks can't get a clip out of Mme. Turmel, fairly or unfairly.

Unionist

pebbles wrote:

Erik Redburn wrote:

I've seen and heard more from him lately than I have from the NDP.

Why is that?

Because the TV news networks can't get a clip out of Mme. Turmel, fairly or unfairly.

For which the NDP should count its blessings.

The most important point is that this is a majority government. Neither the "official" (LOL) opposition nor the Liberals nor the Bloc nor the Green nor all of them put together can accomplish anything whatsoever in our "democratic" parliamentary system. So there's actually no particular reason for the MSM to talk to any of them. Given that, they will naturally gravitate to someone who sounds serious and occasionally has some interesting and/or original things to say. That someone is not Nycole Turmel.

And those of you bemoaning her lack of notoriety might at least have a close look at how her name is spelled.

 

Todrick of Chat...

Bob Rea is acting like a leader and Nycole Turmel is acting like a stand in. 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Trudeau's getting a lot of airplay because he's always good for a soundbite. Turmel looks like a deer caught in headlights whenever reporters get near her. Once Mulcair wins, though, I think he'll steal the thunder from the Libs easy.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Someone earlier said Jack should have appointed Pat Martin instead of Turmel. He would have been great for soundbites, even if he can be a bit of a prick sometimes. And he's not camera shy. And he uses salty [email protected]#$%!!! language. Laughing

jjuares

Rae has got a free ride from the media. If you watch some of his questions and speeches from the house it is surprising how much he stumbles and bumbles his way through. That is never covered though.

Erik Redburn

Boom Boom wrote:

Someone earlier said Jack should have appointed Pat Martin instead of Turmel. He would have been great for soundbites, even if he can be a bit of a prick sometimes. And he's not camera shy. And he uses salty [email protected]#$%!!! language. Laughing

 

You Know, I'm not a fan of his politics but Pat Martin might have been a pretty good interim leader.  Maybe Jack thought he might want to run himself.

Debater

Boom Boom wrote:

Trudeau's getting a lot of airplay because he's always good for a soundbite. Turmel looks like a deer caught in headlights whenever reporters get near her. Once Mulcair wins, though, I think he'll steal the thunder from the Libs easy.

I agree he'll take some attention away from the Liberals because he is a much stronger presence than the current NDP leader, but that might not always be a good thing!  I'm sure you can already tell that Mulcair is disliked by the media and that they will be out to get him.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Well Debater, I don't think it has anything to how credible Rae is, but nice spin on your part. It what really is the MSM has got tunnel vision, and Trumel wasn't cut out for the job. I don't know what Jack (blessed be his memory) was thinking, but he sure got it wrong. I wondered why Martin didn't get appointed intereim leader; he'd have done a great job.

As to being too far ahead to catch up, that all depends on who the NDP picks as the leader. As I said, you Libs are completely irrelevant to how things turn out. It has NOTING to do with you. Its the NDP's to lose, only. You guys simply don't matter, PERIOD!

 

Stockholm

I don't think Pat Martin would ever have been a suitable interim leader. He speaks no French at all. You cannot have an interim leader of of a 60% francophone caucus who speaks no French. Period.

algomafalcon

Turmel reminds me of Dewar. I mean when Dewar is speaking English. I can't imagine what image he projects in French.

Its unfortunate that Nicole has not performed better as an interim leader, but it does show that you get nowhere if you have a weak spokesperson.

 

pcml

"""Well Debater, I don't think it has anything to how credible Rae is, but nice spin on your part. It what really is the MSM has got tunnel vision, and Trumel wasn't cut out for the job. I don't know what Jack (blessed be his memory) was thinking, but he sure got it wrong. I wondered why Martin didn't get appointed intereim leader; he'd have done a great job.

As to being too far ahead to catch up, that all depends on who the NDP picks as the leader. As I said, you Libs are completely irrelevant to how things turn out. It has NOTING to do with you. Its the NDP's to lose, only. You guys simply don't matter, PERIOD!"""

 

Like our soon coming proven correct opinions you mean?
I shall remind you of all this when you are merely a foot note and then probably  a liberal cheerleader instead 

If you do really bless jacks memory you would know why pat martin isnt interm leader...jack picked her

Its really really hard to argue with someone who doesnt really know what actually taking place...yes it is

Still fun though and I dont have any more flys to pull wings off of 

Aristotleded24

Seriously, why are we even worried? Remember before the last election when the media treated the NDP as if it didn't even exist? If the NDP could gain traction then, why wouldn't the NDP be able to gain even more traction when it has sheer numbers to back it up?

I've long maintained that an NDP Official Opposition is a stronger check against a Harper majority than the Liberals were under a Harper minority, and that's why the seat counts have gone the way they have. Consider that the NDP currently has an interim leader who is not well known and is not resonating. Even though, the following are the blows that the NDP under Turmel have landed on the Conservatives:

Tony Clement's Muskoka adventures

Backlash against Internet spying

Changes to the immigration and refugee system

Forcing Harper to back down on changes to the OAS.

There's a great deal of work ahead, but if we do the work, we will be fine.

Stockholm

For all the bitching about Turmel being invisible and speaking poor English, according to the polls - the ONLY place in Canada where NDP support has declined at all since the election is in Turmel's native Quebec where her language skills are not an issue at all. NDP support has been very, very solid in the rest of the country. It is Turmel-mania I tell you!!!

Winston

double post

Winston

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Even though, the following are the blows that the NDP under Turmel have landed on the Conservatives:

Tony Clement's Muskoka adventures

Backlash against Internet spying

Changes to the immigration and refugee system

Forcing Harper to back down on changes to the OAS.

There's a great deal of work ahead, but if we do the work, we will be fine.

BINGO!  And on each of those issues, the Turmel NDP was ahead of the curve, leaving Bob Rae to jump on board later to much fanfare.  Damn that man (and his shills in the mainstream press) are aggravating!

And despite the non-stop coverage of Bob Rae (I swear that P&P should be renamed to "The Bob Rae show with Dinglenuts Solomon"), we're still up in the polls since May in every region except Ontario (where we are even, though trending upward) and Quebec.  With a popular Québec-based leader next month, those numbers will go back up too. 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Oops - either I wasn't aware that Pat Martin spoke no French, or I had forgotten. Thanks for the reminder, Stock. Still, he would have been great fun as Interim.

 

ETA: Pat Martin's a pretty controversial (right wing?) guy - but doesn't he also have a substantial French population in his riding of Winnipeg? Shouldn't he be bilingual?

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

You know something pcml, you have got something wrong with you. If you really need to spend time taking shots at me, then you really need to get a different hobby, especially if I am as clueless as you imply.

Well, as we used to say in the Navy, "fill your boots".

Winston

Boom Boom wrote:

ETA: Pat Martin's a pretty controversial (right wing?) guy - but doesn't he also have a substantial French population in his riding of Winnipeg? Shouldn't he be bilingual?

No he doesn't have a significant franco population, though he does have high aboriginal and Filipino populations there.  To my knowledge, he does not speak any of Cree, Ojibway or Tagalog.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Well as is always the case, Boom Boom, Ari, Winston, you guys all make sense. I never thought of it the way you pointed out. Makes me feel a little better. I guess I just really don't like the idea that a former New Dem like Rae gets so much attention and cred with the MSM. It just gets under my skin. Thanks for pointing out these things.

Winston

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Well, as we used to say in the Navy, "fill your boots".

Is that where I picked up the phrase?  I've been using that one for so long I had forgotten where it came from.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Yep, Winston its one of the few things I can still remember, lol. Cheers buddy!

Debater

Winston wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Even though, the following are the blows that the NDP under Turmel have landed on the Conservatives:

Tony Clement's Muskoka adventures

Backlash against Internet spying

Changes to the immigration and refugee system

Forcing Harper to back down on changes to the OAS.

There's a great deal of work ahead, but if we do the work, we will be fine.

BINGO!  And on each of those issues, the Turmel NDP was ahead of the curve, leaving Bob Rae to jump on board later to much fanfare.  Damn that man (and his shills in the mainstream press) are aggravating!

And despite the non-stop coverage of Bob Rae (I swear that P&P should be renamed to "The Bob Rae show with Dinglenuts Solomon"), we're still up in the polls since May in every region except Ontario (where we are even, though trending upward) and Quebec.  With a popular Québec-based leader next month, those numbers will go back up too. 

The NDP is down or flatlined in the polls in most regions of the country that I've seen posted.  I'm not sure which polls you're referring to.  One of the recent polls out last week pointed out that the Liberals were nearly tied with the NDP.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Debater, since the Nanos outlier poll, the results have show the NDP ahead, 28 to 26 for you thugs. So spin it any way you want, all the movement is in the noise right now. Polls are sure to come out in the interim, and its possible you thugs will get a bump. But once we have a leader, don't plan on getting to comfy.

Getting nervous eh?

evaandaldolph

   I believe it is because the media has been in love with the Liberals for so long that they are having a hard time letting go and moving on. This may change with a new leader for the NDP,but I have my doubts.

   The next leader must use the immediate media attention to usurp Rae's exposure. The NDP deserves to be heard  because of their numbers in Parliament. The media will continue to ignore them if the NDP does not act as the opposition.

   Do not refer to the Liberals as anything but the third party. Do not refer to Rae as anything but the leader of the third party. The NDP may never achieve power,,but they are the legitimate opposition. Time to step up to the plate.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Winston wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Forcing Harper to back down on changes to the OAS.

Harper has not backed down on changes to the OAS.

vaudree

jjuares wrote:

Rae has got a free ride from the media. If you watch some of his questions and speeches from the house it is surprising how much he stumbles and bumbles his way through. That is never covered though.

Agree with you there.  Also, though Turmel does sometimes look like Dion's cousin with her mannerisms and tendency towards invisibility, there have been strong NDPers speaking.  If you watch during the morning it is NDP MPs talking but by the time The National comes on, they've figured out a way to make it look like Rae is doing everything.  I can understand them using a Rae clip rather than a Turmel clip, but they are using Rae clips instead of Charlie Angus clips or Megan Leslie clips half the time!

Turmel and Mulcair have opposite strengths and weaknesses - Turmel is good at keeping the MPs working together but doesn't have much stage presence.

I think Justin Trudeau is waiting for Rae to stumble because he seems more eager to be the replacement in waiting than I've seen him be yet.

pcml

Arty if I make the same errors or any errors of course just go ahead and fire away

I have big shoulders and promise not to dry my tears on some mods cuffs as I plead they banish your none existant E name

Now without hurting your obvious tender feelings I would say I really do not care squat about what you think actually although I do kibitz here with you from time to time

Mosttime you are a means to an end 

I would respond to others if they said the same things 

Don't flatter yourself that I may have taken a shine or even targeted you

It is your words that I am referring to

Your alias is just that...and we all can imagine others here as what ever

As a matter of fact in your case ..??..even with that name ....I kinda picture you as a girl actually

Now it matters not what I think doesn't it?

And if that comment also bothered you and you took offense...to even ?

Well I must warn you that  my mother was also girl and so is my wife and that as a result I am pretty partial to them over here in my kingdom

So....
Don't tread on them to dispel my arguments ...please

LOL

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

pcml, whatever.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

On CTV just now, the reporter was discussing Bill C30 and then cut away to Marc Garneau's comments regarding Bill C30 without giviing the context that it was a 3 way with Charlie Angus. I watached it and Charlie did his usuall Yeoman's job, and called out the LIbs as well during the discussion. The reporter used word's that implied the Libs were the Official Oppostion, and finished his report by saying "you can watch the entire inteview with Marc Garneau during the Question Period replay at 5". The MSM is so full of it. Maybe this thread should have been called "What chance does the NDP have of being seen as the Ofiicial Opportunity with all the deliberate implied framing of the Libs so being the OO by the MSM such as CTV". Its disgusting.

Brachina

The question becomes how do you beat a hostile media? Why hasn't the CLC purchased one of the big networks yet? How do we fight back/pressure the media to provide fair coverage?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Last week had more NDP coverage in Power and Politics than I've seen in a while, with interviews of Topp and Dewar, and more to come soon. And Solomon interviewed Topp on CBC's The House Saturday - was anyone listening?

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Boom Boom, the weekend shows always get higher viewership. My other point is they treat Rae like he is the Leader of the Opposition. That is what is the problem. He isn't and neither are the Libs. When Jack (blessed be his memory) was still with us, I didn't see that kind of treatment, and frankly, it gets under my skin. It isn't any secret what is going on here.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

The Topp interview on P&P  was on last Thursday, Arthur, not the weekend. And they also had a panel discussion on the NDP leadership race - again on Thursday, after the Topp interview. And two more NDP candidates will be on this week, can't remember which ones. Maybe Mulcair.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

You know the problem with speaking to you Boom Boom is you are always an adult, it drives me crazy! Wink

I just can't help but feel we really get a fair hearing. And I still think that Rae and the Libs are being treated by the MSM as the Official Oppostion. I mean this thing about Garneau, as I outlined above is just more of the same as far as I can tell. But, I'll try to do better. I have to admit, now that I am not in the service, I don't really do as well as I did keeping my emotions under control. Besides, I love to vent, lol. Laughing

As is always the case, you make really good sense. Darn you!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Just now on CTV, story starts "the Oppostion says there needs to be changes to Bil C30. Appearing today on Question Period, Liberal MP Marc Garneau...". Seriously, how do these guys think they are fooling anyone? I mean, what do we do about it? This is just C**P!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Just now on CTV, story starts "the Oppostion says there needs to be changes to Bil C30. Appearing today on Question Period, Liberal MP Marc Garneau...". Seriously, how do these guys think they are fooling anyone? I mean, what do we do about it? This is just C**P!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Stop watching CTV! It's not good for your health!

ps: no one has ever called me an "adult" before! rockon  Laughing 

Grandpa_Bill

Boom Boom wrote:

Stop watching CTV! It's not good for your health!

I take this as very good advice.  There is certainly enough news and comment for me on the internet and in the weekend newspapers.

Further, when I'm discussing what's what with friends, I am able to talk up these sources and talk down CTV.

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