ONDP Leadership thread II - discuss, debate, post news here!

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ONDP Leadership thread II - discuss, debate, post news here!
wage zombie

synthome wrote:
 

wage zombie: actually it's Tabuns alone, after that you might as well put McGuinty on the ballot and get an experienced Liberal leading the New Doomacratic Party. Just kidding, sort of.

You missed my point entirely. 

Sunday Hat

"I feel I am the frontrunner" says Tabuns.

Funny. Most people, especially if you might be the frontrunner, tend not to say they're the frontrunner (eg. Dalton McGuinty in the last Ontario campaign). If there's a strategy here I don't get it.

Sunday Hat

From the same article, the socialist warrior notes that, "government can only go so far when it comes to pressuring businesses to adopt environmental policies. In answer to a question about forcing automakers to build more hybrid vehicles, government can “only apply political pressure,” he said."

alphasix actual

Sunday Hat wrote:

"I feel I am the frontrunner" says Tabuns.

Funny. Most people, especially if you might be the frontrunner, tend not to say they're the frontrunner (eg. Dalton McGuinty in the last Ontario campaign). If there's a strategy here I don't get it.

It could be whistling in the dark or the Coke vs Pepsi theory, meaning that by telling the masses your number one they believe it. IE MacDonald's is the number one restaurant in Canada. Or would Harvey's be more appropriate.

foxymoron

but who would we boycott?Laughing

Sunday Hat

Xtra profiles the race.

The comment section quote cracks me up: "Gilles Bisson is a hot bear!"

JMasse

I see that I have not missed that much in the last week. I really wonder if this is changing anyones mind?

foxymoron

Maybe we should ask Deputy Mayor McCheese.

NDGrowl

No...I seriously doubt the incestrous bickering between political operatives are changing or motivating any minds.  Poor Synth came on and was practically attacked for his "university" mind set.  Wow...and the NDP wants to rebuild...new blood...empower youths?  This is exactly the "old guard" mentality that is destroying the party.  Congratulations!

Stockholm

"Funny. Most people, especially if you might be the frontrunner, tend not to say they're the frontrunner (eg. Dalton McGuinty in the last Ontario campaign). If there's a strategy here I don't get it."

In a leadership campaign where core party members are voting - it makes sense to send out the message that you are a winner and are leading.

Wilf Day

Sunday Hat wrote:

"I feel I am the frontrunner" says Tabuns. If there's a strategy here I don't get it.

Well, with both Kormos and Marchese endorsing Horwath, Tabuns needed a major endorser to break her momentum. Who better to endorse Tabuns than --- Tabuns?

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

The Star endorses Horwath in it's Editorial.  Not sure if that's good or bad for Andrea considering they spelt her last name wrong.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/590904

Quote:

Of the four, Horvath would be our choice. While during the campaign she has stuck rigidly to past NDP platform positions, she represents change in other ways – generation (at 45, she is the youngest of the four candidates), geography (she is from Hamilton) and gender (the provincial NDP has never had a woman leader). And there is hope she would grow in office.

 

Sunday Hat

Some of the comments on synthome were unfair. However, his comments weren't fair either. Many weren't even accurate. These threads have been dominated by a number of fairly partisan people - many of whom insist that everyone who oppses them is too partisan.

Anyway...

Toronto Star endorses Horwath

I don't know how much this helps Horwath but it's definitely bad news for Tabuns. His hometown paper quickly and brutally dismisses him. Prue's skewered as well. Bisson comes off relatively well.

Of the four, Bisson and Prue have been the most ready to challenge NDP orthodoxy during the leadership campaign. Bisson has called for the NDP to move away from its "tax the rich" stance in favour of "wealth creation," and he has advocated a tougher position on crime. But like Hampton, Bisson is a northerner, and it is time for a southern NDP leader.

Prue is pushing for a debate on whether the NDP should continue to support separate school funding. And he alone of the four candidates questioned the party's decision to hold up the York U. bill. But in other respects, Prue's positions seem hackneyed, up to and including his campaign slogan ("results we've never had before").

Tabuns comes across as a single-issue candidate focused on the environment and energy – a reflection of his past position as head of Greenpeace Canada. He appears to be the choice of many in the party establishment.

Of the four, Horwath would be our choice. While during the campaign she has stuck rigidly to past NDP platform positions, she represents change in other ways – generation (at 45, she is the youngest of the four candidates), geography (she is from Hamilton) and gender (the provincial NDP has never had a woman leader). And there is hope she would grow in office.

synthome

Now that I've had a good cry and a hug from my therapist I can lift my head and face you mean bullies again. ;-)

I stand by what I've written, most of which was an expression of what I'd like to see the NDP become and of what would, as an active member, drive me away.  Sunday Hat, I would suggest you similarly stand by what you wrote and not resort to the "but he did it too" stuff. Just call me out when I'm out of line and I'll show up.

Let me be clear. I self-identify as a democratic socialist and desire the NDP to represent those interests in some way. The ONDP can't do much worse in terms of electoral success and, in my view has little lose and everything to gain by taking a sharp left turn rather than sidling up to the Liberal center.  That is my ideological hope.

I voted for Peter Tabuns  for a variety of reasons. It's not that he's casting himself as a "socialist" but he is in my view the most "leftist" of the candidates. So aside from the specific reasons, which I've mentioned a few times, (See here) for supporting Tabuns, a very simple one is that I always start counting from the left and Peter was the first candidate that came into view and increasingly the only one that comes into view at all until you reach the middle road owned by the Liberals.

re: Star's endorsement of Andrea Horwath

When the Liberals, I mean The Toronto Star, makes such an endorsement, it should only give us pause for thought (after all they were so kind to the ONDP in the previous provincial election).

Is it because Andrea's been adopted into the Liberal family or because she's seen as easy prey for the Liberals in the next election? I believe this now makes Andrea the establishment candidate, the Liberal establishment that is.

 

 

Wilf Day

RevolutionPlease wrote:

The Star endorses Horwath in it's Editorial.  Not sure if that's good or bad for Andrea considering they spelt her last name wrong.

I'd say they endorsed her because they assume a leader from Hamilton would be good for Toronto Liberals (the only Liberals who count in the Star's editorial board room.) Deliberately misspelling her name would be consistent with that motivation.

Am I unfair to the Star? Consider their attitude to Proportional Representation. Look at the effect of regional MMP on the Liberal Party's MPs. Instead of having only seven western MPs, Liberal voters would have elected 16, nine more. And this was even more true in Ontario outside the GTA where they elected only five MPs, and would have elected 15, ten more. On the other hand, they would have elected seven fewer from the City of Toronto. The Liberal establishment and the Toronto Star are apparently more concerned with keeping those seven Toronto MPs than getting nineteen from the rest of Ontario and the West.  

Robo

I read that Andrea Horwath will be going to Welland and Port Colborne on Monday. 

scout1

the star has a new editor who is far from being a liberal.

Sunday Hat

Yep. And Peggy Nash and Marilyn Churley are even bigger Libs - after all the Toronto Star says they should have run. Evidently, Peter Kormos is a Liberal plant too. He's been luring us all in for the last 2 decades with radical rhetoric but now his real plan is revealed.

Once Horwath wins she'll rip off her mask and reveal she's Dalton McGuinty.

or...

Maybe the Toronto Star simply thinks that Andrea's the best of the candidates.

Wilf Day

Sunday Hat wrote:
Maybe the Toronto Star simply thinks that Andrea's the best of the candidates.

Well, certainly I think Andrea's the best of the candidates. But it's so long since I've ever agreed with the Toronto Star on anything that it's making me a bit paranoid.

 

Sunday Hat

There's a headline: "Toronto Star and Wilf Day agree"

Stockholm

My only concern about Andrea Horvath is that she was one of the co-chairs of the last provincial election campaign - which was a bit of a flop - and that I hear that she is backed by all the "lifers" at ONDP HQ who want a leader who won't rock the boat and won't change anything and will let them all keep their sinecures. That is cause for concern. I think Tabuns is the most intelligent of the candidates and has the best grasp of the issues - and despite all the focus on image - I think that being very smart is a major factor in being a good leader. 

That being said, Horvath wouldn't kill the party in the way that Prue or Bisson might. My concern is whether she actually has what it takes to be leader or if people are just thinking: She's a woman - check, she's younger - check, she's from Hamilton - check. When parties choose a leader through that kind of thinking, you end up with Kim Campbell leading the PCs and Audrey McLaughlin leading the NDP. People who know her better than me can explain why they think she DOES have the right stuff - but I want to vote for someone whoI think is the smartest person with the most forward looking ideas and who is running for the right reasons -not based on who fits a series of demographic characteristics....and before anyone accuses me of being sexist for saying the above - note that to this day, I think the most catastrophic mistake the ONDP ever made was in NOT picking Frances Lankin to be leader in 1996!

Sunday Hat

The deliberate misspelling is cute Stockholm (but please don't keep it up) I think the rumour mongering is lot less so.

The nice thing about assertions that can't be proven is that you can smear a person with them and the victim of the smear can't dissprove them.

But, let's look at the facts:

A quick look at Tabins (sic) website shows that he is backed by Diane O'Reggio, the outgoing provincial secretary who had a much much much bigger role in the last campaign than Andrea - or anyone else.

He's also backed by Sherrill Game, David Mackenzie, Michael Lewis, etc. all of whom were working at provincial headquarters in senior roles in the last campaign.

I don't think any of this is a reason to vote against Tabins (sic) but if his campaign wants to start a whisper campaign about Andrea Horwath this is the one that makes the least sense.

An even better idea would be to NOT start a whisper campaign and discuss the facts.

ETA:

Your comparisons are interesting. Kim Campbell was seen as having a very sharp mind and a strong grasp of the issues. It was something the PC campaign emphasized in 1993. I think it's still safe to say that Campbell had a better grasp of the issues then Chretien. Chretien was simply a better politician. I don't think anyone accused Dave Barrett of having a better grasp of policy than Audrey McG either. When people claim he would have made a better leader they rarely cite his grasp of policy.

All that said, I think it's a subjective call. From what I've seen Peter has a thorough understanding of energy supply issues. That's fine for an energy Critic but it seems to me that a myopic focus on a single issue is a risky proposition - particularly if most people in the province don't care that much about the issue.

janfromthebruce

Get Orange - now that was a big hit - NOT. Now which MPPs were the co-chairs of this "all over non-coherant campaign mistake?

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Bookish Agrarian

After all its not like the entire election campaign was hijacked by an ill-conceived plan to discuss religious school funding issues that will always work to the Liberal's benefit.

I heard that certain candidates were the cause of raining frogs and for low tides in the Great Lakes too.  Let's burn them at the stake.  After all its not like ALL MPPs would have senior roles in setting the tone and tenor of the campaign now would they.  You know like the property tax plan that was a complete dud. 

Or being quiet on things right now like a hugely bad precednet in McGuinty's "Green" energy plans.

 

Stockholm

I'm asking for someone to make the case to me that Horwath is a giant intellect who will take the ONDP in a new direction and who is willing to shake things up and assemble a brand new team of people around her to run the party. If you think that is her - then I'm glad to hear it. I want to be convinced that there are reasons why she would make a good leader beyond - she's a woman and she's young. I want to feel enthusiastic about the next leader and not just feel that we got the least of four evils.

janfromthebruce

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

After all its not like the entire election campaign was hijacked by an ill-conceived plan to discuss religious school funding issues that will always work to the Liberal's benefit.

I heard that certain candidates were the cause of raining frogs and for low tides in the Great Lakes too.  Let's burn them at the stake.  After all its not like ALL MPPs would have senior roles in setting the tone and tenor of the campaign now would they.  You know like the property tax plan that was a complete dud. 

Or being quiet on things right now like a hugely bad precednet in McGuinty's "Green" energy plans.

Well no wonder McGuinty thought it would be great - running against "funding all" and knowing that the NDP held the same position that the liberals and thus off-siding them, as me too.

Anyway, who was the co-chair of "get orange"? 

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Stockholm

My inclination is to vote Tabuns 1 and Horwath 2 - I just hope whoever wins - fires everyone at ONDP headquarters and hires a whole new bunch of people with new ideas. In fact, I think it would be good if everyone who worked for Hampton hands in their resignation to the new leader and let's him or her have a totally free hand in deciding who to ask to stay and who to wave goodbye to.

Sunday Hat

janfromthebruce wrote:
Well no wonder McGuinty thought it would be great - running against "funding all" and knowing that the NDP held the same position that the liberals and thus off-siding them, as me too
There was a party that advocated the abolition of Catholic schools and they got zero seats. I think they came second in one. I find the argument that it's the "right thing to do" more inspiring than the "we'll win a bunch of seats" argument which is demonstrably untrue.

Sunday Hat

Stockholm wrote:
My inclination is to vote Tabuns 1 and Horwath 2 - I just hope whoever wins - fires everyone at ONDP headquarters and hires a whole new bunch of people with new ideas. In fact, I think it would be good if everyone who worked for Hampton hands in their resignation to the new leader and let's him or her have a totally free hand in deciding who to ask to stay and who to wave goodbye to.
By and large, that happened. Ousted MPP Paul Ferreira is now the Chief of Staff. Dennis Young is the acting Provincial Secretary. I understand there were other departures as well.

Stockholm

Check your PMs Sunday Hat.

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

Sunday Hat wrote:
- Scott Piatowski supports her. And he's never wrong.

Piatkowski (it's the day for misspellings I suppose). But, thanks... er, I think.

To respond to the three most recent lines of attack on Andrea:

1. She co-chaired the last campaign. Without minimizing what is a very important role, the primary direction of the campaign was the responsibility of paid staffers and consultants. And, without telling tales out of school, I can assure you that there was vigorous debate on the EPC both before and after E-Day and that Andrea was a part of that vigorous debate. She also made sure that those of us who like to ask tough questions were heard.

2. The Toronto Star supports her (ergo, she must be evil). Frankly, that was a pretty tepid endorsement at the end of a horribly argued diatribe against the NDP and Howard Hampton. So, if you want to hold that against her, go ahead. But maybe, just maybe, they have a point and she really is the best candidate. There are certainly more and better reasons to vote for Andrea than gender, age and geography; The Star just didn't bother to note them (or to look up the correct spelling of her name).

3. "Lifers" at Provincial Office allegedly support her because she allegedly won't shake things up. There's hardly anyone left working at Provincial Office due to budget constraints. The Acting Provincial Secretary is leaving soon (hence the word "Acting" in his title). He and everyone working for the party and Hampton's office are neutral. Furthermore, there's little evidence that Horwath is a status quo candidate. If she was, I wouldn't be supporting her.

northwestern_lad

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northwestern_lad

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Sunday Hat

Stockholm, I have to say I have trouble believing you're sincere given the fact that you've made it plenty clear that you've made a decision. And that by that decision you've made it pretty clear that you don't actually have much of a problem with the party establishment and have little sincere desire to shake them up (the Tabuns campaign team was at the centre of the last campaign so the idea that he represents some radical break is farcical, to say the least).

All that said, assuming I've misunderstood, here's why I voted Horwath:

- Andrea is the only candidate who can actually play province-wide. Throughout this campaign, and in the past, Andrea's shown that she can bring people into the tent and can spearhead a broad movement that works in downtown Toronto as well as Kenora. The team that's forming behind her includes everyone from urban Toronto activists like Jehad Al-Iwewi and Andrea Calver to class warriors like Wayne Samuelson. While other candidates have made bonehead moves that alienate key constituencies (like Bisson's opposition to the Endangered Species Act or Tabuns' praise for high electricity rates) Andrea's avoided these traps and shown that she can be a provincial leader - not a spokesperson for a constituency.

- Andrea has put the jobs crisis front and centre. She has earned the support of workers and their unions (she's got more endorsements from organized labour then the other candidates combined) not just because she has put a lot of thought into protecting the manufacturing sector and creating new jobs  but because she's promised to stand with them when the going gets tough - and it will be getting tough very soon.

- Andrea is charming, funny and quick. That's a subjective call and people have had a chance to see the candidates in action and can make their own calls. Having canvassed - like a good New Democrat - in the by-elections where both were first elected I can say, with confidence, that Andrea inspired a fevered devotion in her potential constituents and Tabuns invoked a shrug.

- Scott Piatkowski supports her. And he's never wrong.

ETA: His name is spelled correctly.

Sunday Hat

I don't think Bisson's vote makes him an anti-environmentalist. I do think the fact that he alienated a boatload of environmentalists with his actions a little boneheaded - though maybe not as boneheaded as Tabuns call for higher hydro rates. If Tabuns wins the leadership expect Liberals to raise that over and over and over.

Gilles Bisson has talked about the economy a lot - but his argument that New Democrats should join the business community in calling for lower corporate taxes and less "red tape" is the wrong way to go. I don't think we gain anything by abandonning our principles. Particularly now, when the NDP's critique of blind faith in the market looks more and more accurate.

ETA: I've responded to a phantom comment. It's vanished.

Bookish Agrarian

I agree NWL. 

I have addressed Gilles voting against the ESA a few times before.  It is a majorly flawed bill that places the entire economic burden of saving species on the individual landowner that had the foresight to protect the habit that the rest of us destroyed.  Dumb-ass stupid doesn't come close to describing how poor the Act is.  Gilles deserves credit, not condemnation for doing the right thing on that bill.

Stockholm

Gee, I guess that makes Bisson leader of the Randy Hillier wing of the ONDP. Isn't that almost exactly the line he is always taking?

Bookish Agrarian

Horseshit.  This was a completely flawed act.  Many, many progressive rural people opposed this bill.  If you want to be that way you could claim that those who supported this legislation were the reactionary ones since they were using the power of the state to impose this act on individuals without any democratic representation.

However, I see it more that this was urban people just not getting the reality of what rural Ontario actually looks like and why it is that these spots have become the last refuge of these species.

synthome

Scott: "But maybe, just maybe, they have a point and she really is the best candidate. There are certainly more and better reasons to vote for Andrea than gender, age and geography; The Star just didn't bother to note them (or to look up the correct spelling of her name)."
 
No one is suggesting that Andrea is evil, but when you dine with the devil you had better have a long spoon. Kidding aside, and this only further highlights a major drawback of not having a critical left friendly voice in the MSM (trotting out Linda McQuaig once in a while is only pretense on the part of The Star).
We know the editorial board of the Star has become increasingly brazen and unequivocal in its support for the Liberals.  And it's not only motivated by the fear of Harper's Reform Conservatism. The Star endorses neoliberalism. It should have been a campaign expense for the Liberals in the last provincial election. More recently, The Star has even actively joined in the chorus against labour and the left in this province. Their recent coverage of the CUPE 3903 strike was simply appalling.

 So, in an article whose subtext, as you rightly point out, is to pillory the ONDP, the editorial board "tepidly" and on the back of completely feeble reasoning come out in support of Andrea Horwath. Can you imagine Andrea running on that basis? "Vote for me: I'm young, I haven't the mettle yet to be leader but will grow in office. Not only that, have I mentioned that I'm a woman? Moreover, are you aware that I'm from Hamilton? What's that? policy you say? I'll stick with the old tried and true middle road tricks that have almost reduced us to total obscurity." Seems to me The Star does "really" see her as the best candidate, but in whose best interests? The ONDP or the Liberal Party of Ontario?

Andrea of course is not evil, in fact she's quite a wonderful person, as frankly, are all the candidates. That they knock themselves out seeking political office would be enough to earn my respect, but to put themselves out there for the leadership (while a great opportunity, seems like mostly thankless and heavily scrutinized work that must make being an MPP a walk in the park by comparison) is deserving of much respect. But the Liberals are evil and worthy of being approached with caution.

northwestern_lad

As for what happened to my comments, that's wierd.... i'm not sure why they went all ghost on me. I'd say it's a conspiracy, but that's not my way... hehe Laughing

northwestern_lad

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

I agree NWL. 

I have addressed Gilles voting against the ESA a few times before.  It is a majorly flawed bill that places the entire economic burden of saving species on the individual landowner that had the foresight to protect the habit that the rest of us destroyed.  Dumb-ass stupid doesn't come close to describing how poor the Act is.  Gilles deserves credit, not condemnation for doing the right thing on that bill.

 

Thanks for agreeing

northwestern_lad

Sunday Hat wrote:

Gilles Bisson has talked about the economy a lot - but his argument that New Democrats should join the business community in calling for lower corporate taxes and less "red tape" is the wrong way to go. I don't think we gain anything by abandonning our principles. Particularly now, when the NDP's critique of blind faith in the market looks more and more accurate.

ETA: I've responded to a phantom comment. It's vanished.

I would point out that Bisson has not called for corporate tax cuts and less "red tape" across the board or anything like that. What he has been talking about is taking a more moderate approach to such things and less absolute. Also, he's talked about doing anything like that as a trade off for other things, like job guarantees, anti-scab legislation, better environmental protect by industry and better labour laws. As he's said, he's talking about all of this stuff in the context of Corporate Ontario's duties to the people of the province. He's not talking about blind give-aways like the Liberals and Tories have done, what he's been talking about is using things like corporate tax cuts in some situations almost like bargaining chips. That seems to me to be very much in line with the party policy of making sure that guarantees are attached to any money going out the door. I wouldn't call that selling out principle; I would call that making use of everything a government has at it's disposal.

George Victor

Listening to three candidates yesterday (Tabuns had a prior commitment in his home riding), did not make the big decision any easier. They're good.  And as one observed, that's what 41 "debates" will do for your presentation style.

But what I have finally decided , by reading people's comments on Star articles the past couple of days, and views on the Globe and Mail, and a discussion with Gilles Bisson about what it takes to get some lineage in the north country - between elections and at election time - I've decided that now is not the time to think about radical innovation. First develop a structure prepared for battle.

The point was well made that New Democrats have to stop being centered on the legislature and be creative, putting forward innovative proposals, be pro-active. 

But who is going to learn of change in all its complexity if there is not a solid network of well-financed riding associations with IT put to active work across the land informing all, not waiting, helplessly, for a paid-for and increasingly ad-desperate MSM to decide, for some masochistic reason unrelated to their business, to come on board?

In the simplest terms possible, I'm putting the organizing horse up front of the cart with its baggage of political innovation(and yes, I know what Gilles has done in Timmins) , looking to see an influx of youth and a wider representation of our changing demographics at the riding level.

And information.

So it's Andrea.

scarboroughnative

Toronto Star endorsment = kiss of death.  However, its gotta make the Tabuns and Prue camps a little bit nervous.  Will Horwath cut into their base?

scarboroughnative

FYI

 

http://trssastt.blogspot.com/2009/02/well-since-toronto-star-endorsed-an...

 

Well, since the Toronto Star endorsed Andrea Horwath...

 

...it clearly follows that Dippers should not elect her party leader.

Indeed, I'm not sure why the Horwath campaign is touting this endorsement as anything significant. To call it "tepid" would be an insult to lukewarm tea. They trash Hampton as "too confrontational" -- seriously, Howard Hampton? -- and "too northern" -- whatever that means (can we call McGuinty and Tory "too southern", then?). They list three candidates that they'd rather have in the race, only one of whom they give reason to believe is actually in the party. And they say "none" of the four candidates are inspiring (again, whatever that means).

Gilles Bisson is dismissed as, again, "too northern". I have to wonder, really, whether this is some sort of anti-francophone bias, or possibly anti-rural; it's really inexplicable otherwise. Bisson is articulate, clever, and has clearly thought about what needs to be done to push the ONDP forward. Michael Prue supposedly questioned the party's decision to delay passage of the York U bill, which, as far as I can tell, is a flat lie: Prue wanted the government to defend the need for the bill, and said he would support it if that defense was forthcoming (shocking news: it wasn't). Other than that, he's called "hackneyed" -- because of his campaign slogan. What are they going to criticize next, his voice? His haircut? Peter Tabuns is called a one-issue candidate, with a heavy focus on energy policy -- which is grossly unfair, as all four are pushing environmental issues, as is typical for the NDP.

So, why pick Andrea Horwath? She's young, from southern Ontario, and female. Seriously. That's their reasoning.

Why is the Horwath campaign proud of this "endorsement"?

Labels: , ,

Sunday Hat

As already noted, the Star endorsement might not help Andrea tremendously but I'd argue it's a serious blow to Tabuns and Prue who are dismissed as "hackneyed" and "single issue" respectively.

I think the conspiracy theory that the Star is endorsing Andrea out of some secret desire to sink the NDP is too crazy to take seriously.

I think the theory that media doesn't matter is also a little off base.

It's not a roaring endorsement of any candidate but, it's a really SOUND rejection of the two Toronto candidates.

Stockholm

I wouldn't be surprised if Horwath wins. If you aren't personally acquainted with the candidates and if you aren't intensely involved in the campaign - she would give the impression of representing novelty etc... I just hope that she actually does represent novelty and not just the impression of representing novelty.

synthome

"the Star is endorsing Andrea out of some secret desire to sink the NDP is too crazy to take seriously."

Not a conspiracy since there's nothing secret about The Star's allegiances and desire vis a vis the NDP. The Star has been brazenly undermining the NDP's credibility for a long time.  Whether their choice of Andrea is so motivated is anyone's guess, but I don't think anyone could fail to see that the article is broadly and foremost an unflattering portrayal of the ONDP.

As far as "a really sound rejection of the two Toronto candidates", seems that the editorial board undermines any and all credibility in that regard when it proffers such a superficial appraisal and unreasoned endorsement of Horwath. Unless, of course, you find The Star's reasons compelling ones upon which to base a choice for the next leader of the ONDP.

ottawaobserver

Stockholm wrote:

I think Tabuns is the most intelligent of the candidates and has the best grasp of the issues - and despite all the focus on image - I think that being very smart is a major factor in being a good leader. 

In general, I tend to agree with Stockholm on the criteria for choosing a candidate.

However, I will say I am aghast to find that ... even after they all PROMISED in the Ottawa leadership debate to do better ... the final pitches coming out of the Tabuns and Prue campaigns have been in English only.  Horwath's last one contained a french translation at the bottom (although the subject line was in English only), and of course Bisson's campaign materials have been bilingual all the way through.

I wrote back once to Tabuns' campaign about this ... to no response.  I've just written again to say that if they don't take the time to reply this time, I'll withdraw my support for his campaign.

It's not nothing that someone from Ottawa was prepared to support a Toronto candidate, in spite of how we get treated by Provincial Office.  Sadly, the continued unwillingness to follow through on a commitment to communicate in both official languages by the Toronto candidates' campaigns does give pause for thought.

Prue phoned through again the other day in English and French, but again the French was unpracticed and halting.  Regardless, he lost me in the Ottawa forum when he flipped out at the other candidates, so I'm not sure he could have won me back regardless.

madmax

The Toronto Star article is a slurr against the NDP.  Take a bunch of potshots, say there could be something better in the choices, undermine those in TO, write off a Northerner, and then underwhelmingly support Andrea and spell her name wrong.

I wouldn't put anything into the article.  The Star had nothing good to say, which is on par with their Liberal Bias.  The Star is as irrellavent to the NDP as the NDP is irrellavante to the Star.

I can see them taking potshots at whomever becomes the NDP leader in March. Even if it is Andrea, they will continue to say bad things about the NDP, and if it is the other choices, they will have a 3 in 4 shot of undermining that choice of the NDP.

I think the NDP should be happy with any coverage of the Star, as no news is the worst news. Bad News is better, and Good News the Best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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