Federal NDP Candidates 2015

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Debater

As Eric Grenier says in the analysis above, the NDP does have the chance to retain Acadie-Bathhurst, but the Liberals also have a chance to win it back.  As Grenier points out, the NDP has the worst numbers in the Maritimes since 2000 and so the next NDP candidate in A-B will be at risk of losing unless the Mulcair NDP gets its overall numbers up in the region.

Remember that in 2011, the Layton NDP got 30% of the vote in NB and the Liberals only got 22%.  Now the Liberals are at about 46% in NB and the NDP are at about 17%.  Big shift from 2011.

And then there's the Francophone vote.  Francophones are the majority in A-B.  They voted for Brian Gallant provincially.  If they vote for Trudeau federally, the Liberals can win A-B back.  Presumably Trudeau is leading Mulcair among Francophones based on the current numbers, but as Grenier says at his website, we don't have a federal linguistic breakdown for NB yet.

Wilf Day

Adam T wrote:

Banker Francois Beaulne was a star candidate for the NDP in Quebec in 1988 and was a cabinet mininster in the PQ government, though not as senior a cabinet minister as another 1988 star candidate turned PQ MNA Remy Trudel.

He's a pretty impressive candidate, though he must be pretty old by now (not that ageism should enter into this).  

Good to see him embrace federalism again.


Born 28 November 1946. Just a young'un. :)

terrytowel

On Battleground David Akin is hearing rumblings that former Ont NDP leader Howard Hampton is considering taking on Cabinet minister Greg Rickford in the riding of Kenora.

Hampton held that riding provincially. But Rickford won the federal riding due to vote splitting (Twice!) between the Liberals and NDP.

Akin mused on the air that if Hampton goes for it, he will tell voters the only way to send a message to Stephen Harper, is not to vote Liberal.

ctrl190

terrytowel wrote:

On Battleground David Akin is hearing rumblings that former Ont NDP leader Howard Hampton is considering taking on Cabinet minister Greg Rickford in the riding of Kenora.

I'm pretty sure Hampton lives full time now in Toronto working at a Bay Street law firm. But he would be hard to beat if he threw his hat in the ring. Hampton would bring a wealth of experience and help shore up support in Northern Ontario, especially after the Thibeault defection.  

greyscale

Linda McQuaig is officially in the race for Toronto Centre!

NorthReport

Sweet! Smile

adma

terrytowel wrote:
Hampton held that riding provincially. But Rickford won the federal riding due to vote splitting (Twice!) between the Liberals and NDP.

Yeah, but by that standard, you might as well claim that his predecessor, the Liberals' Roger Valley. won due to vote splitting (Twice!) between the Conservatives and NDP.

Indeed, given that Rickford's last mandate was 47% (and before that 40%--Valley never got above 36.5%), you're pressing it by playing the "vote splitting" card, even if Lib and NDP combined still outpolled Rickford...

janfromthebruce

2014 11 05 Howard Hampton appointed NDP special advisor for the Ring of Fire

After years of inaction by the federal and provincial governments, New Democrats are reinforcing their commitment to the Ring of Fire with the appointment of Howard Hampton who will act as the NDP’s Special Advisor to the project.  

“The Ring of Fire is a once in a generation opportunity to reshape Northern Ontario,” said NDP Leader Tom Mulcair. “We need someone who understands the North, who understands Queen’s Park, and who knows how to get things done. That person is Howard Hampton.”

terrytowel

adma wrote:

terrytowel wrote:
Hampton held that riding provincially. But Rickford won the federal riding due to vote splitting (Twice!) between the Liberals and NDP.

Yeah, but by that standard, you might as well claim that his predecessor, the Liberals' Roger Valley. won due to vote splitting (Twice!) between the Conservatives and NDP.

Indeed, given that Rickford's last mandate was 47% (and before that 40%--Valley never got above 36.5%), you're pressing it by playing the "vote splitting" card, even if Lib and NDP combined still outpolled Rickford...

But as David Akin said on Battleground, all Hampton has to do is tell voters the only way to send a message to Stephen Harper, is not to vote Liberal.

Brachina

janfromthebruce wrote:

2014 11 05 Howard Hampton appointed NDP special advisor for the Ring of Fire

After years of inaction by the federal and provincial governments, New Democrats are reinforcing their commitment to the Ring of Fire with the appointment of Howard Hampton who will act as the NDP’s Special Advisor to the project.  

“The Ring of Fire is a once in a generation opportunity to reshape Northern Ontario,” said NDP Leader Tom Mulcair. “We need someone who understands the North, who understands Queen’s Park, and who knows how to get things done. That person is Howard Hampton.”

 

 Howard was a horrible campaigner, but it was a really good man with a heart the size of Ontario and he knew his shit too, he's a good pick.

adma

Brachina wrote:
 Howard was a horrible campaigner,

Province-wide, not locally--after all, he cracked 60% in Kenora his last two tries.

Oh, and re Howie potentially playing the "strategic" card: remember that there's a fair sized pool of "Hampton Tories" (or "Rickford Dippers") out there.

Marco C

I'm happy Howard is on the team going forward, I hope he runs too.

 

I always liked him, super nice person the one time I met him and really dedicated social activist, I wont comment on his leadership of the ONDP because I was still in high school at the time, but coming after Bob Rae I don't think his perfomance as a campaigner should be judged harshly.

BetterOnTheLeft

Just found out that in Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, the Liberals will be nominating Lawrence Joseph... who came in second for the NDP! any idea a) why he bolted and b) if the NDP has any strong candidates in the running.

BTW that the thid time i've heard an NDP candidate switch to the Liberals in this riding... Joan Beatty in 2008 who was a former NDP MLA, Rick Laliberte was a former NDP MP who went Liberal and now Lawrence Joseph.

 

trotwood73

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

Just found out that in Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, the Liberals will be nominating Lawrence Joseph... who came in second for the NDP! any idea a) why he bolted and b) if the NDP has any strong candidates in the running.

BTW that the thid time i've heard an NDP candidate switch to the Liberals in this riding... Joan Beatty in 2008 who was a former NDP MLA, Rick Laliberte was a former NDP MP who went Liberal and now Lawrence Joseph.

This has already been discussed in the Liberal Candidates thread, starting around post #563.

 

BetterOnTheLeft

trotwood73 wrote:

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

Just found out that in Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, the Liberals will be nominating Lawrence Joseph... who came in second for the NDP! any idea a) why he bolted and b) if the NDP has any strong candidates in the running.

BTW that the thid time i've heard an NDP candidate switch to the Liberals in this riding... Joan Beatty in 2008 who was a former NDP MLA, Rick Laliberte was a former NDP MP who went Liberal and now Lawrence Joseph.

This has already been discussed in the Liberal Candidates thread, starting around post #563.

 

Thanks... smacks me of opportunism... and again, insulting to Layton's memory... Looks like Glen Thibeault took some notes from Joseph.

Brachina

 Jack would be rolling over in his grave.

nicky

Quite a history of Liberal raiding in Desnethe. Significantly both Liberal turncoats lost decisively so far. Let's hope Thibeault and Joseph have the same reward for their defections.

adma

nicky wrote:

Quite a history of Liberal raiding in Desnethe. Significantly both Liberal turncoats lost decisively so far. Let's hope Thibeault and Joseph have the same reward for their defections.

Actually, Rick Laliberte won reelection as a Liberal in 2000.  It's only when he became Independent in 2004 that he was trounced...

David Young

Lunenburg County teacher Alex Godbold has announced his intention to seek the NDP nomination in South Shore-St. Margaret's.

He joins Courtney Wentzell, the former Union president at the Bowater Mersey paper mill in Brooklyn, Queens County, in the nomination race.

Stay tuned!

 

greyscale

David Young wrote:

Lunenburg County teacher Alex Godbold has announced his intention to seek the NDP nomination in South Shore-St. Margaret's.

He joins Courtney Wentzell, the former Union president at the Bowater Mersey paper mill in Brooklyn, Queens County, in the nomination race.

Stay tuned!

Hasn't Pam Birdsall also announced her candidacy for the nomination as well? 

BetterOnTheLeft

greyscale wrote:

David Young wrote:

Lunenburg County teacher Alex Godbold has announced his intention to seek the NDP nomination in South Shore-St. Margaret's.

He joins Courtney Wentzell, the former Union president at the Bowater Mersey paper mill in Brooklyn, Queens County, in the nomination race.

Stay tuned!

Hasn't Pam Birdsall also announced her candidacy for the nomination as well? 

 

All I found was an article from almost a year ago saying she was 
http://www.southshorenow.ca/en/20140205/News/16836/Former-Lunenburg-MLA-...

I was wondering of more fromer NSNDP MLAs would run federally?  

David Young

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

greyscale wrote:

David Young wrote:

Lunenburg County teacher Alex Godbold has announced his intention to seek the NDP nomination in South Shore-St. Margaret's.

He joins Courtney Wentzell, the former Union president at the Bowater Mersey paper mill in Brooklyn, Queens County, in the nomination race.

Stay tuned!

Hasn't Pam Birdsall also announced her candidacy for the nomination as well? 

 

All I found was an article from almost a year ago saying she was 
http://www.southshorenow.ca/en/20140205/News/16836/Former-Lunenburg-MLA-...

I was wondering of more fromer NSNDP MLAs would run federally?  

Pam did announce that she would be seeking the nomination, but then her business began to prosper once she returned from her M.L.A. duties, and she decided to withdraw from the nomination race a few months later.

As for other former M.L.A.'s running federally, I've heard rumblings that former Hants East M.L.A. and cabinet minister John MacDonnell may be looking at seeking the nomination in Kings-Hants.

 

scott16

Trudeau has another challenger in Papineau.

https://twitter.com/BeatriceZako/status/558132493451530240/photo/1

Can any Montrealers tell me about her? And how well known she is?

scott16

Windsor-Tecumseh is now a contested nomination. Bruce Moncur, fmr. Con and veteran, and Cheryl Hardcastle.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/cheryl-hardcastle-to-seek-federal-ndp-...

BetterOnTheLeft

scott16 wrote:

Trudeau has another challenger in Papineau.

https://twitter.com/BeatriceZako/status/558132493451530240/photo/1

Can any Montrealers tell me about her? And how well known she is?

Her twitter says she's a former mayoral candidate in the local borourgh under the Melanie Joy group ... little rusty on the rest
" Ex-candidate Maire d'arr. VSMPE Présidente du Regroupement Ivoiro Canadien Membre de Medécins du Monde" To me she sounds like a good candidate on paper

trotwood73

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

scott16 wrote:

Trudeau has another challenger in Papineau.

https://twitter.com/BeatriceZako/status/558132493451530240/photo/1

Can any Montrealers tell me about her? And how well known she is?

Her twitter says she's a former mayoral candidate in the local borourgh under the Melanie Joy group ... little rusty on the rest
" Ex-candidate Maire d'arr. VSMPE Présidente du Regroupement Ivoiro Canadien Membre de Medécins du Monde" To me she sounds like a good candidate on paper

Yeah, she ran with "Vrai changement Montreal - Equipe Mélanie Joly". It's a bit ironic that Ms. Zako is running federally for the NDP, but municipally, she ran for Joly who was Trudeau's Quebec leadership campaign manager. Joly has VERY strong Liberal ties (her father, step-mother).

However, Ms. Zako is not the only official party-approved candidate. There is at least one other who had not been mentionned here.

Stockholm

Isnt Marco Tejeda the Dominican activist who ran for the NDP against Trudeau in 2011 also seeking the nomination again?

Debater

Yes, Marcos Tejada has been running for the NDP nomination in Papineau since last year.  He was the first NDP candidate to announce.  I wonder what he thinks of another challenger entering the race this late?

Debater

And on the topic of Quebec ridings, Mario Beaulieu has finally chosen his riding - La Pointe-de-l'Ille.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/429893/mario-beaulieu-sera-cand...

ajaykumar

Trudeau cannot be defetaed in Papineau simply because of the large muslim populcation. Fun Fact: I used to live in Papineau. 

David Young

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

Just found out that in Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, the Liberals will be nominating Lawrence Joseph... who came in second for the NDP! any idea a) why he bolted and b) if the NDP has any strong candidates in the running.

BTW that the thid time i've heard an NDP candidate switch to the Liberals in this riding... Joan Beatty in 2008 who was a former NDP MLA, Rick Laliberte was a former NDP MP who went Liberal and now Lawrence Joseph.

 

This reminds me of when the Bloc took in Christelle Bogasta and Gilles Rocheleau as candidates in 2011, trumpeting their defections from the NDP as a sign of NDP weakness.

Now will someone remind me about what happened to them!!!!!

 

ajaykumar

David Young wrote:

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

Just found out that in Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, the Liberals will be nominating Lawrence Joseph... who came in second for the NDP! any idea a) why he bolted and b) if the NDP has any strong candidates in the running.

BTW that the thid time i've heard an NDP candidate switch to the Liberals in this riding... Joan Beatty in 2008 who was a former NDP MLA, Rick Laliberte was a former NDP MP who went Liberal and now Lawrence Joseph.

 

MaryAnn Mihychuk is also a former NDP MLA running for my liberal party

This reminds me of when the Bloc took in Christelle Bogasta and Gilles Rocheleau as candidates in 2011, trumpeting their defections from the NDP as a sign of NDP weakness.

Now will someone remind me about what happened to them!!!!!

 

David Young

ajaykumar wrote:

David Young wrote:

BetterOnTheLeft wrote:

Just found out that in Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, the Liberals will be nominating Lawrence Joseph... who came in second for the NDP! any idea a) why he bolted and b) if the NDP has any strong candidates in the running.

BTW that the thid time i've heard an NDP candidate switch to the Liberals in this riding... Joan Beatty in 2008 who was a former NDP MLA, Rick Laliberte was a former NDP MP who went Liberal and now Lawrence Joseph.

 

MaryAnn Mihychuk is also a former NDP MLA running for my liberal party

This reminds me of when the Bloc took in Christelle Bogasta and Gilles Rocheleau as candidates in 2011, trumpeting their defections from the NDP as a sign of NDP weakness.

Now will someone remind me about what happened to them!!!!!

 

We had a former provincial NDP candidate run as the federal Liberal candidate here in South Shore-St. Margaret's in the 2008 election, and Stephane Dion was here during the campaign trumpeting the defection as a sign of the decline of NDP fortunes...and Smith lost...badly.   Meanwhile, the NDP went on to take power provincially in 2009.

Anyone who thinks former NDP candidates running for other parties is a sign of weakness is mistaken!

Now, again, remind me about what happened to the fortunes of Bogasta and Rocheleau when then became B.Q. candidates?

 

Debater

Here's a relevant question to ask at this juncture.

Why is it that NDP supporters get so angry when a former NDP candidate decides to run for another party?  That candidate is usually called all sorts of names and is branded as a traitor, an opportunist and a vile human being.  Recent examples include Lawrence Joseph and MaryAnn Mihychuk.

NDP supporters on these threads have called for these people's heads.  So why is it then okay when former candidates from another party decide to run for the NDP?  Why are they not considered traitors and opportunists and people of questionable character?  Why are people here not calling for NDP MP Francoise Boivin to be burned at the stake for betraying the Liberals by switching parties?  She's a former Liberal MP.  Shouldn't she be obligated to forever support the party she first signed onto?

That seems to be the rule where NDP candidates are concerned.  Why is this rule not applied equally across the board to candidates who switch from other parties?

greyscale

Debater wrote:

Here's a relevant question to ask at this juncture.

Why is it that NDP supporters get so angry when a former NDP candidate decides to run for another party?  That candidate is usually called all sorts of names and is branded as a traitor, an opportunist and a vile human being.  Recent examples include Lawrence Joseph and MaryAnn Mihychuk.

NDP supporters on these threads have called for these people's heads.  So why is it then okay when former candidates from another party decide to run for the NDP?  Why are they not considered traitors and opportunists and people of questionable character?  Why are people here not calling for NDP MP Francoise Boivin to be burned at the stake for betraying the Liberals by switching parties?  She's a former Liberal MP.  Shouldn't she be obligated to forever support the party she first signed onto?

That seems to be the rule where NDP candidates are concerned.  Why is this rule not applied equally across the board to candidates who switch from other parties?

 

As an NDP supporter, I also struggle with this, because while I think you are overexaggerating in your above statement, you are nonetheless correct when you say that the NDP as an institution gets very aggressive when candidates/MPs switch parties. At least, a lot more so than other parties. I believe this is because of the NDP's unique situation in the political landscape as it pertains to the other political parties. As much as people fight and bicker about it, the truth is that the NDP has a different history, purpose, and philosophy than the Liberals and Conservatives. The NDP is supposed to be a grassroots party that is decidedly anti-elite and focused on fighting inequalities. The Liberals and Conservatives are parties steeped in an elitist, upper class history that have the same classical liberalism as their guiding philosophy.

Therefore, while "Liberal, Tory, same old story" IS an NDP strategic slogan, it also partially highlights the truth that, in some respects, the Liberals and Conservatives share things that the NDP is not supposed to share. Therefore, when a candidate or MP can easily switch allegiances, it is not only bad for the NDP because they lose a person, but also because it shows that the former candidate/MP no longer subscribes to the uniqueness of the NDP as a foil for classical liberalism. Theoretically, it should be easy to switch between Liberal and Conservative, because the way you approach an issue can change, but your underlying worldview and value system should remain fairly constant. From this perspective, it should take a complete overhaul of a person's guiding principles to be able to go from NDP -> Lib/Con or vice versa. This is why floor crossing is against NDP party principles, and why it especially angers the NDP.

Debater

1.  Justin Ling wrote a column about this a while back that highlighted what you pointed out - that the NDP gets more aggressive than other parties when someone switches over to someone else.  Ling said that the NDP is kind of like the mafia - "you don't get to just leave. . .".  It was meant to be kind of humorous, but also to make a point.  So that's why I wrote my own post in a somewhat dramatic and humorous fashion, but also wanted to point out an NDP bias that exists here.  The question is, will other NDP supporters acknowledge it?  For example, just because Lawrence Joseph ran for the NDP once under Jack Layton doesn't mean the party owns him.  If he prefers Justin Trudeau's leadership to Tom Mulcair's, that doesn't make him a bad person.  It's not like he crossed the floor or was an elected member - he just changed his mind in between one election and another when there was a change of leaders.  If he doesn't have the right to do that, then Francoise Boivin shouldn't have had the right to ever change from the Liberals to the NDP.

2.  It's not the case that the Liberals and the Conservatives are the same - they are very different and have different histories, polices & leaders.  And the Conservatives consider the Liberals left-wing and still attack the Liberals on that basis.  If they were ideologically the same, Harper wouldn't have made it his goal of trying to destroy the Liberal Party.  He views the Liberals as a threat because he knows they stand for different principles.  Is there some overlap in some areas of economic policy between blue liberals & red tories?  Sure.  But there's also overlap between the NDP & the Conservatives on certain issues.  And it angers Liberals when they are called Conservatives - particularly left-leaning Liberals like myself who share certain values with the NDP and who have even voted NDP on occasion over the decades.

Aristotleded24

greyscale wrote:
Debater wrote:

Here's a relevant question to ask at this juncture.

Why is it that NDP supporters get so angry when a former NDP candidate decides to run for another party?  That candidate is usually called all sorts of names and is branded as a traitor, an opportunist and a vile human being.  Recent examples include Lawrence Joseph and MaryAnn Mihychuk.

NDP supporters on these threads have called for these people's heads.  So why is it then okay when former candidates from another party decide to run for the NDP?  Why are they not considered traitors and opportunists and people of questionable character?  Why are people here not calling for NDP MP Francoise Boivin to be burned at the stake for betraying the Liberals by switching parties?  She's a former Liberal MP.  Shouldn't she be obligated to forever support the party she first signed onto?

That seems to be the rule where NDP candidates are concerned.  Why is this rule not applied equally across the board to candidates who switch from other parties?

 

As an NDP supporter, I also struggle with this, because while I think you are overexaggerating in your above statement, you are nonetheless correct when you say that the NDP as an institution gets very aggressive when candidates/MPs switch parties. At least, a lot more so than other parties.

I thought that the NDP's reaction to Bruce Hyer joining the Greens was quite petty and I said so here at the time.

Debater

On the topic of NDP nominations, MP Jean Crowder reports tonight:

The NDP candidate for #cowichanmalahatlangford is Alistair Macgregor

https://twitter.com/JeanCrowder/status/559499873548914688

greyscale

Debater wrote:

1.  Justin Ling wrote a column about this a while back that highlighted what you pointed out - that the NDP gets more aggressive than other parties when someone switches over to someone else.  Ling said that the NDP is kind of like the mafia - "you don't get to just leave. . .".  It was meant to be kind of humorous, but also to make a point.  So that's why I wrote my own post in a somewhat dramatic and humorous fashion, but also wanted to point out an NDP bias that exists here.  The question is, will other NDP supporters acknowledge it?  For example, just because Lawrence Joseph ran for the NDP once under Jack Layton doesn't mean the party owns him.  If he prefers Justin Trudeau's leadership to Tom Mulcair's, that doesn't make him a bad person.  It's not like he crossed the floor or was an elected member - he just changed his mind in between one election and another when there was a change of leaders.  If he doesn't have the right to do that, then Francoise Boivin shouldn't have had the right to ever change from the Liberals to the NDP.

2.  It's not the case that the Liberals and the Conservatives are the same - they are very different and have different histories, polices & leaders.  And the Conservatives consider the Liberals left-wing and still attack the Liberals on that basis.  If they were ideologically the same, Harper wouldn't have made it his goal of trying to destroy the Liberal Party.  He views the Liberals as a threat because he knows they stand for different principles.  Is there some overlap in some areas of economic policy between blue liberals & red tories?  Sure.  But there's also overlap between the NDP & the Conservatives on certain issues.  And it angers Liberals when they are called Conservatives - particularly left-leaning Liberals like myself who share certain values with the NDP and who have even voted NDP on occasion over the decades.

 

1. Yes, I also read that article. Also, I'm sure you realize at this point that you do not need to point out the NDP bias here - it's a progressive board. It's evident, everyone knows it. I by no means think that the party "owns" candidates like Lawrence Joseph, but the fact remains that if you are able to nimbly jump from the NDP to the Liberals from one week to another, then (at least for me) it means you either A) fundamentally did not understand the NDP's values when you signed on, or B) you fundamentally don't understand the Liberal's values. It's normal to be frustrated by this, but the NDP as an institution needs to stop showing that frustration. It's unbecoming.

2. I never said the Liberals and Conservatives are the same. Obviously there are differences. But they are quite close together from a political theory perspective, far far closer than either are to the NDP. They share a classicly liberal philosophy. They share the same understanding of the market. Your point about Harper makes no sense; of course he would try to destroy the Liberal party if they were ideaologically the same: then he could harvest all of those classic liberal votes. Of course it should anger Liberals when they are called Conservatives - they aren't. But they are certainly liberal, and so are the Conservatives. That shouldn't anger them - its' the truth.

greyscale

Debater wrote:

1.  Justin Ling wrote a column about this a while back that highlighted what you pointed out - that the NDP gets more aggressive than other parties when someone switches over to someone else.  Ling said that the NDP is kind of like the mafia - "you don't get to just leave. . .".  It was meant to be kind of humorous, but also to make a point.  So that's why I wrote my own post in a somewhat dramatic and humorous fashion, but also wanted to point out an NDP bias that exists here.  The question is, will other NDP supporters acknowledge it?  For example, just because Lawrence Joseph ran for the NDP once under Jack Layton doesn't mean the party owns him.  If he prefers Justin Trudeau's leadership to Tom Mulcair's, that doesn't make him a bad person.  It's not like he crossed the floor or was an elected member - he just changed his mind in between one election and another when there was a change of leaders.  If he doesn't have the right to do that, then Francoise Boivin shouldn't have had the right to ever change from the Liberals to the NDP.

2.  It's not the case that the Liberals and the Conservatives are the same - they are very different and have different histories, polices & leaders.  And the Conservatives consider the Liberals left-wing and still attack the Liberals on that basis.  If they were ideologically the same, Harper wouldn't have made it his goal of trying to destroy the Liberal Party.  He views the Liberals as a threat because he knows they stand for different principles.  Is there some overlap in some areas of economic policy between blue liberals & red tories?  Sure.  But there's also overlap between the NDP & the Conservatives on certain issues.  And it angers Liberals when they are called Conservatives - particularly left-leaning Liberals like myself who share certain values with the NDP and who have even voted NDP on occasion over the decades.

 

1. Yes, I also read that article. Also, I'm sure you realize at this point that you do not need to point out the NDP bias here - it's a progressive board. It's evident, everyone knows it. I by no means think that the party "owns" candidates like Lawrence Joseph, but the fact remains that if you are able to nimbly jump from the NDP to the Liberals from one week to another, then (at least for me) it means you either A) fundamentally did not understand the NDP's values when you signed on, or B) you fundamentally don't understand the Liberal's values. It's normal to be frustrated by this, but the NDP as an institution needs to stop showing that frustration. It's unbecoming.

2. I never said the Liberals and Conservatives are the same. Obviously there are differences. But they are quite close together from a political theory perspective, far far closer than either are to the NDP. They share a classicly liberal philosophy. They share the same understanding of the market. Your point about Harper makes no sense; of course he would try to destroy the Liberal party if they were ideaologically the same: then he could harvest all of those classic liberal votes. Of course it should anger Liberals when they are called Conservatives - they aren't. But they are certainly liberal, and so are the Conservatives. That shouldn't anger them - its' the truth.

Debater

1.  Well I would agree that if someone is moving back & forth from one party to another very casually it would be grounds for criticism.  But we're not talking about someone changing from one week to another.  We're talking about candidates who made the change once -- that is candidates who ran for one party and then in the following election decided to run for a different party because of a different leader or some other type of fundamental change.  And as I said, we need to distinguish between candidates like Lawrence Joseph who haven't been elected as MP's yet, versus those who were elected MP's that were part of a caucus and then suddenly walked out on their colleagues (eg. Glenn Thibeault).  The latter is worthy of some criticism, certainly.  But on some of these threads it seems like everyone gets lumped in together.

2.  If you mean that the NDP is formed more out of social activism and more from an anti-establishment perspective, that is true.  And it's also true that there are some different historical origins involved, naturally.  For example, the Liberals have been around since Confederation.  As have the Conservatives (in some form).  The NDP arose more than half a century later out of the CCF.  However, in terms of overall policies and governing, the Liberals & NDP are considered closer to one another than they are to the Conservatives.  It's much more common in Canada anyway for the Liberals & NDP to form governing arrangements.

Eg.  L.B. Pearson & D. Lewis in the 1960's

P.E. Trudeau & D. Lewis in the 1970's

B. Rae & D. Peterson provincially in Ontario the 1980's

Martin & Layton over the 2005 Federal budget

Layton & Dion tentatively in December 2008

Wynne & Horwath in Ontario from 2013-2014

In addition, many Liberal & NDP voters consider their parties more likely working partners than they do the Conservatives.  And the Conservatives themselves, as well as the press, certainly consider the Liberals & NDP potential partners.  Look at how Justin Trudeau & Tom Mulcair keep getting asked about whether they will work together.  As did their predecessors.

greyscale

Debater wrote:

1.  Well I would agree that if someone is moving back & forth from one party to another very casually it would be grounds for criticism.  But we're not talking about someone changing from one week to another.  We're talking about candidates who made the change once -- that is candidates who ran for one party and then in the following election decided to run for a different party because of a different leader or some other type of fundamental change.  And as I said, we need to distinguish between candidates like Lawrence Joseph who haven't been elected as MP's yet, versus those who were elected MP's that were part of a caucus and then suddenly walked out on their colleagues (eg. Glenn Thibeault).  The latter is worthy of some criticism, certainly.  But on some of these threads it seems like everyone gets lumped in together.

2.  If you mean that the NDP is formed more out of social activism and more from an anti-establishment perspective, that is true.  And it's also true that there are some different historical origins involved, naturally.  For example, the Liberals have been around since Confederation.  As have the Conservatives (in some form).  The NDP arose more than half a century later out of the CCF.  However, in terms of overall policies and governing, the Liberals & NDP are considered closer to one another than they are to the Conservatives.  It's much more common in Canada anyway for the Liberals & NDP to form governing arrangements.

Eg.  L.B. Pearson & D. Lewis in the 1960's

P.E. Trudeau & D. Lewis in the 1970's

B. Rae & D. Peterson provincially in Ontario the 1980's

Martin & Layton over the 2005 Federal budget

Layton & Dion tentatively in December 2008

Wynne & Horwath in Ontario from 2013-2014

In addition, many Liberal & NDP voters consider their parties more likely working partners than they do the Conservatives.  And the Conservatives themselves, as well as the press, certainly consider the Liberals & NDP potential partners.  Look at how Justin Trudeau & Tom Mulcair keep getting asked about whether they will work together.  As did their predecessors.

None of that changes the fact that, from a political science perspective, the Liberals and Conservatives are quite similar.

Debater

As are the Liberals & the NDP.  And as are the Conservatives & NDP.  And as are the NDP & the BQ.  As are the NDP & the Greens.  As are the Greens & the Conservatives.

All these parties have many policies and political outlooks in common with one another, but there are only two that can work together and co-operate in some sort of coalition or governmental form in Canada.

None of that changes the fact that, in reality, the Liberals & the NDP have more in common than either do with the Conservatives and that they are much more likely to be forced to work together or merge down the road if the Conservatives continue to stay in power after 2015.

greyscale

Debater wrote:

As are the Liberals & the NDP.  And as are the Conservatives & NDP.  And as are the NDP & the BQ.  As are the NDP & the Greens.  As are the Greens & the Conservatives.

All these parties have many policies and political outlooks in common with one another, but there are only two that can work together and co-operate in some sort of coalition or governmental form in Canada.

None of that changes the fact that, in reality, the Liberals & the NDP have more in common than either do with the Conservatives and that they are much more likely to be forced to work together or merge down the road if the Conservatives continue to stay in power after 2015.

 

Disagree.

Debater

Well, that's what Nathan Cullen & Joyce Murray were proposing a couple of years ago at this time. Wink

David Young

Debater wrote:

Well, that's what Nathan Cullen & Joyce Murray were proposing a couple of years ago at this time. Wink

And that's why I told the Nathan Cullen supporter why I would not be voting for Nathan in the leadership contest.

 

BetterOnTheLeft

Jenny Kwan is in the race for VanEast, feels like a pretty epic battle here, two stong female MLAs from minority groups... 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mla-jenny-kwan-to-seek-fe...

I Think i'd like to see Jenny win; mostly due to the friction she caused/causes still within the BCNDP, she's been there for a very long time while Mable is rather new (2005 I believe) Jenny's seat is much safer and could do with a change since Kwan has been the MLA since 91 (correct?) It would help revitalize the provincial party in the city and I think would bring a great new-ish face to the federal scene

terrytowel

BetterOnTheLeft will win the riding of Vancouver East in a cakewalk. Even if she is in a coma, and doesn't campaign one day in the race she would win in a landslide.

But she has to win the nomination FIRST.

If she gets the nomination, the race for the next MP of Vancouver East is over. She will be the next MP for that riding,

 

BetterOnTheLeft

terrytowel wrote:

BetterOnTheLeft will win the riding of Vancouver East in a cakewalk. Even if she is in a coma, and doesn't campaign one day in the race she would win in a landslide.

But she has to win the nomination FIRST.

If she gets the nomination, the race for the next MP of Vancouver East is over. She will be the next MP for that riding,

 

Agreed, unless the NDP implodes ala 1993, which in even the worst polling is not going to happen.

It's more of now a strategic choice in VanEast; who's the best fit for the feds, I think Kwan herself knows its time she move on from the BCNDP. What Kwan brings more then Elmore is experience in Government, which the Federal team needs more than anything, helps substantiate the party as a viable governing option. Both are arguably on the left, which is good, hopefully they will continue the Libby legacy 

ajaykumar

the NDP is no different than the Mafia. 

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