What is wrong with MPs? More Women Level Complaints about sexual misconduct

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NorthReport
What is wrong with MPs? More Women Level Complaints about sexual misconduct

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Pondering

Here is an article pertaining to the title.  I am happy to see Trudeau being proven right and holding his ground.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/report-into-sexual-misconduct-allegations...

Two suspended Liberal MPs accused of sexual misconduct will not be allowed back into caucus, after a report on the allegations included complaints from more women, CTV News has learned.

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau suspended Massimo Pacetti and Scott Andrews from the caucus last November after two female NDP MPs made sexual assault and harassment allegations against them. The Liberal Party then hired Cynthia Petersen, a prominent human rights lawyer, to conduct an investigation.

Sources say that investigation now includes complaints from other women. Petersen’s report, now in the hands of a small group of Liberals, does not paint a flattering picture of Pacetti and Andrews’ behaviour, both on and off Parliament Hill, sources told CTV’s Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife.

Even though:

Another NDP MP told Liberal Party whip Judy Foot that Andrews allegedly forced himself on her, then verbally harassed her for a period of time. Sources say she refused to co-operate with the investigation.

 

Debater

Looks like you are inventing your own news titles again, North Report.

Anyway, as Pondering says, this shows Justin Trudeau made the right decision in suspending the 2 MP's and hiring top human rights lawyer Cynthia Peterson to investigate.

Trudeau was criticized by some Pacetti & Andrews supporters for suspending them, but now he will be shown to have acted as a strong leader by taking action right away.

Sean in Ottawa

Evidence of guilt on behalf of the MPs is no indication that Trudeau was right to ignore the complainants and proceed without warning to make it public. In fact Trudeau had the choice to have the investigation outside the public eye until there was a determination.

Debater

Well, most people say otherwise, Sean.  Obviously this is yet another point of disagreement between the Liberals & NDP.

In the year 2014 the correct thing to do, particularly in light of the Ghomeshi scandal, is not to keep the matter behind closed doors but to take action right away.

Trudeau kept the names of the complainants private and did not identify them.  He only suspended the MP's.  It was the NDP and some members of the press who revealed that they were NDP MP's.  Jennifer Ditchburn pointed this out to the NDP.

And there was also a political reality involved - if Trudeau had kept the matter quiet, it would have been used against him, probably by Mulcair himself.  Martin Patriquin said on CBC last fall that Mulcair would have tried to profit from it politically if Trudeau had done as you suggest.

NorthReport

He said this, she said that.

What happens to these MPs now?

What is fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this? 

Maybe there needs to be some educational process for all their male MPs to ensure there are not repeat performances.

Do they discuss this in Caucus?

Now that the Liberals have investigated them will these Liberal MPs be charged?

Is Trudeau recommending charges be laid?

If not, why not?

 

 

 

NorthReport

And what about the way the victims were treated when this first story first broke? 

What amends are the Liberals going to make to them now?

Sean in Ottawa

Debater wrote:

Well, most people say otherwise, Sean.  Obviously this is yet another point of disagreement between the Liberals & NDP.

Those who disagree with the Liberal spin on this are also people. I do agree that it is fair to say most Liberals say otherwise and I expect that is all who you listen to.

There has been a great deal of discussion about the effect this may have on victims coming forward and how there was an expectation that their views about the process would be respected. Many observers have commented about how dysfunctional this is due to a lack of process that was not helped by bringing this public over the objections of the complainants.

Even those with some sympathy to the position Trudeau was in have called for a better process and a number of these people have suggested other ways it could have been handled.

If you think that this controversy comes down to most people agreeing with your point of view I suggest it is because you have filtered out and dismissed opposing views as anti-Trudeau rather than hearing what those who are not partisan Liberals are saying. there remains a wide variety of opinion on this.

I disagree that haste should be the prime directive with complaints. More important they they be handled correctly with a view to fundamental justice and respect for both the complainants and the rights of the accused. My opinion on this is not as rare as you think.

Debater

Take a look at some of the bizarre questions that NR is asking above:

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1. "Is Trudeau recommending charges be laid?"

->  I wasn't aware that Justin Trudeau had the legal authority to recommend prosecution.

->  And keep in mind that the NDP MP's do not want to lay any charges!

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2. "And what about the way the victims were treated when this first story first broke?"

->  Well, as Jennifer Ditchburn said, it was the NDP that told her & her colleagues in the press that the victims were NDP MP's.  Trudeau had kept their identities private.  So why not ask the NDP leadership what action they plan to take against those in their party who leaked the details to the press?

NorthReport

Liberal MP 'astounded' by reports of permanent ousting from caucus


http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/liberal-mp-astounded-by-reports-of-perman...

Aristotleded24

NorthReport wrote:
What is fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this?

Shame on you for trying to blatantly politicize the issue of sexual harassment. This kind of thing happens everywhere, and if we were to shine a light on it, yes there would be instances of inappropriate behaviour of NDP politicians come to light, and you would look very foolish with this comment.

NorthReport

Liberal MPs Massimo Pacetti, Scott Andrews to be booted from caucus

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-mps-massimo-pacetti-scott-andrew...

Sean in Ottawa

Debater on your point 2 -- I followed that story. Ditchburn was not the only person covering the story and others were saying it was NDP MPs before the NDP came out and confirmed that. As soon as the Liberals said it was MPs it was clear that the identities were likely to follow. There is no way that this would not have happened. By confirming it was NDP MPs the NDP at least was able to explain why the NDP MPs did not want to make it public (which they did). The NDP's hand was forced.

Ditchburn was a little unfair in her apparent belief that if the CBC had not reported it there was no speculation that the MPs were New Democrats. Since she herself is on Twitter she should have seen that this was very much out there before the NDP said anything.

There are not many parties in the House. Since they were multiple female MPs they were not Green. Trudeau stated that they were not Liberal. People dismissed that these were Conservative MPs right off for a number of reasons (do we really have to go there?). The speculation was on about the individuals. By admitting they were New Democrats the NDP was able to speak on their behalf which they did do.

It is absolutely naive to think that Trudeau could say these were two MPs of another party and that people would not know, within a short time, which other party it was. The NDP plea to respect them may well have slowed the frenzy to identify them individually. Measured against the confirmation of what was already widely expected that they were NDP this plea may have done more to keep their privacy than saying nothing would have. While many know who they are it is still not widely reported. I think this is in response to that request on behalf of the victims that Mulcair made.

Stockholm

Its easy for Trudeau to expel Pacetti and Andrews since they are both totally worthless MPs who add no value of any kind to the liberal caucus. Now that he has set this bar - what will he do when there inevitable complaints about lecherous behaviour by one his so-called star candidates?

NorthReport

I notice it is usually men that try to down play the significance and importance of issues like this. Some of us rememeber all too well how the victims have been treated since this hit the news.

Aristotleded24 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
What is fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this?

Shame on you for trying to blatantly politicize the issue of sexual harassment. This kind of thing happens everywhere, and if we were to shine a light on it, yes there would be instances of inappropriate behaviour of NDP politicians come to light, and you would look very foolish with this comment.

Sean in Ottawa

I would like to speak to the thread title and request that it be changed.

The thread title question minimizes the problem of sexist, privileged rape culture on the Hill by placing it in one party only. We have heard stories for years.

To make this about what is wrong with one party denies the culture women are facing at the highest level in the country. Sadly this is more about what is wrong with one gender -- men -- EVEN in a place where we should have been able to expect equality and leadership in a fight against violence against women.

We should be asking what is wrong with Parliament Hill culture and how could this happen.

I won't pretend that I think any party is immune.

We can disagree on the handling by each party (and there I feel I can question the Liberal party) but this thread suggests that this is something only one party has as a problem. To me that is deeply offensive.

ajaykumar
Sean in Ottawa

I agree with your statement but your links are to something that bears no resemblance. No MP is accused of sexual assault in these links and the claim was examined by a third party and determined to be groundless. A lawsuit for smearing is underway (which is reported in one of your links).

pookie

NorthReport wrote:

He said this, she said that.

What happens to these MPs now?

What is fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this? 

Oh, I dunno.  Offhand, I say that what is "fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this" is that some of its MPs are men.

 

Sean in Ottawa

pookie wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

He said this, she said that.

What happens to these MPs now?

What is fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this? 

Oh, I dunno.  Offhand, I say that what is "fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this" is that some of its MPs are men.

Fair comment and a better start to actually getting to the real problem.

pookie

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

pookie wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

He said this, she said that.

What happens to these MPs now?

What is fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this? 

Oh, I dunno.  Offhand, I say that what is "fundamentally wrong in the Liberal Party to have MPs that behave like this" is that some of its MPs are men.

Fair comment and a better start to actually getting to the real problem.

To be clear, my comment was meant to illustrate the rank stupidity of the question.

NorthReport

Maybe a bit more time needs to be spent on concern for the victims here instead of the usual nonsense.

NorthReport

Liberal MP Pacetti says he’s hobbled by misconduct allegations, won’t run again


http://medicinehatnews.com/news/national-news/2015/03/18/liberal-mp-pace...

Brachina

 I know this will make me rabble's most hated babbler, sorry debater for stealing you title, but any investiation should have been done by police, this is no different then the Board of Internal Economy acting as judge, jury, and executioner. The MPs are the real victims, they've had they're rights violated, they've been publicly humiliated, etc... This isn't right, we decry when the NDP gets treated this way, but its okay to treat Andrews and Pacetti this way? Its hypocracy and McCarthism, they were never given a proper chance to defend themselves, hell even Dean Del Mastro got his day in court.

 

 Don't get me wrong I believe everyone should have a safe enviroment, but I believe in basic precepts of justice, not Kangaroo courts, such as what Trudeau did to those MPs and the Board of Internal Economy did to the NDP.

What happen to innocent until proven guilty? Was that just a fad?

 

PS please stop misusing the term rape culture which actually refers to rape in men's prisions originally.

 

Aristotleded24

Brachina wrote:
I know this will make me rabble's most hated babbler, sorry debater for stealing you title, but any investiation should have been done by police

What exactly do you think the police would have done?

Brachina wrote:
this is no different then the Board of Internal Economy acting as judge, jury, and executioner.

Allegations of mishandling money and allegations of sexual assault are of a different severity level.

Brachina wrote:
What happen to innocent until proven guilty? Was that just a fad?

The issue here is that these incidents often happen in private, they are very difficult to prove, and creeps and predators deliberately  hide behind plausible deniability.

Brachina

 crimes of all sorts are hard to prove, it'd be nice if people guilty of crimes would admit what they did, but until we get restoritive justice that's unlikely to happen, and it doesn't negate peoples legal rights.

NorthReport

Haven't we had enough of this nonsense?

When a woman makes a complaint we need to listen to the complaint.

Why do we have to wait until several women come forward before we believe the woman?

It was disgusting some of the comments that were made about the victims.

I hope the Liberals lose both these seats in the next election so the victims mightl possibly feel that at least some Canadians have heard them.

 

Debater

Stockholm wrote:

Its easy for Trudeau to expel Pacetti and Andrews since they are both totally worthless MPs who add no value of any kind to the liberal caucus. Now that he has set this bar - what will he do when there inevitable complaints about lecherous behaviour by one his so-called star candidates?

This is such nonsense.

First of all, none of this has been "easy" for Trudeau or for any of the parties involved.  It's a serious, unpleasant issue and you can see from the threads on this board how much division it also causes between the 2 parties.

Second, where did you get the idea that Pacetti & Andrews are "totally worthless" and have "no value" to the Liberals?  They certainly don't anymore after what has been learned about them, but they used to both be important MP's.  Pacetti is well-known in the St. Leonard Italian community and has been an MP there since 2002, and Andrews has twice beaten Conservative Senator Fabian Manning in Avalon despite it being heavily targetted by the Cons.

Third, why are you assuming that there is going to be "inevitable complaints about lecherous behaviour" involving one of Trudeau's star candidates?!

Brachina

 I agree we should listen when an accusation is made and take it seriously, but that doesn't mean that you treat the accusation as a conviction, you go through the proper process, you allow them a fair trail and defence, anything less is a lynch mob, like the kind that used to string black men up and hang them on the mere accusation of a white women. The situation is less violent and not about race, but the principles are still the same. 

 

 Look do you honestly think I'm a fan of thier of these men, I hate liberals, but the unfair way they were treated was simply wrong. This isn't Justice and I in good conscience can't go along to get along.

 

 I make my points not out of anamosity towards the female MPs, I would have voted for either one of them, but I have to take a stand for what I feel is right, I hope you people can respect and understand my position on this issue.

Sean in Ottawa

Worth remembering that these women did not want a public lynching either.

Seems that a way has been found to be completely disrespectful of the rights of both the complainants and those accused.

That should give everyone pause because that is normally a hard thing to do. Usually you can only screw over one side of that equation at a time.

***

As for the term rape culture -- terms evolve and come to have different meanings. This term clearly has. Google it and you will see the wide range of application the term now has.

Debater

The main problem that this exposed is that there is no process for dealing with these issues on Parliament Hill.  As was discovered, even though it was 2014 when this issue arose, it shows how Parliament has not had a mechanism for dealing with these type of allegations between MP's.

Up until now it was considered acceptable for these things to go unreported.  The male dominated power structure on Parliament Hill had not created any procedural remedy for dealing with this situation.

This was something that Justin Trudeau & Liberal Whip Judy Foote realized when this issue arose and thus they had to hire a respected human rights lawyer to conduct an investigation because the Speaker basically said he was powerless to do anything and the NDP MP's didn't want to bring forward an official complaint to the authorities.

Hopefully all parties will now implement some sort of mechanism that can be developed to deal with something like this the next time it arises.

Btw, Sean is correct that this thread title should be changed.  It was started by the same partisan poster that starts most of the anti-Liberal threads here and unfortunately it is not the appropriate title for a subject like this.

NorthReport

Mulcair plan for parliamentary harassment process draws on past experience

http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?file...

Brachina

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Worth remembering that these women did not want a public lynching either.

Seems that a way has been found to be completely disrespectful of the rights of both the complainants and those accused.

That should give everyone pause because that is normally a hard thing to do. Usually you can only screw over one side of that equation at a time.

***

As for the term rape culture -- terms evolve and come to have different meanings. This term clearly has. Google it and you will see the wide range of application the term now has.

I agree with your first comments, this has been a debuckle for all invovled.

But while people may have tried to stretch the meaning of rape culture, I don't agree with it, I've seen evidence of the original, but none of the new meanings. I've heard people say of male prison rape that its there own fault for doing the crime, in mainstream circles years ago, but I've never known anyway to support raping women, society finds it unacceptable and those merely accused become social outcasts, tiny, tiny amount of people commit rape, they do not represent society.

NorthReport

If Trudeau is so concerned about the victims why did Liberals leak the results of the report to CTV News without contacting the victims first?

 

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
I know this will make me rabble's most hated babbler, sorry debater for stealing you title, but any investiation should have been done by police, this is no different then the Board of Internal Economy acting as judge, jury, and executioner.

While I do hear what you're saying -- and while I also do contest the title of most hated babbler! -- I think it's important to recognize that this isn't in lieu of formal, Criminal Code actions.  If the victims wish to make a statement to police then nothing the Libs do to these MPs will prevent the Crown from also acting.

But meanwhile, parties have to do what's in their best interests overall.  Being turfed from caucus isn't the same as going to jail.  Our right to liberty isn't on par with our right to represent a political party.

The NDP cut the rope on Dana Larsen after video surfaced of him doing a whack of drugs and then driving and laughing.  Sure, I suppose that could have been a matter for the police -- or not -- but I don't think the NDP acted outside of its jurisdiction by distancing themselves from him.  Why should they have to carry that load at election time?  What if they'd rather talk about other things besides Jughead the Drughead getting a hoot out of driving a car while baked?

Similarly, the Libs weren't out of line letting these two go.  I doubt it was something they specifically WANTED to do, but in a choice between that and having their message buried under discussion of them, they did what they had to do.  Like you, I'm not a Liberal supporter, but I'm not seeing a great injustice here.

Quote:
This isn't right, we decry when the NDP gets treated this way

I do recall much weeping and gnashing of teeth over Larsen.  But what are you supposed to do?  Forfeit any chance in the election by saying "we also think that driving while baked is funny, dude.  Chill, man!  It's 4:20!"

Brachina

 If there. was unedited video of the accusations you might have a point, but there is none. If someone made an accusation against Larson without backing it up with evidence and he denied it, that would be different.

Brachina

 For the. record I still don't support how some in the party treat Larson.

Sean in Ottawa

Brachina wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Worth remembering that these women did not want a public lynching either.

Seems that a way has been found to be completely disrespectful of the rights of both the complainants and those accused.

That should give everyone pause because that is normally a hard thing to do. Usually you can only screw over one side of that equation at a time.

***

As for the term rape culture -- terms evolve and come to have different meanings. This term clearly has. Google it and you will see the wide range of application the term now has.

I agree with your first comments, this has been a debuckle for all invovled.

But while people may have tried to stretch the meaning of rape culture, I don't agree with it, I've seen evidence of the original, but none of the new meanings. I've heard people say of male prison rape that its there own fault for doing the crime, in mainstream circles years ago, but I've never known anyway to support raping women, society finds it unacceptable and those merely accused become social outcasts, tiny, tiny amount of people commit rape, they do not represent society.

Having heard you explain it that way I see exactly where you are coming from.

I assume the use of the word in wider society is to address the fact that there are cultural contributions to why violence against women. Once proven offenders become outcasts but all-to-often they are believed over the complainants well beyond reasonable doubt. In any case while it is not comparable in the terms you have laid out there is a lot of cover for violence against women and cultural obstacles to addressing it. That is not to minimize what you are saying.

 

ETA: I did a search as I was sure I had not mentionned rape culture in this thread before you raised the use of the term. I used the word culture. And I think that is still fair and accurate -- there is a problem with the culture.

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
If there. was unedited video of the accusations you might have a point, but there is none.

It's all a bit stale, as news goes, but I understand that at the time there was, in fact, video of the event, shot by Larsen (or maybe more likely a buddy) and shown on the now defunct "pot TV".

But do you really think the NDP would have fared better (or just been more ideologically pure) if they'd been more willing to spend all of their time trying to explain to voters that you can drive safely and reponsibly no matter how baked you are?

Aristotleded24

My watch just stopped and it's at this time:

Debater wrote:
The main problem that this exposed is that there is no process for dealing with these issues on Parliament Hill.  As was discovered, even though it was 2014 when this issue arose, it shows how Parliament has not had a mechanism for dealing with these type of allegations between MP's.

Up until now it was considered acceptable for these things to go unreported.  The male dominated power structure on Parliament Hill had not created any procedural remedy for dealing with this situation.

This was something that Justin Trudeau & Liberal Whip Judy Foote realized when this issue arose and thus they had to hire a respected human rights lawyer to conduct an investigation because the Speaker basically said he was powerless to do anything and the NDP MP's didn't want to bring forward an official complaint to the authorities.

Hopefully all parties will now implement some sort of mechanism that can be developed to deal with something like this the next time it arises.

Btw, Sean is correct that this thread title should be changed.  It was started by the same partisan poster that starts most of the anti-Liberal threads here and unfortunately it is not the appropriate title for a subject like this.

I have to say I see very much in this post with which I can agree.

I also have to say that while people may have legitimate reasons for disagreeing with how Trudeau handled this case, I'm disapointed that NorthReport is continuing to use this incident to flog Trudeau over the head. I've already flagged one of his posts here.

Pondering

NorthReport wrote:
They suggested that Trudeau is just doing things without thinking them through and then it is left to other liberals to clean up his mess

The CBC made no such suggestion and neither did anyone else in the article.

jjuares

Aristotleded24 wrote:

My watch just stopped and it's at this time:

Debater wrote:
The main problem that this exposed is that there is no process for dealing with these issues on Parliament Hill.  As was discovered, even though it was 2014 when this issue arose, it shows how Parliament has not had a mechanism for dealing with these type of allegations between MP's.

Up until now it was considered acceptable for these things to go unreported.  The male dominated power structure on Parliament Hill had not created any procedural remedy for dealing with this situation.

This was something that Justin Trudeau & Liberal Whip Judy Foote realized when this issue arose and thus they had to hire a respected human rights lawyer to conduct an investigation because the Speaker basically said he was powerless to do anything and the NDP MP's didn't want to bring forward an official complaint to the authorities.

Hopefully all parties will now implement some sort of mechanism that can be developed to deal with something like this the next time it arises.

Btw, Sean is correct that this thread title should be changed.  It was started by the same partisan poster that starts most of the anti-Liberal threads here and unfortunately it is not the appropriate title for a subject like this.

I have to say I see very much in this post with which I can agree.

I also have to say that while people may have legitimate reasons for disagreeing with how Trudeau handled this case, I'm disapointed that NorthReport is continuing to use this incident to flog Trudeau over the head. I've already flagged one of his posts here.


To be fair Pondering also brings it up as an example of Trudeau's leadership. It's time this is just dropped as a partisan political issue.

NorthReport

Tom Mulcair live now in vancouver

Www.ndp.ca/live

Pondering

Trudeau believed the women. Having done so he could not allow the men to stay in caucus where they would be a threat to other women and to the party.

Proof of wrongdoing is not necessary to suspend high level representatives. The senators were suspended without any proof of wrongdoing.

At the beginning of the meeting with the party whips the two victims were told that what they said would be used in deciding the fate of the men.

The only information Trudeau gave was that the two men were guilty of misconduct against two mps from another party. He did not say they were female or that the misconduct was of a sexual nature.

The reason there were rumours is because it was an open secret. The MP that approached Trudeau asked him if he had already heard about it. It isn't the Liberals that leaked the information. The women themselves had told multiple people. Even so Frank got one of the names wrong and neither were confirmed in mainstream media.

The NDP was notified two hours prior to the announcement.

Mulcair, Turmel and Leslie disgusted me with their behavior. I don't believe the MPs asked Mulcair to publically accuse Trudeau of revictimizing them. I'm sure they "asked" the MPs what they could say publically but that is no excuse.

The NDP tried to play both sides of the fence and in doing so made the women look like idiots for claiming to be so traumatized but then wanting to protect the men's careers.

There was no reason at all for Mulcair to say a word. The only party that kept it in the news by constantly talking about it and releasing new information week after week was the NDP. As soon as the NDP stopped talking it was out of the news.

Trudeau has the power to expel MPs from caucus without cause therefore the MPs have no legal recourse against the party.

 

Unionist

jjuares wrote:
It's time this is just dropped as a partisan political issue.

The time for that was when the incident first surfaced. But yes, better late than never.

Aristotleded24

Unionist wrote:

jjuares wrote:
It's time this is just dropped as a partisan political issue.

The time for that was when the incident first surfaced. But yes, better late than never.

Agreed.

Pondering

Unionist wrote:

jjuares wrote:
It's time this is just dropped as a partisan political issue.

The time for that was when the incident first surfaced. But yes, better late than never.

That depends on what you mean. Women's rights are an important political issue to me. The way in which the parties handle issues of harassment matters.

The NDP laid the entire mess at the feet of the Liberals and did absolutely nothing, never made a single suggestion in the week between the party whips meeting and the Liberal announcement. The NDP was completely passive. If the NDP had their way the two men would still be Liberal MPs. I expect better of my lawmakers.

Unionist

Pondering wrote:

Unionist wrote:

jjuares wrote:
It's time this is just dropped as a partisan political issue.

The time for that was when the incident first surfaced. But yes, better late than never.

That depends on what you mean. Women's rights are an important political issue to me. The way in which the parties handle issues of harassment matters.

I mean, countless posts here, and countless statements by politicians in the media, have depended solely on which political party some individual blindly, mindlessly, religiously cheerleads for. That's a guarantee that the rights of women to be safe from harassment and abuse will be sacrificed on the altar of power, money, and cliquishness. Tell me you don't know what I'm talking about. I need a hearty laugh.

 

jjuares

This has nothing to do with harassment. I am hoping the mods will close this.

Pondering

Unionist wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Unionist wrote:

jjuares wrote:
It's time this is just dropped as a partisan political issue.

The time for that was when the incident first surfaced. But yes, better late than never.

That depends on what you mean. Women's rights are an important political issue to me. The way in which the parties handle issues of harassment matters.

I mean, countless posts here, and countless statements by politicians in the media, have depended solely on which political party some individual blindly, mindlessly, religiously cheerleads for. That's a guarantee that the rights of women to be safe from harassment and abuse will be sacrificed on the altar of power, money, and cliquishness. Tell me you don't know what I'm talking about. I need a hearty laugh.

Is the discourse on ISIS better? I can see for myself the way the two parties treated this topic. I watched it unfold day after day. I agreed with Elizabeth May and as the events unfolded her words proved to be true.

NorthReport

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