Son of Kyoto: Copenhagen ll

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George Victor
Son of Kyoto: Copenhagen ll

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George Victor

Ghislaine:

"That is the whole point, GV. How are they "champions of change" if they are living in huge homes and globetrotting on jumbo jets? They don't deserve to be called champions of change.  They are attacking the same lifestyle they refuse to give up (and from my perspective believe that certain rich people like themselves should be allowed to keep it). My lifestyle I have changed quite a bit, so I don't feel attacked - just annoyed that they won't follow suit as well. We need true champions of change. Not liars and hypocrites. "

 

With the world teetering on the edge of accepting the scientific evidence for the need for changes in lifestyle to come to terms with climate change caused by their lifestyle, are we at the point of being able to demand a reatreat to the hermitage? You are on the leading edge of something, Ghislaine. Not sure what.

NorthReport
NorthReport

I suppose humankind is a bit thicker than I imagined. Scary.

Only one in two voters accepts man-made climate change, according to new poll
Nearly one in two voters believes there is no proof that mankind is causing global warming, according to a new opinion poll.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/6737353/Only-one-in-two-voters-accepts-man-made-climate-change-according-to-new-poll.html 

NorthReport

Gee, I wonder what they are going to discover. Perhaps that a lot of humans are idiots.

Climategate: UN panel on climate change to investigate claims
The United Nations panel on climate change is to investigate claims that scientists at the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit manipulated global warming data.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6724249/Climategate-UN-panel-on-climate-change-to-investigate-claims.html

scott scott's picture

50,000 Climate Protestors in London

Over 40,000 people took to the streets today for The Wave climate demo in central London in anticipation to the COP15 Climate Summit due to take place in Copenhagen in the next two weeks. Here there a few pics of the demo:

NorthReport

 

Gordon Brown attacks 'flat-earth' climate change sceptics

'Dangerous, deceitful' attempts to derail Copenhagen summit condemned

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/04/flat-earth-climate-change-copenhagen

NorthReport

I like this idea. Don't forget to add Alberta to the list too.

UK should open borders to climate refugees, says Bangladeshi minister

Europe and US should also be responsible for millions who will be displaced by climate change, says Abul Maal Abdul Muhith

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/30/rich-west-climate-change

Sven Sven's picture

I suspect that little of substance will come from the Copenhagen Summit.

But, maybe we'll be surprised.

George Victor

"Pleasantly" surprised would be a nice way to wind up the first decade of the 21st century. Getting to hate the other variety. We need goals around which we can mobilize, big time. New standards of lifestyle to be met, objectives set.

NorthReport

I guess we're doomed then.

Gee, i can't find the National post, the vancouver sun, the province, the calgary herald, the montreal gazette. Strange that.

Fourteen days to seal history's judgment on this generation'

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/06/copenhagen-editorial

George Victor

The lifestyle is in for a shit-kickin'.

NorthReport

This is all smoke and mirrors just like the previous meetings. As if our political leaders are actually going to do anything that is going to impact negatively on corporate profits. Our track record says it all: Just not gonna happen. 

 

Hoped-for climate change climax may just fizzle out 

For 20 years, as this crowded planet grew warmer, countries have gathered annually to try to do something about it. History now brings them to this chilly northern capital, and to a crossroads.

The world looks to Copenhagen "to witness what I believe will be an historic turning point in the fight against climate change," says Yvo de Boer, United Nations organizer of the two weeks of talks opening Monday.

It may witness, instead, history put on hold.

The change in U.S. administrations a year ago had aroused hopes the long-running climate talks might finally produce an all-encompassing package in 2009 to combat global warming and help its victims.

Too little time and too little agreement, however, especially between rich and poor countries, mean the 192-nation Copenhagen conference is likely to produce, at best, a framework — a basis for continuing talks and signing internationally binding final agreements next year.

Two key building blocks for that framework may take shape here:

•Setting targets for controlling emissions of carbon dioxide and other global-warming gases, including by the leading contributors, China and the United States.

•Agreeing on how much rich countries should pay for poor nations’ clean energy technology and for seawalls, irrigation and other projects to counter a changing climate.

Under the grand roof of Copenhagen’s modern Bella Centre, delegates will also deal with a heavy agenda of other issues: the technicalities of protecting forests, measuring emissions, setting rules for "carbon credits," enforcing an eventual treaty, and other concerns.

Underlining Copenhagen’s importance, at least 100 national leaders, led by President Barack Obama, will converge on the Danish capital to offer high-level backing to the talks.

On Friday the White House announced Obama would come to Copenhagen on Dec. 18, the conference’s last scheduled day. That’s when the UN talks perennially go into overtime in last-minute wrangling and when other leaders are planning to take part.

The U.S. chief executive’s change in plans indicated the Americans see a chance for important political agreements in those final hours.

Slow progress has marked climate talks since the 1992 Rio treaty calling for voluntary controls on greenhouse gases. It took five more years to get the Kyoto Protocol, which ordered emissions cuts by 37 industrialized countries, an accord the U.S. rejected. American resistance through eight years under president George W. Bush then blocked most progress.

While diplomacy has inched along, climate change hasn’t waited.

 

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1156277.html

canuquetoo

Canadians produce 81.81 tonnes of CO2 per capita. Canada as a whole produces less than 2% of global CO2

 

In a northern, sparsely settled country, should rural residents be held to the same standard as urbanites? Do we have to stop travelling and heating our homes to meet targets?

What about the 'renewable' energy subsidy scams? Wind power subsidised to 19.5 cents per kwh when residential power rates are ~ 6-8 cents per kwh. Who will pay for all this? What about the total energy inputs in consumables when power costs 40 cents per kwh.

Are we prepared to pay $10 for a liter of milk or loaf of bread? What about individuals who do not have the income to survive this lower standard of living?

How about our millions upon millions of acres of forest? Do we get carbon credits for our forests?  How much of that 81.81 tonnes per capita will our forests absorb as a carbon sink?

NorthReport

 

I call BS to your stats as you are not sourcing them with any links whatsoever.

Nobody wants to do anything.

Nobody wants to pay the price.

It is always someone else's fault, isn't it. 

That kind of attitude is going to do wonders, not for climate change, but for the funeral businesses.

No one interested in hearing what you are not going to do - what is it that you are going to do to fight climate change.

How many climate change refugees from Bangldesh are you going to take into your community when their delta where they presently live gets covered over by the sea? Or do you think it is better to just let them drown. Probably the latter, eh! 

NorthReport

Lots of room for optimism here, isn't there. 

World concerns about climate change dwindle

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Climate+change+worries+dwindle+poll/2308760/story.html

NorthReport

Thank goodness. I was very worried about that.

Canada won't be swayed by Copenhagen hype: Prentice

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Canada+swayed+Copenhagen+hype+Prentice/2303866/story.html

NorthReport

Are they really really sure? 

Before Climate Meeting, a Revival of Skepticism

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/science/earth/07climate.html

Sean in Ottawa

The most hopeful thing I saw this week on Canada at Copenhagen was that there were countries talking about trying to get Canada kicked out of international organizations.

Canadians like to think of themselves as having an international reputation. I think this type of action could be helpful in getting Canadians attention.

Since that was the most hopeful- I guess it was not a great week now was it?

Ghislaine

George Victor wrote:

 

With the world teetering on the edge of accepting the scientific evidence for the need for changes in lifestyle to come to terms with climate change caused by their lifestyle, are we at the point of being able to demand a reatreat to the hermitage? You are on the leading edge of something, Ghislaine. Not sure what.

That is why I changed my lifestyle. Why do these so-called "champions of change" not believe the evidence enough to change their lifestyles?? Who is demanding a retreat? Certainly not me. As well, how are globetrotting rich-people who say one thing and do another supposed to convince the unenlightened to change their lifestyles?

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6736517...

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges [/url]

canuquetoo

NorthReport wrote:

 

I call BS to your stats as you are not sourcing them with any links whatsoever.

 

I call BS to your empty ideological splutterings.

 

Nobody wants to do anything.

Nobody wants to pay the price.

It is always someone else's fault, isn't it. 

That kind of attitude is going to do wonders, not for climate change, but for the funeral businesses.

No one interested in hearing what you are not going to do - what is it that you are going to do to fight climate change.

 

As I've stated previously, I live in a small, energy- efficient home, mostly walk to work, buy local, grow a garden, reduce consumption to the detriment of my lifestyle, wear recycled clothing from Goodwill and restrict energy use. The sacrifices of others are never enough for you zealots.

 

How many climate change refugees from Bangldesh are you going to take into your community when their delta where they presently live gets covered over by the sea? Or do you think it is better to just let them drown. Probably the latter, eh! 

 

Another empty-headed zealot whose reach exceeds his grasp in claiming the moral high ground- how many Bangladeshis are you bunk-bedding in your bedroom?

canuquetoo

Ghislaine wrote:

George Victor wrote:

 

With the world teetering on the edge of accepting the scientific evidence for the need for changes in lifestyle to come to terms with climate change caused by their lifestyle, are we at the point of being able to demand a reatreat to the hermitage? You are on the leading edge of something, Ghislaine. Not sure what.

That is why I changed my lifestyle. Why do these so-called "champions of change" not believe the evidence enough to change their lifestyles?? Who is demanding a retreat? Certainly not me. As well, how are globetrotting rich-people who say one thing and do another supposed to convince the unenlightened to change their lifestyles?

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6736517...

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges [/url]

Precisely. My lifestyle is based upon frugality because it makes sense on many levels, not specifically because of climate change. This climate change hype has lost the focus on small steps by all to facilitate a better life for all in favour of a lot of empty-headed zealots berating others while ignoring their own excesses because they consider their own ravings to be all the positive contribution necessary from their moralistic lecturing self-important selves.

canuquetoo

NorthReport wrote:

 

I call BS to your stats as you are not sourcing them with any links whatsoever.

 

 

canuquetoo rabble-rouser Member: 17513 Joined: Apr 26 2009 December 3, 2009 - 8:33pm #83 (permalink)

 

jacki-mo wrote:

 

An update on highest per capita co2 polluters: Australia is number 1:

  http://www.maplecroft.com/news/australia_overtakes_usa_as_top_polluter_09.php

 

 

In Canada's case, what is 18.81 tonnes per capita divided by a billion trees per capita?

 

My stats are a part of the discourse. Try to keep up.

George Victor

Bravo to you both for doing what must be done...reducing the environmental footprint through lifestyle changes. 

Explain, however, how you propose to address world audiences from your living rooms.  Please, rest on your laurels and don't go silly on us -  or overboard!

Sean in Ottawa

It is very easy when you are just one person -- who does not have a huge footprint to say "well my lifestyle already has little impact I don't need to do more."

We all can make a difference-- I know that -- but there have been times when I go by a monster home with two SUVs in the driveway and a massive air conditionner for the thousands of square feet they don't need and think well my Ford Escort, small living space and that I buy most things used, let me off the hook for doing more. I mean even if I did nothing more and that person did everything else -- I still would be less of a problem.

I know this is wrong but it is hard to get motivated on other things when you are surrounded by such waste. And I feel guilty later but there are times it is easy to rationalize not doing more even though I could.

I wonder if there are not other whole countries looking at Canada and thinking the same thing.

A_J

Ghislaine wrote:
George Victor wrote:
With the world teetering on the edge of accepting the scientific evidence for the need for changes in lifestyle to come to terms with climate change caused by their lifestyle, are we at the point of being able to demand a reatreat to the hermitage? You are on the leading edge of something, Ghislaine. Not sure what.

That is why I changed my lifestyle. Why do these so-called "champions of change" not believe the evidence enough to change their lifestyles?? Who is demanding a retreat? Certainly not me. As well, how are globetrotting rich-people who say one thing and do another supposed to convince the unenlightened to change their lifestyles?

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6736517...

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges [/url]

These complaints about people working on climate change flying around the world are always really lame ("B-b-but Al Gore flys more than I do!").

For one, it's not a "lifestyle", it's part of the job - government officials and others who are engaged with the issue need to be able to meet with counterparts around the world.  This involves flying.

In Copenhagen, the limos will run on bioethanol ... and delegates will be fuelled by tap water

Toronto Star wrote:
Tap water instead of fancy imported mineral water. Transit passes instead of chauffeured limousines. And absolutely no gift bags filled with key chains, Frisbees and souvenir trinkets.

. . .

When delegates arrive at the Danish capital, they will be greeted at the airport with a fleet of bikes and a bundle of Metro passes. A wind turbine will help power the lights for the Bella conference centre, and the floors are carpeted with biodegradable carpets. Even the plastic pens have been recycled from plastic water bottles.

Tap water stations will be around the conference centre, and delegates have been told to bring their own cups, or use biodegradable cornstarch cups available on site. Plastic bottles will be verboten.

remind remind's picture

Does anyone know who went or is going from the NDP?

NorthReport

This conference will do nothing for our planet.

 

 

 

Against Copenhagen

Why we need to 'lose' at this week's climate summit if we are to win the fight against global warming.

 

If you were to pass around a single piece of information at Copenhagen, it should be the two pages of graphs at the beginning of an interesting book written by Gus Speth, this generation's leading environmental bureaucrat in Washington D.C. The book is The Bridge at the Edge of the World: Capitalism, the Environment, and Crossing from Crisis to Sustainability. Speth sets out 16 hockey stick graphs that portray increases in water use, in the damning of rivers, in CO2 concentrations, ozone depletion (hopefully now slowing down), rates of increase in average surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere, the rising frequency of great floods, depletion of ocean ecosystems, loss of rainforests, biodiversity decline, increases in fertilizer and paper consumption, and the explosion in the number of motor vehicles.

And three others: growth in the size of the global economy (GDP), foreign direct investment, and population.

Together, these graphs -- all hockey sticks -- provide a single message. We are killing the earth in every way imaginable, getting rich in the process, and providing a model for a growing world population to join in on.

 

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/06/CopenhagenContradictions/

NorthReport

But what are we actually going to do when we are faced with the reality that we cannot continue growing economically the way we have. That we will all have to make do with less. A lot, lot less.  At least in the materially developed world.

 

 

 

Copenhagen emissions targets ‘not enough to avert catastrophic warming’

 

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6946675.ece

NorthReport

Maybe that person(s) who are blowing up that Encana pipeline in Northern BC are onto something.

Why Politicians Won't Change Anything

Politicians are fiddling while the planet burns. They just don't get it. Our best hope may lie in old fashioned civil disobedience.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/225529

NorthReport

I guess they are tired of the Obama-Harper, etc. climate change lies. Saying they will do something but really not doing anything at all.

 

G77 and China criticize West for shifting responsibility on climate change

 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/08/content_12610599.htm

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

CBC is reporting that this is the warmest decade since records began to be kept 160 years ago.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

CBC is reporting that this is the warmest decade since records began to be kept 160 years ago.

George Victor

And many of the doctors in Sept-Iles have threatened to leave for other parts if Quebec allows exploration and development of a uranium mine to continue at Lake Kachiwiss, 13 kilometres upstream on the town's water source.  The doctors say they won't allow their children to be exposed to pollutants that would be generated.

Looks like you folks had better not sell off all the hydro-generated power, eh Boom Boom?

remind remind's picture

often I wonder how we are supposed to care about so many things.....

George Victor

Like the thought of being hanged in the morning, it sure focuses the mind though eh, remind.?  :D  I think it is going to mean a return to meaningful political action,  m'self.

remind remind's picture

Am not sure, actually George....most everyone seems to have bought into the "big lie'..... or several of them.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

George Victor wrote:
And many of the doctors in Sept-Iles have threatened to leave for other parts if Quebec allows exploration and development of a uranium mine to continue at Lake Kachiwiss, 13 kilometres upstream on the town's water source.  The doctors say they won't allow their children to be exposed to pollutants that would be generated.

Holy sh*t! First I've heard of this. Do you have a link?

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-sum... climate summit in disarray after 'Danish text' leak[/url]

Quote:
The UN Copenhagen climate talks are in disarray today after developing countries reacted furiously to leaked documents that show world leaders will next week be asked to sign an agreement that hands more power to rich countries and sidelines the UN's role in all future climate change negotiations.

 

...

Quote:
The agreement, leaked to the Guardian, is a departure from the Kyoto protocol's principle that rich nations, which have emitted the bulk of the CO2, should take on firm and binding commitments to reduce greenhouse gases, while poorer nations were not compelled to act. The draft hands effective control of climate change finance to the World Bank; would abandon the Kyoto protocol - the only legally binding treaty that the world has on emissions reductions; and would make any money to help poor countries adapt to climate change dependent on them taking a range of actions.

Displaced Alburtan

Quote:
The most hopeful thing I saw this week on Canada at Copenhagen was that there were countries talking about trying to get Canada kicked out of international organizations.

Canadians like to think of themselves as having an international reputation. I think this type of action could be helpful in getting Canadians attention.

Well, I've been doing my part to increase rage at the Canadian oilsands.  I'm still quite surprised by the number of people that came to Copenhagenare unaware of what they have become, though after my speil I'm sure they won't forget.  Taking a break in Belgium now, but will be back in Copen tomorrow...

The general feeling is that Copenhagen will change very little...but each time more awareness is there, more support for the cause...I'm not sure how many people truely beleive much will come out of this except more and more attention.  Sad, but realisitic. 

Northern report...2 comments for you to consider.  If the poll is at 50/50 on global warming being human caused...what was this poll at during the Kyoto talks?  Just curious which direction support is going and by how much.

I've heard from a few (passing around pamphlets no less) saying that even the most ambitious CO2 cutting measures aren't enough and we need to be prepared for the changes.  It's interesting to see...it's going on the Darwin says it's never the survival of the strongest, but survival of that most readily adaptable to change.  As much as we need to control our emissions, we need to be ready for whats coming...whatever that might be.

Has anyone aasked what we want our atmosphere to look like?

 

 

Canuquetoo, the holy than thou approach to environmentalism.  Very nice, but useless...you understand our greatest growing source of emissions is industry related, no?  $10 bottles of milk is only a reality if you allow the continued explotation of the oil sands.  I have no repsect for your holier than thou bullshit you keep repeating in this thread...either you're outright lying in this thread about your lifestyle or you just really really want a pat on the back for your individual contributions. Whichever it is, congrats..I really don't care...in any event, here's a fuck you from copenhagen

 

 

Errr, and Hi to Rabble from Belgium and soon to be Denmark.  It's an early morning trek, so I probably won't see this thread again until after Copenhagen.

remind remind's picture

wowwwwwwwwwwwww....left turn that is quite something, thanks.

George Victor

Boomer:

 

"Holy sh*t! First I've heard of this. Do you have a link?"

 

No. I read the Globe and the headline "Quebec unmoved in standoff with doctors" caught my eye...and of course mention of Sept-Iles has me reading in a flash. The statement by 20 doctors: "Fearing for the health of the population, our personal health and that of our families, especially our children, we have decided to leave the region, and for many of us, even the province." Quebec Health Minister Yves Bolduc got that letter Thursday.

 

Lorraine Richard, the PQ member of the National Assembly for Sept-Iles said the hospital could not function if only 5 doctors left its staff, let alone 20.

 

Serge Simard, Minister of Natural Resources responsible for mines, said "Right now, the company is at the exploration stage, not the development stage...I just want to tell the people of Sept-Iles that...if they don't want the project, the government will respect their wishes." Looks like it had better. On Oct. 30 the doctors warned of the action they wrere contemplating. Looks like thei're serious, Boomer.

canuquetoo

George Victor wrote:

Bravo to you both for doing what must be done...reducing the environmental footprint through lifestyle changes. 

Explain, however, how you propose to address world audiences from your living rooms.  Please, rest on your laurels and don't go silly on us -  or overboard!

Its presumptuous to believe that any individual can make an impact on preconceived, scripted gabfests like Kyoto or Copenhagen. Even the stalwarts of climate change action see these gabfests for the photo ops they are and have little hope that anything of substance will be achieved.

I believe that climate change must be addressed from the bottom up - by individual acts of forebearance that raises the ante on polluters through a culture of change that is undeniable. Rather than dreaming about global climate change upheaval, try installing a solar collector and solar power system with net metering. Climate change is only one dynamic in a world that lives beyond its means

I have done what I can to change my lifestyle and consumption. Actual sacrifice, not empty emotional babbling. Talk is cheap and no one in power pays the slightest attention to it but reducing consumption and making this reduction a grassroots phenomenon will do more to effect change than all the rhetoric from all the hypocrites that talk the talk but expect others to walk the walk.

When corporations are faced with cultural change that supports climate change action, they will be forced to conform or lose business. When consumers demand real change, not empty marketing strategies, business must change or lose market share.

 

The fact of the matter is that climate change zealots who cherry-pick their data politicise the issue and play into the hands of those who intend to profit from climate change policies by tilting government policy (and subsidies) in their direction via their bought political stooges. Their motivation is profit and, it will most likely occur at the expense of climate, not to its benefit.

Climate change activists are too accepting of process when they should rightly be suspicious of it. In a nutshell, my position is that the profit motive will corrupt climate action into another transfer of wealth from the masses to the corporations and elitists.

canuquetoo

Displaced Alburtan wrote:

Quote:
 

....Canuquetoo, the holy than thou approach to environmentalism.  Very nice, but useless...you understand our greatest growing source of emissions is industry related, no?  $10 bottles of milk is only a reality if you allow the continued explotation of the oil sands.  I have no repsect for your holier than thou bullshit you keep repeating in this thread...either you're outright lying in this thread about your lifestyle or you just really really want a pat on the back for your individual contributions. Whichever it is, congrats..I really don't care...in any event, here's a fuck you from copenhagen

 

 

$10 per liter for milk has nothing to do with the oilsands, genius. The point is that the cost of energy ( and I'm refering to all sources) in future will not just impact personal heating and travel but the energy inputs in every consumer item will impact greatest on the lower income earners. The impact of climate change will not be evenly distributed. You can sneer but your mommy will be forced to do without so you can eat well. I suggest she quit cooking with cheese until you move out of her basement and get a job.

I guess when you are a preening self-important zealot, the concrete efforts of others can be belittled. What, exactly are you doing to combat climate change other than galavanting about and yapping?

 

NorthReport

This conference is appearing to be as I suspected a complete waste of time

Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after 'Danish text' leak

Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN's negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text

Ghislaine

Yep North Report - at Copenhagan - it is the rich countries having all the power over the poor countries and in each individual country, it will be the rich people who refuse to stop over-consuming ("But I have organic shampoo for my 4 bathrooms!"), that will have power over the lower classes.

canuquetoo

Here's a new article on green power subsidies. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/solar-industry-lauds-ontario-incentives/article1393214/

 

Quote:
...At the Canadian Solar Industries Association annual conference in Toronto Tuesday, top executives of several Canadian solar energy firms praised Ontario's program which pays high prices for renewable power - more than 10 times the normal electricity price for certain solar projects....

 ...Essentially, feed-in tariffs "attract private capital to the business of creating solar energy, because you can make money doing this," said John MacDonald, chief executive officer of Day4 Energy Inc., a Vancouver-based solar cell maker....

(A feed-in tariff refers to a premium price paid by utilities to electricity producers who generate certain kinds of renewable power that is fed into the grid.)

 ...The province needs to "be bold about what it is they are trying to do, and then keep those rules in place so that we in industry can respond to it," he said. "If I can figure out a way to make money, I'll go after it with everything I've got."

 

My concern with this scheme is that pv cell solar panels cost ~$5 per watt when they can be profitably manufactured for $1 per watt. The thrust of this government subsidy is to provide profit for corporations by passing the cost on to consumers rather than enabling R+D to make solar systems affordable. No mention of any sort of altruistic climate change action by any of these profiteers, only greed.

thanks

last time i looked at the FIT program it also handed over the rights to energy sources, to the actual potential capacity of the wind, sun, water, geothermal, at any given site, the "environmental attributes" to those involved in the infrastructure.

Ghislaine

If those pesky brown people would just stop having so many babies, us rich people could just keep flying and flying and [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/03/carbon-offset-projects... not change a thing! [/url]:

 

Quote:

 
Calculations based on the trust's figures show the 10 tonnes emitted by a return flight from London to Sydney would be offset by enabling the avoidance of one unwanted birth in a country such as Kenya. Such action not only cuts emissions but reduces the number of people who will fall victim to climate change, it says.
Population control is highly contentious in rich and poor countries alike Some, such as Jonathon Porritt, the former Sustainable Development Commission chair, have said promotion of reproductive health is one of the most progressive forms of intervention. "Had there been no 'one child family' policy in China there would now have been 400 million additional Chinese citizens," he has said.
But other thinkers, such as the Guardian columnist George Monbiot, say global population increase pales into insignificance when compared with the effect of increased consumption and economic growth.

Too bad that they are ignoring the fact that citizens of developping countries are responsible for just a tiny fraction of what Western countries emit. But, we would not want to tell rich people to stop flying around the world, would we?
Access to birth control is a huge issue for women worldwide and more definitely has to be done. But this initiative just sends the message that poor people need to do more and rich people can just not change a damn thing. Grrrr, this makes me angry.

NorthReport

 

They are right. The big problem here, and why we aren't moving on this climate change file is noone, noone wants to pay the price. Kinda sad indictment of what the current generations will be leaving for the future generations. God bless Canada though. 

Copenhagen Summit: wealthy nations accused of 'carbon colonialism'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6950081.ece

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

(moved to new thread)

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