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I'm going to. Once again a feminism forum discussion is downed by big swinging dicks.
I notified Michelle last night that this thread was way past its due date. And that was prior to the stage that the thread has reached now.
There are other lenses besides gender in which to understand women's oppression. Women of colour are not well served by a gender-only lens. I greatly respect Cueball's contributions, here and in other places on babble, and do not feel he's gone over the line.
Stargazer and remind, I also respect your contributions here, but historically this is one place where we often part. We don't always agree on feminism and the "primary-ness" of gender. Understanding patriarchal cultures in which I am an outsider, requires, for me, a deeper level of engagement than may be possible in this medium, as I too have internalized the Western dominance model that all must be measured against.
This thread has run its course and my opinion is that no further good will come of it.
Peace to all.
I think in future if I am going to comment on issues raised here pertaining to this topic or other topic of interest, I will start a copy thread either in Humanities and Science or in the Anti-racism forum, and go from there. I think that is the best approach for all.
I've sat here for about an hour thinking about how to write anything in response to this, or even if I should.
Discussions about which oppression is the most central, or most important, or how this oppression trumps that oppression, really makes me hurt down to my heart and soul. Being a white male, I can't help but think that that's my white male privilege talking, but it still hurts to read arguments like this. Each oppression has its own unique structures and institutions and forms, and each is connected in subtle ways to the others. I just hate seeing arguments like this break out. I'm not sure I can contribute to any sort of solution either. [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Religion is dominated by patriarchy. The two cannot be separated. Period.
Good enough closing words. I often say, when closing for length, to feel free to start anew, but maybe we can take a breather on this one.
Originally posted by DavisMavis:[b]I just hate seeing arguments like this break out.[/b]
It's best to stand back...no, further back...or else you'll get splattered with "the mud and the blood and the beer". [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Crap, I thought I already closed this thing. I keep forgetting to click on the little button thingy.