failure of the government to protect youth

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susan davis
failure of the government to protect youth

can we discuss this a bit.....

i am feeling extremely concerned after a phone call i received last night....

every now and then sex workers in distress phone me out of desperation i think looking for advice or support. last night a young woman....12 years old but i say woman because she spoke like a woman.....called me desperate to find help.

forced into sex work at the age of 9 she stated she was pregnant and needed an abortion and did not want to "work" at sex work any more.her childs voice filled with the experiences of a slave was almost unbearable to hear.

sexually abused by her parents she did not want to go home and did not want to call police stating that they would just out her back into foster care and that that was worse that it was at home.she stated she could not get an abortion as she needs parental consent until she is 14...

i talked to her for an hour trying to explain that not all police would judge her and recommended talking to our sex industry liason officer who is very supportive ...i also recommended she go to pace or peers or wish and find support and resources there. she stated she could not leave the aprtment unless she was going on a call and would be expected to return with money...

in the end i recommended she contact rape relief via the crisis line as in my opinion they are really the only organization equiped for such a rescue....

i just am completely frustrated by the gaps in our system for protection of youth. she did not want to be housed with street entrenched or drug addicted women nor should she have to be. she was terrified of the DTES and was uncomfortable accessing services there....most services are ghettoized in the east end....

we all talk about protection of youth but what are we really doing?if i could just be alone with the people doing this to this girl....just for s few minutes....or the men using this child for sexual gratification......fuck.....

i felt completely helpless, and still do....she left no number so i don't know if she called rape relief or not but i will continue to worry and wonder if she is ok.

too young for welfare, too young to find a job, too young to be taken seriously by police, too young to access women support services.....what the hell are we doing?

i have only ever encountered someone this young once before and it was as disturbing to me then  as it is now. what can i do? there is nothing i can do.....

the other young woman i met was in prince george and was also 12 having been a sex worker for 2 years. it was her birthday and we got her a cake and gave her some presents...she cried and so did all of us....when it was all said and done she had to go back to the abuse, we couldn't help her. there was no where we could take her, no supports for her to access...what could we do? bring her to vancouver?i mean shit.....

i would like us to talk about ways we can begin to provide these children with the supports they need and begin to protect canadian children in a meaningful way.the complete and utter failure of our system to adress issues facing youth is disgusting....

what can we do......right now......

ennir

I am glad you were there to talk with her, I'm sure that helped her.

I agree with you that something needs to be done but I have little confidence that our society will step up in any substantial way, at least within the near future.  It appears there is need to set up safe houses that are outside of those channels. 

 

susan davis

yes, somewhere kids could feel protected.a place where they could lock the door and sleep feeling safe.

that's one of the ideas i promote to sex workers who have been the  victim of a crime. your home is your fortress. do not party at your home. if you meet someone and wish to explore sex....go to their house so you can leave when you need to.

i spoke to her a bit about that,not going to be possible for her until shes out of their....i suggested that potentially, with the right advocate, she could become a ward of the court and the court could allow her abortion she hasn't seen a doctor though and was afraid she may be too far along....

in a case like this i wonder if exception could be made and welfare provided with her being allowed to manage her own life, live alone.with supports of course....or at least i supported housing where she could control her environment-ie lock her door.aren't there some pretty nice facilities in maple ridge/abbottsford?

i mostly focus on issues facing adults as i am not a youth.i know people work on this stuff all the time i just can't help but feel frustrated for them and feel like i need to do something.....

the canadian system of supports is so flawed and broken, there must be ways to fill the gaps facing young people....

ennir

I hope she calls Rape Relief, I think they could probably help her most right now, clearly her pregnancy is a major crisis.

I've worked with children who have been abused and it is heartbreaking to know that our system really has nothing to offer them, at least the majority of them, I am sure there are a few who do benefit but in my experience most are further broken by the experience of coming into care.   When I first worked as a social worker I wanted to take every child away from every abusive parent but the longer I worked within it the more I felt that they were sadly often better off with their parents, at least with their parents they had some kind of continuity.   Over and over again I saw that when children first had a social worker they had hope that something good might happen but after three or eight workers and five or ten foster homes these children realized they had no-one with whom they could establish any history and without that they were lost.

Our system is broken, it is about bureaucracy not human beings.

spanks

susan davis wrote:

can we discuss this a bit.....

i am feeling extremely concerned after a phone call i received last night....

every now and then sex workers in distress phone me out of desperation i think looking for advice or support. last night a young woman....12 years old but i say woman because she spoke like a woman.....called me desperate to find help.

forced into sex work at the age of 9 she stated she was pregnant and needed an abortion and did not want to "work" at sex work any more.her childs voice filled with the experiences of a slave was almost unbearable to hear.

sexually abused by her parents she did not want to go home and did not want to call police stating that they would just out her back into foster care and that that was worse that it was at home.she stated she could not get an abortion as she needs parental consent until she is 14...

i talked to her for an hour trying to explain that not all police would judge her and recommended talking to our sex industry liason officer who is very supportive ...i also recommended she go to pace or peers or wish and find support and resources there. she stated she could not leave the aprtment unless she was going on a call and would be expected to return with money...

in the end i recommended she contact rape relief via the crisis line as in my opinion they are really the only organization equiped for such a rescue....

i just am completely frustrated by the gaps in our system for protection of youth. she did not want to be housed with street entrenched or drug addicted women nor should she have to be. she was terrified of the DTES and was uncomfortable accessing services there....most services are ghettoized in the east end....

we all talk about protection of youth but what are we really doing?if i could just be alone with the people doing this to this girl....just for s few minutes....or the men using this child for sexual gratification......fuck.....

i felt completely helpless, and still do....she left no number so i don't know if she called rape relief or not but i will continue to worry and wonder if she is ok.

too young for welfare, too young to find a job, too young to be taken seriously by police, too young to access women support services.....what the hell are we doing?

i have only ever encountered someone this young once before and it was as disturbing to me then  as it is now. what can i do? there is nothing i can do.....

the other young woman i met was in prince george and was also 12 having been a sex worker for 2 years. it was her birthday and we got her a cake and gave her some presents...she cried and so did all of us....when it was all said and done she had to go back to the abuse, we couldn't help her. there was no where we could take her, no supports for her to access...what could we do? bring her to vancouver?i mean shit.....

i would like us to talk about ways we can begin to provide these children with the supports they need and begin to protect canadian children in a meaningful way.the complete and utter failure of our system to adress issues facing youth is disgusting....

what can we do......right now......

a 12 year old is not s sex worker nor has she been working for 2 years she has been raped by kid diddlers for 2 years. 

 

oldgoat

I have a hard time calling, or thinking of a 12 year old as a sex worker.  They are child victims of sexual abuse.  I hope the kid you spoke to ended up talking to someone who could get her to a safe place. I would also say that if I were talking to such a kid who was in my presence, or i knew where they were, I would call the authorities because such a kid is in immediate and current risk and currently being abused.

I don't know how different child welfare services are in BC than Ontario where I'm a bit more familiar with what's available.  I do have a hard time imagining that the foster care system in BC is as bad as described.  Lots of kids don't like their foster placements for lots of reasons.  Some foster parents are a bit marginal, and the odd one is terrible.  Most range from ok to great. Some kids have a hard time accepting any kind of structure and will sabatoge a placement.  They require a fairly specialised environment, and those may not be immediately available.

My wife and I worked in a CAS assessment home for a while shortly ater we were married.  I recall kids who we were actually getting along with pretty well running just because running is what they did.

Infosaturated

While there are some foster-care horror stories there are also many more good foster homes. At 12 group homes might also be an option for her. Certainly her parents belong in jail.  Given that her parents are her pimps it is unlikely other facilities would be worse than that. I would not support independent living for a 12 year old regardless of the harshness of her life experience. I agree with Spanks that she has not been working for 2 years, she has been repeatedly raped for 2 years.  A 12 year old is neither a "sex worker" nor a "young woman".  She is every bit as much a victim as child soldiers.

Our system would not house a 12 year old with street-entrenched or drug-addicted women so I hope you reassured her that wouldn't happen. A 12 year old entering a clinic or hospital for an abortion would get an abortion quickly, authorized by the courts if need be.

susan davis wrote:
the other young woman i met was in prince george and was also 12 having been a sex worker for 2 years. it was her birthday and we got her a cake and gave her some presents...she cried and so did all of us....when it was all said and done she had to go back to the abuse, we couldn't help her. there was no where we could take her, no supports for her to access...what could we do? bring her to vancouver?

At the very least you report the situation to child protective services, preferably while staying with the child so she can't run away.  She did not have to go back to the abuse. There are supports for her to access.

susan davis

i agree old goat, they are not sex workers....sorry, i am not familiar with terms used when discussing exploitation of youth and will try to be a bit more respectful. clearly these girls were not consenting.

interseting about the running away.....a symptom of PTSD is self harm and it could be seen as a form of self harm or self sabotage as you say.

info, i guess we could have reported it but when asked if we could help or try to get her into a program or supprts she was afraid and did not want to go....in PG the women, youths,children on the street are afraid of police and with good reason. if people recall, there were police men and a judge all caught using the services of under age workers/exploited youth.......

in the end i think i gave her the best adivce i could in trying to connect her with rape relief....also, there is an organization in PG now called new hope and the coordinator is a friend.they are doing great work creating supports for sex workers but also for exploited youth. i think things there are getting a bit better....

in the end i always respect the person affected's wishes. if they do not want to involve police, i don't force the issue, if they are afraid of engaging supports, try to convince them some places are good but also, do not push the issue. i have always felt people must be respected for their choices in these situations and that forcing support may be actually harming in some way.....

 

susan davis

i did try to reassure her that she would not have to be placed with drug addicted or street entrenched women.and i agree completely that she was not working, she was raped repeatedly.you are all correct and again i apologize for my use of the word work....she had stated that she didn't want to "work"anymore...thus my repeating what she said. sorry.

remind remind's picture

susan davis wrote:
can we discuss this a bit.....

Oh ya, we can...

 

Quote:
forced into sex work at the age of 9

She was NOT forced into sex work, someone is making profits off of her repeated rape. They are sick fucks who should be in jail, but it does not seem that you told her that.

You are not going to try and soften the edges of this by refering to her as a sex worker, it is sickening on many levels that you would do so.

 

Quote:
she stated she was pregnant and needed an abortion and did not want to "work" at sex work any more.her childs voice filled with the experiences of a slave was almost unbearable to hear.

Now she has a child's voice? To start you said she spoke like a young woman, so you could her address in that frame of conceptions, which is it?

Did you tell she was not at "work" that she was being raped, and someone was making money off of her rape?

Quote:
she stated she could not get an abortion as she needs parental consent until she is 14...

she can ge an abortion, if she lived in foster care she is a ward of the state already

Quote:
in the end i recommended she contact rape relief via the crisis line as in my opinion they are really the only organization equiped for such a rescue....

good call,

Quote:
too young for welfare, too young to find a job, too young to be taken seriously by police, too young to access women support services.....what the hell are we doing?

 

There is no way they would/could a 12 year old in a independant living program, it wpould be a group home most likely, if a family could not be found.

Quote:
the other young woman i met was in prince george and was also 12 having been a sex worker for 2 years.

No she was not a sex worker she was a raped and exploited 12 year old who had been being raped and exploited by men for 2 years prior.

Please do stop with the sex worker label, it is inappropriate, normalizing the rape and exploitation of  children, is not going to float,

 

.....I feel like I need a fucking shower.

 

"sex workers" = raped and exploited 12 years now,  FFS

 

 gotta go cry, seriously that people could describe it like this is too much, wayyy too much...my granddaughter is 12 and if anyone ever exploited her and raped her she sure as hell would not be a sex worker.....and if someone referred to her as such......it would not be pretty what would happen.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

This should not turn into a thread of what Susan should have done. Please don't let personal vendettas colour your responses. It is highly disturbing that remind claims to feel worse about how susan described the incident than what actually happened to the victim. I certainly have no idea how I would keep as clear a mind as susan did in such a traumatic situation.

martin dufresne

This is no "personal vendetta," there is, as oldgoat indicated diplomatically - and I am trying hard to remain likewise -, a law in B.C. (as everywhere else in Canada) about anyone's duty to report children being harmed: From the government website: Duty to report abuse or suspected abuse
Anyone who has reason to believe that a child has been or is likely to be abused or neglected has a legal duty under the Child, Family and Community Service Act to report the matter.

Let's be clear that the excuses being offered for not doing so wouldn't fly a second in a courtroom.

 

ennir

Perhaps if there were people willing to work together to establish a shelter, just as not so many years ago people worked together to create shelters for women who are being abused. 

susan davis

she just called me again......i am trying to find a bed for her.....apparently you have to be 14 to get into a shelter.....fuck....she doesn't want to call rape reief......she apparently had a bad experience with some one there.....any suggestions people?she is going to call back in 15 minutes.....

please, i apologized for refering to "work"

this is not helping me deal with this situation, please if anyone has any suggestions i would appreciate it......

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Well martin, perhaps you should call the RCMP and report susan's criminal negligence. It is, after all, your civic duty.

ETA: I'm sorry susan, I have no idea. My response would be to call the authorities and try to find her a safe place--anything is safer than where she is--but perhaps you have more experience in knowing how effective that would be in improving her situation. I'm so sorry for your predicament, susan, and of course, that of the girl's.

Infosaturated

susan davis wrote:

she just called me again......i am trying to find a bed for her.....apparently you have to be 14 to get into a shelter.....fuck....she doesn't want to call rape reief......she apparently had a bad experience with some one there.....any suggestions people?she is going to call back in 15 minutes.....

please, i apologized for refering to "work"

this is not helping me deal with this situation, please if anyone has any suggestions i would appreciate it......

Call the authorities, try to get some way to identify her. Name, phone number, ask her to meet you somewhere, anything like that.  She is a child. It is not about respecting her wishes it's about getting her out of the abusive situation she is in.

susan davis

ok, i will try to get to her....i maybe absent for a while trying to deal with this...she is calling from a blocked number and still did not give me her name...i don't want to spook her, know what i mean?i will keep everyone updated about what happens....

susan davis

remind, you are really being rough, i am doing my best here. it's not like i am a support agency with funding and time. i apoligized for my use of the term work......i am not the friggin pimp man....i am the person she reached out to.....

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Actually, susan, babble might be compelled to report this incident to the police.

Infosaturated

Catchfire wrote:

Well martin, perhaps you should call the RCMP and report susan's criminal negligence. It is, after all, your civic duty.

Catchfire, Susan and her friends had a birthday party for a 12 year old girl that was being prostituted, repeatedly being raped, and she and her friends walked away from the situation rather than reporting it out of respect for the girl's atonomy. It's really important that Susan understands that it was not only inappropriate to do so it was also a crime.

The moral and legal responsibility to protect an abused child supercedes the moral obligation of respecting the rights of an individual.

It is in no way attacking Susan personally to say so.

 

oldgoat

This isn't the time for should've or questioning anyones motives.

 

If the kid calls again, you might get her to write down the kids helpline #. 1-800-668-6868.  This childs situation will not be new to them, and they have as good resources as anyone.  If the child doesn't wish to call them now encourage her to at least keep the number.

 

If you know where she is you should call the police.  Her stated wishes are secondary right now.  She is in immediate peril and we are the adults.

Infosaturated

ennir wrote:

Perhaps if there were people willing to work together to establish a shelter, just as not so many years ago people worked together to create shelters for women who are being abused. 

It would be illegal to place a 12 year old in a shelter.  Abused children are placed in protection either in foster homes or group homes not shelters.

Infosaturated

susan davis wrote:

ok, i will try to get to her....i maybe absent for a while trying to deal with this...she is calling from a blocked number and still did not give me her name...i don't want to spook her, know what i mean?i will keep everyone updated about what happens....

I do understand that your current situation with this young girl is difficult and I wish you the best of luck in keeping in contact with her.

remind remind's picture

Catchfire wrote:
This should not turn into a thread of what Susan should have done. Please don't let personal vendettas colour your responses. It is highly disturbing that remind claims to feel worse about how susan described the incident than what actually happened to the victim. I certainly have no idea how I would keep as clear a mind as susan did in such a traumatic situation.

ReallY?

 

You think you have a fucking right to say that to me?

Think about what you just fucking said and did catchfire. This is how it breaks down:

 

It most certtainly is a thread about what susan should have done...in fact she asked for input. I know the child protection laws in BC, I know what is supposed to have occured and didn't.

NO fucking personal vendetta's "coloured" my thinking, how dare you suggest such, she referred to a 12 year old girl as a "sex worker"....if anything  influencved my thinking was visualizing someone doing this to my granddaughter, and then having someone else refer to her as a sex worker.

@#%$^%$W@T&^$

What is highly disturbing is apparently you are more worried about, my alleged vendetta against susan and sticking up for her, when she did the wrong damn thing, and your vendetta against me, than you are about the  young girl being raped and exploited. You just played politics with her.

Do you think my outrage is fake, and that I expressed no concern for the girl? get a  grip catchfire, seriously..

I am not going to give susan  credit not for one fucking minute over this. In fact, I could have, and should have,  come down harder on her and I regret now that I did not.

 

There are call displays, and  incoming call check capabilities in BC and have been for decades, susan failed her, and then she called her a sex worker...

And then you have the nerve to come down on me and accuse me of having a vendetta?

 

 

remind remind's picture

In BC if there is a blocked call and someone is at risk, or someone makes threats, you call the RCMP and the children's help line tell and them what has happened and they immediately can get the number and address fom Telus,  or whatever carrier is being used.

Anyhow, I can't deal wiith this all gtg.

 

fortunate

Catchfire wrote:

This should not turn into a thread of what Susan should have done. Please don't let personal vendettas colour your responses. It is highly disturbing that remind claims to feel worse about how susan described the incident than what actually happened to the victim. I certainly have no idea how I would keep as clear a mind as susan did in such a traumatic situation.

Yes, susan is not responsible for what happened to this girl.  That the girl felt comfortable enough to come to talk to susan should be commended.  Clearly what she is doing is reaching out, and some are listening. 

I would say do what you can to meet with her and go from there.  A lot of people don't know about the resources and so on available.  There is no reason why they should, if not in that field or encountering these problems daily.  Certainly if she met more like this young girl, she would already have an action plan in place.  Clearly, in spite of all the work she does and the people she knows, this is a rare occurrence?  Next time, if there is one, she will know what to do right from the start.  The fact that she is willing to do something at all makes her a compassionate person, in my opinion.  There have been many many many people who have come in and out of this child's life, before susan arrived, who know exactly what has been going on and did nothing at all, including not even talking to her.  There is no way another responsible adult could not suspect something was going on, a teacher, doctor, whatever.  Yet here there are some who would prefer to attack susan for her lack of knowledge when she only just met this girl.  There are a lot more people out there who deserve blame and contempt, but she is not one of them.

ennir

I second what fortunate said, it really concerns me that Susan's request for assistance has become an opportunity to attack her.

As to the shelter I mentioned, I was thinking of a shelter that specifically addressed the needs of children such as this.

martin dufresne

What oldgoat said. Susan has been clear that this child is in mortal danger.

susan davis

ok, so i spoke to her again and to police and there will be an opportunity to try to try to interveen tonight. she said she has a call booked at a downtown hotel and had wanted to make some money before going into support. i arranged to meet her at the hotel at which point i am supposed to take her to a shelter.

the police came to my house and i gave them all information including what i told her my description is.they are going to set up cars around the hotel and send in plain clothes police to apprehend her in the hotel lobby.the police promised to let me know if they find her so i will let everyone know what happens.

i feel horrible about lying to her but am in full agreement with everyone that she is in danger and so i will live with that.cross your fingers that police find her tonight.

martin dufresne

Bravo and thank you: despite your misgivings, you may well have saved her life.

remind remind's picture

Susan, just want to step back from this and say thank you for get on helping her.

And thank you for apologizing for your wording of such a thing.

 

I saw my granddaughter in my mind's eye with the story, and IMV, it was you calling her that, and it all went down hill after that.

 

Hope it all turns out okay..again thank you for being there for her.

 

She needs a home out of the GVA, contact me by pm,  with the pertinents, and i can perhaps mange to have her come stay with me for  a while with child protection services,

 

 

Infosaturated

susan davis wrote:

i feel horrible about lying to her but am in full agreement with everyone that she is in danger and so i will live with that.cross your fingers that police find her tonight.

That's wonderful Susan. I understand why you feel badly about lying to her. I hope you get to meet her and give her a hug. Just know in your heart you are saving her from far worse than a little white lie.

remind remind's picture

No update....?

 

what did child protection say to you susan when they called you?

susan davis

no, police said they would call me and let me know either way but big surprise....no word yet. i will call the non emergency number in a bit and enquire. i have to shower up and get ready for work first.

i will let people know if i find out anything. thanks for all your support.i meant alot to me....and still does.

remind remind's picture

Okay, well, I am going to call child protection services, and the Van city police about this, and will be using your name and what you have revealed here, to see what they have to say. And will indicate this thread at babble to them.

 

This is not something I am just going to let go and sweep the crumbs off the table onto the floor.

 

babble, especially as it was reported here, and every adult here has an obligation to that little girl, who is being raped and exploited, to follow through with this.

They can track every number coming into a phone, blocked or not.

 

Should have done this yesterday already...

martin dufresne

Good idea: The more they hear about concerned people, the less chances of her being failed by the system and "falling through the net" like so many do.

oldgoat

Actually, given laws around confidentiality, it would not be uncommon for a reporting person to hear nothing.  No harm in multiple people reporting though.

susan davis

true, and i support people calling to enquire.

susan davis

they did not get her, i just heard from police now..........they waited for 2 hours, did not see her or anyone fitting her description.

sorry everyone, i tried......

Infosaturated

susan davis wrote:

they did not get her, i just heard from police now..........they waited for 2 hours, did not see her or anyone fitting her description.

sorry everyone, i tried......

I'm sorry too, hopefully she will call you again.  Maybe you could look into their ability to trace the call even if it's blocked?

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

dial *69 NOW but it only does it for the last call n she proly called u from a payphone get it done tho.

 

edit - dam nvm I know too many girls that are 1 step away from this lol n I cant do shit about it.

 

all I can say is well u kno this is KKKanada cuzz despite what AmerIKKKans think we do live in igloos they called the projects. and niggas do wear a toque only thing is it got roccs, a brillo pad and a pipe in it. It is what it is.

ennir

remind wrote:

Okay, well, I am going to call child protection services, and the Van city police about this, and will be using your name and what you have revealed here, to see what they have to say. And will indicate this thread at babble to them.

 

This is not something I am just going to let go and sweep the crumbs off the table onto the floor.

 

babble, especially as it was reported here, and every adult here has an obligation to that little girl, who is being raped and exploited, to follow through with this.

They can track every number coming into a phone, blocked or not.

 

Should have done this yesterday already...

Have you done this Remind?

Susan, I am really sorry that you have been attacked repeatedly for this, I would understand if you never posted anything on this board again given the hostility towards you over just this issue, but I hope you do.   As to those of you who attacked her, I am stunned by your hostility towards Susan, as far as I can see no matter what she does you find a way to take it and use it as a weapon against her and the way you have used her trusting us in this incidence is seriously fucking ugly.

 

Stargazer

Unfortunately it didn't turn out well for the little girl.  From what I gather she has a severe distrust of the police and didn't respond to susan afterwards.

 

Susan can correct me here if I am wrong.

martin dufresne

Stargazer: From what I gather she has a severe distrust of the police and didn't respond to susan afterwards.

How so? Does susan have her phone number?

susan davis

no, as i explained, she must have seen police at the opus hotel where i was supposed to  be and so never called me back again. she had called me 3 times before the arranged meeting, and because i breached her trust, ie called police- she never called me again

Stargazer

Stop being a jaclass martin. It is getting pretty fucking tiring. Ya, flag my post.

martin dufresne

Can't you conceive that all of us are simply trying to help this child?

Michelle

[Edited to be more reasonable...]

Martin, I would suggest that if you haven't followed the story enough to know that Susan didn't have the girl's phone number, then perhaps you should refrain from commenting on it until you have read Susan's posts above, where she tells us in excellent detail what happened.  That way you'll know the facts of the matter before offering advice or judgement.

And Stargazer, come on, you know that namecalling isn't allowed.

 

oldgoat

I should add that even someone who may know something of emergency services for adult women might have little luck navigating childrens services or really understanding the issues should they suddenly fing themselves in that position.  Completely different paragigm.  Little overlap of services. I doubt if I could have done much better myself under similar cicumstances, so let's have a bit of understanding and move on.