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I'm wading through the plethora of info on this topic and I'm struggling to find good resources that don't reduce women to fetus holders.
Can any babblers who have had kids or know of good resources help me out?
I put this in the feminism forum because I thought that a discussion would probably come of this request and I wanted to encourage that.
Originally posted by Le Tйlйspectateur:[b]I'm wading through the plethora of info on this topic and I'm struggling to find good resources that don't reduce women to fetus holders.[/b]
Once conception takes place, and there's a desire to go on to childbirth, both mother and father have childcare as their primary responsibility in life. Any veering from that is completely immoral. That would include, for example, greater than normal diligence in the mother's diet. We deal with the cards evolution has dealt us. A healthy embryonic environment probably has much impact on a person's life as any other factor.
[ 17 December 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]
Dude, you're a weirdo.
Le Tele, it's great that you're looking into these resources. There are tons. Here's a small sample:
[url=http://www.womensbookstore.com/cgi-bin/store/twb_01.cgi]Toronto Women's Bookstore's online webstore: Pregnancy and Midwifery[/url]
[url=http://www.parentbooks.ca/Booklists.htm#prenatal]Parentbooks.ca: Pre and Peri Natal booklist[/url]
FYI I'm not a parent and won't ever be, but I'm always happy to help out with book recommendations. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
And, um, 500? Sometimes there's only one parent, sometimes there are two parents and they're both women, sometimes women don't know they're pregnant until after 6 or more weeks and they've already been smoking and drinking during early pregnancy, sometimes women can't afford to buy healthy food, sometimes despite best intentions, women who are pregnant are reduced to being baby-incubators and are endlessly judged by the world and the childless. In real life real things happen. Telling people that they shouldn't have children if they are unable to live up to your listed standards is fucked up.
Ahem, especially in the feminist forum, 500.
Originally posted by bigcitygal:[b]And, um, 500? Sometimes there's only one parent, sometimes there are two parents and they're both women, sometimes women don't know they're pregnant until after 6 or more weeks and they've already been smoking and drinking during early pregnancy, sometimes women can't afford to buy healthy food, [/b]
Exceptionally unfortunate circumstances require a different analysis, of course. For the case of a woman not realizing she's pregnant for six months, that would require some very specific medical intervention and advice. Does the average obstetrician even see one such case in his professional career? Hopefully they would know who to refer the patient to. I may be misreading Le Tele, but I got the impression he came across something like "hyperactvity is a symptom of fetal alcohol syndrome" and was bothered by it. Perhaps he actually came across something less benign, and then my assumptions would be wrong.
To be honest most of what I've ever seen from genuine sources are statistics and discussion of how lifestyle choices in pregnancy will impact a child's development. I just don't see how any rational person could ever have a beef with that. It's terribly useful and interesting and empowering, If I had actually been comparatively good at biology I might be working on that.
Ahem, especially in the feminist forum, 500.
Yes I know, hence the "that's all". I was just shocked by what he said on the TAT.
500, dude, I think you're way out of line here.
Exceptionally unfortunate circumstances require a different analysis, of course.
What the heck does this mean? Have you not seen the stats that say the traditional model of family, with one parent or each gender is in the vast minority of families these days? Single moms and single dads are everywhere. Since you edited your post, it no longer reads that anyone that doesn't subscribe to your standards of parenthood should chose to not have children.
For the case of a woman not realizing she's pregnant for six months,
Dude, I said 6 [i]weeks[/i], you even quoted it. This is very very common, btw (that women don't know they're pregnant until 6 weeks or so).
How about this: since you clearly have no helpful resources to offer Le Tele, how's about you decide to refrain from posting until you can offer some?
That's "one parent of each gender" not "or". Oops.
Originally posted by 500_Apples:[b]Once conception takes place, and there's a desire to go on to childbirth, both mother and father have childcare as their primary responsibility in life. Any veering from that is completely immoral.[/b]
Huh? any veering from that is completely immoral? Who are you to be the judge jury and executioner of what is immoral or not immoral when it comes to everyone else in the world?
Moreover, are you trying to tell us those women, who live in war conditions and who have children are immoral because childcare cannot be primary fixation? Are you trying to say women/grrrls who get pregnant, and who do not have the income to eat decently are immoral, or are they just immoral they got pregnant when they couldn't afford to? Things are not so clear cut in "real" life 500_apples, I suggest you try experienciong it and maybe you won't be so wrongfully sanctimonious.
On that note, 500_apples please refrain from posting in the feminist forum, you have been asked this before, and you had stepped back to read only, please do so again, as obviously you have not learned, nor understood a thing you read.
Okay, this is a problem. You just asked 500_Apples a whole bunch of questions in the first half of your post, remind, despite the fact that a moderator asked him above your post not to post anymore in this thread.
And then in the last paragraph of your post, you once again take on the role of moderator and tell him not to post in the feminism forum - after asking him a bunch of questions in the same post.
I would ask you to leave the moderating to the moderators from now on. And please, if one of the moderators have told someone not to post in the thread or the forum, then you can consider whatever they've done wrong to have been addressed. It's not fair to address people who have been asked by moderators not to post anymore in a thread, because they can't respond. It's also not fair to ask them a bunch of questions, and then tell them not to respond to you because it's in the feminism forum. If someone shouldn't be posting in the feminism forum, you shouldn't be addressing them here.
[ 17 December 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Ah, I see BCG's post now, as well as apples subsequent post, I had put the reply window up and started to reply to his initial post but wandered away to peel potatoes, and thought about how much more nicely I could respond rather than the fuck off I had written. It was much later when I replied from the initital point which I started to fromand missed sevral posts as a matter of fact. My apologies.
The questions were purely rhetorical, and closed ended and thus not requiring a response and I am sure he got it.
Thanks for the resources BCG. Sorry that I snapped at you 500 but I found your comments a little sexist (as has been touched upon by others, no need to dwell).