Score 1 for sex worker ? for serial killer

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Pondering
Score 1 for sex worker ? for serial killer

"He had a machete, shovel, two axes, a bunch of knives, a double-headed ax, a bulletproof vest, numerous sets of handcuffs, as well as the firearm used to kill him," Lt. Steve Cooper of the Charleston, West Virginia, police department, told The Huffington Post.

Police also found a list containing the names of an unspecified number of women inside the man's vehicle.

.....

"We have been able to locate most of them and they were all on a website advertising for escort services," Cooper said. "The stuff that we found is so alarming that we want law enforcement across the country to be aware of it."

Falls, 45, was killed on Saturday after he met a female escort through Backpage.com, an online classified ad portal often used by men seeking prostitutes. Falls went to the escort's Charleston apartment, and got into a brief but intense altercation with her, police said.

"Nearly immediately after he stepped into her apartment, he said 'live or die' and a struggle ensued," Cooper said. "[Falls] laid his gun on a counter so that he could get a firmer grip around the victim's throat with both his hands and she was able to scoop that weapon up and fire one round, killing Mr. Falls."

The escort, who has not been identified, was hospitalized with multiple injuries, including broken vertebrae. Authorities have determined the shooting was a justifiable homicide.

Incredibly strong woman to have kept her head and gotten the gun and fired it. The attack occured in her own apartment.

Advertising on Backpage or any similar site is an advertisement for men who want to abuse women. I am glad advertising by third parties has been made illegal in Canada. No one should be able to profit from placing women in danger even if it is the woman themselves to initiate it.

Pondering
takeitslowly

The correct term is sex worker.

lagatta

I think that depends about one's attitude to sex work. Pondering wrote nothing derogatory about the woman; on the contrary.

takeitslowly

I feel the term is deragatory and I have some idea about pondering's attitude toward sex.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I expect that the choice between the words "separatist" and "sovereigntist" probably similarly depend on one's attitude toward sovereigntism (or, separatism).

But I think that progressives have historically tried to go with whatever a population identifies as, and chooses as their label.  Why would this be different?

takeitslowly

well babble has a sex worker forum, not a prostitute forum

quizzical

some feminists don't recognize  the title sex worker. the term only has to be used in the sex worker forum, not here.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

The Mods have noted many times that all of babble is feminist space. There's no freedom to be anti-feminist just because you're not in th FF.

This is somehow different? OFFICIALLY different?

takeitslowly

oh my.

quizzical

yup.

 

and use of prostitute is NOT anti-feminist at all.

takeitslowly

I disagree.

Pondering

I respect the choice of women who prefer to use the term sex worker for themselves or others. I would never refer to Susan Davis as anything other than "sex worker" because that is the term she chooses for herself and others in the same profession. 

The word "prostitute" is used by many women who have been in the profession and The New Zealand Prostitute's Collective has it in their name. I believe "prostitute" is also used in legal documents. I consider the term "sex worker" to be too vague as it includes women who are not prostitutes.

lagatta

And one's orientation towards sex work has nothing to do with "attitudes towards sex". That is the old insinuation that people who would like to achieve the abolition of the trade are sex-hating puritans. There are many different positions within the feminist movement on this issue. You might want to read the recent Québec solidaire documents: in general abolitionist, but not through legal, repressive means. I don't think there is any way out without ending dire poverty among women and girls.

mark_alfred

The incident took place in West Virginia, which has criminalized both full-service sex workers and their customers (aka, prostitutes and their johns). See link.  Also, the attacker was from Oregon, which similarly criminalizes sex workers and their customers.  See link2.  Thus, it could be seen as example of how criminalization of full service sex work makes it ever more dangerous for full service sex workers (IE, forces sex workers more underground, and it fosters more social ambivilance toward them). 

Pondering

mark_alfred wrote:

The incident took place in West Virginia, which has criminalized both full-service sex workers and their customers (aka, prostitutes and their johns). See link.  Also, the attacker was from Oregon, which similarly criminalizes sex workers and their customers.  See link2.  Thus, it could be seen as example of how criminalization of full service sex work makes it ever more dangerous for full service sex workers (IE, forces sex workers more underground, and it fosters more social ambivilance toward them). 

Tim Bosma died trying to sell his car because he went with a stranger to allow him a test drive. Allowing strangers to come to your home, being alone with them, is a dangerous thing to do.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3001792/Woman-accused-cutting-ba...

'She cut me in the stomach, I'm bleeding out': Horrifying 911 call of seven-months pregnant woman 'who had her baby cut out of her in frenzied attack by woman who lured her with Craigslist ad'

The most frequent type of random crazy is aimed at women by men and most especially women who are sexually active even more so if they charge and/or are attractive. Men can be victims, like Tim Bosma, and women can be perpetrators as in the pregnancy attack. Backpage is like dial-a-victim for serial killers as well as your average abusive man who is willing to pay for it.

Legitimization can't protect against this type of targeting. A woman alone allowing a stranger into her home or going into his is seriously dangerous, sometimes even if you know the man and people know that you are with him, like Jian Ghomeshi, a real sweetheart in comparison to what else is on the roulette wheel.

MegB

Thread title edited to reflect a more progressive sex worker supportive term. Let's not use words like "prostitute", "call girl", etc.

mark_alfred

Statistically I bet there's far more incidents of violence (including murder) between married couples than there are between strangers doing commerce on sites like Backpage or Craigslist.  Thus, marriage should be illegal.

Pondering

mark_alfred wrote:

Statistically I bet there's far more incidents of violence (including murder) between married couples than there are between strangers doing commerce on sites like Backpage or Craigslist.  Thus, marriage should be illegal.

Percentage wise I doubt it.

Pondering

MegB wrote:

Thread title edited to reflect a more progressive sex worker supportive term. Let's not use words like "prostitute", "call girl", etc.

Websters defines sex worker thus:

sex worker nounDefinition of SEX WORKER :  a person whose work involves sexually explicit behavior; especially :  prostitute 1

The term also includes actors in porn and strippers and that is according to Susan Davis. It is a less accurate term.

Prostitute is not a disrespectful term and it is used within the thread and by women who have been or are prostitutes. It is the legal term used in legislation.

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/feminist-current/2015/01/it%E2%80%99s-ca...

For the record, feminists use the term "prostituted woman" instead of "sex worker" because this term describes the context and power dynamics behind the "choice" to enter into prostitution, because this is the term used by many exited prostitutes, and because the term "sex worker" is explicitly intended to erase the exploitative nature of the sex industry, as well as the role class, race, and gender play in terms of who sells sex to whom and why.

In my opinion you are expressing personal bias in changing the name of this thread. "Prostitute" is a word used by rabble and by many progressive women.

"Sex worker" is used by people who favor legalization.

If it stays sex worker then I don't want to be the thread author because it is not a term that I would ever use.

I don't know what you're capable of changing but if you can't change it then I would appreciate the thread being deleted because I would not have begun it under your terms.

 

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Morality laws must be abolished.It's a 19th Century policy.

And it would end most,if not all,problems including exploitation and violence agaiunst women.

Domestic violence on the other hand is the real problem.

quizzical

bs it would not end most or even a few problems. if men are willing to be violent against  their partners and children they sure as fuck won't give a shit about a stranger.

 

and i call fking bs on your use of "morality" in the feminist forum to try and say feminist abolitionists are doing this based on morality beliefs. you are expropriating MY VOICE, LIVED EXPERIENCES FORMING OPINIONS AND PERCEPTIONS. STOP!!!!!

Pondering

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I expect that the choice between the words "separatist" and "sovereigntist" probably similarly depend on one's attitude toward sovereigntism (or, separatism).

But I think that progressives have historically tried to go with whatever a population identifies as, and chooses as their label.  Why would this be different?

It isn't different. Some prostitutes and former prostitutes prefer the word "prostitute" rather than the more general "sex worker" that also refers to workers who are not prostitutes. 

It seems to me that the term "sex worker" is used to blur the lines between different types of "sex work". I'm against making sex work illegal but in favor of prostitution being illegal.

"Sex worker" is not a synonym for prostitute therefore the words cannot be used interchangably.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

quizzical wrote:

bs it would not end most or even a few problems. if men are willing to be violent against  their partners and children they sure as fuck won't give a shit about a stranger.

 

and i call fking bs on your use of "morality" in the feminist forum to try and say feminist abolitionists are doing this based on morality beliefs. you are expropriating MY VOICE, LIVED EXPERIENCES FORMING OPINIONS AND PERCEPTIONS. STOP!!!!!

Morality laws are inherently immoral.

Relax.

It's also morality laws that keep sex workers in danger.

BS? Sorry. It's called reality.

Pondering

I am not rebooting the argument on legitimization of prostitution as an industry. It's been discussed from every angle. So far there have been no legal challenges to the new law that I have heard of.

Regardless of the legality or illegality of prostitution there are dangers inherent in backpage/Craigslist types of listings to everyone but even more so for lone woman. This is why I cited both Bosma and the pregnant woman who was attacked by another woman.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pondering wrote:

I am not rebooting the argument on legitimization of prostitution as an industry. It's been discussed from every angle. So far there have been no legal challenges to the new law that I have heard of.

Regardless of the legality or illegality of prostitution there are dangers inherent in backpage/Craigslist types of listings to everyone but even more so for lone woman. This is why I cited both Bosma and the pregnant woman who was attacked by another woman.

 

Legal prostitution would mean legal brothels which would mean workers would not have to advertise their services on Craigslist or any other publication. It would also put pimps out of business which would take a huge bite out of exploitation and white slavery.

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

bs it would not end most or even a few problems. if men are willing to be violent against  their partners and children they sure as fuck won't give a shit about a stranger.

and i call fking bs on your use of "morality" in the feminist forum to try and say feminist abolitionists are doing this based on morality beliefs. you are expropriating MY VOICE, LIVED EXPERIENCES FORMING OPINIONS AND PERCEPTIONS. STOP!!!!!

Morality laws are inherently immoral.

Relax.

It's also morality laws that keep sex workers in danger.

BS? Sorry. It's called reality.

Nowhere in the world has decriminalization of prostitution led to a measurable net reduction of violence against prostitutes so what you claim to be "reality" is your opinion not fact.

While some women claim that they are not harmed by prostitution there are many woman and communities who claim extreme harm from prostitution. Many aboriginal communities consider it an extension of colonialism.

How to avoid becoming victims of male violence is a deadly serious topic for women regardless of the circumstances under which it occurs.

For now the question of legality in Canada is settled. There are no legal challenges being heard. This incident was specific to backpage and the safety ramifications of using this method of advertising for anyone and especially for prostitutes.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

So let's continue subject these women to live in clandestine shadows,exploited by their pimps,the cops and their clients.

In Amsterdam and Hamburg,the workers are protected and if you can show me the numbers that prove that legal sex workers have to deal with the realities of sex work in countries still clinging to 19th century morality laws,I promise to shut up.

Pondering

alan smithee wrote:

So let's continue subject these women to live in clandestine shadows,exploited by their pimps,the cops and their clients.

In Amsterdam and Hamburg,the workers are protected and if you can show me the numbers that prove that legal sex workers have to deal with the realities of sex work in countries still clinging to 19th century morality laws,I promise to shut up.

It is not your place to hijack a thread in the feminist forum and make it all about legalizing prostitution.

Your simplistic logic has not proven to be the case in real life and has been argued out countless times on babble at a much more sophisticated level.

It will take at least ten years to see whether or not the new law has had a net positive or negative impact on Canada.

I would appreciate it if you would allow women to lead the conversation without us having to meet your demands to get you to shut up.

 

Sineed

Alan smithee wrote:

I could rip you another one but I'll refrain.

If you are against legal prostitution,you're a pathetic excuse for a feminist.

I've reported this personal attack, fyi.

Alan smithee wrote:

And for the women who actually CHOOSE to work in the sex business,legality equals safety.

Sorry you can't swallow that fact.

"Choice" is only truly free if the people making it have the freedom to make other choices; that is to say, lliberated from oppression. In my experience working in addiction treatment, the vast majority of sex workers/prostitutes tend to leave that industry when they are no longer economically coerced by addictions or extreme poverty of other causes.

And the case that legalization results in safety has not been proved. The fact of the matter is since time immemorial, sex work/prostitution has put women in harm's way. Certain psychopathic men are drawn to murder sex workers. Unlike the case for legalization, that's a fact that has been conclusively proven.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Not going to go there

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Sineed wrote:

Alan smithee wrote:

I could rip you another one but I'll refrain.

If you are against legal prostitution,you're a pathetic excuse for a feminist.

I've reported this personal attack, fyi.

Alan smithee wrote:

And for the women who actually CHOOSE to work in the sex business,legality equals safety.

Sorry you can't swallow that fact.

"Choice" is only truly free if the people making it have the freedom to make other choices; that is to say, lliberated from oppression. In my experience working in addiction treatment, the vast majority of sex workers/prostitutes tend to leave that industry when they are no longer economically coerced by addictions or extreme poverty of other causes.

And the case that legalization results in safety has not been proved. The fact of the matter is since time immemorial, sex work/prostitution has put women in harm's way. Certain psychopathic men are drawn to murder sex workers. Unlike the case for legalization, that's a fact that has been conclusively proven.

I see. So you agree that our drug and prostitution laws are a failure.

I don't see how prohibition helps sex workers.

In any case,I'm done with this topic.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Thanks, Meg.

Jezebel.com gets it.

Hero Woman Acting in Self-Defense May Have Just Offed a Serial Killer

Quote:

A sex worker in Charleston, West Virginia shot and killed a man in self-defense who had a list of prostitutes in his pocket and a “kill kit” in his Subaru. Police are now beginning to link the 45-year-old man, Neal Falls, to the unsolved murders of sex workers in the Las Vegas area and in Chillicothe, Ohio.

...

As the Daily Dot points out, police have historically not been so great at investigating the deaths of sex workers. It’s not clear yet whether or not Falls can be connected to these various other killing sprees around the country, what is clear is this: this woman is brave as hell, and has likely saved more lives than just her own.

Bold added

mark_alfred

Now magazine had an article in their last issue about Backpage and sex work. 

Pondering

Two child sex trafficking victims have filed a lawsuit against Backpage.com that paints a disturbing picture of how thousands of kids are sold for sex every year in the US.

The two survivors, who are now 17 and 20, claim their pimps were facilitated by the services of Backpage, a nationwide classified ads website with a notorious "escorts" section that allegedly facilitates prostitution.

One victim, referred to only as Jane 1, was exclusively trafficked on Backpage and raped about 1,000 times after after she ran away from home at the age of 15, according to the complaint. Her pimp allegedly used a function on Backpage that let him advertise her in multiple cities so he could move her every one to two days depending on where people wanted to buy her.

Jane 1 is just one of an estimated 100,000 kids being used as prostitutes every year in America. Just over the summer, the FBI rescued 168 children who were being trafficked in dozens of cities from New York to Omaha to Minneapolis to Los Angeles. 

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/child-sex-trafficking-victims-sue-backpage-2014-10#ixzz3h1qy7c3M

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2014/10/21/the-online-mar...

It’s unclear how many of Vann’s apparent victims were targeted using Backpage, but it was his final act — finding his victim through classifieds on the site — that led police to his doorstep, authorities said.

Like many sex-crime victims whose services were openly advertised on the Internet (sometimes unwillingly), the dead northwest Indiana women seemed to share the commonality that they “might be less likely to be reported missing,” said Gary Mayor Karen Freeman-Wilson, according to the Chicago Tribune. Of the seven women found with Vann’s help — some of them long dead — only one, 35-year-old Anith Jones, had been reported missing....

Around 5:13 p.m. last Friday, Hardy texted a woman — who police called the “facilitator” — to say that Big Boy Appetite had arrived at a room at the Motel 6 in Hammond.  But when the “appointment” ran long, the woman called Hardy’s cellphone eight times, according to the court documents. The only replies she received were suspicious messages, police said. Later that night, the woman drove to the motel room with a male friend to check on Hardy, police said; she found Vann gone and Hardy’s lifeless, naked body in the bath tub with the shower still running....

In Detroit, James C. Brown was convicted in February of carrying out the murders of four women he met in the adult classifieds section of Backpage.com — all in the same week before Christmas in 2011. His crimes were dubbed the “Backpage murders.”

http://www.vocativ.com/underworld/crime/gay-ohio-college-student-latest-...

Justin Earley, a 22-year-old gay college student from Ohio, is the latest young person to fall prey to this horrific 21st-century crime. A 34-year-old sex offender is accused of killing him and hiding his body for weeks. The two reportedly met through Backpage.com, the smutty online classifieds site known for its adult entertainment listings.

Earley’s friends filed a missing persons report when he failed to return home on Dec. 29, and his body was discovered three weeks later wrapped in a comforter in a closet. The suspect, John R. Fox, has a disturbing criminal history, including a 2004 conviction for engaging in unlawful sexual conduct with a 14-year-old girl.

http://patch.com/illinois/joliet/alleged-evergreen-ripper-found-victim-i...

The Joliet man charged with butchering a young woman in an Evergreen Terrace laundry room told police he contacted her through a website for escorts and killed her when she wanted more money for sex, a prosecutor said.

Drumaine McKinley, 35, told police he spent Tuesday night out drinking with his wife and another couple when he strayed off to a casino and decided to look for a prostitute on the website Backpage, Assistant State’s Attorney Peter Wilkes said during McKinley’s bond hearing Thursday afternoon.

McKinley found 20-year-old Joslyn Woods of Joliet, Wilkes said, and they met in the laundry room of a building in the Evergreen Terrace apartment complex.

Surveillance video showed McKinley and Woods walk into the laundry room about 6:15 a.m. Wednesday, Wilkes said,

http://patch.com/illinois/joliet/alleged-evergreen-ripper-found-victim-i...

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ncmec-urges-washington-state-sup... Urges Washington State Supreme Court To Allow Victims' Case Against Backpage To Be Heard "I enjoy catering to mature gentlemen. My body is a gentleman's playground." - ad appearing on backpage.com confirmed to be selling a child for sex, as cited in NCMEC's amicus brief

ALEXANDRIA, Va., Sept. 10, 2014 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Sexually explicit language advertising the sale of children for sex is a common business practice for backpage.com.

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children filed an amicus brief urging the Washington State Supreme Court to allow three child sex trafficking victims to have their day in court against the online classified advertising website owned by Backpage LLC.

NCMEC's brief, filed in response to Backpage's motion to dismiss the victims' case, argues that Backpage enables the development of child sex trafficking ads on its site, which results in the repeated sexual exploitation and victimization of children.

In the past five years, NCMEC's Child Sex Trafficking Team has seen a 1,432-percent increase in reports of suspected child sex trafficking. Today a majority of child sex trafficking ads reported to NCMEC involve ads posted on backpage.com. Clearly, it was not Congress' intent to protect online companies enabling the sale of children for sex when they enacted the Communications Decency Act in 1996.

Despite Backpage's knowledge that it has created a lucrative marketplace for child sex trafficking on its website, it has rejected most of NCMEC's recommendations to help reduce the selling and buying of children for sex on its website and has only made minimal efforts to curb the posting of child sexual exploitative content.

http://onlineathens.com/breaking-news/2015-06-22/alleged-backpagecom-rap...

Alleged Backpage.com rapist indicted for sexual assaults of three women in Athens By Joe Johnsonupdated Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 5:20am0 comments

A Madison County man who allegedly found victims through Backpage.com last week was indicted for the alleged sexual assaults of three women in Athens over a two-year period. Authorities said one of the assaults was the knifepoint rape of a woman at a motel near downtown Athens.

Garry Shane Chatham of Danielsville was charged with rape, aggravated sodomy, three counts of aggravated assault, two counts of criminal attempt to commit rape and felony violation of bond, according to an indictment filed last Tuesday in Clarke County Superior Court.

Authorities said Chatham shopped for prostitutes using Backpage.com, the free online classified advertising service.

Following his arrest for a December 2013 alleged rape and aggravated assault at Days Inn on North Finley Street, Chatham was granted an $80,000 bond and released from jail with an ankle monitor. He subsequently violated bond and was re-arrested in February. He was charged with two additional alleged sexual assaults after grand jurors were presented last week with cases in which women accused Chatham of trying to rape them, in August 2011 and November 2012.

 

Need more?

MegB

alan smithee wrote:

Sineed wrote:

Alan smithee wrote:

I could rip you another one but I'll refrain.

If you are against legal prostitution,you're a pathetic excuse for a feminist.

I've reported this personal attack, fyi.

Alan smithee wrote:

And for the women who actually CHOOSE to work in the sex business,legality equals safety.

Sorry you can't swallow that fact.

"Choice" is only truly free if the people making it have the freedom to make other choices; that is to say, lliberated from oppression. In my experience working in addiction treatment, the vast majority of sex workers/prostitutes tend to leave that industry when they are no longer economically coerced by addictions or extreme poverty of other causes.

And the case that legalization results in safety has not been proved. The fact of the matter is since time immemorial, sex work/prostitution has put women in harm's way. Certain psychopathic men are drawn to murder sex workers. Unlike the case for legalization, that's a fact that has been conclusively proven.

I see. So you agree that our drug and prostitution laws are a failure.

I don't see how prohibition helps sex workers.

In any case,I'm done with this topic.

Good, because this topic is done with you. Before you wade into the feminist forum to attack women babblers again, rethink what the fuck you are trying to accompllish by behaving that way in a feminist space.

quizzical

tks meg.