Some days I get so depressed

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Some days I get so depressed

Reading the casual anti-woman comments scattered about and the vocal and powerful defence by the men here to keep using them, I question whether any space can be truly pro-feminist if this place of all places can't.



I guess I'm just tired of the fight and don't want to fight any more. Somedays I just want to stay in bed and those days are becoming more frequent.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I'm sorry to hear this, Buttonwood. I know of lots of wonderful pro-feminist, women-only spaces in 3D which exist across this country. Do you know of one near you? There may be babblers who can help you find one if you're interested.

I know it can be an uphill and wearying climb on babble sometimes -- for all of us. I can't tell you to keep trying if it causes you stress or even pain, but the more voices like yours here, the more the culture here will change.

And I don't know about you, but I always find it easier to get out of bed in the summertime!


Babble is a very challenging environment for women - especially those of us who identify as feminists.

I've found that picking my battles and being flexible about who my allies are makes the experience much less frustrating.  Usually.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm for taking a very hard line - when someone makes a blatantly anti-feminist, racist,  or homophobic remark, ban 'em.  There's other forums if they don't like it here. Toughen up the rules if necessary. No mercy.


Hard line hasn't worked thus far, and we need to take into account posting history, etc.  Trolls are one thing.  New people who want to participate but haven't found out how yet, there's got to be some understanding and patience. 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Nevertheless, I believe zero tolerance is the way to go. Folks will wise up fast.


My experience with zero tolerance is mostly negative, and unhelpful.  I don't think it changes attitudes.  Maybe behaviours for a short period of time ...

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Yeah, on reflection, I think you're right. Maybe a 'three strikes' rule would work. I know something needs to be done because it's outrageous to me that feminists feel uncomfortable here. That's unacceptable to me because this is supposed to be a feminist - friendly board - no? Where do we draw the line? 

Maybe it's time to go back to those who started rabble/babble and see what they envisioned at the time.


Boom Boom wrote:

Maybe it's time to go back to those who started rabble/babble and see what they envisioned at the time.

That sounds like the U.S. Supreme Court talking, Boom Boom. 

Believe it or not, but I do sympathise. I just don't think going backwards or hauling out an even bigger stick is going to make things any better. I think Rebecca offered some sage advice upthread, and it echoes what I think has been the biggest problem plaguing this place. 

People might leave, and people might get kicked out, but the fact is that in terms of dealing with these differences and problems, nobody has gone away, and nobody is going away, even though it might seem so based on who hangs out here. No matter what happens with this site, we are all stuck with each other.

In a way, I think I was lucky in that my first welcome to this place was a distinctly unfriendly one.


CMOT Dibbler

If Babble kicked out everybody who engaged in insensitive or opressive behavior, this place would be completely empty.

Every Babbler, whether they are part of an opressed group or not, has said something vile on this board.

It's a fucking mad house full of self rightous, judgemental gits.

It's also based on a platform that's been dead for more then ten years. What are we still doing here?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

This forum, with all of its faults, is nevertheless the best discussion board I've found, and I've been on a few. Smile


As long as you mean "anti-women" as in misogynist, and not "anti" certain despicable persons who happen to be of the female sex. We aren't anti-semitic if we attack some horribly hawkish Israeli leaders (or just some creep who happened to be Jewish, like Bernard Maddoff) or anti-Black if we attack some warlord in an African country who enlisted child soldiers and committed horrible war crimes. (There IS racism in the latter case, but it lies in the immunity of First-World white leaders such as Bush and Blair who actually have a lot more blood on their hands).

Of course I'm not referring to you - your concerns are real - but to another poster who referred to heinous defenders of misogyny, male privilege and predatory capitalism as "my sisters" (that is verbatim "your" sisters, in reference to me for whom they are anything but).

I get depressed about a lot of stuff, not just misogyny. But this stuff comes up on just about every internet forum in which I've participated, including those that spun off babble in protest about a labour-management situation some years back.

One thing I do like here is the old platform, as it is accessible to people with slow computers or internet access.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm still here after almost eight years - that is evidence of babble's high degree of tolerance. Innocent


ETA: I wish I wasn't so far away, though - I'd love to meet as many babblers as possible. If you're up for a listmeet on the Lower North Shore, though, just bring warm clothes and a sleeping bag and I'll try to look after the rest. Smile


Initially, I was rather shocked by the characterization of Babble as being tolerant of anti-women and/or anti-feminist views because I have never really found that to be the case.  However, upon further reflection, I have realized that I have probably just become desensitized by too many years working in environments hostile to women - engineering, while interesting and rewarding, still generally sucks for women mostly because of the other engineers.  I really do not find it bad here at all because when people are out of line with comments, whether misognystic, racist, homophobic, etc., they are rarely given a pass for those comments.

I strongly agree with lagatta's comments about differentiating between misogynistic attacks on women and condemnation of women whose words, actions, etc. are destructive.  Castigating sexist or otherwise despicable women does not make one any less of a feminist.  I think the opposite is true whereby defending women just because they are women is unhelpful to all of us.  I don't apologize for having high expectations for women with regards to all of us working together for our mutual benefit with regards to fairness, equality, etc. and we should never feel any hesistancy in calling out those women who aim to set us back.  They are our enemy and deserve to be challenged.