Something I Hate

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fancy_punk fancy_punk's picture
Something I Hate

When referring to/promoting a television or radio program that features several or all women panellists, most of whom are noted for having 'strong' personalities, it is completely acceptable for the male anchor to say a sentence that ends 'and the fur really does fly!' This is what I call 'casual sexism.' The anchor may be prima facie unaware of his sexism, as is the majority of the audience may be. It is 'just a thing to say' in a situation like that and 'nothing is meant by it.' The anchor, if questioned, would likely state that he 'had no idea' it was offensive and doesn't think women should be demeaned like that (even if he really does, on some or all levels). He 'didn't mean to insinuate it was a cat-fight' or that it is 'amusing' when women debate issues passionately.

We all see this kind of bullshit every day. It's maddening and I have decided that I'm not going to shut up about it just because I don't know how to make it stop. My wife, who knows her shit, tells me that the best thing a man can do for Feminism is to be a positive role model for other men. And as much as I hate other men, her point is well made. It's time to speak up, and not just contribute, but dominate these kinds of discussions when confronted with the kind of typical ignorant bullshit that I have to put up with all the time. This is my first post. I just joined up after years of frustration and wandering and feeling hopeless about all of this. Things have changed and I don't feel that way anymore. I won't be this personal in future posts; I didn't intend this one to be. It kind of got away from me. First post, y'all. I'll figure this out. 

Issues Pages: 

Welcome to Babble! = )

You do make some interesting points. However, what I'd like to see is some examples of the things you are trying to describe. I assume you mean shows like The View or The Talk?


fancy_punk fancy_punk's picture

No, but it could have been. It was something I heard most recently from an anchor on a CTV affiliate. 

And by the way I absolutely do not wish to offend anyone by posting in the Feminism area, being a man. I'm told by some feminists that I am right to consider myself a feminist; however, I'm still sensitive to the fact that this can be a delicate thing, and that the voices of a few do not speak for everyone. I'm open to this discussion and will listen if anyone is uncomfortable. 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Hi f_p, I agree with your first post--there are loads of examples of casual sexism in the MSM, manifested in countless ways. Certainly the opportunity for a group of women to have an intelligent conversation judged purely on its merit is rare. However, I think shows like The View and to some extent Oprah, receive a kind of contemptuous criticism that has roots in sexism too. I mean, does "The Best Damn Sports Show" or whatever it's called get the same kind of casual disdain? Why is sentimental culture less valued than masculine culture? (See also, chick flicks vs action flicks, etc.)

Oh, and don't worry about posting in the ff, even with a y-chromosome (present!). As long as you enter with a sense of self-reflexivity and a willingness to listen, you're gold. (That and, criminally, we just don't have that many women posters nowadays.)

fancy_punk fancy_punk's picture

I'm really regretting the title of this post now. It's clumsy and immature. I was upset when I wrote it and didn't think it through. Better: "A Problem"


Aww, it's fine.  Welcome to babble!

I agree with you about the "fur will fly" comment.  Strangely enough, I didn't connect that with "catfight" but of course that's exactly what it means!  And applying it to female panelists is definitely sexist.

You had said, " much as I hate other men..."  Why do you hate other men?  Just curious.

fancy_punk fancy_punk's picture

Why do I hate other men? Um...from spending time around them, I guess. 


fancy_punk wrote:

Why do I hate other men? Um...from spending time around them, I guess. 


I find the word 'hate' is thrown around alot at times, perhaps used too often even. So when you say you hate other men,

do you mean that you ,"...  dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest" them?

Are you sure you just don't mean you dislike them?

fancy_punk fancy_punk's picture

No, hate is right. I intensely and passionately dislike and even detest the fact that I am embarrassed and ashamed to expose my son to mainstream constructs of masculinity; I have extreme hostility towards this kind of casual and taken-for-granted antipathy towards women, the abject 'fact' of male superiority, the constant objectifciation of women and reduction of smart, intelligent people to sexual slaves and the ostrasization of any woman that dares to ressist or object to this treatment. When a man says that feminists 'just need a good fuck' I hate him; I feel extreme hostility towards him and it is safe to say that I have an 'extreme aversion' towards him and in my younger days I would surely have found a way to insult him as viciously as he had just insulted me, and things that I believe in. I hate that my son is expected to believe that, in essense, all women are actually just dirty little sluts who want a big strong man to dominate them and that to in choosing something else he will be made to suffer for this; we have to teach him to be strong enough to endure the assault on his masculinity for, essentially, not being an asshole. I hate that, yeah. So okay, if you want me to be more clear: I don't hate 'men.' I know a few good men. A few, once in a while. I hate the patriachry. And you know what? That's everwhere, even in me. And I seriously hate that more than anything else. I've been exposed to and affected by this bullshit. And that's what it is: a whole bunch of bullshit lies meant to elevate one group of people up over and at the expense of another. So yeah -- I fucking hate that. Is hate used too often? It sure as fuck is. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't have its place. When I say 'I hate men,' I mean it. Hate. It's an ugly word for something ugly, and I only use it when it's deserved. Like for this. 


Maysie Maysie's picture

This quote was in my Facebook newsfeed today, a friend of mine quoting bell hooks for International Women's Day. I thought it was appropriate for this thread, and for you, fancy punk.

bell hooks wrote:

Visionary feminism is a wise and loving politics. ... The soul of feminist politics is the commitment to ending patriarchal domination of women and men, girls and boys. Love cannot exist in any relationship that is based on domination and coercion. Males cannot love themselves in patriarchal culture if their very self-definition relies on submission to patriarchal rules. When men embrace feminist thinking and practice, which emphasizes the value of mutual growth and self-actualization in all relationships, their emotional well-being will be enhanced. A genuine feminist politics always brings us from bondage to freedom, from lovelessness to loving.

The quote is from the book Feminism is for Everybody by bell hooks, 2000, South End Press

fancy_punk fancy_punk's picture

That's beautifully said. Love it. 


@fancy punk.  

i know how you feel, except for me i don't feel hate.  When i see a guy like the one you just described i think he probably learned that shit from his dad and the men he was surrounded by and grew up in an environment that didn't offer any alternatives.  like most forms of indoctrination, once you start down that path it's likely you will continue, the same way people cling to religion, racism etc.

i hate the way they act, for sure.  but i assume the same person growing up under different conditions would turn out differently.  The important thing is i guess that you're providing a good role model for your kids so they don't grow up to be assholes like the people you're describing.