what is a sex worker ?

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remind remind's picture

It is  pertinent in my view because people want to discuss it as if it is already  "job", and regular "work" like any other "work" is "work", as if there is a "worker" there is "work". More than that, some want it decriminalized,  with no regulations, while others legalized with job industry designation.

In order for something to  be destigmatized, legitimized, or abolished, if seen to be not worth the effort. Then all those cards should be on the table being looked at.

We need to know what that "work" is and indeed if it is work, or can be work.

Where it fits, how it applys to similar work, is all part of the examination process to see; where/if it fits into our agreed to social contract, how it could fit better and what it takes to make it fit.

 

We can't have legally accepted work, that in reality compells people to give their lives into the service of another, because there is no regulations, that everyone else has to follow in order to assure personal autionomy is met...in accordance with our Charter of Rights.

 

There are no blank slate consumer rights.

 

People can't kill bears for their gall bladders,  because people want to buy them for their health benefits.

 

Do we as a society think  some have a right to risk other people's lives, no matter how willing they are, so that they can have an ejaculatory response in public and private, without regulations?

Is a bear worth more than some human's lives?

 

Officially granting some greater civil liberties than others is wrong headed. And there is no job or gender equity in that direction.

 

Things can't stay the way they are, people are suffering, and dying, over ejaculatory responses, for god's sakes, solutions need to be found. Yesterday.

remind remind's picture

Now that was quite the gender polarizing personal experience clarification, with barbed oblique aspersions too, good editorial job. :D

I stand corrected!

 

Anecdotal info is just that though, subjective to our human biases and indoctrinations.

 

As a nurse, I have met many a stupid Dr, and even stupider patients and family members, willing to jeapordize other lives, for their whims, in sometimes a criminal way.

For example, while I was nursing in one hospital, a mother had to be locked in with her daugter who had TB, because she refused to gown up, or refrain from visiting. She went in, undressed for quaratine, and then let her daughter stroll about the floor,  because quaratine was unfair to her daughter. 

We were furious with the stupidity of it all. And that we had to force her now to stay at the hospital for the good of society at large. That has slanted me a bit against the "everything is our right to do if we want",  civil liberty crowd, I must admit.

...usually they believe they should get their civil rights liberties, at the expense of those not in their class elite.

 

So...really, our personal experiences are not a measure of much , unless  they can be placed in  verifiable context, such as laws on human rights, labour codes, and public safety regulations, that we all know about, or should, and  exist within.

 

 

skdadl

remind wrote:

Now that was quite the gender polarizing personal experience clarification, with barbed oblique aspersions too, good editorial job. :D

 

 

I beg your pardon? The nurse was perfectly capable of being stupid, even if he was male, and the doctor was perfectly capable of being both smart and angry, even if she was female.

 

Furthermore, what I wrote was true and is on record in several places. Why you think you need to riff sarcastically on everything I write I will never understand.

martin dufresne

As one who raised that issue of compulsory safety measures associated with a pandemic (post #90), I would like to look into that case. Could you provide links to some of those places, skdadl?

Infosaturated

remind wrote:

It is  pertinent in my view because people want to discuss it as if it is already  "job", and regular "work" like any other "work" is "work", as if there is a "worker" there is "work". More than that, some want it decriminalized,  with no regulations, while others legalized with job industry designation.

 

...

Officially granting some greater civil liberties than others is wrong headed. And there is no job or gender equity in that direction.

Hmm, okay, I see your point.  It would be interesting to figure out how this would fit into rights against sexual harassment.

pogge

remind wrote:

Now that was quite the gender polarizing personal experience clarification

Interesting assumptions. When I got clobbered by an SUV a couple of years back and had an extended stay at Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto, my favorite of the people whose acquaintance I made there was the day nurse in Ortho. His first name is Matthew. My second favorite was the attending physician whose first name is Lorraine (I still have her business card). And an honorable mention goes to the nurse I remember best from ICU (though admittedly memories of the first couple of days there are fuzzy). His name is Ron.

 

skdadl

Some of which places, Martin? Links? To a private nursing home and the TGH?  I'm sure the latter is online, but that's not how I knew them. Am I going to give you a full confessional about our miserable experience with a private nursing home as the epidemic descended? No, Martin. I am not. That's private, and always will be.

 

I can tell you that it happened only two days before the major hospitals began to go on restricted access of varying kinds (there are a lot of hospitals in Toronto, and things varied) and public nursing homes began to shut down for the duration, which meant at least three months for the ones I knew.

 

And I don't have to testify myself to the doctor's anger. It's there in huge capital letters written diagonally across an admission form. It's pretty clear that the doctor knew how dangerous frivolous admissions had become at that point, and s/he engraved that message hard on the form s/he sent back. As I say, I never met her/him. I certainly knew the bricklefritzin' clueless nurse.

Michelle

remind wrote:

Now that was quite the gender polarizing personal experience clarification, with barbed oblique aspersions too, good editorial job. :D

I stand corrected!

remind, I'm not sure why you keep posting comments like this aimed at skdadl, but it would be great if you could stop doing so.  I've noticed this a few times now, here and in other threads.

Michelle

Closing for length.

susan davis

martin dufresne wrote:

Public health departments are at least accountable to elected officials. I see no justification for excepting from vital controls the patrons of a self-alleged "industry" that wishes to be as profitable as possible, damn the human lives being threatened. There ought to be some limits to "pragmatism" as a principle.

For instance,  I recently attended an awareness-raising workshop at Université du Québec à Montréal, given by the STELLA organization, the main proponent in Quebec of the full decriminalization hard line. Whan a woman asked the facilitator (a sex industry operative) "What if I tell the escort agency I won't do blow jobs without a condom?", her answer was a curt "You won't get many referrals."

This from an organization that gets public funding in hundreds of thousands of dollars to convey HIV prevention/safer sex messages...

i know stella very well and i believe you are quoting them out of context. stella, as all organizations i am in contact with- are alarmed at how un safe sex practices are becomig the norm. fear of being murdered on the street has driven workers to seek employement at any cost indoors.

some workers cannot operate as an independent from home(children-husband) and need places to work. but because of ever increasing enforcement, numbers of jobs indoors are limited and so highly competed for. it takes power from workers and puts it in the hands of business owners. workers are not given the facts about safe sex and unprotected contact and only know that workers offering such services are making more money.

thus our occupational health and safety training in order to give workers the facts.

in new zealand, condom use is law- customers asking for these services are reported by workers and fined $2000. people will now go crazy stating it will increase the consumers seeking services from youth on the street and i agree that is unacceptable.

but if we were to decriminalze adult consentual sex work we would free up maney and time/resources/man power for police departments to really go after these guys, predators....

a specialized section could emerge from what was formerly known as vice division and be specifically related to rescuing youth or people exploited in the sex industry.

clear policies and procedures for fair treatment of victims of exploitation could be implemented as opposed to the current throw everyone on the floor, point guns at them and arrest every one approach. supports could be provided, plain clothes on officers so as not to intimidate, guns concealed so as not to intimidate. gentle entry into suspect premises rather that the standard kicking down of doors....

stella is run by sex workers, they deserve to be funded just as any other organization doing this work. they have done amazing things pioneering the sex worker rights movement in canada and have inspired us all.

 

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